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There’s also a mod that adds a crossing “building” for tracks and roads that should let you get around a few difficult situations with putting trams through cities on dedicated rail but I haven’t used it yet. There’s also more tram-appropriate stops but they’re dubiously useful since the real issue with intracity trams is the interaction of road and track.
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May 12, 2021 18:46
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OwlFancier posted:If they would like to add warfare back in I would certainly enjoy building elaborate supply lines for tank divisions. Having dreams of Workers & Resources 2 set during WW2 and you have to manage Soviet Russias military output.
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May 12, 2021 19:03
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I would genuinely like a strategy game with this level of logistical simulation, have things like automation for construction yards and distro offices, yes, but actually thinking about the terrain in the way you do for infrastructure planning would be quite appealing to me. Also make the scale roughly like supreme commander.
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May 12, 2021 19:06
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Some Arma II multiplayer PvE mods came close, with base building and all that jazz, if memory serves. I can only imagine what modders have done with Arma III.
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May 12, 2021 19:27
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Anime Store Adventure posted:There’s also a mod that adds a crossing “building” for tracks and roads that should let you get around a few difficult situations with putting trams through cities on dedicated rail but I haven’t used it yet. There’s also more tram-appropriate stops but they’re dubiously useful since the real issue with intracity trams is the interaction of road and track. I have the tram stops but i haven't seen the crossing or the no-collider tracks. Maybe they just weren't out last I checked. That's great, thanks!
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May 12, 2021 20:10
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Log082 posted:I have the tram stops but i haven't seen the crossing or the no-collider tracks. Maybe they just weren't out last I checked. That's great, thanks! I assume the no collider tracks will end up upsetting me because them being different networks won’t actually be the same so they’ll clip constantly. The crossing I feel like might help very certain situations of building tracks and roads too close together, but then there’s still a minimum road length that has to go from the crossing “building” before it’s a valid road and that’s probably the same as the minimum length for a road to have to cross tracks anyway. I suspect most of the utility is that it won’t stop traffic so expect some minor crossing clipping but crossings now are awful for roads so it’ll help you there. Also given how limited people’s travel needs are, trams kind of feel silly sometimes unless you’re building absolutely massive cities and doubly so, massive hubs for needs. I tend to build a “core” that’s my ‘regional’ work transit - busses or trains - the warehouse and dept store, university, culture, hospital, etc. With one central local “end” stop, you can divert workers to regional transit and passengers to needs within walking distance. This means local buses really only need to loop between a pick up and a destination stop, maybe two destination stops if the core is a little spread out. For a tram this is pretty much the same thing, except they need a whole host of dedicated infrastructure to basically just run back and forth between two stops on top of the extra space requirements for hooking up roads around the rail. They’re not going to be dramatically faster than buses if your roads aren’t choked, though capacity might make up for it and winter will be easier. I’ve been toying with the idea of cities that either run an artery tram that replaces local busses and can dive under or over the main avenue for most of its length (I’m about to have a city that’s along a fjord that’ll be very narrow but long, so this seems promising) or a sort of belt tram that doesn’t gently caress with all the city’s main roads constantly.
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May 12, 2021 22:02
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I Also given how limited people’s travel needs are, trams kind of feel silly sometimes unless you’re building absolutely massive cities and doubly so, massive hubs for needs. I tend to build a “core” that’s my ‘regional’ work transit - busses or trains - the warehouse and dept store, university, culture, hospital, etc. With one central local “end” stop, you can divert workers to regional transit and passengers to needs within walking distance. This means local buses really only need to loop between a pick up and a destination stop, maybe two destination stops if the core is a little spread out. For a tram this is pretty much the same thing, except they need a whole host of dedicated infrastructure to basically just run back and forth between two stops on top of the extra space requirements for hooking up roads around the rail. They’re not going to be dramatically faster than buses if your roads aren’t choked, though capacity might make up for it and winter will be easier. This is very true but I have a hard time resisting the siren call of glorious socialist rail instead of lame automobiles.
