(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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indigi posted:wow I didn't realize how many civilians China lost i think its also including this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_famine_of_1942%E2%80%931943 which probably was made much worse by the war
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May 13, 2021 01:44
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I think part of it is that it wasn't just humiliating to the KMT but generally to China as a whole. It isn't that Chinese forces didn't put up a fight (the Battle of Shanghai) but had a limited number of trained forces and spent them over the course of a couple months. At that point, the war was much more about attrition. I don't think it is generally about not wanting to give the KMT credit as much it was a humiliating period of history. American history books rarely focus on the first 6 months of the war in the Pacific because it was generally the US and the rest of the Western allies getting their clocks cleaned. That said, you could have said, Stalin made a similar mistake and once the Germans had caught the Red Army by surprise, the effort could have been strategic withdrawal to more fortifiable positions such as the Dnieper or the Pripyat marshes. Again, it isn't really something that is brought up that much.
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May 13, 2021 01:51
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fart simpson posted:didnt the kmt conscript surrendered japanese soldiers to fight in the civil war against the communists? I don't know about this part but I know CCP conscripted some Japanese soldiers and more technical personals to fight the civil war up to they liberated Hainan island. upon some googling, yes KMT conscripted some Japanese on their side too. Also, after KMT ran to Taiwan, CKS secretly hired some Japanese officers to train KMT soldiers and draw a plan to fight back to mainland. This plan was kept ultra secret and only came to light recently. Ang Li's brother made a documentary about it. I don't know why his imdb page doesn't have this movie.
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May 13, 2021 01:54
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i remember reading about KMT forces backstabbing and attacking communist regiments that came to fight in the united front against japan
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May 13, 2021 02:00
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mila kunis posted:i remember reading about KMT forces backstabbing and attacking communist regiments that came to fight in the united front against japan well, the japanese are an infection of the skin, the communists are an infection of the heart after all
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May 13, 2021 02:02
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stephenthinkpad posted:I don't know about this part but I know CCP conscripted some Japanese soldiers and more technical personals to fight the civil war up to they liberated Hainan island. Military History Visualized has a well sourced video about why the British, Dutch, Americans and Australians were initially steamrolled by the Japanese when the war started. Most of those countries had attaches and observers with the KMT and thought the KMT armies were subhumans, for obvious reasons, so when the Japanese had a tremendous amount of trouble during the battle of Shanghai, they dismissed the Japanese as equally worthless, because what could the mighty British empire have to fear from an enemy that the subhuman Chinese fought to a virtual standstill? a few years later, supposedly invincible British garrisons like Singapore fold like cardboard boxes when facing Japanese armies that were outnumbered by the British defenders. Of course the truth was that both the KMT and the Japanese were far more capable than the west thought they were, because white people get hosed because they are dumb racists! The Soviets were the only western power that took the Japanese seriously.
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May 13, 2021 02:16
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Pretty sure the brits/anzacs were also insanely arrogant in regards to "Fortress Singapore". It was a naval fortress and they never anticipated an attack from land lol.
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May 13, 2021 02:51
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stephenthinkpad posted:I don't know about this part but I know CCP conscripted some Japanese soldiers and more technical personals to fight the civil war up to they liberated Hainan island. i just remembered where i read it, in fanshen by hinton:   
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May 13, 2021 02:54
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Throatwarbler posted:The Soviets were the only western power that took the Japanese seriously. Eh the Soviets weren’t a Western power, arguably European but that is heavily contested by Western Europeans as well.
