|
Hurricane was literally the first guy I can remember who got to fight back against Rock on the mic, as opposed to his usual running dudes over verbally. "The Rock knows who could whup the Hurricane. Batman. Superman. Aquaman, and he talks to fish!" "You know who the Hurricane can whup? The Scorpion King!" "Oh no you didn't!"
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 01:56
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 18:14 |
|
|
El Gallinero Gros posted:The Rock was known to be willing to do business with drat near everyone. I remember there being a quote where he bemoaned the attitude of certain top guys and said something to the effect of "Shut up, go out there and do business". Kinda funny since years later CM Punk was bemoaning The Rock coming in for those return matches. Also was Shawn Michaels the only person Rock didn't want to do business with? On account of Shawn being a gigantic rear end in a top hat to either Rock's mom or dad or someone?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 03:24
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Kinda funny since years later CM Punk was bemoaning The Rock coming in for those return matches. I believe it was the Rock's grandmother, Lia Maivia. She ran the Hawaii promotion after Peter Maivia died, and apparently, Shawn was an rear end in a top hat to her at one point. Plus, if I remember correctly, he and Triple H pretty vocally buried Rock backstage during his Rocky Maivia days.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 03:45
|
|
|
DeathChicken posted:Hurricane was literally the first guy I can remember who got to fight back against Rock on the mic, as opposed to his usual running dudes over verbally. It's more than that, he completely loses his composure at the very suggestion. "Brendan Fraser beat the Scorpion King." "Bre-ada-da-dyah HE DID NOT!"
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 03:45
|
|
|
Edge & Christian posted:Let the record show on review of the video comp posted above, it was "EASY BIG FELLA" as he slapped his lower thigh (8m30s) though it doesn't contain the later version while just wearing trunks. I'm worried I made that up.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 06:38
|
|
|
Remembering New Jack and wanting to revisit his work - what would you say is his best match?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 11:10
|
|
|
TL posted:I believe it was the Rock's grandmother, Lia Maivia. She ran the Hawaii promotion after Peter Maivia died, and apparently, Shawn was an rear end in a top hat to her at one point. Plus, if I remember correctly, he and Triple H pretty vocally buried Rock backstage during his Rocky Maivia days. IIRC, Bret also kinda helped Rock out during his first year in the company and he naturally took Bret's side against Shawn in the chaos of mid to late 1997.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 13:22
|
|
|
anakha posted:IIRC, Bret also kinda helped Rock out during his first year in the company and he naturally took Bret's side against Shawn in the chaos of mid to late 1997. Did Rock and Owen become good friends, thus leading to Owen's inclusion in The Nation?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 16:20
|
|
|
DeathChicken posted:Hurricane was literally the first guy I can remember who got to fight back against Rock on the mic, as opposed to his usual running dudes over verbally. Every time the Hurricane angle comes up I immediately think 'See HHH, this is the difference between you and the Rock, the Rock elevates, you bury.' Then I remember 'wait, didn't the Rock overwhelm and bury everybody he was ever in a program with before this point. I mean one of his catchphrases involves rudely interrupting somebody'. So I guess in this instance I'm not being completely fair.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 17:17
|
|
|
ChrisBTY posted:Every time the Hurricane angle comes up I immediately think 'See HHH, this is the difference between you and the Rock, the Rock elevates, you bury.' Then I remember 'wait, didn't the Rock overwhelm and bury everybody he was ever in a program with before this point. I mean one of his catchphrases involves rudely interrupting somebody'. So I guess in this instance I'm not being completely fair. I don't remember much of Rock's promos, did he often put down people's wrestling abilities (beyond I can kick your rear end) or was it just insults in general? There's a big difference between putting down your opponent and putting down their ability, as beating or losing to someone you said was bad and worthless makes you look like a chump either way.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 18:03
|
|
|
The Rock was a jerk!
