|
Ola posted:I think you mean "case in point". GIVE IT TO ME Same bird with big dick posted:I think the Ford dealership is trying to poach my day one Mach e GT reservation in order to say it was an abandoned order and put it on the lot with a big ADM, and then put a new retail order in for me which would put me at the back of the line and mean an additional delay of probably 6+ months. Hit up this guy on Twitter https://twitter.com/mrlevine
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 17:49
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 21:39 |
|
|
Ola posted:I think you mean "case in point". GIVE IT TO ME Spoiler alert: 
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 20:44
|
|
|
Did anybody ever answer the question in the thread title? It's 48.6. A Powerwall 2 has 13.5 kWh, which is 48.6 megajoules. A stick of dynamite is about 1 megajoule. So 48.6 sticks of dynamite is equivalent to one Powerwall. E: a gallon of gasoline is about 33.41kWh per gallon [source]. So a Powerwall 2 is equivalent to 4/10 a gallon of gasoline, and my Model 3 has enough batteries to store the equivalent of 2 gallons of gasoline. Gasoline has a lot of energy in it, and this really illustrates the efficiencies you get with an electric car, I think! Imagine going 353 miles on 2 gallons of gasoline! cruft fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Apr 29, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 20:53
|
|
|
So many review videos these days, this stood out for including Jason Plato and his fierce hound. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_pX4kUFyUEY
|
|
#
?
Apr 29, 2021 23:10
|
|
|
cruft posted:Did anybody ever answer the question in the thread title? All heat engines, by their nature have to shed heat, and therefore cannot be 100% efficient. A good ballpark for an ICE in a car is 30-40%. The newest combined cycle gas turbine generating stations are somewhere around 60%, they use the waste heat from the exhaust to generate more electricity to get that number, so even if your electricity makeup is 100% combustion plants, and you add 10% transmission losses and 10% charging and electric motor losses you're still looking at quite a few more miles per ton of emission in electric power than gasoline. (I'm discounting refining/leakage/last mile emissions since available data on those is contested, but EV's come out ahead there too). Then you add all the hydro, wind, solar, and nuclear into that equation and you're looking at putting way less poo poo in the air per mile than any ICE vehicle. My state's 85% hydro/nuke/carbon-free renewables, so I'm looking at virtually no carbon emissions to haul my rear end to and from work, which I think is awesome, especially since my car turns its charger on in the very early morning, when close to 100% of electric demand is met from hydro-electric dams, before the gas-fired peaking plants come online.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 00:23
|
|
|
Electrify America posted that they've built 600 chargers in 3 years. Pretty impressive, can't wait to see where they are 3 years from now. Also jeez, I threw my volt's VIN into Tesla's site, and they gave me an offer equivalent to my lease payoff. Used car appreciation is real, right now. cruft posted:Did anybody ever answer the question in the thread title? 
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 08:15
|
|
|
Westy543 posted:Electrify America posted that they've built 600 chargers in 3 years. Pretty impressive, can't wait to see where they are 3 years from now. I was offered $6800 for an 11 year old Prius on carmax. Times are crazy.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 08:44
|
|
|
cruft posted:Did anybody ever answer the question in the thread title? Ask for any avatar or gangtag change / addition and it shall be yours
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 10:14
|
|
|
The person in front of me on the train has decided to reposition their car while the train is moving. I hope they know what they're doing!
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 11:43
|
|
|
 PirateDentist posted:About 50 if my back of the google numbers are correct. I didn’t show my work to be fair, but I got close!
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 13:36
|
|
|
Can we change the thread title to include the answer?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 16:12
|
|
|
knox_harrington posted:The person in front of me on the train has decided to reposition their car while the train is moving. I hope they know what they're doing! lmao, is there a rational reason why someone would do that?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 16:17
|
|
|
Fame Douglas posted:lmao, is there a rational reason why someone would do that? Maybe they wanted to go just a little bit faster for a fraction of a second?