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May 13, 2021 03:14
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Russia did suffer some serious losses against Japan a few decades prior as well.thatfatkid posted:Pretty sure the brits/anzacs were also insanely arrogant in regards to "Fortress Singapore". It was a naval fortress and they never anticipated an attack from land lol. lol, and that was after the Russian war with Japan? Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 03:25 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 03:22
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fart simpson posted:i just remembered where i read it, in fanshen by hinton: and thus the john birch society was born
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May 13, 2021 05:08
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is there a good summary somewhere of the Xinjiang / Uyghur situation? I get that there's tons of western propaganda going down and would like to understand it better
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May 13, 2021 07:54
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BULBASAUR posted:is there a good summary somewhere of the Xinjiang / Uyghur situation? I get that there's tons of western propaganda going down and would like to understand it better https://www.bellingcat.com/tag/china/
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May 13, 2021 07:55
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There's been a few good effortposts and twitter threads explaining how the wests claim of systemic abuse/"genocide" all goes back to Adrian "I must save the godless Orientals from themselves" zenz
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May 13, 2021 07:56
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Check out Radio War Nerd 2 parter on the National Endowment for Democracy https://podcastaddict.com/episode/121232504 https://podcastaddict.com/episode/121522126 Great place to start on uighur China poo poo in the current climate
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May 13, 2021 08:01
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BULBASAUR posted:is there a good summary somewhere of the Xinjiang / Uyghur situation? I get that there's tons of western propaganda going down and would like to understand it better This is a decent article which tries to focus on what the PRC actually claims it's doing. http://cpiml.net/liberation/2020/08/chinas-concentration-camps-for-uyghurs-in-chinas-own-words
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May 13, 2021 08:02
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russian "left" youtube is an interesting discursive space, although it's unfortunate that i don't know the language. pavel peretz is a russian youtuber who does history and comedic music videos and is pretty "red" but doesn't take himself too seriousy. i like this one where his "red" gang terrorizes a hipster bar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5F5Q9FbNt8 he's also a regular guest on dmitry puchkov's channel. puchkov also goes by "goblin" who is kind of a grillpilled boomer who is bitter about the loss of the USSR but isn't blind to its problems. this content is mostly history-related, although a lot of the guests are pro-communist and some of the "goblinites" around him are more left wing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KSgApzBv678
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May 13, 2021 08:04
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Not So Fast posted:This is a decent article which tries to focus on what the PRC actually claims it's doing. Love to label a provinces prison system as concentration camps and ignore the massive amount of infrastructure development and quality of life improvements that is occurring in Xinjiang. As we all know those are part of a policy of extermination. Fkn lol
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May 13, 2021 08:22
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thatfatkid posted:Love to label a provinces prison system as concentration camps and ignore the massive amount of infrastructure development and quality of life improvements that is occurring in Xinjiang. As we all know those are part of a policy of extermination. Fkn lol They are very, very explicitly not prisons, the party themselves have made that very clear.
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May 13, 2021 08:28
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what to gently caress is grillpilled
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May 13, 2021 08:31
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indigi posted:what to gently caress is grillpilled https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/i-just-wanna-grill-for-gods-sake
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May 13, 2021 08:32
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https://twitter.com/billyraycyrus/status/335910871974965248?s=19
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May 13, 2021 08:33
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzNTyfHnGwg
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May 13, 2021 12:27
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https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/the-inescapable-nation/quote:Since the end of the Cold War, academic and media circles have consistently discussed a post-Westphalian world brought about by globalization. If Mark Zuckerberg controls what a third of the world sees in their newsfeed, climate change threatens shorelines from Finland to Fiji, and NATO has been repurposed to wage a nebulous “war on terror” against Pashtun tribesmen, then perhaps the nation-state is not the best way to understand international politics. a whole article reviewing three books about the formation of nation-states and the Westphalian order, and this sentence gets tossed in like it's objective fact. Half of China's foreign ministry statements are about respecting the sovereignty of other states, and their the other half are calling for "a more equitable international order." I think it's fine to say they are lying or exaggerating, but at least lay out some evidence if you are going to do that.
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May 13, 2021 12:37
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indigi posted:what to gently caress is grillpilled quote:Matt Christman's philosophy of disengaging (or decreasing engagement) in online discourse and focusing on practical application in the "real world".
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May 13, 2021 12:59
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Not So Fast posted:This is a decent article which tries to focus on what the PRC actually claims it's doing. This quotes directly from ASPI and the NYT.
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May 13, 2021 13:25
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Prince Myshkin posted:This quotes directly from ASPI and the NYT. oh, no! 
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May 13, 2021 13:53
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Somebody will get a kick out of this. They are making the boy band version of "1921", which I assume it's about the founding of CCP. Mao  Deng  Zhou  Chiang  Zhou actor could be handsomer and the Chiang actor could be bolder.
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May 13, 2021 14:14
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BULBASAUR posted:is there a good summary somewhere of the Xinjiang / Uyghur situation? I get that there's tons of western propaganda going down and would like to understand it better pretty lol that the american government is beating the human rights drum about Xinjiang at the same time they send isreal free bombs to murder palestinians. maybe sort out your own poo poo before you start pointing fingers usa?
