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peanut- posted:I read the whole awful thread and not a single one of her suggestions for what the Labour party need is a policy There is a huge chunk of politicians and pundits that lack any ideology or values whatsoever and have wholly confused personal disagreements with political strategy. A lot of these people genuinely believe something like banning Owen Jones from twitter will win back seats to Starmer's labour
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May 7, 2021 11:47
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Never thought I'd say this either but can we please please just fast-forward to the bit where andy burnham is brought in as an actual unifying leader, preferably before the <100 seats returned actual worst election result including 1931 electoral wipeout
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May 7, 2021 11:50
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Did I imagine the 2017 election?! Where Labour under Corbyn did far better than expected and forced the Tories to rule as a minority? How has that just been erased from all discussion about Labour
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May 7, 2021 11:56
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Darth Walrus posted:You watch the Owen Jones doc? The Tories around Hartlepool have been making a convincing, well-evidenced case that they will benefit the material interests of low-income voters by rebuilding public services and investing vast amounts of money in the area, while local Labour has been getting sniffy about 'bribery'. There's a somewhat more nuanced point that there appears to have been a deliberate policy of starving labour councils and heavily funding tory ones without regard to their needs but I guess we'll see how that all works out when there ends up being more tory councils overall. And if the treasury will allow for that rebuilding overall. I guess it's frustrating when a couple of years ago the people now doing this were declaring it as irresponsible "Magic Money Tree" nonsense.
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May 7, 2021 11:57
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minema posted:Did I imagine the 2017 election?! Where Labour under Corbyn did far better than expected and forced the Tories to rule as a minority? How has that just been erased from all discussion about Labour Because Jeremy bin-Corbyn grew a very antisemitic horseradish on his allotment
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May 7, 2021 11:57
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minema posted:Did I imagine the 2017 election?! Where Labour under Corbyn did far better than expected and forced the Tories to rule as a minority? How has that just been erased from all discussion about Labour All of the people with discussion platforms wish it didn't happen.
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May 7, 2021 11:58
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G1mby posted:I guess it's frustrating when a couple of years ago the people now doing this were declaring it as irresponsible "Magic Money Tree" nonsense. The Tories will say whatever is in their political interests at the time. What's insane is that Labour MPs actually believe that poo poo. Labour ran on a pro-austerity platform in 2015 and the Labour right are still saying the same things now while the Tories splash cash everywhere.
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May 7, 2021 12:01
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Rustybear posted:Never thought I'd say this either but can we please please just fast-forward to the bit where andy burnham is brought in as an actual unifying leader, preferably before the <100 seats returned actual worst election result including 1931 electoral wipeout Given all that happened why would you accept any one to the right of Corbyn as leader? They won't actually unify any thing and will be awful politically to boot. Corbyn geniunely was the unifying candidate for older Labour voters, new voters and activists, the unions and solidarity groups who were all happy to work together on the platform of social democracy calling itself socialism (as Labour always has). That was too much for the Labour right wing though who are chasing off all of those groups. namesake fucked around with this message at 12:04 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 12:01
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Peter Mandelson on BBC News saying that the Labour party has lost touch with voters in tHe nOrTh 'not because of class or economic reasons but because of """"social and cultural reasons"""" '. It's a shame to see him not get pressed on what that actually means because I can't see what he's referring to apart from 'they haven't done enough racisms'. Contemptible individual.
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May 7, 2021 12:01
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Rustybear posted:Never thought I'd say this either but can we please please just fast-forward to the bit where andy burnham is brought in as an actual unifying leader, preferably before the <100 seats returned actual worst election result including 1935 electoral wipeout I think it's safe to say that if Burnham is willing to work with the Labour left, the Labour right will not be prepared to work with him. Labour Party unity has some serious paradox of tolerance problems.
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May 7, 2021 12:02
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Jippa posted:I say this pretty much every year but labour should just run with legal weed. There are so many successful working examples of it in north america now that it would just sell itself. Holy poo poo: I thought for sure you folks had that at this point you really are our cultural parent I can't believe this Starmer guy is going to even be allowed to keep his leadership seat. He seems like a massive loving idiot in every regard to your political situation. Is there any hope of the rise of a new Left Party? Also is your population on average older than ours (the US) or the same? I feel like the US and the UK are both hitting a point of critical mass of boomers with dying brains being racist as gently caress with all the money. TulliusCicero fucked around with this message at 12:12 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 12:02
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TulliusCicero posted:Holy poo poo: I thought for sure you folks had that at this point A number of police forces have said they are simply not bothering to prosecute some levels of drug charges, but no the guy who was the chief prosecutor for the blair government which would have banned oxygen if it could have, still thinks it should be illegal, who could have guessed.
