|
wait the season finale is already tomorrow? it's only been what, 8 eps so far? boooo
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 09:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 16:17 |
|
|
I'm glad this thread is level-headed because I'm finding it hard to spend time on the subreddit and in Invincible Facebook groups right now because people are taking their frustration with Amber and spinning it off into blatant misogyny and even racism. She did say she knew something, but she didn't know he was specifically invincible (just one of many superheroes) and she only knew the last two weeks of a 5m relationship. Everyone seems to be taking that as "she knew he was invincible all along and has been gaslighting/manipulating Mark" and then spinning off into slurs and incel rants. If tomorrow keeps up the quality from last week's episode this is going to be a loving sick season of TV.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 10:22
|
|
|
It is kind of ironic that making Amber an actual character gives people that little hand hold to express their hate and misogyny. In the comic Amber was so bland and background that she was all but forgettable, and their relationship was mostly annoying just because it was time taken away from literally anything happening. Assuming I'm not remembering wrong.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 10:55
|
|
|
Gyges posted:It is kind of ironic that making Amber an actual character gives people that little hand hold to express their hate and misogyny. In the comic Amber was so bland and background that she was all but forgettable, and their relationship was mostly annoying just because it was time taken away from literally anything happening. Assuming I'm not remembering wrong. you are not
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 12:57
|
|
|
The comic is what, 80% relationship drama though. I've not finished it yet but it's sort of getting a bit boring. Lol at eve becoming thicc
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 13:48
|
|
|
Gyges posted:It is kind of ironic that making Amber an actual character gives people that little hand hold to express their hate and misogyny. In the comic Amber was so bland and background that she was all but forgettable, and their relationship was mostly annoying just because it was time taken away from literally anything happening. Assuming I'm not remembering wrong.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 14:33
|
|
|
Gyges posted:It is kind of ironic that making Amber an actual character gives people that little hand hold to express their hate and misogyny. In the comic Amber was so bland and background that she was all but forgettable, and their relationship was mostly annoying just because it was time taken away from literally anything happening. Assuming I'm not remembering wrong. Somebody else here said earlier that Invincible is basically Robert Kirkman's take on every superhero trope ever and Mark's time in high school and college is his take on Peter Parker/ teenage heroes in general. And in Kirman's eyes, neglecting your girlfriend and lying about the reasons probably won't endear you to her, especially not if you only come clean in a last ditch effort to save your relationship. e X fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Apr 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 15:09
|
|
|
Jackard posted:Yeah almost every character is worse in the comic. Both Amber and his mom are props. William is an rear end in a top hat. Damien is a cheap joke. Etc Also no multiple issue rant about nicknames
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 15:12
|
|
|
I said it earlier in the thread but there is definitely a way different approach to alter-egos these days. Perhaps not in printed media, since they are still ambling along with status quos that have existed for decades, but when it comes to new films or TV adaptations there seems to be this new belief that lying to your friends and family just causes more problems than it solves when a reveal happens. Or you get to cover more interesting angles by just having a reveal early on, such as Lois Lane knowing Clark Kent is Superman right from his inception in the DCEU, or Peter spilling the beans to Gwen after their first argument about his behaviour in Amazing Spider-Man. Then again, Invincible was first on the scene in 2003? I think by that time in the Ultimate universe Peter had come out to Mary-Jane (or it happened not too long into Invincible starting) and by the time of Cataclysm everyone important in Peter's life knew he was Spider-Man and were able to keep it contained (to the point of Aunt May allowing Bobby Drake and Johnny Storm to live with them knowing full well their other lives). I dunno, I liked the approach here because Eve pointed it out very early that Mark would have to decide soon how to handle it or there would be consequences. Having only gotten through the 3rd or 4th TPB so far Amber has barely been present in the comic so her becoming an actual person in the show is a huge improvement. Also this is on a different track but Nolan is quite different in the comics, he is a lot more even-tempered and very much the typical dad in the comics and even when he is demolishing the Guardians he doesn't seem to carry any menace. It is quite the change and since I've read past where the finale is likely going to go tonight I am now really excited to see how the events are going to go down just on account of how different the two Nolans are. Exciting stuff!