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 16:26
|
|
|
PirateDentist posted:
I don't think the energy in a stick of dynamite is, like, super accurately defined, so "about 50" is probably as good an answer as 48.6.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 16:28
|
|
|
knox_harrington posted:The person in front of me on the train has decided to reposition their car while the train is moving. I hope they know what they're doing! One of the super awesome things about EVs is being able to run HVAC, and have the propulsion battery charge the hotel battery when you wouldn't want to run an ICE, like on that train, or on a ferry (especially during COVID when you're supposed to remain in your car) or at a drive-in movie.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 16:40
|
|
|
particle9 posted:I was offered $6800 for an 11 year old Prius on carmax. Times are crazy. Carvana is a scam to enrich the CEO and burn investor capital, but if I were selling a used car I'd go to them first because they're offering thousands over market, it's insane. I've been thinking of paying cash for local used cars then selling them to Carvana, but I haven't done the math on sales tax / registration fees to see how well it actually works out.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 17:58
|
|
|
MomJeans420 posted:Carvana is a scam to enrich the CEO and burn investor capital, but if I were selling a used car I'd go to them first because they're offering thousands over market, it's insane. I've been thinking of paying cash for local used cars then selling them to Carvana, but I haven't done the math on sales tax / registration fees to see how well it actually works out. I run the i3 through their offer thing every month or two, current offer is a couple hundred more than I paid for it last February. Kind of tempting to get something more fun.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 18:52
|
|
|
PirateDentist posted:
As the guy who started the "sticks of dynamite" thing, I say you were robbed. I have been enjoying the thread title being a reply to me though.
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 19:55
|
|
|
Wibla posted:Time to call Ford corporate? Yeah I've talked to them quite a few times lately. MomJeans420 posted:Hit up this guy on Twitter When I was talking to ford corporate about the same thing happening to my bronco reservation I read them this paragraph that was in a dealer communication (allegedly I guess) about how dealerships weren't supposed to convert orders without customer consent and that Ford CS needed to fix the situation and they said "Who said that" and I said "I think Mike Levine" and they said "Who is that" and I said "Ford's director of communications" and they said "uh whatever" basically. I called the dealership and said "Uh hey how come this four digit number that I got in my reservation order confirmation email from Ford doesn't match the four digit number that was on the order paperwork you sent me to sign" and it SEEMS like they either weren't actually intending to screw me OR were intending to screw me but realized the jig was up and they better abort. Normally I'd give them the benefit of the doubt but since they already converted my reservation to an order without my permission... So 20 minutes later I got an automated email from Ford corporate saying "Hey your order has been updated!" and then 2 minutes after that I got a manual email from the salesman saying "Here's the corrected build sheet just sign and date and return and we'll put your order in!" except the email from Ford is already confirmation that they've already put my order in. And there's no reason the dealership would ever take that order out. Basically the idiotic system Ford has cobbled together trying to combine the online ordering system of Tesla and the antiquated shitshow of their dealership network is this: You make a reservation, which requires you to put down $100-$500 depending on model. You wait a long time. Ford opens the order banks, which means that reservation can now be converted to an order. But it can only be converted to an order with dealership involvement. They either have to do it directly or you can do it online, but they have to accept it. But what happened to me, twice, was the dealership converted my reservation to an order without my consent. The reason they would do this is 1. because they can and 2. because once it's converted, Ford can't make them give it up. They've got it. They can then call me up and say "Hi, $10,000 ADM pls" and if I say no, they say okay this order has been abandoned by the customer but its still going to get built so when it shows up we'll just put it on the lot with a 10k ADM. They literally want me to abandon this order now, because what it means is that it'll bump all the other GT reservations/orders down a slot which means if they have 20 reservations and only 10 allotted for the year, whoever was in slot #10 just got bumped to 2022, they can put "my" car on the lot with an ADM and it'll be one of the first Mach e GTs around because I reserved in the first couple minutes the reservation banks were open. Which is probably what's going to happen because I actually am probably going to abandon the order for a few reasons: 1. This was supposed to replace my Accord Hybrid but since then my F-150 got totaled and replacing it is higher priority. Technically I could afford to replace both at once but it's one of those things that gives me a bit of a fiscal responsibility twinge. 