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Jazerus posted:ncsoft is manifestly a normal company in this regard Oh, was Marvel Heroes subscription-based?
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May 15, 2021 02:14
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Coward posted:Oh, was Marvel Heroes subscription-based? It was F2P with a pretty good F2P model.
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May 15, 2021 02:17
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Looking back, I can't believe COH got shut down way back in 2012. If I had to guess offhand, I'd have said 2015 or so. Shame that there's been no progress on anyone actually getting the rights or formal permission from NCSoft or building a successor game since then.
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May 15, 2021 02:41
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Gynovore posted:Care to elaborate? Painting the company as some insane and evil villain, and moreover a uniquely and especially insane and evil villain, is childish.
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May 15, 2021 03:06
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Harrow posted:Huh, interesting. So does it still make sense to load up Dual Pistols with procs like it did before the change? I vaguely remember that was the best way to get decent damage out of Dual Pistols on a Corruptor last time I played (which was definitely before the change). There haven’t been changes to procs since the start of Homecoming. The mechanics that are active now were in beta once the live game closed and are being looked at for rebalancing, but nothing’s come of it just yet.
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May 15, 2021 03:10
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John Murdoch posted:Painting the company as some insane and evil villain, and moreover a uniquely and especially insane and evil villain, is childish. Evil? No. Insane? Yes. Gynovore fucked around with this message at 03:17 on May 15, 2021 |
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May 15, 2021 03:15
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Gynovore posted:Evil? No. Insane? Yes. Again, from a purely corporate standpoint, shutting down Paragon wasn't even a bad idea. The studio was losing money, they had nothing to show for the cash infusions NCsoft put in to get additional games/IP, and while the game was profitable, it wasn't a great earner. They could have kept a graveyard crew going to keep the lights on, but even then, how long would the game have taken to stop being profitable if the game stopped having content updates (or simply only updated Paid cosmetics and the like?)
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May 15, 2021 03:27
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Deki posted:Again, from a purely corporate standpoint, shutting down Paragon wasn't even a bad idea. The studio was losing money, they had nothing to show for the cash infusions NCsoft put in to get additional games/IP, and while the game was profitable, it wasn't a great earner. I don't have access to actual numbers, but according to Matt Miller, under freemium the game was more profitable than it was before. Granted Miller's word may not be gospel but I doubt he would lie.
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May 15, 2021 03:29
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Gynovore posted:I don't have access to actual numbers, but according to Matt Miller, under freemium the game was more profitable than it was before. Granted Miller's word may not be gospel but I doubt he would lie. I mean that could be true, and Paragon could have still been deeply in the red if they were throwing a lot of money at other projects that never panned out.
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May 15, 2021 03:40
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Given that nobody but a select few have a complete picture of what went down and why, defaulting to "NCsoft must be literally insane to shut down a game I happen to like" is, ironically, a very irrational thing to do.
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May 15, 2021 03:55
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Abroham Lincoln posted:There haven’t been changes to procs since the start of Homecoming. The mechanics that are active now were in beta once the live game closed and are being looked at for rebalancing, but nothing’s come of it just yet. Oh okay cool. That’s what I was thinking from that explanation but it’s been so long since I’ve played that I questioned my memory.
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May 15, 2021 04:02
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It's my understanding that Paragon was working on another project, perhaps two. If NCSoft wasn't happy with what they were doing, and they had already invested a substantial amount of money in them, then shutting them down may have made financial sense. Not sure what sense it is holding on to the IP despite many offers, but they wouldn't be the only company to have done that.
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May 15, 2021 04:18
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FrostyPox posted:Not sure what sense it is holding on to the IP despite many offers, but they wouldn't be the only company to have done that. I do feel like there's a degree of presumptuousness to the whole thing. Like, you don't hear about random people saying something like "EA hasn't made a Command & Conquer game in years, I'm gonna demand they sell me the IP!" followed by "wow WTF EA refuse to sell, they must be crazy!!". Like it or not it just doesn't seem to work that way. Pretty much the only time you hear about IPs changing hands like that is if the original company gets dissolved. My feeling is that the Homecoming situation is different because it has an actual organization and infrastructure in place, to the point of being able to develop new content, and it also has standards that it will enforce. That's likely much more appealing to NCsoft and is something you can hang a licensing agreement on, rather than some random dude Yakuza-ing it by flashing a briefcase full of money at the building and yelling "sell me City of Heroes, you cowards".
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May 15, 2021 04:46
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The fact that some of the core devs jumped ship to make champions online, basically a clone of coh, always made me think there was something deeper than money. The fact that they ignored a ton of please to release it to third parties or sell it? (Been a while), didn’t seem to jibe with the “money” angle. Personally I thought maybe there was some tech they wanted to recycle, that’s why they kept it, but the whole wind down was not typical.
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May 15, 2021 04:52
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How's the PvP scene on Homecoming? I never got high enough to check it out..