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 16:45
|
|
|
Aces High posted:Also this is on a different track but Nolan is quite different in the comics, he is a lot more even-tempered and very much the typical dad in the comics and even when he is demolishing the Guardians he doesn't seem to carry any menace. It is quite the change and since I've read past where the finale is likely going to go tonight I am now really excited to see how the events are going to go down just on account of how different the two Nolans are. Exciting stuff! As someone earlier noted, the comic goes straight from the guardians being suddenly murdered, to their funeral, to the current situation. The guardians getting murdered basically came out of nowhere, and since it almost immediately escalated to this climax there wasn't much time for Nolan to be menacing or for much 'what are his real motives??' theorizing. I think the way the show has handled it is almost entirely for the better, besides maybe the addition of the costume stuff. It was probably also necessary to have the guardians killed in the first episode to hook people in. If this show went 6 episodes before that swerve then I'm guessing many people wouldn't have stuck around that long.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 17:10
|
|
|
I'm pretty excited for the finale.  
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 17:57
|
|
|
I have a friend who (having not read the comics) was very insistent that they would have preferred the guardians stuff to have been off screen or more vague. Not because of squeamishness per se, but they think gradually revealing the gore and having omni man tear apart the Immortal right in front of Mark as a big moment would have been hugely impactful in a way it wasn't since we've been through so much gore already. In the comics it's also worth noting that I don't believe we've seen Mark or Nolan get so much as a nosebleed yet; it keeps cards hidden for a lot longer and acts like it's regular degular superhero stuff for quite a while. I don't think that would work as an adaptation and they needed the shock to gain an audience and buzz. But is it better storytelling? Also I talked about Amber stuff earlier and I wanna be clear that my issue is with the writing for her in e6: in retrospect she knew already so the specific reaction seems like just bad writing. But in terms of her actual point? Yeah, mark was treating her like garbo.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 18:24
|
|
|
I feel the implication of her reaction to Mark was just an immature display of someone who had finally had enough and didn't give a poo poo anymore about his reasons and excuses. I feel like when she and Eve were at the shelter and Eve got notified of what happened to Mark but not her she clued in that he was probably a super. She gave him a chance with restarting the relationship, probably hoping that he would come clean so she would feel trusted and respected but he still kept giving flimsy excuses and then him pulling the stunt he did on the campus without even a word of "I will go get help, stay hidden" was what finally did it. It does feel a little like the creative team wanted to have their cake and eat it too with him finally coming clean and her shutting him down but it wasn't the worst thing
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 18:59
|
|
|
I like that being a superhero doesn't magically forgive all sins, like treating someone like dirt and not giving them the opportunity to work with you on your job.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 19:01
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/InvincibleHQ/status/1387830120950505475?s=20
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 19:09
|
|
|
Great news. 