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May 12, 2021 23:02
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Mokotow posted:For all those favorably commenting on the heli flight dynamics and accurate runway markings, remember this was a heli sim/shooter and you’re essentially playing a map editor with an economy attached to it.  To be fair, the helicopters clip through each other and don't use complicated maneuvers, so stimulating them is pretty straightforward. Still, I would be The Best if I could fly through the republic I've made on my own personal helicopter!
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May 13, 2021 00:03
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=benTyKBwg6c
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May 14, 2021 13:59
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How much do y'all use line spacing in passenger routes? I noticed in some of my regional passenger routes I had riders timing out because the bus was sandbagging at 30km/hr to maintain spacing. So now I'm thinking it's just appropriate on local collector routes so the regional ones (or last mile worker delivery) can put the pedal to the metal while they have a load.
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May 14, 2021 14:14
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I thought the 30km/hr slog I was witnessing on some of my bus routes was a bug or something until I found out that line spacing was implemented in the test branch and turned on by default on routes I created! I had one route between a small city and an oil refinery with heat plant, asphalt, etc. industrial area just up the road where the 4-5 buses assigned to it were dropping off folks at speed just fine but slogging on the way back and causing folks to walk out of the terminal and turning off line spacing and having them go full-on speed the entire time resolved that issue. This terminal only has workers going to that location, doesn't have student/tourist riders and not having workers go elsewhere (except a small van CO pickup on occasion), so I wonder if line spacing is better in a situation where you have more of a central terminal where buses on multiple routes are picking up at that location rather than a simple one-to-one run.
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May 14, 2021 16:15
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Line spacing I think is situationally useful, it's good if you have dedicated highways or low traffic so people can overtake the dawdling busses, and also if the route is fairly short so that you aren't worried about people timing out on the bus. In return you get a much more reliably steady supply of workers, so basically just use it when that reliable delivery interval is more important than anything else. For most things though I have found turning it off is better because you generally just want to deliver as many people as possible. One thing I wish you could do though is attach vehicle bays to structures and just give them like, buses that hang out there and only launch if there's people to move. Would help with daisy chaining transport routes if there were always buses on standby to pick up incoming travelers. Sort of like "wait until full" but more like "wait until there is anyone to deliver and try to take full loads" Stuff like airport terminals really should work that way, at least. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:31 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 16:28
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I use line spacing on everything, but I don’t have too many/any lines that would be extremely close to timing out and I plan around the spaced lines. If you put more, smaller vehicles on a line you’re better off, at least by my measure: 2 busses on a 3000m loop could have a ton of ground to slow down (oh no I’m 500m behind!) where if you put 10 smaller busses on the route, they are only going to be spaced 300m apart. Overall the same delay on those two lines means more busses might have to slow down and some of the latter busses might be slowed down a lot, but it improves overall frequency when views through overall throughout. If a bus or two times out at the end of a big delay, who cares, the line itself is high frequency and the next not-delayed bus isn’t 1000m away, more like 300. I’ll admit though that’s not science or observation, just the way I thought about my bus lines. Also, they will absolutely slog until they get steady state, because if you assign 8 vehicles until the first one runs a lap they all bunch up until they figure out the appropriate spacing. Wait until it’s steady state before you observe if there’s a crucial problem in the bunching that makes them slow. More importantly though, I think it’s more a function of traffic and design, like OwlFancier says. If you have choked areas, spacing is going to be worse and doubly so if you don’t have dedicated one way roads for overtaking. Additionally, if a bus has to go aways for a gas station, it might slot back into a poo poo spot and ripple through the line’s spacing. This game I have been running two tiers of buses: local feeders from a neighborhood to city core/services. These also carry workers, but are basically just an A>B loop and are the only line that uses their roads other than near to the transit center. So long as construction (temporary), plows, and personal cars don’t absolutely choke the local streets, these are okay to run on spacing. It helps, too, because even though I have one station that’s serving 4 lines of 4-6 busses each, the spacing keeps them all from choking at once and generally keeps the local stations from overfilling with people. The core