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May 15, 2021 05:24
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Gynovore posted:You have to remember, NCsoft is not a normal company. They had a product that was making them money, and would likely continue to make them money, and they shut it down. Some people offered them money to not shut it down, and then said no. Then after it closed, people offered them money for the code and rights, and they still said no. Heck, people offered them money for just the IP, and got shot down, even though NC did jack poo poo with it... oh wait, they used Statesman's image in a lovely MOBA that got closed fifteen minutes after launch. Not to mention that releasing a MOBA in 2018 is like throwing your money into a flaming sewage dumpster. Modern online games are entirely based on bilking whales for vast sums of money. CoH tried that.... but you can't sell skins in a game where everyone looks unique. You can't sell stat modifiers when no one can see your sick numbers. And the costume pieces were thin on the ground compared to the huge existing costume library. There were no opportunities for growth, and anyone playing CoH wasn't playing one of NCSoft's other games, all of which are more aggressively monetized. You can be sad they axed a good game people enjoyed playing, but they don't care about people having fun. Why would they? They're a corporation.
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May 15, 2021 05:30
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xxEightxx posted:The fact that some of the core devs jumped ship to make champions online, basically a clone of coh, always made me think there was something deeper than money. They didn't jump ship to make a CoH clone. Marvel originally gave them a bunch of money to make a Marvel Universe MMO (perhaps shrewdly realizing that if people were eager to rip off their characters in CoH maybe they should just give 'em what they want). Then, because this is mid-2000s Marvel we're talking about, they subsequently decided that actually they wanted nothing to do with this MMO business whatsoever and pulled out of the deal. So then Cryptic retooled the work that had been completed into Champions Online after getting ahold of the rights to that (which, it's worth noting, was what City of Heroes was intended to be in the first place). John Murdoch fucked around with this message at 06:01 on May 15, 2021 |
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May 15, 2021 05:46
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Mystic Mongol posted:Modern online games are entirely based on bilking whales for vast sums of money. CoH tried that.... but you can't sell skins in a game where everyone looks unique. You can't sell stat modifiers when no one can see your sick numbers. And the costume pieces were thin on the ground compared to the huge existing costume library. I'd imagine if you really wanted to be evil you could do the following: Step 1: finally finish the incarnate system Step 2: Make the final tiers of the incarnate system a total bitch to finish. Gate it with time limited drops Step 3: Cash shop items to skip step 2 so that you can get your tier 5/6 incarnates easily if you dropped 50 bucks or so.
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May 15, 2021 06:17
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That's kind of like what current Neverwinter is like except the caps never stop increasing and it costs more like a thousand plus to max out a character. I dunno what modern STO is like but I doubt it's much different.
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May 15, 2021 09:29
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Reminder: Homecoming Anniversary Costume Contest tonight at 5pm EST in Echo Plaza (the new event area). Get there via TUNNEL/Long Range Teleporter/Pocket D.quote:
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May 15, 2021 12:49
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John Murdoch posted:They didn't jump ship to make a CoH clone. Marvel originally gave them a bunch of money to make a Marvel Universe MMO (perhaps shrewdly realizing that if people were eager to rip off their characters in CoH maybe they should just give 'em what they want). Then, because this is mid-2000s Marvel we're talking about, they subsequently decided that actually they wanted nothing to do with this MMO business whatsoever and pulled out of the deal. So then Cryptic retooled the work that had been completed into Champions Online after getting ahold of the rights to that (which, it's worth noting, was what City of Heroes was intended to be in the first place). Oh, also to connect the dots further: Reminder that Paragon Studios only existed as an entity at all because NCsoft bought out the remaining core CoH dev team from Cryptic along with the full IP rights after Champions happened. (Which really probably not a bad idea to get the directly competing games out from under the same roof.) Then they invested a bunch of money into the studio with its own building and such. That's the kind of thing that really only happens if they expect some sort of significant return on that investment, not just keeping an increasingly old and crusty MMO a modest success. Adds weight to the likelihood that CoH was collateral damage caused by them just wanting to shitcan Paragon after nothing came from it aside from the likely temporary boost in money from the F2P switch over (and anecdotally, it's not like there was a long lasting boost in player numbers either).
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May 15, 2021 14:00
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John Murdoch posted:I do feel like there's a degree of presumptuousness to the whole thing. Like, you don't hear about random people saying something like "EA hasn't made a Command & Conquer game in years, I'm gonna demand they sell me the IP!" followed by "wow WTF EA refuse to sell, they must be crazy!!". Like it or not it just doesn't seem to work that way. Pretty much the only time you hear about IPs changing hands like that is if the original company gets dissolved. NCS probably took a look at the time and monetary cost of the lawyering that would have to be involved, weighed it against what they could stand to make from selling the IP, and decided their legal department had better ways to use their time. Sucks, but understandable.