2. The Mach e GT got delayed long enough that we're closer to other alternatives like the EV6 and Ioniq 5 and I think there's a pretty good chance I would rather have one of those. C. This whole process has been so stupid and annoying that I don't really want to reward Ford with a sale. IV. IME the mach e is less roomy/comfortable than both the Model Y and the e-tron, and I'm also not sold on the fixed headrest in the Mach e GT Performance. It might be good or it might be terrible and I'm kind of sensitive to this because I'm 6'5" and have a recently broken neck. f. 70 grand for a loaded Mach e (before 7500 tax credit) is getting kinda close in price to some other stuff that doesn't look like a pregnant 4 door Mustang, like a Model S or a low end Taycan. so I think what I'll probably do is wait and either get a 35" tired manual Bronco or a 37" tired Raptor or maybe a Ram TRX or maybe wait for a Rivian or a Hummer who knows and after I've got that start thinking about replacing the Accord. bird with big dick fucked around with this message at 21:56 on Apr 30, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 21:53
|
|
|
That is irritating, but those new Broncos look awesome enough to hold your nose and give Ford your money
|
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 23:35
|
|
|
MomJeans420 posted:That is irritating, but those new Broncos look awesome enough to hold your nose and give Ford your money If they had a plug in hybrid version, like Jeep has now for some of its wranglers, I would too. I just saw that caravana is willing to pay an absurd amount of money for my minivan and now I am going deep into looking at evs and phevs. Edit: apologies if this has been covered, but is it typically “better” to lease an EV vs buying one? I ask since I assume after three years there will be a better model of whichever vehicle I end up going with. Hot Dog Day #82 fucked around with this message at 00:06 on May 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
Apr 30, 2021 23:48
|
|
|
MomJeans420 posted:Carvana is a scam to enrich the CEO and burn investor capital, but if I were selling a used car I'd go to them first because they're offering thousands over market, it's insane. I've been thinking of paying cash for local used cars then selling them to Carvana, but I haven't done the math on sales tax / registration fees to see how well it actually works out. Carvana was lower 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 00:31
|
|
|
Judging from people I know this seems to be in the ballpark, although the more recent purchasers of EVs I know don't seem like they'll be switching back. https://twitter.com/staunovo/status/1388179639563128832?s=20
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 02:17
|
|
|
MomJeans420 posted:Judging from people I know this seems to be in the ballpark, although the more recent purchasers of EVs I know don't seem like they'll be switching back. Depending on your definition of recent keep in mind that the study only covers 2012-2018.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 02:33
|
|
|
MomJeans420 posted:Carvana is a scam to enrich the CEO and burn investor capital, but if I were selling a used car I'd go to them first because they're offering thousands over market, it's insane. I've been thinking of paying cash for local used cars then selling them to Carvana, but I haven't done the math on sales tax / registration fees to see how well it actually works out. There is a company in the UK that did what Caranana is doing and is worth some absolutely stupid amount of money. See Vroom, GMTV, etc.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 02:33
|
|
|
MomJeans420 posted:Judging from people I know this seems to be in the ballpark, although the more recent purchasers of EVs I know don't seem like they'll be switching back. My wife refused to ever check if the car was actually charging after half rear end plugging it in repeatedly. I think she has Exxon in her 401k.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 02:45
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Edit: apologies if this has been covered, but is it typically “better” to lease an EV vs buying one? I ask since I assume after three years there will be a better model of whichever vehicle I end up going with. I was under the impression it is never in your fiscal interest to lease, regardless of the drivetrain technology. But I heard that 10 years ago, so I'm bumping your question 😉
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 04:13
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #82 posted:
As said above, it's probably not cheaper than getting a cheap loan, it's more of a known vs unknown quantity thing.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 04:48
|
|
|
