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Should troll Fancy Pelosi be allowed to stay? This poll is closed. |
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GlyphGryph posted:Is this just... what? Where did I lose you. I'm saying the only way slavery can be defended on utilitarian grounds is by implicitly or explicitly defining slaves as not-people, because otherwise slavery has massive negative utility to the people being enslaved which must be taken into account. I mean, just take it to its logical conclusion: if slavery has positive utility because (I guess), the negative utility imposed on the slaves is more than made up for by the positive utility of other people getting free stuff, then logically the ideal society would be one person owning everyone else as slaves, because if every enslaved person contributes some amount of net positive utility then the greatest good is maximizing the number of utility-giving enslaved persons. E: if that's too complicated, I'm saying the person arguing slavery is utilitarian is (at best) making a massive oversight in their definitions VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 19:46 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 19:41
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VitalSigns posted:that is not what slaveowners wanted lmao, they wanted them counted as full persons for representation only, nonpersons for direct taxation, and nonpersons for voting We are talking about the 3/5ths compromise specifically. How are you so bad at following simple conversations.
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May 4, 2021 19:42
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Oracle posted:Can't have people benefiting from Democratic policies they might start getting ideas and voting for someone without an R after their name. I don't think it is necessarily a thing to prevent Democratic policies. They are also ending all of the waivers they have had since 2020. It's entirely about forcing people reluctant to work because of either low wages or health issues into going back to regular employment. quote:In addition to ending participation in the increased unemployment payments, the state will also require unemployed people seeking the benefits to actively seek work to qualify starting at the end of June, a requirement that was waived at the onset of the pandemic. A 13-week limit on the duration of eligibility for unemployment benefits that was waived during the pandemic will be reinstated. The unemployment rate in Montana is already incredibly low. quote:The state’s unemployment dropped to 3.8% last month, reaching pre-pandemic joblessness levels. Despite an influx of new residents to the state, Labor Commissioner Laurie Esau said the state’s workforce is 10,000 workers smaller than it was before the pandemic
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May 4, 2021 19:42
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I think it's performative austerity, like when the states refused to accept medicaid expansion because it was a liberal program.
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May 4, 2021 19:44
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GlyphGryph posted:We are talking about the 3/5ths compromise specifically. How are you so bad at following simple conversations. Yes, the 3/5 compromise also applied to population counts for direct taxation, you are incorrect to assert that slaveowners wanted slaves to count as full persons. They wanted an incoherent definition that counted slaves as full persons for apportionment of representation, and nonpersons for apportionment of direct taxation.
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May 4, 2021 19:45
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I love that low unemployment and businesses unable to find workers means we need to attack every perceived problem EXCEPT perhaps raising pay to entice new workers. I swear some small local businesses would rather go out of business bemoaning the lack of qualified workers instead of offering a penny more in wages.zoux posted:I think it's performative austerity, like when the states refused to accept medicaid expansion because it was a liberal program. I think it's more believing the bullshit that unemployment is leading to small businesses failing due to not finding workers. It's getting memed up and that leads to some of this stupid poo poo.
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May 4, 2021 19:46
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zoux posted:I think it's performative austerity, like when the states refused to accept medicaid expansion because it was a liberal program. Its exactly this. They're spitting on the money because a Democrat gave it to them. Hopefully Montanans will finally get tired of getting hosed by their own state government and fix their poo poo in response. Its consistently one of the most competitive rural states for Democrats.
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May 4, 2021 19:47
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VitalSigns posted:Where did I lose you. The part where what you were saying made no sense. Which you clearly seem to understand based on the rest of your post now so why are you even asking?
