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Should troll Fancy Pelosi be allowed to stay? This poll is closed. |
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| No |
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Epic High Five posted:Gun violence is a public health issue, and the public health response is clear - an absolute and total abolition of handguns without a single exception for anybody or any reason. Arguing anything else is just unserious unless it's about enforcement after the fact I think that is a good start tbh. Can you tell me why any individual citizen needs an Assault rifle?
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May 12, 2021 04:36
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TulliusCicero posted:I think that is a good start tbh. Can you tell me why any individual citizen needs an Assault rifle? Can you read?
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May 12, 2021 04:36
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Huego posted:"I'd personally be willing to support the thing that benefits you, but only after the thing that benefits me. I've never been in any mortal danger and cops call me 'sir' when they pull me over for having too many amiibos hanging from my rear view mirror." Yeah you're right, nonwhites are notoriously well-treated by the US health system, good point
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May 12, 2021 04:37
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Yeah you're right, nonwhites are notoriously well-treated by the US health system, good point Also notoriously well-treated by white men telling them to wait their turn.
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May 12, 2021 04:38
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Huego posted:Can you read? I agree with the idea of banning hand guns? I think that's what they are saying? Is that what they are saying? I don't even know anymore.  I also think guns pretty much besides like hunting rifles should be banned tbh.
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May 12, 2021 04:38
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TulliusCicero posted:I agree with the idea of banning hand guns? I think that's what they are saying? Then what was with the pissy little gotcha question about assault weapons?] Lol let's make sure white men's favorite guns aren't banned, nothing must ever endanger White Hobbies. Bow hunting doesn't make your dick bigger.
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May 12, 2021 04:39
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Huego posted:Then what was with the pissy little gotcha question about assault weapons?] I have never even hunted, nor do I own a gun. I'm just going by like the laws in Australia and like Canada, which seems like a compromise that's at least somewhat possible if highly unlikely. I'm not sure why you are going after me so hard? I would ban all guns if I thought it was possible.
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May 12, 2021 04:43
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Huego posted:Then what was with the pissy little gotcha question about assault weapons?] i think the point of the question about assault rifles was that nobody needs an assault rifle
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May 12, 2021 04:44
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James Garfield posted:i think the point of the question about assault rifles was that nobody needs an assault rifle  ^This one gets it:
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May 12, 2021 04:45
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TulliusCicero posted:I think that is a good start tbh. Can you tell me why any individual citizen needs an Assault rifle? Statistically, they're irrelevant. Under 500 people a year are murdered with rifles compared to over 7,000 with handguns. Barely more than shotguns whose primary function as you said you'd support is hunting and recreation. Additionally, the most high profile stuff attributed to rifles is done by people like affluent boomer militia types and Paddocks who would not be stopped by any additional cost and likely any actual law with even a single loophole. If you're worried about gun violence there really is a big single thing everybody should be focusing on. A rifle ban would be less of a net good for public health than a swimming pool ban. We need to move away from legislating from opinion and reaction
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May 12, 2021 04:46
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Epic High Five posted:Statistically, they're irrelevant. Under 500 people a year are murdered with rifles compared to over 7,000 with handguns. Barely more than shotguns whose primary function as you said you'd support is hunting and recreation. Additionally, the most high profile stuff attributed to rifles is done by people like affluent boomer militia types and Paddocks who would not be stopped by any additional cost and likely any actual law with even a single loophole. That's still 500 people who aren't gun murdered a year, though?
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May 12, 2021 04:47
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TulliusCicero posted:I have never even hunted, nor do I own a gun. I'm just going by like the laws in Australia and like Canada, which seems like a compromise that's at least somewhat possible if highly unlikely. I had a cop's gun in my face today so I'm cranky. Yes. Ban all guns and anyone who doesn't like it can eat one. The thing about "possible" is we don't have to pick and choose between gun control and other dramatic quality of life improvements like UHC. A country with the political will to do one can do the other. "Choose" and "wait your turn" and "one thing at a time" are all stalling tactics by people who don't ever want better things to become possible.
