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Nessus posted:The big problem with Zenos of course is that he's a resonant and has clearly figured out how to do the body hopping thing, and I'm not sure if that's going to be limited to range. Maybe he'll hop into Thancred! Thancred's already been used for this purpose after all. Was just thinking about this- for him to die he has to be given the Nabriales/Elidibus treatment. I wonder if that's what'll happen? Like, it turns out that Fandaniel doesn't have a bigger plan, he actually is just a big suicidal rear end in a top hat, and he wants to summon Zodiark solely to gently caress the world, and he does something like the inverse of trapping a soul in White Auracite - trapping Zenos's soul in dark aether or something - to overload both Zenos and himself and create a rift big enough for Zodiark to come though. e: And the WoL is there and watching while this happens, tries to stop it and fails, so Zenos doesn't get his fight and dies watching his WORST FRIEND/BEST ENEMY pitying his useless rear end. ez game hire me square Chillgamesh fucked around with this message at 22:27 on May 6, 2021 |
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May 6, 2021 22:23
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Can't we just get him an allagan node that resembles us that he can
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May 6, 2021 22:24
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Chillgamesh posted:Was just thinking about this- for him to die he has to be given the Nabriales/Elidibus treatment. I wonder if that's what'll happen? Like, it turns out that Fandaniel doesn't have a bigger plan, he actually is just a big suicidal rear end in a top hat, and he wants to summon Zodiark solely to gently caress the world, and he does something like the inverse of trapping a soul in White Auracite - trapping Zenos's soul in dark aether or something - to overload both Zenos and himself and create a rift big enough for Zodiark to come though. I can imagine the fate of the 'pilots' of Zodiark and Hydaelyn to be somewhat the same as that, yea, basically bound forever to the primal's aether and if that primal dies...welp there goes your aether too.
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May 6, 2021 22:25
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What if the Warrior of Light got buried in the deepest muck by a bunch of gremlins at 87 and you had to finish the rest of the expansion as the real hero instead?
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May 6, 2021 22:40
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I would love to play as Tataru
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May 6, 2021 22:41
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let's introduce Zenos to Omega
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May 6, 2021 22:45
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Hogama posted:What if the Warrior of Light got buried in the deepest muck by a bunch of gremlins at 87 and you had to finish the rest of the expansion as the real hero instead? In the following duty, you will play as Hildibrand Helidor Maximilian Manderville.
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May 6, 2021 22:55
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:They've already stated that the raids will not be references, and will be self-contained within FFXIV. I dunno. Literally none of FF14's raid series have been self-contained. I can't think of a single trial or alliance raid boss that doesn't come from another game, usually a FF game. What I'm hoping this means is that the raids will be integrated more fully into the lore and setting of 14, like Mhach and Crystal Tower. Not just 'here's another game's setting' like Ivalice and YoRHa.
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May 6, 2021 23:02
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I think I'd have trouble coming up with 12 bosses people would give a poo poo about without borrowing from other games
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May 6, 2021 23:03
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Cythereal posted:I dunno. Literally none of FF14's raid series have been self-contained. I can't think of a single trial or alliance raid boss that doesn't come from another game, usually a FF game. Rihtahtyn, Vishap, Thordan, Nidhogg, the four lords, Tsukiyomi, Titania, and Innocence are all trials essentially unique to FFXIV from a series perspective. Mythological or literary references aside, but how far do you want to take that? Nael Van Darnus, Brute Justice, Artemis, Phlegethon, Echida, and Calofisteri are all end of raid bosses that are the same. Plenty of others if I count the non-final boss of each tier. There are more that share merely a name, again, which is usually pulled from mythology or literature. There's plenty of room to have characters that aren't references to other games, especially if they keep them general. Alexander I'd call self contained to XIV, even if it shares a name and giant mechanical fortress imagery. 11/12 bosses are new, his backstory and purpose in the story are new, and none of them really draw from any specific source. Eden comparatively has a lot of new enemies, but there's still strong FF8 motifs in the names, music, and themes that come up. It's all still contained in XIV, but obviously a reference. I guess the threshold is how detailed something has to be to be considered a reference? Like Emet-Selch - is he a Final Fantasy 12 reference? Or did they just steal some names? Orcs and Ostriches fucked around with this message at 23:25 on May 6, 2021 |
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May 6, 2021 23:21
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Rihtahtyn, Vishap, Thordan, Nidhogg, the four lords, Tsukiyomi, Titania, and Innocence are all trials essentially unique to FFXIV from a series perspective. Mythological or literary references aside, but how far do you want to take that? Echinda's an FF3 Reference and Calofisteri is from FF5 Like Echidna's got some asethic changes to fit being a voidsent instead of hanging green demon but she's got the pose in full form. and Calo is just straight pulled 
ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 23:40 on May 6, 2021 |
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May 6, 2021 23:26
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Also Thordan is just Knights of the Round in boss fight form.