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May 4, 2021 19:47
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Caitlyn Jenner's campaign has officially kicked off. She's going with "a compassionate disruptor" as her campaign slogan. quote:Jenner, meanwhile, released a video with a more inspirational and patriotic tone. She calls herself a “compassionate disruptor” in the ad that features clips from her Summer Olympics appearance in 1976, when she won the gold medal in the men’s decathlon. https://apnews.com/article/california-government-and-politics-eda107986e8211ce052ebf1ad2bef6ff https://twitter.com/Caitlyn_Jenner/status/1389569889799610369 Latest poll for the recall shows: 45% in favor 45% opposed 10% unsure. Jenner and Cox are the leading candidates on the replacement slate. https://cagop.my.salesforce.com/sfc/p/#3i000000CsCG/a/3i000000DHeX/EErV31t96ji_Hm0jK7aqg0Ll3d._hRKkXj7vagST83M Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 19:51 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 19:48
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VitalSigns posted:Where did I lose you. But that isn't the utilitarian argument. Forced organ harvesting can be a net benefit for society under the utilitarian view, but you'd have to be real dumb to think that means "harvest every organ, needed or not, and toss them on a giant pile". The utilitarian view is not slavery = good so more slaves = more good. The utilitarian view acknowledges the declining marginal benefit of adding an additional slave, so you wouldn't end up with 99% of the population enslaved. However classical utilitarianism leads to some messed up justifications so someone had to come up with rule utilitarianism.
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May 4, 2021 19:51
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GlyphGryph posted:The part where what you were saying made no sense. Which you clearly seem to understand based on the rest of your post now so why are you even asking? those two posts said the same thing, chill out man, you can just ask nicely if you didn't understand what I wrote at first instead of being oddly hostile and combative after I explained for you
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May 4, 2021 19:51
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selec posted:It is hard to overstate how fast people radicalized after the war kicked off. I have read a lot of letters from Iowans who fought and the speed with which they go from “wonder what grand capers me and the local boys will get up to?” to “And I feel no remorse for stacking up the bodies of slavers like cordwood” is astonishing This. It’s loving fascinating. I remember one of my favorite professors compared the causes of the civil war and slavery to like a vine or crawler. It was a main cause site but it also spread to the effect and cause the other causes too.
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May 4, 2021 19:52
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DARPA posted:But that isn't the utilitarian argument. Forced organ harvesting can be a net benefit for society under the utilitarian view, but you'd have to be real dumb to think that means "harvest every organ, needed or not, and toss them on a giant pile". The utilitarian view is not slavery = good so more slaves = more good. The utilitarian view acknowledges the declining marginal benefit of adding an additional slave, so you wouldn't end up with 99% of the population enslaved. However classical utilitarianism leads to some messed up justifications so someone had to come up with rule utilitarianism. I suppose but if you're going to bring in marginal utility, it seems the decadent luxury of the slaveowners must have long passed the point of diminishing returns, no? I mean, is an extra slave to serve Lord General Beaureguard mint juleps on the porch on a hot summer day really providing more positive utility to him than negative utility to the slave? Given the realities of what slavery in the USA really was, this argument also seems to rely on not counting slaves as people whose utility should be taken into account, because like come on, mint juleps > lifetime of bonded labor? E: not to mention slaveowners, ya know, raping their slaves and poo poo. This just seems like a poorly-thought-out debatelord "well akshually" argument to me, no offense to you, I'm just talking about the argument itself I don't think you're actually defending it or anything VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 19:58 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 19:54
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Nenonen posted:Counter-point: hasn't covid affected big liberal cities the worst? Which is where a slight demographic shift doesn't matter - either the old people are liberals anyway or if conservatives they are nowhere close to turning any seats ever. There aren't really major Republican cities any more. Even the medium sized metropolitan areas that vote Republican are usually more of a Democratic city surrounded by low density Republican suburbs (dense suburbs aren't Republican either). So in competitive districts (and swing states) the Democrats still mostly live in Democratic cities. If covid did hit big cities much harder it would matter in all the swing states and a lot of congressional districts. I'm not sure it actually did though, or if it just hit big cities first.
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May 4, 2021 19:54
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Montana just opted out of the free unemployment boost in the stimulus bill. That isn’t surprising to be honest. Right now in Montana, just about every single restaurant and store is scrambling to get employees. Handful of restaurants have closed their lobbies for months now since they lack people. Bunch of dipshits are blaming people for being on unemployment, but the biggest issue is the pay is low here, and if you could make more while on unemployment, well, why wouldn’t you? Most now hiring signs I see are offering $12-14 and people aren’t going for it. So instead of raising wages, it’s go cry to the governor.