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May 7, 2021 12:05
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minema posted:Did I imagine the 2017 election?! Where Labour under Corbyn did far better than expected and forced the Tories to rule as a minority? How has that just been erased from all discussion about Labour Because of the 2019 Election? This line of thought is the same as Mandleson on the radio this morning except he took it all the way back to the last time Labour won an election it was Tony Blair.
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May 7, 2021 12:06
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Aramoro posted:Because of the 2019 Election? This line of thought is the same as Mandleson on the radio this morning except he took it all the way back to the last time Labour won an election it was Tony Blair. But surely it demonstrates that there has recently been a swing to Labour under a left wing leadership so it's not as electorally poisonous as they all say it is?
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May 7, 2021 12:08
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So I'm a bit late to the party on this but... a great victory for anti semitism as great leader kieth foresaw in his visions?
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May 7, 2021 12:09
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The starting position is that left wing = bad, and elements of reality are emphasised or ignored to fit that assumption. People aren't rational, they start with assumptions and work backwards to justify them.
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May 7, 2021 12:09
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TulliusCicero posted:Holy poo poo: I thought for sure you folks had that at this point It's something that Europe as a whole is way behind North America (and South Africa) on:  Any half-decent party could make political capital out of things like armed robberies against people not even involved with growing cannabis as a strong case for a regulated legal market, and every time it's polled it seems to get a majority in support.
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May 7, 2021 12:10
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there seems to be gathering pressure by the media and both major parties to just get super regressive. Like I feel they're going to try going back further than we ever thought. But at the same time the younger people aren't going to suddenly accept it. Like is the plan to just smash both sides of the culture wars together until all the young people act and vote exactly like the old people? Do they think this is going to happen?
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May 7, 2021 12:10
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https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1390621567068119041?s=19 https://twitter.com/SkyNews/status/1390625126887079939?s=19
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May 7, 2021 12:11
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therattle posted:Point 2 isn’t terrible, to be fair. Really if I heard that I'd probably get pissed. Like what relevance does any of that hae to me, sounds like a bunch of right wing talk aimed towards others who already got theirs is how I'd react. When I hear ambition I just hear a rightwinger making up excuses to paint people as lazy.
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May 7, 2021 12:12
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TulliusCicero posted:I can't believe this Keer guy Please, the man’s name is Keith, have some respect
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May 7, 2021 12:12
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I don't get why 'they' (rightists) keep banging on about Keefy getting rid of Momentum. Momentum did bugger all during these campaigns from what I've seen and can't possibly be blamed for flag-shagging by labour going down like a lead balloon? Or am I wrong?
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May 7, 2021 12:14
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Because they hate the left and they obviously aren't going to say that they hosed it entirely of their own volition when they could throw blame at anybody else.
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May 7, 2021 12:16
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They believe that Jon Lansman is the shadowy puppetmaster behind all ills in the Labour Party and also believe that there is nothing problematic about believing things like that.
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May 7, 2021 12:16
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AZ is still something like 70% of the vaccine supply so this feels like just an excuse for further delays as we hit the second doses for where first dose rates hit their peak.
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May 7, 2021 12:19
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This guy won btw. https://twitter.com/HannahAlOthman/status/1389964348102225924
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May 7, 2021 12:21
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Adonis seems to be the first one breaking cover: https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1390625931392344065?s=21
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May 7, 2021 12:21
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Since this is my first post of the day, I feel honour-bound to point out: lolAramoro posted:Because of the 2019 Election? This line of thought is the same as Mandleson on the radio this morning except he took it all the way back to the last time Labour won an election it was Tony Blair. A better comparison would be 2015. It immediately pissed me off in 2019 that everyone was all like "we must remember the lessons of this historic defeat by going back to exactly what caused our last historic defeat" - 2015 was genuinely historic, a governing party has never gained seats like that, it was a shitshow and there were serious lessons to be learned from it. What Labour really should be doing is learning the lessons from all of it: New Labour sold the public a positive vision, which they then instantly betrayed with lovely politics, but the Labour right are just going "remember when we won with lovely politics, we should do lovely politics again", rather than "remember how we got in despite the lovely politics that turned everyone against us". Conversely, more recent elections tell us that good politics are actually quite popular, but that bearded leftists aren't. Starmer had so much goodwill when he got elected on a broadly left-wing set of pledges, if he'd actually done what a lot of people thought he would (Corbynesque policies with an establishment face), he could actually be winning. What he does next will be the real litmus test for whether he actually has any interest in winning or not, imo: if he doesn't get rid of all the loving Mandelsons &c around him, Labour is loving done, and loving useless though he is I don't think he can possible be stupid enough to not notice that.
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May 7, 2021 12:22
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Saros posted:AZ is still something like 70% of the vaccine supply so this feels like just an excuse for further delays as we hit the second doses for where first dose rates hit their peak. I mean you literally cut out the second tweet where they say they don't expect it to delay the vaccine program.
