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Just Chamber posted:^ well diversity in guests is different altogether. yeah that seems backwards and is another problem: identifiable groups aren't monoliths. problematic to me is not problematic to thee even if we happen to both share an identity. A good consultant would be aware of this, but no matter how good a consultant is you won't be able to please everyone. But, they could do more, I think. And I think throwing some money and energy to people who know their poo poo could only help things. They should probably just pay Austin Walker for some of his time since they're leaning so hard on FATT anyway, haha.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:19
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I don't think the brothers and Austin get along very well at this point. Tons of FATT contributors openly dislike the McElroys, and Travis's. dipshit MaxFunDrive stunt last year can't have helped.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:24
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DoctorWhat posted:I don't think the brothers and Austin get along very well at this point. Tons of FATT contributors openly dislike the McElroys, and Travis's. dipshit MaxFunDrive stunt last year can't have helped. Yeah that was more a joke about them using The Quiet Year to do world gen like I think, Marielda?
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Apr 29, 2021 19:26
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Just Chamber posted:^ well diversity in guests is different altogether. This is like the horseshoe theory version of "if there's no reason for a character to be gay then why mention it at all? stop shoving it in my face!"
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Apr 29, 2021 19:28
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Just Chamber posted:Apparently there's beef with the firbolg because he's apparently influenced by native Americans? I never really got that at all. Doesn't that sort of cover any creature at one with nature so all druids etc would need a native consultant? Also there was a disabled character and that was handled poorly? I've seen some stuff complaining about a) Rainier, usually by people who didn't listen to the show (there was a thing going around on Twitter midway through Graduation that was like "Travis just introduced this character in a wheelchair as tokenism, she never shows up after that episode!" when Rainier is one of the most frequently appearing NPCs in the season) and b) the depiction of the firbolg tribe as not being down with storing food for winter being colonialist. Also some stuff about the centaurs they have to get the apple from midway through having this kind of outdated tradition/issue they need an outside party to solve? The firbolg thing seems like a stretch, honestly. It's kind of a silly plot beat that they kicked the firbolg out for storing food instead of being a pure hunter-gatherer, but it feels more like a consequence of, "why was my character, a hero, exiled by his tribe without actually doing anything bad to deserve it" than a subtextual sneer at native cultures. I guess I could see an argument for why the firbolg tribe as a people who don't have names, never lie, and are flummoxed by the concept of commerce is essentially a dualistic imagining of a people who are everything modern society isn't, which is kind of noble savage/orientalist territory, but it's so abstract from any specifics and deep enough in the subtext that I feel like it's not really an obviously offensive mistake so much as an unexamined storytelling trope. The centaurs needing adventurers to solve their problem thing is fairly hackneyed storytelling but probably not guilty of colonialist tropes beyond what D&D's core assumptions of "heroes travel around to various communities and fix their long-standing issues in a week" involve. The centaurs also aren't depicted as idiots: the spirit they worship that demands the golden apples is a real entity they genuinely have to appease, and the only reason their tradition is going wrong this year is because Grey is sabotaging it.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:29
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Horseshoe theory isn’t real, it’s just a fancy way to present a false dichotomy and silence dissent.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:30
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Just Chamber posted:From reddit If they start listening to "fans" like that they will only encourage them to find even more dumb things to complain about. People like that are the worst.
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Apr 29, 2021 19:45
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Lots of the "problematic" criticisms probably wouldn't have been given the time of the day if the general reception to Graduation wasn't so negative. I think the general reception wouldn't have been so bad if Travis had approached the campaign like "Hey, I'm new to this and I'm going to try stuff out. Things may work, things may not." Instead, going from pretty much day one, he started hosting panels where he was either giving bad advice or spitting out bad advice that he himself never followed. It all kind of felt... "entitled" to the TAZ legacy for lack of a better word, and people weren't sure if it was going to be salvageable for the duration of its run.
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Apr 29, 2021 20:03
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Well obviously makes money and is popular = is good and has good things to say, c’mon get with the times!!!!
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Apr 29, 2021 20:18
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"Hey we want you on our show to talk about d&d; will you?" "Yes, please." The original sin.