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May 4, 2021 19:56
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Caitlyn Jenner's campaign has officially kicked off. The irony of a bigoted Transwoman who won the Olympic Gold Medal wanting to deny that opportunity to young transwomen, and then bragging about her own win. Just the best possible display of the FYGM that utterly consumes "conservative" politics
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May 4, 2021 19:56
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The COVID deniers respond to the incorrigible teens! Yes the kids are the brainwashed ones here. James Garfield posted:There aren't really major Republican cities any more. Even the medium sized metropolitan areas that vote Republican are usually more of a Democratic city surrounded by low density Republican suburbs (dense suburbs aren't Republican either). I looked it up out of curiosity and (while this doesn't necessarily mean a city is "Republican) the largest cities run by GOP mayors are, Jacksonville (#14), Ft. Worth (18), OKC (27), zoux fucked around with this message at 20:02 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 19:59
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Caitlyn Jenner's campaign has officially kicked off.
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May 4, 2021 20:00
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zoux posted:The COVID deniers respond to the incorrigible teens! As an aside, why was the image deleted? I was able to see it before. I run into this a lot and I thought it was something on my end where like every image is gone.
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May 4, 2021 20:01
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zoux posted:The COVID deniers respond to the incorrigible teens! grooming is a pretty great Freudian slip / projection slip.
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May 4, 2021 20:05
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Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:Latest poll for the recall shows: Worth noting that this poll was conducted by McLaughlin, aka Eric Cantor's pollster.
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May 4, 2021 20:06
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TulliusCicero posted:The irony of a bigoted Transwoman who won the Olympic Gold Medal wanting to deny that opportunity to young transwomen, and then bragging about her own win. She did not compete against other women, though.
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May 4, 2021 20:06
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Speaking of one of the leading candidates for the GOP recall effort https://twitter.com/emily_hoeven/status/1389628775185354759 Oh and Stefanik appears to be the front runner for Liz Cheney's replacement (or at least the only public runner so far) https://twitter.com/JakeSherman/status/1389637847922233345
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May 4, 2021 20:07
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Big pharma doesn't want to release patents for the covid vaccine because "oooh China and Russia might use them to cure cancer"""Financial Times" posted:Vaccine makers have warned US officials that temporarily scrapping patents for Covid-19 shots would risk handing novel technology to China and Russia, according to people familiar with the talks. Meanwhile poor countries are struggling to vaccinate their populations and don't have access to the patents to make their own generic versions. Nationalize pharmaceutical companies.
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May 4, 2021 20:11
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TheOneAndOnlyT posted:Reeeeeeeeeally skeptical about a poll directly from the CA GOP showing a 45/45 tie when most recent polls have shown that No is pretty comfortably above 50%. It's posted on the CA GOP's site, but it wasn't run by the CA GOP. They are most likely highlighting it because it was the most recent and margin of error/outlier favored the pro-recall. According to Wikipedia, the most recent poll results were: 45/45 40/56 40/46 38/42 Only 1 is over 50% opposed. So, it is not a sure thing given the high undecided and margin of error. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 20:14 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 20:12
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I get twitchy thinking about Newsom getting recalled. Gavin hasn't been great, but we don't need a GOP governor in that state. I hope engagement is high, but given what happened in TX-06 and how bad "liberal" voters are when it's not a presidential race, am I overreacting about how this could be bad?
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May 4, 2021 20:15
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So is there any serious/establishment GOP candidate running or is it all clown car candidates like this guy and Jenner?
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May 4, 2021 20:16
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Eric Cantonese posted:I get twitchy thinking about Newsom getting recalled. Gavin hasn't been great, but we don't need a GOP governor in that state. Newsom/reject recall is for sure the favorite. But, it is one of those situations where low turnout and weird dynamics (you can vote "Yes" on the "Should he be recalled?" question and not vote for any candidate and it still counts as pro-recall) could make it close.