cruft posted:I was under the impression it is never in your fiscal interest to lease, regardless of the drivetrain technology. But I heard that 10 years ago, so I'm bumping your question 😉 It would take me paying my current payment for like 13 years with to pay off my E-tron assuming no interest. 18 with. Up until about 6 months ago it made more sense to lease /most/ cars if you turn over cars more than every 5 years. For non tesla EVs the depreciation is so great it's generally better to lease. It all depends on your situation.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 04:51
|
|
|
Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Edit: apologies if this has been covered, but is it typically “better” to lease an EV vs buying one? I ask since I assume after three years there will be a better model of whichever vehicle I end up going with. There are much better cars than my 2013 Leaf but I’ve put 103,000 miles on it in 7.5 years. Assuming it were worth $0 tomorrow, that’s $0.22/mile in acquisition costs. Including all maintenance and operating costs that puts me below $0.32/mile and falling. $300/mo for 13,733 miles per year would be $0.26/mile in lease costs (assuming $0 down and no other financing expenses). Now there have been lease options lower than $300/mo (there was a $199/mo lease offer when we bought) but those were also base models so I upped it a little. Thus, in our case, buying has been worth it monetarily. I left out all the ‘transportation to and from Southeast Alaska’ math because that’s not really relevant to almost anybody else, but it does factor into my total expenses figure.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 05:02
|
|
|
Leasing EVs is in a weird spot where depreciation is probably being underestimated and also offset by federal and state incentives. That and manufacturers are probably pushing dealers to sell as many as possible in certain markets to avoid fines. Some people have gotten incredibly cheap leases on Bolts, like $150-200 a month. Combine that with costs for a major component (batteries) projected to fall and the massive churn in models we'll be seeing in the next 3 years, a good lease deal could come out pretty well if your plan was to buy a new car in 3 years time when things have maybe settled down. This is with a bunch of assumptions about what you can find now and what will happen in the near future, but it has some basis in reality That being said, getting a new car every 3-5 years is generally not a good financial decision in itself regardless of whether you outright buy, lease, or finance.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 05:02
|
|
|
gwrtheyrn posted:Leasing EVs is in a weird spot where depreciation is probably being underestimated and also offset by federal and state incentives. That and manufacturers are probably pushing dealers to sell as many as possible in certain markets to avoid fines. Some people have gotten incredibly cheap leases on Bolts, like $150-200 a month. Combine that with costs for a major component (batteries) projected to fall and the massive churn in models we'll be seeing in the next 3 years, a good lease deal could come out pretty well if your plan was to buy a new car in 3 years time when things have maybe settled down. This is with a bunch of assumptions about what you can find now and what will happen in the near future, but it has some basis in reality Yeah the entire lease and used market is in this.... really weird loving place right now and I still can't make any sense of it. I keep thinking of my car as "new"-ish but it's I've had it for 6 years now, and it's 8 yeard old, it's been paid off for a while, and still runs great so even the idea of buying an EV this year feels... like a big luxurious thing. Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 05:18 on May 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 05:11
|
|
|
Shamino posted:It would take me paying my current payment for like 13 years with to pay off my E-tron assuming no interest. 18 with. By now I should have learned to stop underestimating just how good a lease deal you can get in the US. It might not be a good deal to change cars every three years, but in the next three specific years there are some very good cars coming out and they will be even better after three years of getting all the variants released and bugs shaken out. Or depreciate for a good deal on a used one. And there'll be newer ones as well of course. With that perspective, I would certainly try looking for a great deal.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 05:17
|
|
|
I decided to go from buying a car with cash to leasing one. Main reason is that I found that the de facto monthly cost (excluding fuel) was about the same, and that the cash I got from selling the PHEV does better work in index funds than in a depreciating asset. That combined with the EV market moving fast and I don't want to have to care about selling a depreciating asset where it is pretty unknown how much it'll be worth at the end. It also made me more comfortable to go for the "leasing turqoise" instead of "resale silver". The roads need more fun colours. .... which brings me to the new Ioniq... the first edition colours on offer in Sweden are super "meh".
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 07:20
|
|
|
MrOnBicycle posted:"leasing turqoise" instead of "resale silver". Haha!