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May 12, 2021 04:47
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Epic High Five posted:Statistically, they're irrelevant. Under 500 people a year are murdered with rifles compared to over 7,000 with handguns. Barely more than shotguns whose primary function as you said you'd support is hunting and recreation. Additionally, the most high profile stuff attributed to rifles is done by people like affluent boomer militia types and Paddocks who would not be stopped by any additional cost and likely any actual law with even a single loophole. Statistically you're irrelevant, does that make it ok to shoot you? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 12, 2021 04:48
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Herstory Begins Now posted:That's still 500 people who aren't gun murdered a year, though? Yep, but as I brought up, even hunting intended firearms are responsible for almost as much but people seem to be happy to exempt them, so it's not the net loss of human life that they are being discussed alongside the elephant in the room Huego posted:Statistically you're irrelevant, does that make it ok to shoot you? Opinion and reaction, a lot of people are really quick to acknowledge that it is a public health concern while rejecting public health analysis and solutions. If you want to make it a moral thing that is also inconsistent, just say so. That's been the status quo so far and it's what has gotten us to this point.
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May 12, 2021 04:48
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Epic High Five posted:Yep, but as I brought up, even hunting intended firearms are responsible for almost as much but people seem to be happy to exempt them, so it's not the net loss of human life that they are being discussed alongside the elephant in the room I only saw a single person make a comment about exempting hunting rifles
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May 12, 2021 04:50
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Epic High Five posted:Opinion and reaction, a lot of people are really quick to acknowledge that it is a public health concern while rejecting public health analysis and solutions. If you want to make it a moral thing that is also inconsistent, just say so. That's been the status quo so far and it's what has gotten us to this point. Friend are you calm-hitlering me about gun murder. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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May 12, 2021 04:52
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Huego posted:I had a cop's gun in my face today so I'm cranky. Yes. Ban all guns and anyone who doesn't like it can eat one. Hey that is horrible and sucks that happened to you  : genuinely hope you are safe and with people you trustEpic High Five posted:Statistically, they're irrelevant. Under 500 people a year are murdered with rifles compared to over 7,000 with handguns. Barely more than shotguns whose primary function as you said you'd support is hunting and recreation. Additionally, the most high profile stuff attributed to rifles is done by people like affluent boomer militia types and Paddocks who would not be stopped by any additional cost and likely any actual law with even a single loophole. People's lives aren't irrelevant, no matter how "low the number" If you can prevent deaths you can prevent deaths. Also you still haven't answered the question: why should I, a common citizen own an assault rifle? What greater good does it serve to me or society that I would have one?
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May 12, 2021 04:53
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Love too narrowly escape becoming a hashtag only to log onto the world wide web and have a white man tell me I'm too emotional about wanting to end gun violence.TulliusCicero posted:Hey that is horrible and sucks that happened to you TulliusCicero posted:People's lives aren't irrelevant, no matter how "low the number"
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May 12, 2021 04:53
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I think some of you need to take a minute to cool off and step back from the edge before this conversation heats up enough that buttons are forced to be deployed.
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May 12, 2021 04:55
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I think a state where most guns are banned but people can have (regulated) guns for hunting and range shooting makes a lot more sense than a state where most guns are banned but you can have an AR for some reason.
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May 12, 2021 04:58
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James Garfield posted:I think a state where most guns are banned but people can have (regulated) guns for hunting and range shooting makes a lot more sense than a state where most guns are banned but you can have an AR for some reason. right, we can pretty much borrow the same licensing and taxation scheme we use for vehicles, except better than that, because that system is also pretty bad in america compared to other, saner places
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May 12, 2021 04:59
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James Garfield posted:I think a state where most guns are banned but people can have (regulated) guns for hunting and range shooting makes a lot more sense than a state where most guns are banned but you can have an AR for some reason. Why is that the conversation though. Why is it so necessary that we do an incomplete job of this obviously good thing with zero drawbacks besides "the worst people in our society won't like it." Do we debate UHC by first agreeing that obviously anything that happens to the left side of your body won't be covered.
