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Oracle posted:WHO CLOSED THE DOORS BEHIND HIM There's like a giant squid thing in the lake in front of the door.
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May 10, 2021 19:48
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Alhazred posted:There's like a giant squid thing in the lake in front of the door. It's not so good at closing the doors though. In fact it's so clumsy that it destroys the doors trying to politely close them behind the Fellowship.
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May 10, 2021 19:54
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Ginette Reno posted:It's not so good at closing the doors though. In fact it's so clumsy that it destroys the doors trying to politely close them behind the Fellowship. He’s just mad because they left his doors open
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May 10, 2021 19:56
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that password is really lovely infosec, good job elves as usual
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May 10, 2021 20:20
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Leave it to JRRT to make that whole plot point hinge on a piece of grammar/translation trivia
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May 10, 2021 20:24
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Ginette Reno posted:It's not so good at closing the doors though. In fact it's so clumsy that it destroys the doors trying to politely close them behind the Fellowship. The doors are pretty loving closed now though.
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May 10, 2021 20:27
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The balrog blamed the fellowship for wrecking his back door, it was self defense
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May 10, 2021 20:34
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the cavern doctrine
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May 10, 2021 20:36
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Alhazred posted:The doors are pretty loving closed now though. only for as long as it takes to move the rubble, at least they are easy to find now
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May 10, 2021 20:55
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Data Graham posted:Leave it to JRRT to make that whole plot point hinge on a piece of grammar/translation trivia Yeah this gets misunderstood a lot (not helped by the movie which changed it or at least made it unclear): it isn't a secret password at all, Gandalf just made a translation error. "Mellon" isn't the key, it's the doorknob.
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May 10, 2021 21:26
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eonwe posted:that password is really lovely infosec, good job elves as usual Hey it kept the most powerful wizard and emissary of the gods currently walking Middle-Earth out for HOURS. (of course that's because he was too drat paranoid for his own good and the doors were more to keep out wildlife than enemies. 'It was a simpler time' and all).
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May 10, 2021 21:47
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Oracle posted:WHO CLOSED THE DOORS BEHIND HIM A wizard did it
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May 11, 2021 07:56
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eonwe posted:the real question is would it have flown back to it's dungeon or walked what if, just a crazy thought, but bear with me, what if Frodo flew to Mt Doom on the Balrog's back?
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May 12, 2021 05:36
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Omnomnomnivore posted:Yeah this gets misunderstood a lot (not helped by the movie which changed it or at least made it unclear): it isn't a secret password at all, Gandalf just made a translation error. "Mellon" isn't the key, it's the doorknob. It's not even necessarily an error, if he had just read the inscription out loud the doors would have opened. But he had to show off his mad Elvish skillz...
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May 12, 2021 05:38
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Zopotantor posted:It's not even necessarily an error, if he had just read the inscription out loud the doors would have opened. But he had to show off his mad Elvish skillz... Maybe Celebrimbor was contemptuous of the Dwarves writing the password on the door, and that's why he wrote Moria ("Black/Evil Pit") on the doors before the Balrog showed up.
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May 12, 2021 06:12
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I like the moment when Gimli and Legolas realize that a dwarf and an elf built the door together. Then they start arguing about who's fault it is that they stopped being allies.
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May 12, 2021 07:27
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Zopotantor posted:what if, just a crazy thought, but bear with me, what if Frodo flew to Mt Doom on the Balrog's back? why not on gandalf's back
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May 12, 2021 10:14
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Zopotantor posted:what if, just a crazy thought, but bear with me, what if Frodo flew to Mt Doom on the Balrog's back? Can't fly if you don't have wings.
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May 12, 2021 11:26
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Oh what shall we do with the funny little things?
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May 12, 2021 12:38
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Bongo Bill posted:In my imagination, the two blue wizards were exactly the Blues Brothers. Reaching back over twenty pages and three months to applaud this
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May 12, 2021 23:57
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Would the goblins and the Balrog had found the Fellowship if Pippin hadn't dropped the stone down the well? You can chalk this up to the way the movies portrayed it, but I just re-read A Journey in the Dark and the sequence of events still works. I always interpreted it that if the Fellowship had stayed quiet they would have made it through Moria without incident.
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May 13, 2021 02:52
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FBS posted:Would the goblins and the Balrog had found the Fellowship if Pippin hadn't dropped the stone down the well? If the orcs hadn’t attacked them in the chamber of Mazarbul then they would have taken the main path down from the upper levels and gotten blocked off from the exit by the giant burning fissure right before the bridge and would have had to turn around and find some other way. Also Gollum might have ratted them out to the orcs anyway. We know he was following them before any Tookish foolery took place
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May 13, 2021 03:38
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skasion posted:If the orcs hadn’t attacked them in the chamber of Mazarbul then they would have taken the main path down from the upper levels and gotten blocked off from the exit by the giant burning fissure right before the bridge and would have had to turn around and find some other way. I always assumed the burning fissure was set up as part of the attack at Mazarbul, but the Fellowship just found another way out. Never considered the fissure being a preexisting trap they set up years ago. quote:Also Gollum might have ratted them out to the orcs anyway. We know he was following them before any Tookish foolery took place That's definitely something he would do. Had Gollum been through Moria before?
