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Pistol_Pete posted:It's the wrong sort of politics for 2021: the Tory sleaze meme is designed to appeal to the voters in a supposed centre ground that doesn't really exist any more. The people who don't like Boris already don't like him; the people who do like him either don't care, or actively support 'their guy' boisterously smashing through the rules. I think the centre ground does still very much exist, its larger than the left seemingly at least. And this stuff does appeal or work for them. It's just not large enough by its own, unless the polls turn out completely wrong which... Has happened every election since 2010 pretty much. But isn't likely to redound to labour's benefit since kieth is just fully unconvincing. With a decent leader I honestly think they'd be doing OK without the left. Kier just sucks total rear end and can't peel off any lib dems or soft tories.
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Apr 30, 2021 11:25
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Lmao did kieth really do a John Lewis photo op
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Apr 30, 2021 11:27
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Jose posted:Lmao did kieth really do a John Lewis photo op Yep https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-56932548 quote:Tory chairwoman Amanda Milling said the Labour leader was "playing politics" by posing with rolls of wallpaper in a branch in Manchester. Love how the tories always criticize anyone else of 'playing politics' when they do it ALL the time. *Disclaimer: not a fan of Starmer.
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Apr 30, 2021 11:30
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Jfc lol Also lol at boomer death lust https://twitter.com/SavantaComRes/status/1388057764186972160?s=19
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Apr 30, 2021 11:32
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Jose posted:Lmao did kieth really do a John Lewis photo op people kept saying that but all i saw was a bunch of wallpaper
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Apr 30, 2021 11:34
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prefect posted:Fits in with people who paint murals about how great the US Civil War was. It's impressive just how consistently derpy loyalist murals are. Republican areas of Belfast have largely replaced all the old IRA murals with new artwork celebrating civil rights activism across the world or scenes from Irish history/folklore. The city centre is overflowing with incredible street art commissioned from artists around the world. And then you go to a loyalist area and it's poo poo like the above.
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Apr 30, 2021 11:43
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Sound on. https://twitter.com/UkrainianAK/status/1387846342626750464
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Apr 30, 2021 12:06
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Communist Thoughts posted:I think the centre ground does still very much exist, its larger than the left seemingly at least. And this stuff does appeal or work for them. Naah. Look at the 2019 election numbers: Tories (right) - 14m Labour (left) - 10m Lib Dems (centrists) - 3.5m If there really is this significant swathe of centrist opinion, where is it? I know I'm simplifying juuust a little with those numbers but I do think they support my view that most voters have become polarised and that the centrist 'swing' vote is actually pretty titchy.
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Apr 30, 2021 12:29
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Pistol_Pete posted:Naah. Look at the 2019 election numbers: But do you think the centrist vote is smaller than the left vote? I think it'd be very difficult to make that claim about the UK. Those numbers don't really represent anything regarding this imo
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Apr 30, 2021 12:38
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Communist Thoughts posted:With a decent leader I honestly think they'd be doing OK without the left. Kier just sucks total rear end and can't peel off any lib dems or soft tories. repeated elections across countries and across years have amply demonstrated that the left will turn out, and turn out in droves, for liberals and centrists and technocrats who want nothing to do with the left aside from harvesting their votes and election volunteer work. despite everything, I think the left will still turn out for Kier when election day comes. as you say though, the people who kier is trying to appeal to (the mythical centrist voter) know that kier is a loser and have responded in the way voters are supposed to respond: by not voting for kier, not giving him money, and not working for his campaign.
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Apr 30, 2021 12:42
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"the centre ground" shifts about. it's different places. the centre is, in practical politics, a compromise position between interests strong enough and invested enough to win an election. traditionally in europe, the main interests have coalesced around the power of the labour movement and that of the capitalist class, so talking about tacking to the centre is meaningful in a real way; blair won by adding the new homeowner interest to the labour-oriented coalition and dissuading big-business opposition, but that only works for so long and the tories managed to reinvent themselves and take that homeowner interest back under cameron. corbyn identified a different coalition that he hoped could win power (and which nearly did!) - educated, precarious young people in the cities providing a massively enthusiastic source of party cadres with the remnants of the labour movement providing experience and structure, hoping to keep and win older, communitarian people in the "left-behind" areas. this coalition was ruptured by brexit, never to return what i'm driving at is that "the centre ground" could very well be between the cities and the countryside; compromises always have to be made, but it's not obvious that they have to be compromises to the traditional right-wing interest complex. so long as people think that a party will serve them, they're likely to vote for it. starmer's problem isn't that he's uniquely ill-qualified, it's that nobody feels as though they're being especially served by his brand of politics - appeals to honest governance are OK given how obviously dodgy the tories are being, but people vote for their perceived interests and have no particular reason to feel that starmer would be significantly less sleazy. at the same time, he's keeping a very low policy-wise profile which is precisely the wrong move when you're attacking a remarkably stable and well-put-together interest coalition (homeowners, big business, nostalgic nationalism) - you have to break someone off and make the requisite compromises for that, or you have to try to mobilise someone else. at the moment he's not satisfying anyone
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Apr 30, 2021 12:47
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the "centrist vote" being smaller than the "left vote" may be true and also not matter much if one candidate can get 90% of the "left vote" and compensate with enough of the "centrist vote" to outweigh them, especially in a FPTP system. this is why triangulation works. the issue, of course, is that the longer that goes on, the more you erode the "left vote" and so you have to make ever further inroads into the "centrist vote" until there's basically nothing left there anymore
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Apr 30, 2021 12:51
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If Gove’s media pals and Cum Tzu really want to knife Johnson why don’t they just make something up targeted to unsettle his base and relentlessly lie about it for four years? Proven tech
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Apr 30, 2021 13:08
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i don't think they're actually interested in destroying the conservative party. this stuff seems to me to be commings warning bojo to back off, or else
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Apr 30, 2021 13:09
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Shame really, imagine a no-party state with FPTP. Gloriously cursed
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Apr 30, 2021 13:10
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the man is an op and there is no way around it https://twitter.com/mattzarb/status/1388084425477476352?s=20
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Apr 30, 2021 13:13
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The idea that he thinks he can troll his way to victory with centrist wallpaper memes is funnier though
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Apr 30, 2021 13:18
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Wait John Lewis is a home improvement store? I kept seeing the name and thought he was doing a whole "My famous (recently deceased) black friend" bit lol.