end stop pushes workers to a regional platform and leaves passengers and students for services. The regional platform is usually very close to a divided highway, maybe 2-3 intersections and not much distance at most. This is ideal for spacing, since work sites are going to have nearby highway exits so most of the line is on open divided highway where it’s easy for them to keep spaced. I put a gas station near the city core and near most if not all highway ramps, so even if they need gas it doesn’t ruin the line. That system works really well for spacing, as most of the roads traveled are high throughput or lightly used and gas is close, so everything’s uninterrupted. It definitely makes for a much nicer way to make lines efficient, as I can tell more easily if the problem is not enough input workers or not enough transit to the worksite. I can also readily balance multiple worksites by just adjusting line frequency, more or less, because things can be assumed to be in a reasonably steady state. If I want twice as many workers at A as I do B, I run twice as many busses to A as B (factoring in distance/vehicle size, but you know what I mean.) I can assume that the inflow of workers is reasonably steady, therefore busses should fill reasonably steady. (Okay not really, but close enough for this.) I can tell if a problem that I’m observing isn’t just a random bunch up of vehicles at one end, at the very least. Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 21:08 on May 14, 2021 |
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May 14, 2021 21:06
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Mokotow posted:For all those favorably commenting on the heli flight dynamics and accurate runway markings, remember this was a heli sim/shooter and you’re essentially playing a map editor with an economy attached to it. this is literally what the original Sim City was, everything old is new again like, it was even specifically a map editor for a helicopter shooter
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May 15, 2021 00:36
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Mister Bates posted:this is literally what the original Sim City was, everything old is new again And then there was sim copter, and Streets of Sim City, completing the cycle. 🎵 You're the tsar, when you've got a kick rear end car 🎵
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May 15, 2021 01:49
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I understand all the various and massive hurdles and expectations for a modern version of Streets or Simcopter but Jesus those two games are up a massive amount of my very young life and are why I got into city builders in the first place, as I wanted to tool around in a city I built in SC2k in Streets/Simcopter. I would love to see a modern one. Give me simcade level simulators for helicopters, trains and trucks in my W&R save games and I’ll have to quit my job.
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May 15, 2021 02:10
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I have once again made a giant spaghetti mess of my construction industry, so I guess it's time to restart 
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May 15, 2021 10:40
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For resisting industry spaghet I find a really important thing is to try and think about what stuff you need to directly connect and what you can truck in. So for construction, you probably want to direct connect gravel as much as possible, but cement can be trucked, as can bitumen (though you might want local storages of each to give a buffer, which you may also want to connect via conveyor, but they don't need to be anywhere near the factory producing either product). Components of both types are used in tiny quantities and are easily transported from a factory basically anywhere, and while you need quite a bit of steel, brick, and prefabs, the new 32 tonne truck is very handy for moving that around so it's still quite achievable if you put a large storage near the construction yard. You can deliver by train if you want to but I think big trucks are fine for that. So the only real thing I think you want for a construction yard is probably on-site gravel production, so build them near quarriable stone. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 14:35 on May 15, 2021 |
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May 15, 2021 14:32
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This time I actually laid out all factories and roads before constructing anything, so managed to connect everything by conveyors or directly. I got asphalt, cement, concrete and steel pretty close to each other, I feel like those are the important ones. Also managed to fit panels factory directly to cement. Bricks and wood depend only on single resource, so can be whenever, and parts like you say don't need that much production. Fingers crossed, this time might actually work.
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May 15, 2021 15:54
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Re: trucking a few things, the asphalt plant doesn’t need a ton of bitumen (at least enough for a pipeline), that’s true, but it often does need to use a lot all at once and if you don’t hook up a truck unload to it’s input at the very least, you’ll have a ton of dump trucks line up, use all the bitumen, and then way back stuck in the line will be your next delivery, causing several dump trucks to leave empty. It’s absolutely not a bad idea to keep it small (I have a modded 100t tank that fits nicely next to the asphalt plant) but definitely make sure if you truck things to it, they always have a clear/dedicated path.