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May 13, 2021 03:47
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skasion posted:Also Gollum might have ratted them out to the orcs anyway. We know he was following them before any Tookish foolery took place I dunno about that. At least not intentionally. He didn't want anyone but himself to get the ring.
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May 13, 2021 03:52
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FBS posted:I always assumed the burning fissure was set up as part of the attack at Mazarbul, but the Fellowship just found another way out. Never considered the fissure being a preexisting trap they set up years ago. Gollum was trying to find his way out of Moria when he stumbled across the fellowship, I believe. Tolkien talks about it in Unfinished Tales. quote:He hid himself in Moria. What happened then to Gollum cannot of course be known for certain. No doubt he had intended to use Moria simply as a secret passage westward, his purpose being to find 'Shire' himself as quickly as he could; but he became lost, and it was a very long time before he found his way about. He knew nothing about the action of the doors. It was thus a piece of singular good fortune for Gollum that the Nine Walkers arrived when they did.
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May 13, 2021 05:56
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FBS posted:That's definitely something he would do. No, I agree with Ginette Reno he 100% wouldn't. Orcses would take the Precious. If he could figure out a way to lure Frodo away and then get the rest of the Fellowship murked he would, but. well, good luck with that, and he's already had unpleasant enough encounters with Aragorn and Gandalf that he'd be very cautious about tangling with them. FBS posted:I always assumed the burning fissure was set up as part of the attack at Mazarbul, but the Fellowship just found another way out. Never considered the fissure being a preexisting trap they set up years ago. I thought the Book of Mazarbul mentioned it, but I went back to check and there's nothing: quote:We cannot get out. They have taken the Bridge and second hall. Frár and Lóni and Náli fell there. The symbolism of trapped by fire at one end of Moria and water at the other is nice though. Runcible Cat fucked around with this message at 10:33 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 09:22
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The orcs would kill the others, Frodo would escape and then Gollum could track him one on one
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May 13, 2021 11:35
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MadDogMike posted:Maybe Celebrimbor was contemptuous of the Dwarves writing the password on the door, and that's why he wrote Moria ("Black/Evil Pit") on the doors before the Balrog showed up. You absolute fucker why did you point this out lmao. I'll never enjoy Tolkien again now.
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May 14, 2021 04:07
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SeductiveReasoning posted:You absolute fucker why did you point this out lmao. I'll never enjoy Tolkien again now. Maybe Gandalf was just translating on the fly and knew noone would know what he was talking about if he called it like, Hadhodrond.
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May 14, 2021 04:39
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Oracle posted:Maybe Gandalf was just translating on the fly and knew noone would know what he was talking about if he called it like, Hadhodrond. No such luck, the inscription as Tolkien wrote it on his drawing definitely says “Moria”. Elves may have originally intended the name as a bit of a burn, but the dwarves constantly use the name in the text without any obvious derogatory intent.
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May 14, 2021 11:54
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The door was made so it would be easier to trade with the elves west of the mountains so maybe they just used the name elves were more familiar with or Celebrimbor just used the name he had always used 
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May 14, 2021 11:59
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I had also forgotten how incredibly thirsty Gimli is after Galadriel. In the movies there's one scene where he asks for some straws of her hair. But in the books he's constantly going on about how fair she is and even threatens to kill Eomer when he doesn't immediately agrees that she's the prettiest being in the whole of Middle- Earth.
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May 14, 2021 12:38
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Alhazred posted:I had also forgotten how incredibly thirsty Gimli is after Galadriel. In the movies there's one scene where he asks for some straws of her hair. But in the books he's constantly going on about how fair she is and even threatens to kill Eomer when he doesn't immediately agrees that she's the prettiest being in the whole of Middle- Earth. She gave him hospitality and a very significant gift when basically everyone else in town including her own retainers was loving him over, and then some guy comes along calling her a sorcerer. He’d be kind of a heel if he didn’t defend her reputation after that.
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May 14, 2021 12:52
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I'm not a good enough fan to remember the specifics (or google them) but wasn't there specifically a parallel between someone else ages back who asked her for her hair and she turned him down and it was a Big Deal, and so it was an even bigger deal that she said yes to the same request from a dwarf?
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May 14, 2021 12:59
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Dark cave doesn’t sound necessarily derogatory
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May 14, 2021 13:02
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Feanor asked her for a hair three times and she turned him down.
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May 14, 2021 13:05
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Imagined posted:I'm not a good enough fan to remember the specifics (or google them) but wasn't there specifically a parallel between someone else ages back who asked her for her hair and she turned him down and it was a Big Deal, and so it was an even bigger deal that she said yes to the same request from a dwarf? Yea, it was Feanor euphronius posted:Dark cave doesn’t sound necessarily derogatory Elves don’t like dark and black things — remember, “dark elf” was an insult among the Noldor. There also seems to be a bit of a cultural complex about living in caves there — Thingol and the king of Mirkwood live in caves, but the exiles don’t, except Felagund who was the chillest of the Noldor. Also, when dwarves lived there it wasn’t even dark, according to Gimli.
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May 14, 2021 13:10
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Perhaps the name came from an early period of exploration and just stuck like “America”
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May 14, 2021 13:12
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The real answer is that elves are assholes. The real answer is always that elves are assholes.
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May 14, 2021 13:45
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sweet geek swag posted:The real answer is that elves are assholes. The real answer is always that elves are assholes. ^^^ this ^^^
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May 14, 2021 16:01
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