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May 7, 2021 12:24
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Darth Walrus posted:Adonis seems to be the first one breaking cover: lmao that he still can't go one sentence without slobbing tony's knob.
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May 7, 2021 12:24
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Tony Blair has antennae?  
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May 7, 2021 12:25
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Darth Walrus posted:Adonis seems to be the first one breaking cover: While I agree that Starmer has no political skills, I'm not so certain that he lacks antennae. The remote control signal has to come in somehow.
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May 7, 2021 12:26
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Ooh, think this one will hurt: https://twitter.com/stefgotbooted/status/1390592636227145728?s=21 Definitely getting the impression that the sharks are beginning to circle now.
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May 7, 2021 12:28
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blunt posted:I mean you literally cut out the second tweet where they say they don't expect it to delay the vaccine program. Yeah but they would say that anyway. Still I suppose the key bit is "where it will not delay timely administration of doses" so when everyone and their dog starts demanding Pfizer they can just say no. Maybe it's the opposite and they anticipate a supply crunch for AZ because of the state India is in.
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May 7, 2021 12:29
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Darth Walrus posted:Adonis seems to be the first one breaking cover: Lmao "Hey man I supported this guy to only take over temporarily, but this dude is a massive idiot holy gently caress" Also apologies for the disrespect: I will only refer to him as Keith from now on, as befitting
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May 7, 2021 12:29
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Jedit posted:While I agree that Starmer has no political skills, I'm not so certain that he lacks antennae. The remote control signal has to come in somehow.
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May 7, 2021 12:31
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The reason there are so many pictures of him outside with his arm in the air pointing or holding beers is because he needs to do that to get signal.
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May 7, 2021 12:33
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SpaceCommie posted:Zarah Sultana once said she'd celebrate Benjamin Netanyahu's death (and Blair's and Bush's) and supported violent resistance by Palestinians, so if she ever was made leader Labour would go back to being the anti-Semitic party, whilst the Tories continue to provide material support to Erdogan. Never going to happen though, she wouldn't get past the machinery of the party or the votes of the members who haven't left. Also EvilHawk you can absolutely put across your opinion of Corbyn, just be prepared for us to put across ours. You don't wade into a forum called 'Debate & Discussion' and then say you "can't be arsed to argue" when people want to debate and/or discuss the thing you posted. If you make an assertion, you need to provide evidence to back it up. peanut- posted:The most bizarre thing I keep seeing come up again and again from the right is that the wrong Miliband brother won the leadership. And people can argue all they like about the minutiae of who was actually better (out of the two it's Ed by a country mile), but like Owl said: OwlFancier posted:People aren't rational, they start with assumptions and work backwards to justify them. People looked at the photos and decided the David 'looked' more like a PM, whatever the gently caress that means, and centrist journos simply will not admit that they did exactly this with Kieth. They angled for the person who looks like they could play a PM on telly while knowing absolutely nothing about policy or understanding politics at all. And now they're mystified about why the man they thought would be statesmanlike and competent has ruined the party through incompetence. There are far too many centrist opinion havers who have no loving idea what's going on and are writing column after column of consent manufacturing about why everyone should vote for the person they snap judged as looking nice. And when you point out their apparent lack of understanding, they point out their job as a political columnist in a national newspaper. Like their parents getting them the job 40 years ago and being allowed to spout poo poo ever since is evidence they are right, rather than a damning indictment of the entire system. My theory about Kieth though is that he entered politics at a very weird time when the opposition was able to strategically abstain and play about at the amendment stage to make some effective changes to laws that were pretty much inevitable, and he genuinely still thinks that's how it works when opposing a majority. Add this to a party machine that are feeding him bad stats to pull the party to the right and you have starmerism. Darth Walrus posted:The Starmerite branch of the media-political ecosystem are absolutely talking about poor people as if they're thick, and I'm not even talking about the squalling over the current terrible local election results. She's exactly the kind of loving idiot with no political savvy I was talking about. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 12:49 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 12:34
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Mid-30s AZ crew checking in to say I'm not dead yet. I did ask when I was there whether there were alternatives as my 28 year old brother is due in the same centre soon. The Moderna they were expecting was yet to arrive.
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May 7, 2021 12:35
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Important to remember that the stuff Labour MPs are spouting on the news/twitter are the pre-prepared "we lost" lines. Of course they're going to blame Corbyn and the toxic brand and blah blah still climbing the mountain. But the scale of the defeat makes it all blatently untrue even to the most self-deluded. They're saying it because its what they had prepared to say, but it won't be what the PLP are actually thinking. It's obvious to everyone Starmer has done far worse than Corbyn even in 2019. Which is what makes it so delicious. https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1390631947425222660 Some journalists finally starting to break cover with "hang on, this is even worse than Corbyn's low points". jabby fucked around with this message at 12:41 on May 7, 2021 |
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May 7, 2021 12:37
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