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Apr 29, 2021 20:21
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Also to give Travis SOME credit (let's be honest he basically gets zero itt), I can imagine Griffin desperately needed a break and for all we know Justin and Clint didnt want anything to do with being the DM in a big campaign (as I think evidenced by the fact that we're going straight back to Griffin as DM for the next TAZ) yet they all wanted TAZ to continue, so Travis took on a big responsibility and pressure when perhaps he just wasn't ready. I would genuinely be interested in a Travis campaign where he's learnt from his mistakes cause he 100% tried to bite off more than he could chew for someone with very little experience. And yes Griffin was new to this but lest we forget this is Griffin "30 Under 30 media luminary" McElroy.
Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Apr 29, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 20:49
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Justin explicitly said he won't DM a big campaign this episode and big ups to Travis for taking on that burden
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Apr 29, 2021 20:59
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Just Chamber posted:they all wanted TAZ to continue They all had to continue TAZ, it’s one of their two tentpoles.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:06
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Pollyanna posted:They all had to continue TAZ, it’s one of their two tentpoles. Lol I did nearly add in parenthesis "and still wanted that sweet money train to keep on rolling".
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Apr 29, 2021 21:17
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wizzardstaff posted:This is like the horseshoe theory version of "if there's no reason for a character to be gay then why mention it at all? stop shoving it in my face!" I was a little disappointed that Fitzroy bring asexual but Rainer having a crush on him never got resolved.
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Apr 29, 2021 21:27
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Zero One posted:I was a little disappointed that Fitzroy bring asexual but Rainer having a crush on him never got resolved. Crushes never being resolved sounds like 90% of my experience (but yes I do get what you mean)
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Apr 29, 2021 21:32
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Yeah, and to be on record, while I thought the first 15 or so episodes were really dull, I think he managed to make it something entertaining in the latter half.
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Apr 29, 2021 23:01
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hot take: that ttazz was good and it seems like they're extremely aware of the problems they had, not in denial about them, which i think is a positive sign for the next season honestly I can totally understand how much that sucks. you make something people don't like then you're trapped in a lose/lose of "just keep doing it" versus "end abruptly," which the people who DO like your show will hate. DoctorWhat posted:I don't think the brothers and Austin get along very well at this point. Tons of FATT contributors openly dislike the McElroys, and Travis's. dipshit MaxFunDrive stunt last year can't have helped. you can tell they don't get along by the part of this episode where they uhh... praised Marielda and said everyone should go listen to friends at the table? extremely brutal stuff eke out fucked around with this message at 23:13 on Apr 29, 2021 |
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Apr 29, 2021 23:10
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Austin knows better than to talk poo poo about the mcelroys directly but he’s definitely subtweeted about them.
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Apr 29, 2021 23:28
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eke out posted:you can tell they don't get along by the part of this episode where they uhh... praised Marielda and said everyone should go listen to friends at the table? extremely brutal stuff Griffin's obviously a huge fan and has said so many times but I don't think it's reciprocated, and if it ever was I can't imagine Walker's chomping at the bit to collaborate again after last year's stunt.
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Apr 29, 2021 23:46
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DoctorWhat posted:Griffin's obviously a huge fan and has said so many times but I don't think it's reciprocated, and if it ever was I can't imagine Walker's chomping at the bit to collaborate again after last year's stunt. What happened last year? I vaguely recall Travis advertising something on a stream with Austin etc that they didnt know about before or something like that.
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Apr 29, 2021 23:51
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they should stop wasting their time trying to stay in the good graces of all these insanely difficult people on Twitter
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Apr 29, 2021 23:51
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the average contributor to friends at the table would actively lose followers on twitter if they said anything positive about the mcelroys lol
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Apr 29, 2021 23:52
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Just Chamber posted:What happened last year? I vaguely recall Travis advertising something on a stream with Austin etc that they didnt know about before or something like that. Travis did a DM workshop with Austin and other TTRPG figures. However, he did not disclose to those figures that the stream was part of the MaxFun Drive and a commercial product/advertising.