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May 15, 2021 15:58
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It took me a couple of tries and crazy spaghetti layouts to finally realize that I don't necessarily need to shove every last factory together criss-crossed with a mess of pipes and conveyors if local trucking or rail delivery to and from my main construction item production area would suffice for not only a cleaner look but a smoother operation - the concrete and asphalt plants in particular come to mind. Why yes, I could shove that concrete plant in the back corner there and loop a mess of conveyors in the area to reach it, but I think on my fourth attempt at doing so on one map I was working on it finally clicked that maybe putting it elsewhere a bit away from the main area with a small aggregate storage and a bulk cement storage and just trucking stuff to it would work out a lot better for all the construction trucks having to line and load up. That being said, though, the modded conveyor and piping infrastructure that's available in the workshop with road passthroughs, raised input/output locations, and multi-in-multi-out combinations is a real godsend in keeping the spaghetti down.
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May 15, 2021 17:06
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https://www.sovietrepublic.net/post/report-for-the-community-26 Woo moving sun! And a lot of very nice fixes too.
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May 15, 2021 23:18
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I did it, I think I managed to plan it pretty nicely. Conveyors for the raw ore cost me a good chunk, but that 700k left over should be enough to fund an oil refinery, and then I'll be on my way to (very slow) self-sufficiency!
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May 16, 2021 13:34
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grate deceiver posted:I did it, I think I managed to plan it pretty nicely. Conveyors for the raw ore cost me a good chunk, but that 700k left over should be enough to fund an oil refinery, and then I'll be on my way to (very slow) self-sufficiency! It looks good! Nice and squared off, relatively space efficient without jamming everything close together and the other construction ind. nearby fits nicely. Two things I’d mention though: One is minor - not having a conveyor engine between the final storages and the steel mill will cause some weird behavior that doesn’t always fill the steel mill’s inputs. I think the mill is smart enough to not run out if there’s resource available, but it bugs me because it seems like sometimes it’ll be willing to sit with basically no input and just draw only as much as it needs and it ends up looking weird. It makes it hard when you’re trying to evaluate for efficiency if yore feeding it enough coal+iron. The other is ore processing: it’s good enough if you just want to be producing steel so you aren’t buying it and aren’t worried about getting the mill hyper efficient, but one ore processing plant each doesn’t serve up enough iron or coal and, likely, your mine will also throw more ore at it than it can handle. Figuring out the ratio is a little tricky as they don’t tell you outright - you can see what the steel mill uses at full production of iron and coal, and then work that back to the full production of the ore processing plants. (I want to say that it’s 2 iron proc. To 4 coal proc. but I’m not sure.) The annoying part is mines- they tell you the daily tonnage per worker, but not overall, just to screw with you, I guess. So you need to find the maximum tons the mine can handle and then multiply by the source’s quality (so 0.5*max for 50% quality). I did this math setting up my complex and with about 50-70% quality coal and 60%ish quality iron, I have one iron mine, three coal mines, two iron ore processors and four coal ore processors for one steel mill. (There’s a picture a page or two back.) Getting your mill efficient is definitely not necessary to just have steel, though. My complex with all those buildings (and a mechanical parts factory) requires 3 separate train lines and I think almost 2000 workers. It produces far more steel and mechanical parts in a day than I think you could ever hope to overcome with domestic construction. But that said, if you have the workers, building a mechanical parts factory and getting it efficient and then running a train of steel and mech parts to the border for export is really good cash, so it’s a good thing to do. All in all though, congrats. The steel mill is probably the single hardest complex to get running. Electronics + electric parts are a more annoying chain, but you can spread them out and you don’t need a lot of them.The steel mill is the only big annoying centralized bitch that you’re going to constantly need. e: and if you don’t plan on expanding the ore processing now, you’d do good to balance your workers out if you can use the labor elsewhere (like a refinery or more construction!) Again, check my math, but I *think* you’d probably want to run the iron mine at about half staff, the iron processing at full staff, your coal mine at about ... maybe 2/3 staff? Coal processing full staff, steel