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May 6, 2021 23:31
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10/12 bosses of alexander since cruise chaser is, well, cruise chaser. actually 9/12 because the manipulator is from saga frontier
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May 6, 2021 23:32
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The four lords, while pulled from mythology in every case ever, were also in FFXI, and if you're willing to count SaGa games, Final Fantasy Legends II/SaGa 2.
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May 6, 2021 23:32
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Fair points. But there's still enough material from the FFXIV incarnations that they can create something unique to the settings. It's not like Void Ark is the Final Fantasy 3 raid because it has Echidna.
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May 6, 2021 23:42
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:It's not like Void Ark is the Final Fantasy 3 raid because it has Echidna. That, and they already did a series of Final Fantasy 3 raids. 
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May 7, 2021 00:00
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Yeah like FF3 and FFT have just been adapted into FFXIV's historical record, while there is no sign that the Shin-Ra Electric Power Company caused the end of the second astral era. Yet
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May 7, 2021 00:06
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Echidna is however a FF3 boss in that raid specifically because people wondered why she was excluded from Crystal Tower, as Void Ark was the very next alliance content after World of Darkness
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May 7, 2021 00:15
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I just think the best way to deal with Zenos is to end with a mirror of the first fight, only we're level 90 and he's still level 70. It would also be the most unsatisfying for him because he wants this big equal battle and if we just put in the trash where he loving belongs, he's robbed of that, we kill him, and we move on to more interesting things because gently caress Zenos making the story worse.
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May 7, 2021 00:38
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Echidna getting bullied out of World of Darkness because four minibosses doesn't fit into the normal alliance raid structure is pretty funny.
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May 7, 2021 00:39
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I still think the right thing to do with Zenos isn't for us to dunk on him, it's for somebody else to dunk on him. There's nothing new added to the game's story by having us fight a guy we've kicked the rear end of three times now, but there is value in somebody else doing it. Like Krile. Make Zenos' death scene a lalafel woman showing him 'how you REALLY use her Echo'.
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May 7, 2021 01:06
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I wanna fight zenos last time I didn't have Scorch
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May 7, 2021 01:15
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The new 8-man is a set of twelve increasingly-baroque battles with Zenos.
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May 7, 2021 01:21
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Cleretic posted:I still think the right thing to do with Zenos isn't for us to dunk on him, it's for somebody else to dunk on him. There's nothing new added to the game's story by having us fight a guy we've kicked the rear end of three times now, but there is value in somebody else doing it. Has the game ever actually introduced a notable lady-fel who is good at combat? Krile is an honest healer at best and is straight up an academic not a fighter, Tataru is only dangerous with a checkbook... admittedly very dangerous but still not a combat specialization. There may be a few spellcaster types, but I think that's about it and none are immediately coming to mind.
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May 7, 2021 01:27
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the_steve posted:Has the game ever actually introduced a notable lady-fel who is good at combat? Krile is an honest healer at best and is straight up an academic not a fighter, Tataru is only dangerous with a checkbook... admittedly very dangerous but still not a combat specialization. Would a dwarf count?
