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lol starmer and the labour right have spent the last year talking about austerity while the tories have been spending money and promising to invest. genuinely incredible how poo poo they are
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May 8, 2021 11:33
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Just heard Hufflepuff was lost to the conservatives in this election, I'm sorry to hear that.
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May 8, 2021 11:43
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MikeCrotch posted:The problem was assuming this pattern continued, instead the left got high on our own farts (in part because we took the wrong lessons from 2017) and massively underestimated Johnson No, no, no. The political knowledge of the average voter is what was massively overestimated.
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May 8, 2021 11:44
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Grevling posted:Just heard Hufflepuff was lost to the conservatives in this election, I'm sorry to hear that. Fake news. Hufflepuff is actually a safe Lib Dem seat
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May 8, 2021 11:45
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lol at the replies to this https://twitter.com/EnglandFootball/status/1390260670789259273?s=20
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May 8, 2021 11:49
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Communist Thoughts posted:I'm definitely contrarian and amp up my anti corbynism a bit just because some people itt and the UKMT are really ride or die for him still. I might very well be misremembering, but I think I remember you being opposed to that position back in the day? Basically being all for compromise with the right to mollify them, making Corbyn less radical to appease/attract anti-Brexit "Centrists"? It feels less like you being opposed to people being ride or die for Corbyn and more like you not wanting to face having backed an actual losing position, which is the position Corbyn had taken by 2019. If I'm mixing you up with someone else and this is the actual position you're still reacting to I suppose I get it, because some people did go overboard in believing he'd conquer the UK, but I don't think I've seen a single person in this thread taken anywhere close to that position.
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May 8, 2021 12:04
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https://twitter.com/talkRADIO/status/1390710009777041414 Ew
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May 8, 2021 12:12
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Jose posted:lol starmer and the labour right have spent the last year talking about austerity while the tories have been spending money and promising to invest. genuinely incredible how poo poo they are "Labour has to regain its fiscal credibility!  "*Stands on the sideline tut-tutting disapprovingly while Boris doles out cash to the regions*
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May 8, 2021 12:14
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absolute tons of people went hard remain between 2017 and 2019 even though it was the dumbest possible position and any idiot could predict the outcome (i can prove this by having done so, repeatedly) that it would cause a colossal rejection of labour, probably for years if not more so, from anyone who felt their vote was being stolen. talk about fuckin metropolitian divide - i actually live in a red wall marginal leave seat and was an active organizer at the time and i have never, ever seen anyone as angry in my line of work than when they were afraid remain would cheat them somehow. even people who actively regretted their leave vote! similarly there was very obviously no pleasing the ultra remain FBPE contingent - we couldn't have possibly remained hard enough for them shy of straight up cancelling the result, because they allowed themselves to be deluded into thinking that was remotely possible. we capitulated and hey what a shock none of them voted for us. corbyn's biggest mistake was allowing that to fester - we should have taken the L right after the referendum and done what starmer wound up doing - trying to leave on the best possible terms and not burn the loving bridge. but there are people who will still tell you that oh, the membership would have demanded it, oh labour's base would have demanded it. they demanded it because we let the labour right promise them it was possible, and not insane. it was! no moral.
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May 8, 2021 12:16
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oh also, as has come up before, some of you might react with "so you think we should pivot now to get those voters back?" loving nooooooooooope. that's how you lost them, i have no loving clue how you win them back. a party that wound up standing for overturning loving democratic votes and betraying the very foundation of our participatory democracy unsurprisingly is a poor strategy for a political party who relies on votes.
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May 8, 2021 12:19
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They can't build ex-pat pubs in Spain anymore so they are doing this.
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May 8, 2021 12:20
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https://twitter.com/SAMOYEDCORE/status/1390989598621278212?s=19
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May 8, 2021 12:21
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Any hope for a soft Brexit was murdered by Gina miller going to court and making overturning the result possible. Worth remembering she was also more worried by Corbyn than no deal Brexit
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May 8, 2021 12:21
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Is the UK really lacking a sufficient number of pubs for drunk yelling racists?