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May 12, 2021 05:00
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Herstory Begins Now posted:I only saw a single person make a comment about exempting hunting rifles And they're free to respond, but allowing for birding shotguns and bolt actions is the #1 go to for the gun control crowd to make it seem like they're being reasonable while calling for abolition of guns that kill just as many. It's not at all uncommon to run into, and this particular strategy was also present in leftist platforms like Bernie's where it was no more correct American gun culture is super hosed up to the point that it's in the minds of everybody here. Banning handguns without exception and addressing poverty through whatever means available is the best route to maximizing the number of lives saved every year TulliusCicero posted:If you can prevent deaths you can prevent deaths. Also you still haven't answered the question: why should I, a common citizen own an assault rifle? What greater good does it serve to me or society that I would have one? I don't see why what individuals want or feel they deserve should come into it at all, on either side. Hence my preface of insisting on public health solutions, aka treating it as a public health issue, aka epidemiology and identifying the clusters of causation and crushing them. Once ARs kill as many people a year as handguns it'd be obvious they should be snatched and banned first instead I'll stop now though because the warning has been issued and I'm the minority opinion here and I'd rather be able to post in the morning
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May 12, 2021 05:00
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Epic High Five posted:And they're free to respond, but allowing for birding shotguns and bolt actions is the #1 go to for the gun control crowd to make it seem like they're being reasonable while calling for abolition of guns that kill just as many. It's not at all uncommon to run into, and this particular strategy was also present in leftist platforms like Bernie's where it was no more correct I can see, in all sincerity, how intoxicating it must be to imagine yourself the arbiter of justice, deciding whose life is worth saving and whose life isn't. But that's not actually your job, and you don't seem to be particularly qualified for it. Someone murdered with a rifle is just as dead as someone murdered with a handgun. You have a lot to say about "logic" but there's nothing logically inconsistent in "I think all instances of the bad thing should be prevented." When legislators set down laws about choking hazards for kids they didn't carve out an exception for choking hazards that happen in the woods. It's not "all infant pajamas have to be non-flammable except for the ones with camo print on them." Do the whole job. Stop me if you've heard this one, but all lives actually do matter. Huego fucked around with this message at 05:10 on May 12, 2021 |
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May 12, 2021 05:03
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Sorry to derail a bit here, but given the USA's utterly insane (imo) gun culture, why the hell are we not performing better in the Olympics? The last time we won the most medals/golds in shooting was 1984. It's not even just China that is beating us. We're actively in competition with Italy, Germany, and Russia. Anyone follow the sport more and have a good idea why this stuff isn't translating well into performance in the Olympics?
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May 12, 2021 05:15
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Gentleman Baller posted:Sorry to derail a bit here, but given the USA's utterly insane (imo) gun culture, why the hell are we not performing better in the Olympics? The last time we won the most medals/golds in shooting was 1984. The best US shooters are dead or in prison But seriously its just there isn't a culture of gun mastery in the US, just ownership
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May 12, 2021 05:16
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Gentleman Baller posted:Sorry to derail a bit here, but given the USA's utterly insane (imo) gun culture, why the hell are we not performing better in the Olympics? The last time we won the most medals/golds in shooting was 1984. Shooting in the Olympics uses baby calibers and 99% of super huge gun people/hoarders don't actually maintain or learn to shoot the ones they do own, none of which are in 22lr. Also Oly shooting typically comes after a whole boatload of cardio which, lmao. Anyway pretty much every oly sport is actually gatekept by wealth more than anything else at this point and domestic pro sports aren't far behind edit - oh and the olympic rifles used for shooting aren't actually that fun to shoot and cost as much as 10 decent ARs
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May 12, 2021 05:17
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Gentleman Baller posted:Sorry to derail a bit here, but given the USA's utterly insane (imo) gun culture, why the hell are we not performing better in the Olympics? The last time we won the most medals/golds in shooting was 1984. To toss a guess out I'd say the people that really want to compete in shooting in the USA might be scaring off the people who actually have a talent for sharpshooting? Pistol shooting competitions are pretty chuddy, if I'm remembering right.
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May 12, 2021 05:17
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Epic High Five posted:Shooting in the Olympics uses baby calibers and 99% of super huge gun people/hoarders don't actually maintain or learn to shoot the ones they do own, none of which are in 22lr. Also Oly shooting typically comes after a whole boatload of cardio which, lmao. Anyway pretty much every oly sport is actually gatekept by wealth more than anything else at this point and domestic pro sports aren't far behind I literally know nothing about this sport - what kind of cardio? Do you carry your gun while you do it? Has anybody ever been murdered with one of those guns outside of like a British TV show where everyone wears damp sweaters?