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May 15, 2021 14:02
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Harrow posted:Huh, interesting. So does it still make sense to load up Dual Pistols with procs like it did before the change? I vaguely remember that was the best way to get decent damage out of Dual Pistols on a Corruptor last time I played (which was definitely before the change). To be clear, this is talking about the in-beta changes at the time of shutdown that Homecoming promoted to "live servers". Homecoming hasn't changed anything more about procs work, but if you're coming to Homecoming for the first time they'll work differently than you may vaguely remember from the game itself. It depends on how close you come to hitting the power on cooldown, so it's more of a nerf if you strapped four damage procs to one of your starting plinker powers than it is if you strapped them onto one of the cone or area attacks, because a plinker power comes off cooldown a lot faster and you're probably doing something else when it does, while a cone or area has a longer cooldown and you might be waiting on it, but even if you aren't it can still spend a proportionally shorter time off cooldown than it does on. Glazius fucked around with this message at 20:35 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 20:33
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Glazius posted:To be clear, this is talking about the in-beta changes at the time of shutdown that Homecoming promoted to "live servers". Homecoming hasn't changed anything more about procs work, but if you're coming to Homecoming for the first time they'll work differently than you may vaguely remember from the game itself. Oh yeah, I was talking about any changes since Homecoming, since I've been playing on Homecoming. I'd remembered hearing about potential balance changes to procs coming for Homecoming. I thought that explanation sounded like how it already worked (on Homecoming) but didn't trust my memory 
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May 16, 2021 21:06
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Did Super Strength's Hand Clap ever deal damage? Because I'm looking at it on one of my older toons and wondering why the hell I bothered training it and slotting it up when she just melts everything with melee anyways.
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May 29, 2021 20:34
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I don't recall it doing damage, just the stun or whatever.
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May 29, 2021 20:41
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Don't forget the knockback, Hand Clap is very good at scattering the mobs you're trying to fight. I have heard that it works pretty well with a kb>kd enhancment and the force feedback +recharge proc, never tried it myself though.
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May 29, 2021 22:28
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What’s going on with the game these days? I checked it out when the thing first surfaced and some dude power leveled me in some weird tiny dimension where you could set monster level and poo poo so I got bored p quick. I guess it was some kind of farming strat cause I was a fiery spike man I think
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Jun 14, 2021 03:36
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Tabletops posted:What’s going on with the game these days? I checked it out when the thing first surfaced and some dude power leveled me in some weird tiny dimension where you could set monster level and poo poo so I got bored p quick. I guess it was some kind of farming strat cause I was a fiery spike man I think Things are still going along and there's a pretty decent playerbase. Yeah, you did get powerleveled, probably not the best way to get a feel for the game. That's a popular farming strategy for making lots of money to get good endgame enhancements. You'd probably have more fun making a new character and just joining random teams with people to go punch enemies and do missions together. The game's a lot of fun in team content. I do enjoy farming that way but I didn't make a character for that until I'd already made a couple other characters I wanted to gear up.
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Jun 14, 2021 03:52
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Holy poo poo I remember playing this game when it first came out and fell in love with Super Jumping everywhere. I may have to give this a go.
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Jun 15, 2021 20:31
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I wanna make a Scrapper with Titan Weapons primary, but what's a good secondary to give him? I've done Willpower before and that's really good, but I wanna know if I'm missing out on something that might pair better.
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Jun 15, 2021 22:52
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Neurion posted:I wanna make a Scrapper with Titan Weapons primary, but what's a good secondary to give him? I've done Willpower before and that's really good, but I wanna know if I'm missing out on something that might pair better. Fire?
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Jun 15, 2021 23:33
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Neurion posted:I wanna make a Scrapper with Titan Weapons primary, but what's a good secondary to give him? I've done Willpower before and that's really good, but I wanna know if I'm missing out on something that might pair better. Keep in mind that Titan Weapons was nerfed recently. It's still good, just not OMG GAME BREAKING good. For secondaries, go Fire if you want to maximize offense, Invul to be unkillable, Electric for some of each. Bio is also great, although a bit fiddly.
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Jun 16, 2021 01:27
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TW/bio used to be completely bonkers, still very good afaik. early on I found TW's momentum pauses gave me a good time to re-evaluate what bio stance to be in, but those kind of go away as you clear level 20-30 and can just be attacking all the time. that said being able to reload your end and then toggle into Everything Crits Toxic is still just generally very good
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Jun 16, 2021 01:53
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Are TW new? I don’t remember that from when I played before
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Jun 16, 2021 02:24
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Tabletops posted:Are TW new? I don’t remember that from when I played before They were introduced towards the end of the game being Live, but the people running Homecoming have added a few new sets and a whole new AT.
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Jun 16, 2021 02:25
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Hunter Noventa posted:They were introduced towards the end of the game being Live, but the people running Homecoming have added a few new sets and a whole new AT. That’s neat. So they’re pretty good? I never really played melee much cause assault rifle was so fun I love big aoe
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Jun 16, 2021 02:27
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Just discovered there's an Exploration badge called "Peace Walker," so now it's time to make a Fire/Ice blaster named Hot Coldman. Edit: Or I could make a military MM based off Amanda and her Sandanistas.
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Jun 16, 2021 02:35
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Tabletops posted:That’s neat. So they’re pretty good? I never really played melee much cause assault rifle was so fun Titan Weapons is pretty fun, the momentum mechanic is kind of wonky to get used to from my experience. I enjoyed Staff Melee a lot more myself.
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Jun 16, 2021 03:00
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War Mace/Bio is a really fun and crunchy combo for a scrapper, good amount of PBAoE/arc damage.
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Jun 16, 2021 04:08
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