mill at about 1/3-1/2 staff, probably, maybe closer to 1/3. There’s no reason you can’t dump labor there if you have a surplus so it’s not strictly necessary, but just a tip! Also, as a heads up, the refinery can suck up a full 36 full pump jacks at high source quality. Make a big oil field! Double e: also the steel mill doesn’t need the HV connection - a few substations around the complex will do (I think I have 4 spread out to cover everything, but the steel mill can draw from all four.) It’s weird that they include that connection. Save yourself the extra steel for the HV lines in the future. (Unless there’s something I don’t know about that HV connection!) Anime Store Adventure fucked around with this message at 16:46 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 16:28
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Yeah, the mismatch in tooltip display in the same industry chain (per worker throughput for some buildings and max total for others) is a bit annoying. One of the issues I've run into as a beginner is really figuring out the mine to processor ratio and realizing that I can put down more processors than I think will work, as for very high quality sources I think I have been consistently running too few. At least on the one map I've been playing recently my steel mill isn't starved for resources but I'm not exactly ending up with what I would call a comfortable buffer either. I didn't realize the oil refinery was that crazy high that so many pump jacks wouldn't overwhelm it, but I haven't exactly been running my refinery at full blast either. Is there a point distance-wise you all run into with coal/iron resources being far enough away where one considers bulk movement by transport rather than conveyors for feeding a steel mill? I'm fine with using conveyors to move stuff over mountains where the two resources are on opposite sides, and even across a particular mountain/hill range, but I've been on the occasional map where it seems like the two were generated or placed so far apart from one another that it'd take a conveyor system spanning all the way across the map to feed the mill where I feel it would cost a ton and look ugly as heck to do so.
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May 16, 2021 18:12
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TheGrandMystic posted:Is there a point distance-wise you all run into with coal/iron resources being far enough away where one considers bulk movement by transport rather than conveyors for feeding a steel mill? No, but I tend to select a site that allows for a steel mill to not need more than (guessing) under a km of conveyor for one or both of the inputs. The challenge of conveyors is basically what you said, money and aesthetics and really, mostly aesthetics. I don’t even have napkin math for it but a train or two and the supporting infrastructure for aggregate loading and unloading might be nearly as expensive in the end because of the high cost of train engines. I’ve run some pretty distant coal conveyors and so long as you keep them aligned along a back country road they don’t look terrible. It would be kind of funny to see a Republic where coal is send across the entire map to power plants, still mills, and heating plants exclusively by conveyor. The efficiency of socialism!
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May 16, 2021 18:18
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For guiding ratios, I haven't seen anything in patch notes that would mean this flow chart is out of date https://steamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net/ugc/1749057862504612874/2168AB7DABC7BD39E0DF1923CB1904A6954654C0/ I use trains for coal and iron because I know how to plan a railyard better than a belt maze. I also don't normally play with fuel on. My latest steel mill gets iron from 100m away by a couple train shuttles because  I should sit down and do accounting on storage density and storage per capital invested of iron/coal in aggregate storage vs trains because aggregate storage seems kind of bad by the time you spend mechanisms on the belts to get stuff in and out.
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May 16, 2021 18:58
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Regarding transport, one benefit roads and rails have is reusability. If you have a train line across the map to bring in aggregates, you can also use it to transport other things, like the steel product, fuel, etc.
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May 16, 2021 19:30
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Thanks, that chart is really handy! I've been using another one that had production flow but I like all the data that one has on it. Funny enough, I have the opposite problem: I think I'm really good at the conveyor mazes and crossovers and the like but I haven't a clue on designing a good rail network with good solid refueling station locations, turnabouts and crossovers, and so on and am slowly working my way on getting better at that.
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May 16, 2021 20:47
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How many fields can an Agro-Farm support, and what is a good ratio for mechanisms?