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May 13, 2021 14:23
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:thinking about this david frum article again and something else (i can't remember where) where the author was gobsmacked that PLA troops spend a portion of their time... sitting around singing songs about mao!?!? what's that about??? it's like propaganda or something, and that can't be effective at improving the morale of the soldiers and giving them a reason to believe in what they're doing while staying focused on their mission. it can't be that, it must be just sheer incompetence, unlike the U.S. military, which has a spotless record of racking up the Ws in wars in east asia Has anyone told this guy that the US army soldier spends 20-30% of their time taking sexual assault prevention courses?
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May 13, 2021 14:49
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indigi posted:what to gently caress is grillpilled 
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May 13, 2021 14:55
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https://twitter.com/deepakurup/status/1389664515323830281
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May 13, 2021 15:06
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I still don't think the USSR was actually going to invade Japan, and they never were; it would be far easier and much more impactful to swing down through China and help Mao rather than try to perform an amphibious assault on Japan. When the Americans are more than happy to stick their dick into that beehive, why would you waste the manpower?
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May 13, 2021 15:12
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yeah grillpilled is one of the core concepts of Matt Christman Thought. it has been incorrectly characterized as completely checking out of politics, more accurately it’s trying to distance your head from the constant swirling useless nether of twitter discourse, because that breaks most people’s brains one proposal is that no one should be allowed in online discussion except for a class of posting mentats who do the posting for us and we stay out of it. e.g. a bunch of matt bruenig type brains bear the burden of discourse it’s mostly intended as a goof, of course that’s not realistic, but it’s a warning to not let this stuff cause your brain to turn to slurry. it came out of the beginning of covid as a reaction to the race to see how far everyone could drive eachother into being a non-functioning hyperventilating wreck
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May 13, 2021 15:16
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Grapplejack posted:I still don't think the USSR was actually going to invade Japan, and they never were; it would be far easier and much more impactful to swing down through China and help Mao rather than try to perform an amphibious assault on Japan. When the Americans are more than happy to stick their dick into that beehive, why would you waste the manpower? The USA was worried about the soviets occupying Japan. Possibly necessitating a north/south partition of the country comparable to Germany. Whether this was a possibility or not is irrelevant. The Americans, as well as Japanese, believed it was a possibility. Leading to the nukes dropping to end the war before the soviets got a chance to invade
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May 13, 2021 16:55
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BrutalistMcDonalds posted:russian "left" youtube is an interesting discursive space, although it's unfortunate that i don't know the language. There's a lot of active channels. There's one that's just an upload location for a debate club from a bunch of economic professors or something https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsTvF8_dyS4hpjRczQKN6kw The quality is hilariously awful for how serious the content is, but some of the invited speakers end up on slightly bigger channels like. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYDuWqDwzAFG4xrI5uJEWfw https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4Cap1xVy2waDXfzM5ka6lg I guess the biggest difference compared to breadtube in the west is that instead of talking about "reading theory" the russians can just get economy and history professors to show up on their channels and talk about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS4bl3n2jww Lostconfused has issued a correction as of 17:58 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 17:55
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BULBASAUR posted:is there a good summary somewhere of the Xinjiang / Uyghur situation? I get that there's tons of western propaganda going down and would like to understand it better Qiao Collective has a pretty great resource on this. https://www.qiaocollective.com/en/education/xinjiang
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May 13, 2021 20:14
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indigi posted:why wouldn't the CCP want to talk about what a shitshow KMT leadership was the KMT is pro-reunification and their best allies in Taiwan now
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May 13, 2021 21:56
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Grapplejack posted:I still don't think the USSR was actually going to invade Japan, and they never were; it would be far easier and much more impactful to swing down through China and help Mao rather than try to perform an amphibious assault on Japan. When the Americans are more than happy to stick their dick into that beehive, why would you waste the manpower? I pretty much agree with Dreaddout’s post, but even in the case where the American planners agreed with you I’m certain they didn’t want the Soviets holding significant portions of China and Korea when the surrender came in. another two weeks would have been disastrous from that perspective
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May 13, 2021 22:04
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comedyblissoption posted:other important context on nazi-western-soviet relations jesus i didn't know yugoslavia lost more than UK and US combined indigi posted:I just didn't realize the scale. the fact that Imperial Japan isn't talked about in the same way as Nazi Germany is either phenomenal propaganda or - oh, the victims were Chinese, so it's just racism it's both, the current japanese regime started as a CIA op, when it looked like commies were gonna win big in elections cia sent a bunch of people and cash to japan to rehabilitate their fash and obstruct commies Truga has issued a correction as of 22:11 on May 13, 2021 |
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May 13, 2021 22:08
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