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May 4, 2021 20:18
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Handsome Ralph posted:So is there any serious/establishment GOP candidate running or is it all clown car candidates like this guy and Jenner? Cox was the GOP Nominee for Governor before. There's a few former backbencher Congressmen running, but Cox and Jenner are most likely going to be the two biggest candidates. Part of the advantage they have is that they don't have to sell voters on themselves specifically. They just have to get 50%+1 on the recall question.
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May 4, 2021 20:21
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zoux posted:The COVID deniers respond to the incorrigible teens!
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May 4, 2021 20:26
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Where did that guy get an unrestrained bear? Who would agree to provide a bear and let it run completely free in a developed area, near VIPs and audience members? Is the handler right now on the bus, tied to a chair, screaming about how the consequences are not his responsibility? Did they just lure a wild bear out of the woods themselves? I have so many questionsLeon Trotsky 2012 posted:But, it is one of those situations where low turnout and weird dynamics (you can vote "Yes" on the "Should he be recalled?" question and not vote for any candidate and it still counts as pro-recall) could make it close. So what would happen in the insanely unlikely but theoretically possible case that recall wins but no votes were cast for a replacement? vvvvvvvvvv Two questions are polled simultaneously, on the same ballot. You have to pick Yes or No on the question of "should Newsome be recalled" and, separately, enter your choice for who should be governor of California. If do not recall wins, all the governor votes are thrown out. If recall wins, the winner of the governor vote is now governor. haveblue fucked around with this message at 20:31 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 20:26
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So a new governor is elected along with the recall campaign if it's successful? They don't do a recall and then a general election to replace him?
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May 4, 2021 20:28
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Ethiser posted:Why isn’t “The Krusty Krab is a metaphor for society” already the thread title? For real yo.
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May 4, 2021 20:29
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scopes posted:That's... pretty clearly not what they're thinking in that post. Ah, that really clears things up.
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May 4, 2021 20:31
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Handsome Ralph posted:So is there any serious/establishment GOP candidate running or is it all clown car candidates like this guy and Jenner? Cox is the most serious, he ran in 2018 against Newsom. He got 38% of the vote. FCKGW fucked around with this message at 20:43 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 20:39
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Normy posted:So a new governor is elected along with the recall campaign if it's successful? They don't do a recall and then a general election to replace him? Correct. I think the anti-recall movement will be greatly helped by the fact that the anti-mask loons with Stop the Steal flags are starting to also carry pro-recall signs. It might be possible to be convince me that Newsom should be recalled, I cannot be convinced that those drunk assholes that cause wrecks on the freeway every few weeks are actually right about anything.
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May 4, 2021 20:40
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Have the Democrats stuck his vice gov on the list of candidates?
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May 4, 2021 20:41
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Handsome Ralph posted:So is there any serious/establishment GOP candidate running or is it all clown car candidates like this guy and Jenner? The GOP is all clown car now. Cox and Jenner are the "serious" candidates.
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May 4, 2021 20:44
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Normy posted:So a new governor is elected along with the recall campaign if it's successful? They don't do a recall and then a general election to replace him? Yes, the recall ballot has two questions 1) Should Newsom be recalled? 2) If so, who should replace him? If the first question doesn't pass than the second doesn't matter. evilweasel posted:Have the Democrats stuck his vice gov on the list of candidates? So far they've been unified in not putting any Dems on the list of candidates so it doesn't give incentives for anyone for vote for question one. To get on the ballot you only need to fill out a form and pay the $8k filing fee so there's gonna be a lot of crazies on there. FCKGW fucked around with this message at 20:47 on May 4, 2021 |
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May 4, 2021 20:45
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evilweasel posted:Have the Democrats stuck his vice gov on the list of candidates? The Lt. Gov already ruled out. I believe the strategy is to keep other Dems off the ballot because it would incentivize pro-recall votes.
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May 4, 2021 20:47
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