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cheetah7071 posted:Gaia resisting Lohgrif does make me wonder how often that happens though. Like Elidibus wakes up Igeyorhm's latest sundered soul and he gets told to gently caress off and he just has to try again with the next one From what we can tell they haven't actually had to awaken sundered souls all that much. Remember that they were legit surprised when we killed Nabriales.
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May 10, 2021 03:10
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cheetah7071 posted:Gaia resisting Lohgrif does make me wonder how often that happens though. Like Elidibus wakes up Igeyorhm's latest sundered soul and he gets told to gently caress off and he just has to try again with the next one Normally they just do it, instead of tormenting them for years until they eventually take control so I imagine it just hasn't come up.
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May 10, 2021 03:23
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Ultimately Gaia has an idea of what an Ascian is that definitely includes herself and I don't know that there's anybody who would know better than she would.
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May 10, 2021 04:06
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Seeing Cleretic try to distance Gaia from the Ascians tracks from her past arguments, at least, since she's established that mass murdering fascists are actually OK if she wants to gently caress them (see: Fordola).
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May 10, 2021 04:06
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Rand Brittain posted:Ultimately Gaia has an idea of what an Ascian is that definitely includes herself and I don't know that there's anybody who would know better than she would. Gaia is simply too stupid to know what an ascian is and calls herself one mistakenly, but uhhhhh is also really cool and emotionally mature at the same time
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May 10, 2021 04:21
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King Cohort posted:Seeing Cleretic try to distance Gaia from the Ascians tracks from her past arguments, at least, since she's established that mass murdering fascists are actually OK if she wants to gently caress them (see: Fordola). I don't think Fordola was ever given a rank high enough to be guilty of mass murder, although she's definitely done some pretty awful stuff. And even if she was, I think the only mass murder that went on in Gyr Abania over the story was Zenos' doing. She's also, crucially, actually acting to in some way redeem herself, which is not true of most horrible people in the game. Also I don't want to gently caress Fordola, she scares me. I'm just okay with her as a possible romantic option for into-women WoLs because A: we are in a major dearth of those, and B: judging by the male options, war crimes don't take you off the table. Friendly advice: next time you make that argument, go for Ysayle.
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May 10, 2021 04:23
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I hope Ryne and Gaia aren't written out of the story forever
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May 10, 2021 04:24
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cheetah7071 posted:I hope Ryne and Gaia aren't written out of the story forever I really doubt they will be. I'm sure they'll find excuses to use The First again especially post-Endwalker. Cleretic posted:I don't think Fordola was ever given a rank high enough to be guilty of mass murder, although she's definitely done some pretty awful stuff. And even if she was, I think the only mass murder that went on in Gyr Abania over the story was Zenos' doing. She's also, crucially, actually acting to in some way redeem herself, which is not true of most horrible people in the game. Fordola is literally responsible for a horrific mass murder event. It is a major significant part of her plot.
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May 10, 2021 04:26
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ImpAtom posted:Fordola is literally responsible for a horrific mass murder event. It is a major significant part of her plot. My bad then, I forgot that part. Weirdly, for all the poo poo I give the Doman side of Stormblood for being basically nothing, I do remember a higher percentage of it.
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May 10, 2021 04:28
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See, in my book, you can just say, "Gaia is someone else now and trying to do better," and leave it at that. But because some people have no chill, we have to somehow connect her past life as being complicit with genocide, and THEN do the mental gymnastics to absolve it. It's such an overly-wrought exercise in fiction.cheetah7071 posted:I hope Ryne and Gaia aren't written out of the story forever Ryne honestly deserves better, and they are doing that thing where they just date the first lesbian nearby because of a lack of options. I hope they break up amicably and Ryne finds herself a nice loving catgirl or something instead. Gaia can sulk about it for all I care.
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May 10, 2021 04:29
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Cleretic posted:I don't think Fordola was ever given a rank high enough to be guilty of mass murder, although she's definitely done some pretty awful stuff. And even if she was, I think the only mass murder that went on in Gyr Abania over the story was Zenos' doing. She's also, crucially, actually acting to in some way redeem herself, which is not true of most horrible people in the game. She reached the rank of Rem, the fourth highest military rank, marking her the leader of a cohort. There were only a handful of people above her, and she got that rank due to an impressively high body count.