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
Hell yeah
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 19:25
|
|
|
Azhais posted:So far they've mostly switched ordering around so the omni man reveal could be the finale. Basically none of the stuff that happened in the last episode (no orbital lasers, no attack by rob zombies, no teleporting kaiju around) was in the comics because there wasn't any drama and investigation around the guardian's deaths. They died, there was a funeral, the twins dug up immortal the same day, he woke up and went after Nolan. The immortal/omni fight occurred in the middle of town with reporters, civilians, and invincible watching so the whole "why did you kill them" bit was broadcast to everyone. This all happened by like issue 8. The show actually sounds like an improvement on the comic. Having there be suspicion on Nathan from the start ads a lot more tension that otherwise it being a mystery. Also having Demon Detective be actually good at his job is a better choice.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 19:33
|
|
|
Aces High posted:I feel the implication of her reaction to Mark was just an immature display of someone who had finally had enough and didn't give a poo poo anymore about his reasons and excuses. I feel like when she and Eve were at the shelter and Eve got notified of what happened to Mark but not her she clued in that he was probably a super. She gave him a chance with restarting the relationship, probably hoping that he would come clean so she would feel trusted and respected but he still kept giving flimsy excuses and then him pulling the stunt he did on the campus without even a word of "I will go get help, stay hidden" was what finally did it. Weirdly I did not hate the writing either. Like yourself, I figure it was just moment after moment of his deception just finally getting to her. Yeah, maybe she could have been more mature but she's a freakin teenager. I remember seeing relationships implode because somebody wore the wrong colour one time or something equally ludicrous. I know that if I was in her shoes I would have to wonder how dumb Mark thought I was to NOT guess he was Invincible and thus, how his goofy attempts at subterfuge made it even more insulting. Weird to hear that people are going insane about the character but I guess that is how people go. I know people give SA grief for being goons but at least they aren't redditors/4chan/youtube.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:The show actually sounds like an improvement on the comic. Having there be suspicion on Nathan from the start ads a lot more tension that otherwise it being a mystery. Also having Demon Detective be actually good at his job is a better choice. I'm a big fan of the comics and I'd agree with that. It's not that the comic is bad it's a combo of some effects. First, plot pacing in a comic is going to be driven by the monthly(ish) release schedule, and a lot of the story is still being worked out as issues go to print. This is not the case with a eight episode series. Second, Kirkman and the other creators working on the show have the hindsight of knowing what did and didn't work in the comic, as well as the benefit that being 20 years older brings. The comic itself ran for like 15 years and you can see the storytelling change over that time in the book . Demon Detective is literally a throw away joke, he's dressed exactly like Rorshach from Watchmen and you only see him from behind in a few panels so it's a visual gag that he's got this hideous demon face instead of a mask. Him solving the crime and getting sent to hell by Cecil is all invented by the show. Like, Demon Detective is in maybe 10 panels in the whole series, so it's not so much a change as an entirely new character. But yeah, I like all the character changes they've made so far. I was surprised that they cast an actor as big as Mahershala Ali as Titan given his minor role in the comics, but they've also greatly expanded on him, just in the one episode he was featured in. It's good because even though I've read the comic a few times, I still feel like the show can surprise me, which is the best you can expect out of an adaptation.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
Aces High posted:It does feel a little like the creative team wanted to have their cake and eat it too with him finally coming clean and her shutting him down but it wasn't the worst thing It's basically this. Maybe it boils down to the 'why can't people recognize superman when he puts glasses on' but if Amber knew he was a supe and saw Invincible show up right when Mark vanished it feels like she's absolutely been written as smart enough to put that poo poo together on the spot. The confrontation shoulda been different, but I guess they wanted e7 to be the climax of bunch of arcs for the wow factor?. Also for the record, https://twitter.com/InvincibleCast/status/1386845071992102912
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 20:49
|
|
|
Hah! I haven't thought of it since the first few episodes, but I did wonder if she had some sort of gender-fluidity going on based on that symbol. I also heard her name as Adam Eve rather than Atom Eve, which didn't help.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 21:36