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May 8, 2021 12:26
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lol there is some poster who hates me and has posted in both qcs and gbs that i'm an insane leave voting tankie
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May 8, 2021 12:27
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https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1390990887103209472?s=20
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May 8, 2021 12:30
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CoolCab posted:absolute tons of people went hard remain between 2017 and 2019 even though it was the dumbest possible position and any idiot could predict the outcome (i can prove this by having done so, repeatedly) that it would cause a colossal rejection of labour, probably for years if not more so, from anyone who felt their vote was being stolen. talk about fuckin metropolitian divide - i actually live in a red wall marginal leave seat and was an active organizer at the time and i have never, ever seen anyone as angry in my line of work than when they were afraid remain would cheat them somehow. even people who actively regretted their leave vote! i agree with much of this post, though i don't think it was a very easy thing to do at the time - corbyn's labour didn't have much ability to set any sort of cultural agenda around brexit, and i really do think that this polarisation would've happened anyway - there were too many interests involved in it. running on overturning a referendum is just bad politics, but it was probably the least damaging thing to do once you're stuck in this protracted parliamentary battle over johnson trying to ram hard brexit through parliament it is worth noting that parliament was very, very close to securing soft brexit during the indicative votes, which would've been a compromise that people might have been willing to accept. the remain project really just went completely insane after 2016 and while i agree that labour should've been vocal about how insane it was, that would've been a very difficult proposition with the chicken coup and all the pressure on the leadership on the issue. longer-term, it's a huge problem that a whole generation of young socialists suddenly think that the EU is good, which is just utterly deranged
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May 8, 2021 12:32
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Jose posted:lol there is some poster who hates me and has posted in both qcs and gbs that i'm an insane leave voting tankie i've posted no such thing
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May 8, 2021 12:32
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Jose posted:Any hope for a soft Brexit was murdered by Gina miller going to court and making overturning the result possible. Worth remembering she was also more worried by Corbyn than no deal Brexit going back to this a soft brexit nearly happened except change uk and the lib dems voted it down chasing that overturning the result option
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May 8, 2021 12:35
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Jose posted:going back to this a soft brexit nearly happened except change uk and the lib dems voted it down chasing that overturning the result option yeah i remember this happening and going a little more insane, they really thought that they were going to overturn brexit and run the #FBPE wave and jo swinson's magnetic charisma to electoral significance loving idiots
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May 8, 2021 12:42
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah i remember this happening and going a little more insane, they really thought that they were going to overturn brexit and run the #FBPE wave and jo swinson's magnetic charisma to electoral significance nuke the squirrels
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May 8, 2021 12:44
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A Buttery Pastry posted:I think you're taking too much UKMT into this thread, and it's probably an overreaction anyway. Like, who is ride or die for Corbyn in this thread? I see people arguing that his policies were popular, not that he was an amazing leader. The most popular position in this thread is in fact highly critical of how he acted as leader, that he was too hung up on being respectful towards people who did not deserve any respect. Hell, that was a criticism of him even when he was apparently doing well, the whole "arm John McDonnell" thing was an obvious call to be far more aggressive. I woulda rejected the calls to arm McDonnell cause I don't like him very much. He immediately pissed away all the lefty economists labour got on board and went with essentially agreeing with George Osborne and completely hamstringing any economic plans labour would have for no reward. It really upset me at the time and I haven't ever really forgiven Corbyns team for it. Not that I think it woulda made a great difference, it's just when it comes to left wing poo poo I'm here for the economics. I deffo backed a losing position of "the Brexit compromise is the best we can do" at the time which was suicide in hindsight but I dunno about the rest
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May 8, 2021 13:06
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V. Illych L. posted:yeah i remember this happening and going a little more insane, they really thought that they were going to overturn brexit and run the #FBPE wave and jo swinson's magnetic charisma to electoral significance Communist Thoughts posted:I woulda rejected the calls to arm McDonnell cause I don't like him very much. You're right though, they should've just treated every politician that didn't get in line with obvious contempt, because that would've resulted in better politics and better optics.
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May 8, 2021 13:11
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They definitely coulda done with appearing stronger, but the only look weaker than Corbyns failed concilliatory approach would have been the Corbyn crew trying to act tough while still getting owned which is basically what's happening to Starmer now so it's a double edged sword. If you're gonna act tough you need to be able to back it up
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May 8, 2021 13:17
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nah communist thoughts is bigly into MMT and alt-economics justifications for policies. iirc the break with the economic advisory comitte or whatever it was called was over, predictably, brexit. iirc piketty decided he had better things to do and blanchflower left during the chicken coup and that was pretty much that
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May 8, 2021 13:17
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I'm also the world's only fan of Richard Murphy (I think, his name is very generic so I get him confused) some accountant dad looking mother fucker who got brought in then wrote a big tell all about how it was a stunt and labour weren't actually interested at all beyond picking various buzzwords to put in the manifesto. Very depressing to read
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May 8, 2021 13:18
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Jeremy Corbyn was an actual human being who also had a pretty clear set of principles. The list of politicians to whom this applies is hauntingly small. Both the British electorate and the Labour leadership rejected this in favor of their choice of ghoul who barely pretend to care about people or principle and are obviously just looking for whatever gets them the most bribes/perks. You can fault him for failing to play the game properly or whatever, but that is more of a statement that the game is awful than that there is anything wrong with him as a person. Dunno if that counts as ride or die, but if it does, I'm fine with being called that.