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May 10, 2021 04:30
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There's a huge cutscene and story beat about Alphinaud being absolutely disgusted with the evil tactics she decides to use and the ones she's complicit in. She's the Big War Crime lady and the game is not subtle about it....if you actually read whats written. She even brings it up later saying she is the one who gave the order to fire even if it didn't start as her idea. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 04:40 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 04:37
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Out of all the characters they could have held over from Stormblood, Fordola is the last I would have picked. She is right up there with Gaius for me as characters I want to choke on a fish bone and die unceremoniously off-screen already. Out of sight and out of mind. I'm not even touching the notion of Fordola as a lesbian romance option and how much that makes my skin crawl.
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May 10, 2021 05:03
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:She even brings it up later saying she is the one who gave the order to fire even if it didn't start as her idea. Yeah, I remembered this part, but not really the specifics. Just the generalities of 'did war crimes, feels bad about it, working on repentance'. That's my bad. Doesn't change that the last parts do put her above most of the other war criminals we've got hanging around, and we seem to give them passes if people want to smooch them. Why not give Fordola the same treatment?
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May 10, 2021 05:04
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Cleretic posted:Yeah, I remembered this part, but not really the specifics. Just the generalities of 'did war crimes, feels bad about it, working on repentance'. That's my bad. I literally can not think of a war criminal on 'our side' who is not either dead or actively working towards redemption. Maybe one of the lovely Ul'dah lalafells?
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May 10, 2021 05:10
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ImpAtom posted:I literally can not think of a war criminal on 'our side' who is not either dead or actively working towards redemption. Maybe one of the lovely Ul'dah lalafells?
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May 10, 2021 05:12
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ImpAtom posted:I literally can not think of a war criminal on 'our side' who is not either dead or actively working towards redemption. Maybe one of the lovely Ul'dah lalafells? I mean Emet and Zenos. BIG 'wanna smooch' energy on both of those in the playerbase, despite both of them being very happy to wipe out an entire nation. Or more, in Emet's case. So who are we to say that's okay, but not Fordola, who at least feels bad about it? In terms of actual canon, yeah, Estinien's the closest. But I've always felt like his actions were totally valid war-waging on pretenses he learned were false, which is different. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 05:16 on May 10, 2021 |
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May 10, 2021 05:13
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Cleretic posted:I mean Emet and Zenos. BIG 'wanna smooch' energy on both of those in the playerbase, despite both of them being very happy to wipe out an entire nation. We murdered both of those characters and presumably are going to murder Zenos again.
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May 10, 2021 05:15
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Cleretic posted:I mean Emet and Zenos. BIG 'wanna smooch' energy on both of those in the playerbase, despite both of them being very happy to wipe out an entire nation. "Why can't we stan girlboss war criminals too?" is really not a great angle. Now I'm not telling you not to have a thing for Fordola. Nor do you need to validate/justify your problematic romance headcanon. It's your fantasy. You don't need our permission.
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May 10, 2021 05:19
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most of those people find those characters sexy because they're evil. fordola is a lame flip-flopper and thats why people are awoogaing over the 9 foot tall resident evil lady instead of her
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May 10, 2021 05:27
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YES bread posted:most of those people find those characters sexy because they're evil. fordola is a lame flip-flopper and thats why people are awoogaing over the 9 foot tall resident evil lady instead of her Absolutely.
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May 10, 2021 05:31
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Sherry Bahm posted:"Why can't we stan girlboss war criminals too?" is really not a great angle. Hey, I didn't come up with it, and as I said, Fordola scares me and I'm not interested. But it's come up before here, I'm not the only supporter, and we are DESPERATELY in need of women to ship the WoL with. It's pretty much Y'shtola and maybe Merlwyb. We need to add Fordola just to make up the numbers! If that means brushing aside war crimes, well, the Zenos and Emet stans have done it much harder anyway! Now if we're talking MY tastes, I'm into Ysayle, which is an entirely different but equally imposing pile of problems. (EDIT: although at least crystal mom approves of her, so that's something)
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May 10, 2021 05:36
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if you fantasia to lalafell its Okay and Woke to kiss tataru
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May 10, 2021 05:44
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Fordola discourse is gonna get real heated once she joins the main cast in Endwalker
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May 10, 2021 05:45
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Yugiri and Lyse and Lucia don't exist?