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Apr 29, 2021 23:53
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AndrewP posted:they should stop wasting their time trying to stay in the good graces of all these insanely difficult people on Twitter It's really frustrating because I'm sure they want feedback. There's just no fuckin control over that spigot.
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Apr 30, 2021 00:01
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I don’t really feel a burning need to stick up for these guys even though I enjoy their content, it seems like a lot of their fans are too clingy and parasocially weird and I don’t wanna be like that. But there’s defintely a good amount of decent size twitter comedian types who were just rubbing their hands together because those cringe Mcelroys were finally getting what for after the among us/personal loan double whammy, and that’s such a loving annoying lovely attitude it almost got me to start some dumb twitter fights Like Travis gets on my nerves sometimes but people get really weird about mocking him in a way that’s like, far more awful than anything he actually does
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Apr 30, 2021 00:16
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Empty Sandwich posted:a friend of mine spent some time in a monastery. (he was fleeing criminal charges, but eventually returned and got sentenced to house arrest, except at the monastery. monastery arrest.) I 100% get what you’re saying, and I think you’re right and I agree, but also this isn’t the best analogy. It veers into questions of incrementalism and the ethics of lesser evils and so forth. PETA’s argument in this case is that the cultivating and selling of eggs and keeping of chickens as livestock is wrong full-stop. You (and I) may disagree with that perspective, but PETA’s whole philosophy isn’t that people need to treat their livestock better or with more respect—it’s that people need to stop having livestock. They go after free-range and “animal friendly” operations specifically because they consider them to be philosophically opposed to their aims, and “part of the problem” in a way. You and I may see a situation where people who were previously buying more ethically-produced eggs have now been forced to shop for factory farm products, but PETA sees philosophical consistency. Getting some people to switch to a “lesser of two evils” doesn’t actually address the underlying systemic issues. (This also starts to veer into veterinary medicine and animal biology questions, and questions about whether it’s even ethical to breed a battery hen whose body has to produce and expel a giant egg every single day in the first place, regardless of how you treat it, etc. And none of this is a defense of PETA btw, they’re a horrible, predatory, scam/cult of an organization run by a sex pest and also I work in molecular bio and do animal research as part of my job and regularly eat meat and animal products, but try to do so in the most ethical way) It’s kind of like the arguments that people here in D&D get into about electric cars vs getting people to stop using cars altogether and build communities more geared around walking and public transit. Or about whether Tesla/its fans are more of a net positive for pushing tech and culture forward on fighting climate change or net negative for empowering a hypercapitalist lolbertatian sociopath whose vision of progress looks remarkably like the worst aspects of the status quo. Or about voting for Joe Biden. Just Chamber posted:Lol I did nearly add in parenthesis "and still wanted that sweet money train to keep on rolling". You make it sound like it isn’t literally their job and the way that they finance their entire lives.
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Apr 30, 2021 00:40
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Got the first time ever Nintendo has a character creator good enough for Monster Factory https://twitter.com/The_Lucbomber/s...ingawful.com%2F
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Apr 30, 2021 01:10
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Ok Comboomer posted:I 100% get what you’re saying, and I think you’re right and I agree, but also this isn’t the best analogy. It veers into questions of incrementalism and the ethics of lesser evils and so forth. this analogy is real dumb because it treats 'incrementalism' as a broadstrokes concept when 'these literal monks are basically just subsistence farming with a small side business to keep the lights on, that's really a lot different than factory farm poo poo and maybe one needs to be focused on more' and 'well we can't close the concentration camps on the border but we did make sure the guards tell the kids they're valid so that's something' are entirely different concepts. That's kinda the exact thing OP was talking about with Twitter (and social media in general) loving up, the concept of scale gets blown out and suddenly 'made a kinda lovely joke five years ago' and 'literally was at a white power rally' get mushed together into 'well we all agree you shouldn't do either so these are the same thing right?' And while people being annoying online suck on their own, the greater problem is it allows the actual bad people to skate by in the general muddy waters.