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May 7, 2021 01:28
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the_steve posted:Has the game ever actually introduced a notable lady-fel who is good at combat? Krile is an honest healer at best and is straight up an academic not a fighter, Tataru is only dangerous with a checkbook... admittedly very dangerous but still not a combat specialization. I dunno about notable, but there was an extremely angry ladyfel marauder in La Noscea who has some sidequests (and also a postmoogle quest) about her.
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May 7, 2021 01:32
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Also in the debatably notable, your buddy in the PGL chain (not the old pervert who the game thinks is funny rather than gross, but your partner) is a lala lass.
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May 7, 2021 01:33
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I'd vote yes for Giott.
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May 7, 2021 01:33
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Giott is probably the most prominent one
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May 7, 2021 01:34
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Can't believe I forgot Giott  Just gonna go ahead and claim that I was focusing solely on characters from The Source, yeah  And yeah, your fellow PGL student whose name I can't remember is a good one.
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May 7, 2021 01:37
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I would accept Giott being the one to kill Zenos. No explanation given, because she's too drunk to remember how she got there, but she does suplex Zenos partway through a big dramatic speech.
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May 7, 2021 01:37
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the_steve posted:Has the game ever actually introduced a notable lady-fel who is good at combat? Krile is an honest healer at best and is straight up an academic not a fighter, Tataru is only dangerous with a checkbook... admittedly very dangerous but still not a combat specialization. Shattoto, though she is kinda dead?
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May 7, 2021 01:59
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Rihtahtyn, Vishap, Thordan, Nidhogg, the four lords, Tsukiyomi, Titania, and Innocence are all trials essentially unique to FFXIV from a series perspective. Mythological or literary references aside, but how far do you want to take that? Ravana and Susano as well.
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May 7, 2021 02:08
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Lyon and Addramalech are basically the only parts of Bozja up to this point that aren't unique, although 5.55 will pull in FFXII stuff. EDIT: Hades is technically I guess a mashup of the FFVII and FFIX Hadeses (Hadii? Hadepodes?), but doesn't resemble either beyond the name and I guess the posture, really. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 02:17 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 02:13
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OddObserver posted:Shattoto, though she is kinda dead?  Her and your BLM trainer, yeah, she'd count. But yeah, seems like 99% of any combat specced lalafell is a caster. There are a few examples like Pippin and the MRD from your Scholar quests and Giott, but the vast majority are Thaumaturges it seems. And there's no way they're going to let someone as anime as Zenos lose to someone who isn't a melee character, unless they're just OP on a cosmic level like Zodiark
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May 7, 2021 02:52
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Bruceski posted:Ravana and Susano as well. Man, how did I forget the happy sword boys?
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May 7, 2021 02:54
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Cleretic posted:I still think the right thing to do with Zenos isn't for us to dunk on him, it's for somebody else to dunk on him. There's nothing new added to the game's story by having us fight a guy we've kicked the rear end of three times now, but there is value in somebody else doing it. I would accept this, or Feo Ul turning him into a shrubbery.
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May 7, 2021 03:04
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Zenos will defeat the WoL in three forced-loss duties as you level up, and then he'll get really depressed that you still can't beat him after all that build-up and go back to moping in his Boredom Chair while we finish out the rest of the expansion.
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May 7, 2021 03:39
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Fandango will go for the Sudden But Inevitable Betrayal only for Zenos to remind him that being an Anime Himbo gives him plot armor against other villains.
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May 7, 2021 03:44
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MadFriarAvelyn posted:The four lords, while pulled from mythology in every case ever, were also in FFXI, and if you're willing to count SaGa games, Final Fantasy Legends II/SaGa 2. Yeah the XIV Four Lords are definitely based on the XI counterparts, considering that Tenzen plays a big role in their story and Iroha's theme plays in their hideout.
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