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May 8, 2021 13:20
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my read was that mcdonnel's policy was all about splashing enough cash to hopefully build a labour majority and then use that to build a bunch of socialist institutions which would be very difficult to remove - e.g. the "workers' right to buy" thing and employee stakeholder policy were big things. as far as i can recall murphy assumed that the people's quantitative easing approach (which i gather you were in favour of?) would be scrapped over inflation worries and to maintain the credibility of the bank of england, though this is all years ago and i am probably mixing stuff up
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May 8, 2021 13:23
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the article from the dude is this one, worth taking with a grain of salt cause hes kinda a melty dude but he seems to be an economic lefty who just wants to end neoliberalism and libertarianism's hold over the UK economy. its also probably the time hes most pissed off with corbyn and he reconciles a little later, though never comes back to advise policy. plus its from 2016 so some stuff may have come back later. https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2016/07/17/the-rise-and-fall-of-corbyns-economics/ quote:
its all gonna be controversial but obviously point 1 is my bugbear that i've rambled on about since it happened. but the third and fourth points are something you do see coming up again and again in critiquies of the corbyn crew by people who worked with them. that they just don't communicate effectively or just straight up blank people and that its more about messaging to the fans than doing things. I think its entirely possible they actually alienated the not insanely hostile chunk of the PLP just by being like this, you got a lot of MPs over time saying theyd gone to the leadership with concerns and got absolute silence back. for me its actually stuff like this i look back on as the failures, not a failure to give "big john" a machine gun and go around slaying blairites, though that woulda been good to watch too
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May 8, 2021 13:36
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MikeCrotch posted:Tbf to Freedland (editor: you do not have to be fair to Jonathan Freedland) Joe Biden seems to be a centrist politician who realised you actually have to look like you're trying to solve people's problems and throw some money at it Biden’s current game plan is to just do whatever has high approval ratings among voters. You want legal cannabis? Done. More Covid relief? Here’s a couple of trillion dollars. This has two effects: 1) Makes the Democrats and Biden popular 2) Forces Republicans to take the unpopular side of every public policy issue Biden’s approval rating among Democrats right now is 98%. Party totally unified.
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May 8, 2021 16:03
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:Biden’s current game plan is to just do whatever has high approval ratings among voters. I don't understand this post op, are you saying it's bad to do what voters want? oliwan has issued a correction as of 16:22 on May 8, 2021 |
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May 8, 2021 16:05
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how do you blow this *this* loving bad holy poo poo the dems could only dream of bungling this bad https://twitter.com/zei_squirrel/status/1390692615339888640
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May 8, 2021 16:08
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Jel Shaker posted:also takes blacks and ethnic minority votes for granted so what's the difference?
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May 8, 2021 16:21
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oliwan posted:I don't understand this post at all, are you saying it's bad to do what voters want? Doing popular things is cheating op. Also lmao at that post.
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May 8, 2021 16:23
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mcdonnells greater crime was when he did that interview with alastair campbell
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May 8, 2021 16:23
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Nieuw Amsterdam posted:Biden’s current game plan is to just do whatever has high approval ratings among voters. Keith just looks at this and goes "That's CHEATING!!!!!!!!!!!  "
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May 8, 2021 16:32
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Wraith of J.O.I. posted:how do you blow this *this* loving bad holy poo poo the dems could only dream of bungling this bad is there any constituency left that keith hasn't managed to alienate by this point?
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May 8, 2021 16:38
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Cerebral Bore posted:is there any constituency left that keith hasn't managed to alienate by this point? Labour did well in Wales, gained a seat even, but I wouldn't credit that to him.
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May 8, 2021 16:39
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am i correct in thinking the labour left deserves this. they had a once in a lifetime opportunity to hijack a major party in a liberal demoracy after the centrists were dumb enough to throw open the doors to the public and they took it with corbyn, and instead of holding firm after the brexit loss and keeping left control of the party they crumbled like morons and voted in someone guaranteed to wreck them
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May 8, 2021 16:51
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do people really say “Boris” or is like a joke name that no one actually uses.
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