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:The show actually sounds like an improvement on the comic. Having there be suspicion on Nathan from the start ads a lot more tension that otherwise it being a mystery. Also having Demon Detective be actually good at his job is a better choice. I go back and forth on this. So, I was never particularly keen on the comic, and the expansion of the material has definitely done a lot for the supporting cast, but when I went back and compared the early issues to the show... the comic feels a lot better paced. It gets worse as it goes, I think, but at least early on it's tight, breezy, and has a very keen sense of what it wants to focus on and what it can afford to background. The show can't flesh out the characters and remain that tight, obviously, but a lot of the time it feels to me like they've stretched things twice as far as they needed to. The Nolan/Guardians thing is good example of this- as mentioned, in the comic it has almost no lead up and ramps very quickly into the conclusion (for reference, the Guardians die in issue #7, and "We need to talk" is the last line of issue #10). Could you flesh that out to an entire arc, with investigations and suspicion and mystery? Absolutely. Could you stretch it to six hours of television? Yyyeah, nah, for me, at least, it feels flabby and unfocused. It might be exacerbated by how stiff some of the animation is, especially in the slow parts. I think I'd be a lot more content to hang out and chill in some of these scenes if it felt better to watch. I'm still having fun with the show, don't get me wrong, but I'm just not certain that this is as good an adaptation as it could have been. KOGAHAZAN!! fucked around with this message at 13:03 on Apr 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 21:47
|
|
|
Eve's logo is definitely a downgrade The third ring + showing complete orbits instead of having the female symbol be solid really sells the "atom" aspect better
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 21:47
|
|
|
Kirkman is generally pretty good at coming up with superhero names and powersets which is kind of funny because I hate "Invincible" Rexplode, Dupli-kate, Atom Eve, all top tier names.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 22:15
|
|
|
I can’t help but wonder if Damien Darkblood’s name was a subtle reference to Damien Darklord, a major character in Savage Dragon, Kirkmann’s favorite comic.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 22:39
|
|
|
Mr Interweb posted:wait the season finale is already tomorrow? it's only been what, 8 eps so far? boooo Lol I really thought 7 was the finale, I binged it all this week after checking wikipedia and which listed 7 episodes, and with the massive battle to take down Nolan, the reveal to all about his secret, him finally just acting like a bad guy etc, I figured the the ending was a cliffhanger for season 2 where we know the first minute will have him confessing to Mark. So unlike you I'm super happy I get a bonus episode. Also i'm fine with Amber working out Mark's secret but agree that it was handled really poorly and also that she was surprised he'd mislead her or angry about that. Like surely you can understand why the guy you've been casually dating for a couple of months might not reveal a secret that would endanger an awful lot of people and why he therefore has to come up with these excuses that he clearly does he utmost to make up for? But teenagers I guess. The biggest sin is William doesn't realise Mark's dad is Omni-Man, when he's surely the most recognizable man on the planet. You can't even use the Clark Kent wears glasses and has different body language excuse. Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Apr 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 22:47
|
|
|
Just Chamber posted:The biggest sin is William doesn't realise Mark's dad is Omni-Man, when he's surely the most recognizable man on the planet. You can't even use the Clark Kent wears glasses and has different body language excuse. Same reasoning that no one recognized Atom Eve: people see what they want to see and aren't looking for heroes all the time or whatever she told Mark. Also William did address him as Mr Grayson in ep7.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 23:02
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:The show actually sounds like an improvement on the comic. Having there be suspicion on Nathan from the start ads a lot more tension that otherwise it being a mystery. Also having Demon Detective be actually good at his job is a better choice. I remember Omni-man's turn being out of left field, like Kirkman just came up with the idea in the moment while writing it. The show definitely told it better.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 23:07
|
|
|
if he keeps this up Clancy Brown is going to get typecast as a red skinned demon man.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 23:14
|
|
|
Well he's almost a decade younger than Ron Perlman, so he can take over Hellboy duties if Ron wants to stop 
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 23:26
|
|
|
CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Same reasoning that no one recognized Atom Eve: people see what they want to see and aren't looking for heroes all the time or whatever she told Mark. Eh I can sorta forgive that as she's a generic teenage girl, maybe she's not all over tv, there's apparently a whole lot of super hero teams around, it's school no one really notices each other they're all focused on themselves etc. And he does but only because Mark had revealed to him earlier in the episode or ep 6 that his dad was Omni-Man. I meant prior to that, during his time knowing Mark and his family. He calls Mark's mum by her first name so he's pretty familiar. But yes super hero identity logic, it's all silly.