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May 17, 2021 15:40
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Dirk Pitt posted:How many fields can an Agro-Farm support, and what is a good ratio for mechanisms? It depends on how close they are to the farm and how good your mechanisms are, but generally I would say probably about 15 big fields maybe? It's kind of a multiple of how many harvesters/sowers you have because they will send out all the vehicles and do like half a dozen fields at once and then move onto the next few so ideally you want to have it work out so you're not left with one field at the end that gets done last. You can also speed it up by throwing workers at the fields if they're in range of any bus stops or houses, basically allowing you to retask workforce to help with the harvest when needed. For mechanisms you want about half and half tractors and harvesters, and use distribution offices to collect crops from the fields with covered trucks. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 16:00 on May 17, 2021 |
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May 17, 2021 15:57
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This is a pretty good tool, and I wasnt fastidious about getting my numbers right so I just eyeballed how many fields I had and got a more or less usable result: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2130427120 For a modded farm with 18 vehicle slots, I did 5 tractors, 5 harvesters, and 8 trucks (I used to use the distro trick, but now they’re only responsible for running from the farm storage to the main crop storage. All this achieves is saving some time in getting the crops off of the field so they don’t freeze and it’s slightly more convenient since the farm essentially “auto” sets itself up and I can just point a distro center to 3-4 silos instead of having to build 3 distro centers to cover all the fields, but that approach works just as well really.) Those vehicles cover roughly the equivalent of 4 large fields, but there’s a ton of piecemeal small and medium fields so they have to jump around between fields and lose some time. (But the fields look good.)
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May 17, 2021 16:07
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Anime Store Adventure posted:This is a pretty good tool, and I wasnt fastidious about getting my numbers right so I just eyeballed how many fields I had and got a more or less usable result: I forget, can you change depot to a road depot for tractors and harvesters? Road depot's are cheaper than the equivalent parking in an aggrofarm or DC so if you're having trouble setting aside the mech components early on you can rotate in the seasonally correct equipment and punch above the weights given here.
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May 17, 2021 16:17
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zedprime posted:If you check the comments the formula changes slightly with seasons I think. Same general results, 15-20 big farms I think but the mechanism ratio is more 1 tractor to 2 harvesters. Yes, I did this but eventually realized that it was easier on my brain to just build another ag building as intended instead of hoping I didn't forget to switch everything.
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May 17, 2021 20:56
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Do we know how Wind Turbines work by now? I built a small one to align with the direction of the smoke from my heating plant (someone pointed to that earlier in the thread), it's running at about 50% most of the time. That encouraged me to build a large windmill parallel to the first one (but 300m away), that one produces at barely 1% of its potential if at all. In Kosmonaut, that's quite a painful misinvestment in the first years.
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May 19, 2021 18:29
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Kinksky posted:Do we know how Wind Turbines work by now? It seems that power is drawn directly from the windmill like a power substation, but it also allows for exporting power to another substation. The windmill spins as fast as it needs to generate the power demanded. It's unclear what effect wind actually has on it. Don't connect it to your actual 22kV power grid though because it will gently caress everything up. It's only particularly useful for buildings that sip small amounts of power so that the 15kV doesn't make a large impact, I tried using one for a ship cargo dock and the results were... suboptimal. I've also created a solar power plant which gets barely drawn from while my gas power plant is churning away, I'd really prefer the inverse occur 
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May 19, 2021 18:33
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I have a dock powered only by a wind turbine and every now and then it does lose power because the wind dies off. I don’t know if there’s any state in between “there’s wind” and “there’s not” but they definitely shut off from time to time.
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May 19, 2021 19:12
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Prevailing winds will shift around and I don't think they are the same across the whole map. I had a minor heart attack when I was checking pollution mapping around my town and saw the city center getting mich higher levels then when I sited it. And then it aired out
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May 19, 2021 19:15
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zedprime posted:Prevailing winds will shift around and I don't think they are the same across the whole map. I *feel* like pollution spread is just a function of density and random spread because it happens so weirdly, but it’s very hard to pin down exactly how pollution spreads in heavily polluted areas where it has a chance to really spread.
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May 19, 2021 19:23
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I don't fully understand everything behind wind turbines yet either and I've been highly reluctant to hook them up to the rest of the grid. That being said, when I've gotten enough production set up that materials and the like aren't an issue, they've certainly been great for powering some tiny-to-small villages and especially remote gas stations on the road/highway system that needs to be there for refueling but is otherwise far and away from everything else I've got going on elsewhere in the map at the time.
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May 20, 2021 03:58
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