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 07:23
|
|
|
Caveat... things right now are very strange. Strange voodoo! Leases even in normal times are not "bad". They are actually pretty good. They are only "bad" if you are someone with limited predictable income or if rates are going down considerably. If you decide to lease instead of buy (and I'll assume you aren't a moron and know how to lease well, aka not get ripped off at the dealer) then you can expect to pay around a $100 a month premium over the cost of buying and selling offset depreciation. Essentially leasing lets you get the latest cars every three years, the latest safety, you own the car during its most trouble free maintenance covered period for on average $100 more a month (around $1000 a year). So if you lease vs buy over 10 years you can expect to be deeper in the hole $10k vs if you had bought something and driven it into the ground and not had any costly maintenance. I think you would have to agree that isn't a very bad proposition. You are protected against depreciation, major repair, and you are safer and you get all the new features of which are many as of late (edit: this kind of glosses over that you will be paying higher fees to the DMV probably/insurance/etc due to a higher MSRP all the time, but still, it's not a big deal and is mitigated somewhat by not having to pay full sales tax). So why would you buy? Well... rate right now are between 1.5-4%. That is loving insane. Government in the right circumstances will cut you a $7,500 check to buy a certain car. Insane. So if you were to finance given a 2.5% rate or lower you would be advantaged right now because you can put very little down, finance over a very long time (72 months) and pay very very little in interest. Combine that with tax and ev rebates and you get a kind of crazy perfect storm. Combine that with chip shortages and cars costing so much for the last decade and used cars are holding value. This can land you on the extreme upside of the depreciation calculation and make that $1000 a year premium for leasing turn into something else through lack of depreciation. BUT! If you lease and your car doesn't depreciate like it should you can just go sell it before the lease is up and pocket the difference! So... why do people buy Tesla then? Well... that is kind of a hosed up situation. They do not offer you the lowest rate to finance. I think it's closer to like 4%. That rate is not as good as financing through a bank. They pocket that money. They do not let you sell/buy the car at the end of the lease. Uh-oh... you can not recapture depreciation or lack there of. They seem to be holding their value well which makes the depreciation curve messed up and favors buying. TLDR; lease everything but a Tesla! If I had more sense I would wait for the Q4, lease that poo poo from the dealer at the end of the year and wait out this cluster gently caress in three years. Dealers can set residual and game tax credits to offer insanely low lease deals right now. Why would you not lease? Well... I guess if you thought rates were about to spike to 6-8%? If you feel like inflation is around the corner and your debts will be worth pennies in the near future? You have to be really financially frugal and really happy to drive something into the dirt to think leasing isn't a great option if you live in the USA IMO. I am also not smart so this is just what I think and you can tell me why I'm wrong and I won't listen probably. particle9 fucked around with this message at 07:45 on May 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 07:39
|
|
|
The financing options for Tesla vary by area. In my case (AZ), they just handled the paperwork for Chase Auto which offered an identical rate to State Farm and my local credit union, and then handed me the details to register with Chase's system at the end so they're not even in the middle of the payment loop. But since they're not a "dealership", some local laws may prohibit or restrict what financing they offer or how and you'd need to check locally: they were more than happy to share that they were fronting Chase and asked if I had another lender in mind that I wanted to finance through instead.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 07:54
|
|
|
MrOnBicycle posted:I decided to go from buying a car with cash to leasing one. Main reason is that I found that the de facto monthly cost (excluding fuel) was about the same, and that the cash I got from selling the PHEV does better work in index funds than in a depreciating asset. That combined with the EV market moving fast and I don't want to have to care about selling a depreciating asset where it is pretty unknown how much it'll be worth at the end. It also made me more comfortable to go for the "leasing turqoise" instead of "resale silver". The roads need more fun colours. And there's already talk of the AWD version being pushed to Q1 2022 which means probably a solid year before most people get theirs. I will admit I felt slight regret having ordered an e-Niro when the price dropped on the Ioniq but I'd definitely want the AWD and I am not waiting another year for an EV. I figure in 2-3 years after it's had the initial bugs worked out it might be a good option. Reading the ID4 forums now I am glad I canceled mine because man that's a lot of weird bugs to deal with. I'd hope for VW getting their poo poo figured out soon but then I was reminded of our Passat GTE which still disables sensors seemingly at random due to software bugs. Clayton Bigsby fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 07:57
|
|
|
In Norway Tesla are offering 1.49% on the Model 3 SR+ and 0.25% on the LR, for 36 months. Speaking of crazy rates, the Rimac C_Two. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXe4X3rYIPw 0-60 2.33s (dirty surface, road tires) 1/4 mile 8.94s. e: also fun to spy on Mate's tabs and bookmarks. "E-Bike tours", "Review of BMW 3..." and "Salaries dashboard". Ola fucked around with this message at 08:04 on May 1, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 07:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 21:39 |
|
|
particle9 posted:You have to be really financially frugal and really happy to drive something into the dirt to think leasing isn't a great option if you live in the USA IMO.. Between my wife and I we’ve never disposed of a vehicle. The Leaf is our newest by 20 years.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2021 08:01
|
|