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 23:29
|
|
|
Aces High posted:Well he's almost a decade younger than Ron Perlman, so he can take over Hellboy duties if Ron wants to stop Harbour was a great Hellboy, its everything else that was poo poo
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 00:28
|
|
|
CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:Same reasoning that no one recognized Atom Eve: people see what they want to see and aren't looking for heroes all the time or whatever she told Mark. Another point to consider is that Omni-Man doesn't look particularly extraordinary when he's out of the uniform. He's just a guy in decent shape in his late 40s with a moustache, living a quiet suburban life with his family. Probably a few of Debbie's friends have joked over a prosecco that her husband looks like Omni-Man and just as probably got the response "I wish", but as you say - nobody's really looking for one of the most famous men on Earth on their own street.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 00:44
|
|
|
Yeah, while a lot of Superman comics justify his disguise as Clark Kent by saying that he adopts a different posture, wears baggy clothes to hide his frame etc. other Superman comics have posited that it works simply because most people will look at Superman and think "he'd never live as a human" or "why would he need a disguise" in the first place. Also, for all the stick the glasses as Clark gets, it's worth remembering that it's repeatedly been noted that in tense situations with authority figures that all most people will remember is the policeman's uniform or the judge's outfit; not the features of the people inhabiting those uniforms. Judges in the UK resisted getting rid of the silly wigs because all most people in court remember are the wigs, so they have a degree of protection outside their job because people in court don't recall their faces to remember them if they met on the street. As such, it's quite probable that a lot of the time most people don't pay attention to Superman's actual face and just remember his costume. Which doesn't mean as much today when everyone can record him in action and view the images or video afterwards to pay attention to his features, but was probably something else protecting his identity until the early to mid 90s. tsob fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Apr 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 00:50
|
|
|
Jedit posted:Another point to consider is that Omni-Man doesn't look particularly extraordinary when he's out of the uniform. He's just a guy in decent shape in his late 40s with a moustache, living a quiet suburban life with his family. Probably a few of Debbie's friends have joked over a prosecco that her husband looks like Omni-Man and just as probably got the response "I wish", but as you say - nobody's really looking for one of the most famous men on Earth on their own street. You can't think this hard into it -- alter-ego disguises are just an afterthought to making the costume look cool, and its convenient to show the person's face rather than a mask. People recognize celebrities on the street every day (and in this particular case I think you're nuts, Nolan's mustache and the grey-on-the-sides look is incredibly distinctive). You would absolutely recognize Omniman if he walked into Starbucks wearing a shirt and khakis, the same way you'd recognize Chris Evans even if he wasn't wearing the Captain America suit.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 00:55
|
|
|
Finale going live in like 5 minutes for anyone who plans to watch it immediately or for people who want to avoid spoilers before watching it later
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 00:56
|
|
|
if i were Omniman and someone spotted me in the Target I would just deny it. "nope, not me. yeah, i get that a lot!"
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 00:58
|
|
|
I would just tell the guy I'd love to sign a picture for him, I've got some headshots out in my car, then as soon as we got outside *fwoop* I just toss him into the sun.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 01:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 16:17 |
|
|
uber_stoat posted:if i were Omniman and someone spotted me in the Target I would just deny it. "nope, not me. yeah, i get that a lot!" "Why would Omni-man, a guy who can fly around the world in minutes, breath in space and lift mountains be in Target?" I find it hard to fathom the idea of some richer celebrities doing their own shopping at any store, never mind someplace like Target that tends to sell towards lower income groups and the only thing separating them from me is money; if there were beings who could cruise the cosmos at will and destroy civilizations at the drop of a hat I couldn't even imagine them participating in society on any regular level. At the very least I'd imagine they'd have people to go out and do the shopping for them. If someone sports the same 'tache and hair as Omni-man then it's probably because he's the most famous guy in the world and would have legions of people copying his look. The sheer improbability of it being the actual Omni-man would be more protection than any mask could offer.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 01:05
|
|