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May 12, 2021 05:22
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Gentleman Baller posted:Sorry to derail a bit here, but given the USA's utterly insane (imo) gun culture, why the hell are we not performing better in the Olympics? The last time we won the most medals/golds in shooting was 1984. Americans love guns because they grant anyone the power to murder large numbers of people without needing skill or any serious investment of time or effort. Doing something with guns that’s hard or that you have to get good at defeats the entire purpose.
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May 12, 2021 05:22
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Gentleman Baller posted:Sorry to derail a bit here, but given the USA's utterly insane (imo) gun culture, why the hell are we not performing better in the Olympics? The last time we won the most medals/golds in shooting was 1984. Olympic shooting is like dressage- there are a bunch more horses in the US too, but in both cases the culture isn't self-selected to only appeal to useless monied idiots who can practice 40 hours a week.
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May 12, 2021 05:23
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Huego posted:I had a cop's gun in my face today so I'm cranky. Yes. Ban all guns and anyone who doesn't like it can eat one. You're completely right, we don't have to pick and choose. I just think it's loving weird and telling when you see some posters suddenly adopt a strident abolitionist tone on guns and guns only, despite eschewing this kind of thinking in basically every other area in favor of vague lullabies about the progressive direction of society or whatever the gently caress eventually taking care of problems on its own. That doesn't seem to describe you so all I can really say is the original bit wasn't directed at you I'm sorry a cop did that to you and I'm glad you're okay. poo poo is terrifying
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May 12, 2021 05:25
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Bishyaler posted:Wishing that the US was Australia in culture, gun or otherwise does not make it so. i agree, the united states has never shown the popular support for socialist policies on levels approaching the rest of the globe. things like medicare for all will never be a fit for american culture and it's pointless to point to other developed countries as an example
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May 12, 2021 05:25
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Huego posted:I literally know nothing about this sport - what kind of cardio? Do you carry your gun while you do it? My knowledge is not exact but its either the bi or triathalon that has you do it after one or both of a brutal swim and a brutal bike ride. The goal is to truly test your skill by making you exhausted beforehand. The guns themselves are built for the athlete in question, use a special grade of 22lr, and the penalties for missing are brutal. Basically zero intersection with US gun culture unless you're training as a sniper If there is traditional shooting sports they are probably similar but minus the cardio element. I'll admit that I find archery to be the more interesting shooting sport
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May 12, 2021 05:26
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Think you might be conflating the triathlon, which is swimming, biking and running in succession (but no shooting at all), and the biathlon, which is skiing broken up by a series of shooting ranges.
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May 12, 2021 05:30
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ninjahedgehog posted:Think you might be conflating the triathlon, which is swimming, biking and running in succession (but no shooting at all), and the biathlon, which is skiing broken up by a series of shooting ranges. Yeah sorry, I'm looking into it more now for exact details, was posting on my phone as my dog has decided (incorrectly) that midnight is also a time we go out every day. I know the details of the shooting but not really the events because I've never watched them
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May 12, 2021 05:31
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Huego posted:I literally know nothing about this sport - what kind of cardio? Do you carry your gun while you do it?
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May 12, 2021 05:32
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Foxfire_ posted:Biathalon is a cross country ski race where you carry a rifle, then periodically have to stop and shoot some targets with extra penalty distance added for each one you miss. I thought it was speed dating ladies and dudes but I guess that's just me.
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May 12, 2021 05:34
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ninjahedgehog posted:Think you might be conflating the triathlon, which is swimming, biking and running in succession (but no shooting at all), and the biathlon, which is skiing broken up by a series of shooting ranges. what Foxfire_ posted:Biathalon is a cross country ski race where you carry a rifle, then periodically have to stop and shoot some targets with extra penalty distance added for each one you miss. what
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May 12, 2021 05:37
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Thanks for the responses, man that's loving dour though. 
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May 12, 2021 05:37
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