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Apr 30, 2021 13:20
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its a department store, upscale but still attached to malls. its like trying to burn trump for being an out-of-touch-rich-guy by going to nordstrom to pick out a juicer
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Apr 30, 2021 13:25
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Jose posted:the man is an op and there is no way around it the labour right people just do not understand politics at all
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Apr 30, 2021 13:29
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Shogi posted:The idea that he thinks he can troll his way to victory with centrist wallpaper memes is funnier though https://twitter.com/_georgeabby/status/1388107594397589512?s=20
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Apr 30, 2021 13:31
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V. Illych L. posted:the labour right people just do not understand politics at all theyre trying to lose and theyre extremely competent at it. the only election theyve been mad about is 2017
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Apr 30, 2021 13:34
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Clyde Radcliffe posted:It's impressive just how consistently derpy loyalist murals are. Post some, I wanna see the good Irish murals cuz this one is dogshit lmbo
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Apr 30, 2021 13:43
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Apr 30, 2021 14:01
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lmao https://twitter.com/siennamarla/status/1388119584146874375?s=20
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Apr 30, 2021 14:19
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Tulip posted:Post some, I wanna see the good Irish murals cuz this one is dogshit lmbo                            
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Apr 30, 2021 14:28
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When people say "centrist" we really mean small l liberal The problem with centrism/liberalism is that effectively liberalism (especially neoliberal economics) has won since the 80s in one form or another, but generally people have figured their lives are getting worse. So it's very difficult for say a right wing Labour party to suggest they are going to make people's lives better while also appealing to the idea of inalienable property rights, landlords and ever rising house prices, just to name a few things I'm very partial to the idea of the political history of 2008 onwards being described as the perpetual crisis of liberalism and think it will be remembered as such in the future
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Apr 30, 2021 15:02
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Holy poo poo you, I'm loving jealous.
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Apr 30, 2021 15:16
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MikeCrotch posted:
the total inability of the labour right to recognise how things changed after 2008 and the damage done by austerity is breathtaking. like sure they were for austerity until corbyn came along but they weren't in power and can ignore that fact and yet they dont its why they're doomed to keep losing 
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Apr 30, 2021 15:23
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you mean loudly telling young people to gently caress off constantly means they don't want to vote for us? https://news.sky.com/story/labour-whats-gone-wrong-for-sir-keir-starmers-party-since-december-12291340 quote:Sir Keir's party has almost entirely erased their 26 point lead over the Tories amongst 25-49 year olds last December.
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Apr 30, 2021 15:36
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remeber when teresa may said that thing about the moldy jam that was funny
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Apr 30, 2021 15:39
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Jose posted:the total inability of the labour right to recognise how things changed after 2008 and the damage done by austerity is breathtaking. like sure they were for austerity until corbyn came along but they weren't in power and can ignore that fact and yet they dont Jeremy Gilbert has a whole essay on how Corbyn only railed against the past 10 years to appease the Blairites but really needed to rail against the past 40 (including Blair) It's unbelievable how the media and Labour right have convinced themselves that what people in places like Hartlepool want is someone like Starmer when the uniting feature of the "red wall" is that they loving HATED new labour
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Apr 30, 2021 15:41
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MikeCrotch posted:Jeremy Gilbert has a whole essay on how Corbyn only railed against the past 10 years to appease the Blairites but really needed to rail against the past 40 (including Blair) well you see the only people who live in the red wall are racist miners
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Apr 30, 2021 15:44
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Jose posted:well you see the only people who live in the red wall are racist miners literal Labour right mainstream opinion there
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Apr 30, 2021 15:46
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the phrase red wall loving sucks lol it got invented in 2019 and politicians and the press pretended like it had always been a thing lmao arlene foster is quitting the DUP altogether
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Apr 30, 2021 15:47
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Jose posted:the phrase red wall loving sucks lol it got invented in 2019 and politicians and the press pretended like it had always been a thing it had been a thing since at least as far back as 1986 when brian jacques published the first volume in his much-loved fantasy novel series,
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Apr 30, 2021 16:01
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Hmm yes the party that voted in the piccaninnies with watermelon smiles guy to kill 100,000 extra people and rule that leaseholders need to pay for their overlords’ murdercladding to be replaced, whose ratings are still going up. They will be tainted forever by the stain of dissing department store wallpaper
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Apr 30, 2021 16:10
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Idk what it is but every pic I see of Keirth he looks like he's about to cry stern tears of rage or something It's like that look of vague disgust you always see on Tucker Carlson's mug
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Apr 30, 2021 16:45
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Next week is going to be carnage behind the scenes, Labour are going to get crushed and Starmer is going to have to negotiate not admitting any weakness to the left while also avoiding getting knifed by the proper Blairites Still convinced Dodds will get the sack after a reshuffle
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Apr 30, 2021 17:06
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MikeCrotch posted:Next week is going to be carnage behind the scenes, Labour are going to get crushed and Starmer is going to have to negotiate not admitting any weakness to the left while also avoiding getting knifed by the proper Blairites its bizarre that people think rachel reeves is any good lol
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Apr 30, 2021 17:07
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