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Apr 30, 2021 02:57
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sexpig by night posted:this analogy is real dumb because it treats 'incrementalism' as a broadstrokes concept when 'these literal monks are basically just subsistence farming with a small side business to keep the lights on, that's really a lot different than factory farm poo poo and maybe one needs to be focused on more' and 'well we can't close the concentration camps on the border but we did make sure the guards tell the kids they're valid so that's something' are entirely different concepts. That's kinda the exact thing OP was talking about with Twitter (and social media in general) loving up, the concept of scale gets blown out and suddenly 'made a kinda lovely joke five years ago' and 'literally was at a white power rally' get mushed together into 'well we all agree you shouldn't do either so these are the same thing right?' And while people being annoying online suck on their own, the greater problem is it allows the actual bad people to skate by in the general muddy waters. I dunno that we actually disagree Sexpig, but sure, whatever you say.
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Apr 30, 2021 03:13
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I just watched/listened to BDG's Stranger Sings for the first time. It's insane that I missed this because it's incredible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep2d2WzdmVI&t=2320s Also, I really appreciate being able to see the re-use of his educational rap character in the Pokerap.
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Apr 30, 2021 06:30
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PETA is a CIA front designed to turn people against the idea of animals rights
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Apr 30, 2021 06:47
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some plague rats posted:PETA is a CIA front designed to turn people against the idea of animals rights I don’t make a habit of going in for conspiracy theories but this is one I could believe
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Apr 30, 2021 07:07
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Colonel Whitey posted:I don’t make a habit of going in for conspiracy theories but this is one I could believe
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Apr 30, 2021 07:07
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PETA checks a lot of "run by CIA" boxes, that's for drat sure.
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Apr 30, 2021 07:10
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Colonel Whitey posted:I don’t make a habit of going in for conspiracy theories but this is one I could believe I started out saying it as a joke but at this point I absolutely believe it
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Apr 30, 2021 07:27
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Pladdicus posted:It's almost a shame Friends At The Table is so good because it's very easy to compare any other work to it and compile a list of sins. We know what good roleplaying podcasts CAN be in terms of doing things the right way it's just a shame this is the mechanism people think is the way to get it. I find it absolutely unlistenable (because unlike the best of TAZ or Rude Tales, its the podcast made mostly for the enjoyment of the players and not the audience, impossible to follow in background) but thats probably me
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Apr 30, 2021 09:02
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Sankara posted:PETA checks a lot of "run by CIA" boxes, that's for drat sure. yea I'm not saying every person with a title in front of their name there is an active CIA employee but I do mostly-unironically believe the founding members and people in charge are on some COINTELPRO poo poo to weaken the environmental movement's reputation. Like, I know the less exciting answer is 'they're attention seeking idiots who don't really care about the cause but see it as a trendy thing to support to show they're good people' and that's probably the Occam's Razor answer but it is weird how almost every time environmental groups do major pushes there's some state PETA group within a day going 'uh actually owning a cat is...rape? It's rape, yea, and if you have a cat we hope you...die? Yea that's the ticket, we're going to kill you for having a cat.'
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Apr 30, 2021 13:41
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sexpig by night posted:yea I'm not saying every person with a title in front of their name there is an active CIA employee but I do mostly-unironically believe the founding members and people in charge are on some COINTELPRO poo poo to weaken the environmental movement's reputation. Like, I know the less exciting answer is 'they're attention seeking idiots who don't really care about the cause but see it as a trendy thing to support to show they're good people' and that's probably the Occam's Razor answer but it is weird how almost every time environmental groups do major pushes there's some state PETA group within a day going 'uh actually owning a cat is...rape? It's rape, yea, and if you have a cat we hope you...die? Yea that's the ticket, we're going to kill you for having a cat.' And people have largely caught on to PETA, so now it's Extinction Rebellion's turn! Oh people have caught on already? oh
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Apr 30, 2021 13:53
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I would argue that "you're right and we're on the same side, but here's a long account of how you're actually wrong" is high Twitter energy, but the tone was too thoughtful. you're right in that they're ideologues, but I suggest comparing my stance with... I don't know, something about Karl and Ilse Koch. meanwhile... Farm Wisdom? sending a horse to college? keeping a glass shark captive in a swimming pool? I bet that according to PETA, these brothers are canceled
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