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May 10, 2021 05:47
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Regy Rusty posted:Fordola discourse is gonna get real heated once she joins the main cast in Endwalker
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May 10, 2021 05:47
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SirSamVimes posted:Yugiri and Lyse and Lucia don't exist? Yugiri's a bit dull, and we might be contending with Hien (as I've mentioned before, I don't want to be competing with Hien, he performs his own state-sanctioned executions and that's a bit too hardcore for me). Also she spends all her time in Doma, and I don't want the WoL being that 'I have a girlfriend but she lives in Japan so you can't meet her' sort. Lucia is obviously with Aymeric, I feel like she's not even in contention for most people. And... I dunno why exactly Lyse isn't on the table, but she hasn't been.
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May 10, 2021 05:55
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Cleretic posted:Hey, I didn't come up with it, and as I said, Fordola scares me and I'm not interested. But it's come up before here, I'm not the only supporter, and we are DESPERATELY in need of women to ship the WoL with. It's pretty much Y'shtola and maybe Merlwyb. We need to add Fordola just to make up the numbers! If that means brushing aside war crimes, well, the Zenos and Emet stans have done it much harder anyway! Cleretic posted:Yugiri's a bit dull, and we might be contending with Hien (as I've mentioned before, I don't want to be competing with Hien, he performs his own state-sanctioned executions and that's a bit too hardcore for me). Also she spends all her time in Doma, and I don't want the WoL being that 'I have a girlfriend but she lives in Japan so you can't meet her' sort. You've clearly spent a lot of time on your romantic headcanons. And while it's cute that you have all these justifications for the who's and why's of lesbian romance eligibility, it's all once again, your fantasy. You and anyone else can ship their WoL with whoever you want to. Lyse, Jessie, Sadu, Yugiri, Lucia. Ship your WoL to any and all of them! Simultaneously even! All with the power of your IMAGINATION! 
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May 10, 2021 05:59
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damnit we've established this already, aymeric is with me
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May 10, 2021 06:02
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Dibs on Tiamat
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May 10, 2021 06:06
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My WoL is volcel.
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May 10, 2021 06:12
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Ibram Gaunt posted:My WoL is volcel. same the only thing my wol wants to kiss is new tomestone
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May 10, 2021 06:20
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Ibram Gaunt posted:My WoL is volcel. There will be time for dating when I'm done fighting. *punches fist into hand* And I will never be done fighting.
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May 10, 2021 06:22
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Zutaten posted:There will be time for dating when I'm done fighting. *punches fist into hand* And I will never be done fighting. But what will you do when all the things have been punched?
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May 10, 2021 06:28
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Sherry Bahm posted:But what will you do when all the things have been punched? Create an expansionist empire and teach the neighboring tribes how to summon primals.
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May 10, 2021 06:29
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Create an expansionist empire and teach the neighboring tribes how to summon primals. Ah, "paying it forward", as they say.
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May 10, 2021 06:31
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Create an expansionist empire and teach the neighboring tribes how to summon primals.
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May 10, 2021 06:38
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Cleretic posted:Yugiri's a bit dull, and we might be contending with Hien (as I've mentioned before, I don't want to be competing with Hien, he performs his own state-sanctioned executions and that's a bit too hardcore for me). Also she spends all her time in Doma, and I don't want the WoL being that 'I have a girlfriend but she lives in Japan so you can't meet her' sort. I mean if you don't like the options that's fine, but that's very different to options not existing. I do agree with you that there is a lot better pickings as far as husbands go, though.
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May 10, 2021 07:36
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Endorph posted:In Eorzea, the beast tribes often summon gods to fight in their stead. I think your comrades should respond in kind - which isn't strange, is it? Your Gods aren't otherwise engaged. I was given to understand they were your protectors. If you truly believe them to be your guardians, why not repeat the trick that served us so well at Carteneau, and call them down? They will answer - so long as you lavish them on crystals and gorge them on aether. Pretty sure Azemya showed up to kick Gaius' arse, though. 
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May 10, 2021 08:27
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I wonder why that when conversations about awful crimes against humanity crop up, no one ever mentions Cylva. She was unfortunately pressed into a role she didn't want (much like Fordola) yet she was successful in killing roughly 80% of a planet's population via the Flood. The narrative and the characters all seem pretty cool with the fact that she's partially responsible for a lot of sorrow, but compared to Fordola and Yotsuyu, she barely catches any smoke from the fanbase.
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May 10, 2021 11:34
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