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 19:00
|
|
|
Like, the entire point of a promo in wrestling is to trash talk your opponent. Rock was just extremely good at it. And I wouldn't say he damaged anyone's career with a promo. Maybe Billy Gunn, but he was already doing a pretty good job of not getting over on his own.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 19:14
|
|
|
rujasu posted:Like, the entire point of a promo in wrestling is to trash talk your opponent. Rock was just extremely good at it. And I wouldn't say he damaged anyone's career with a promo. Maybe Billy Gunn, but he was already doing a pretty good job of not getting over on his own. I feel like Rock followed the 'insult but don't completely bury your opponent' formula pretty well, although I'm sure there were exceptions.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 19:38
|
|
|
Rock constantly insulted people and the crowds loved it and it made big money and it never hurt his opponents. Pretty sure all his long term feuds were with folks who ended up becoming main eventers. Like, Rikishi and Billy Gunnn not making it is not the dude's fault. He spent a full year "burying" Foley and it just made the guy more beloved. He was incredibly giving with Jericho's debut, go watch that and then any segment from his subsequent feuds with the HHH adjacent folks and it's fuckin night and day. Being aggressive in pro-wrestling isn't bad, it's kinda the point.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 20:33
|
|
|
The Rock would generally make fun of a person's personality or appearance and go off of that whereas Triple H would just talk about how much more of an rear end kicker and bad rear end he was, then he'd win the feud. Pretty easy to see the difference.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 20:39
|
|
|
"If your opponent is a loser all you did is beat a loser" is true, but if you are wildly entertaining like the Rock the rules don't apply. He could lose and it washed off him, he could do whatever. He's the Rock.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 20:40
|
|
|
Also the job of the heel is ultimately to look like a fool at the hands of the face. HHH would make faces look like complete fools regularly.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 20:42
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:I feel like Rock followed the 'insult but don't completely bury your opponent' formula pretty well, although I'm sure there were exceptions. billy gunn is the #1 name that comes to mind but also it was billy gunn
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 21:32
|
|
|
Have there been many tag teams that broke up and both members became successful solo?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 21:55
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Have there been many tag teams that broke up and both members became successful solo? The Hardys are the first that spring to mind.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 21:56
|
|
|
Lamuella posted:The Hardys are the first that spring to mind. I was completely drawing a blank, yeah they're a big one. Edge and Christian too, though Edge definitely was more successful.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 21:57
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:I was completely drawing a blank, yeah they're a big one. Edge and Christian too, though Edge definitely was more successful. Going back to the 80s, the Brain Busters both became legendary.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 22:02
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Have there been many tag teams that broke up and both members became successful solo? The Mega-Powers The Shield
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 22:03
|
|
|
Silly Burrito posted:The Mega-Powers Mega-Powers don't really count because they were like successful solo first hence them being put together as the Mega-Powers
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 22:20
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Have there been many tag teams that broke up and both members became successful solo? The Hollywood Blondes (Steve Austin and Brian Pillman) - definitely one more than the other, but Pillman did alright for himself. Ric Flair and Greg Valentine Curt Hennig and Scott Hall The Blade Runners (Sting and Ultimate Warrior) Tencozy (Hiroyoshi Tenzan and Satoshi Kojima) The Miracle Violence Connection (Steve Williams and Terry Gordy)
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 22:33
|
|
|
I randomly came across this story on BBC: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-dorset-56591399 Are there other examples of wrestlers actually jailed for loving up their opponents during a match?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 23:12
|
|
|
Ganso Bomb posted:The Rock would generally make fun of a person's personality or appearance and go off of that whereas Triple H would just talk about how much more of an rear end kicker and bad rear end he was, then he'd win the feud. Pretty easy to see the difference. That's true. You want to listen to the Rock talk. Not so much Trips. Once again it almost baffles me how much HHH simultaneously idolized and didn't get Ric. (Not uncommon, I know.)
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 23:58
|
|
|
SLUM KING posted:Rock constantly insulted people and the crowds loved it and it made big money and it never hurt his opponents. Pretty sure all his long term feuds were with folks who ended up becoming main eventers. Like, Rikishi and Billy Gunnn not making it is not the dude's fault. Twenty years later and I'm still mad they did that stupid I DID IT FOR DA ROCK bullshit with Rikishi and killed him dead. 
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2021 23:58
|
|
|
The purpose of any promo is to promote, as in sell tickets to, upcoming matches. There's a fine art to trash-talking your opponent without burying them. As Heenan put it, "You don't call Verne Gagne a bald old man" even if he is.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 00:16
|
|
|
Admiral Joeslop posted:Have there been many tag teams that broke up and both members became successful solo? Golden Lovers KentaFuji Misawa and Kawada
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 00:20
|
|
|
Another problem I think is that WWE, historically, hasn't really been able to book a dominant heel well (which is part of what's made their recent programming so baffling). They have a natural inclination towards the dominant babyface- Hogan, Austin, Cena, etc. That's their comfort zone, a hero who faces a number of challenges but is always The Guy. Like having HHH as a major heel whom a babyface has to overcome, sort of like a video game boss, that feels like where he would have worked best. But they made him the Ace while still being a dick and yeah.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 00:24
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Another problem I think is that WWE, historically, hasn't really been able to book a dominant heel well (which is part of what's made their recent programming so baffling). They have a natural inclination towards the dominant babyface- Hogan, Austin, Cena, etc. That's their comfort zone, a hero who faces a number of challenges but is always The Guy. Would you consider Brock as a dominant heel?
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 00:50
|
|
|
Silly Burrito posted:Would you consider Brock as a dominant heel? I missed all of Brock's original run.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:16
|
|
|
Maxwell Lord posted:Another problem I think is that WWE, historically, hasn't really been able to book a dominant heel well (which is part of what's made their recent programming so baffling). They have a natural inclination towards the dominant babyface- Hogan, Austin, Cena, etc. That's their comfort zone, a hero who faces a number of challenges but is always The Guy. Regardless of how his matches were, Mark Henry in his initial Hall of Pain run was pretty well booked. He wasn't made to look a fool, he didn't run away in terror (except for against Orton at one point for some reason), and he acted like a man who knew he could throw anyone he wanted around like a ragdoll (and did). He was just a solidly booked dominant monster heel who was fun to watch.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:25
|
|
|
Hoss Corncave posted:Regardless of how his matches were, Mark Henry in his initial Hall of Pain run was pretty well booked. He wasn't made to look a fool, he didn't run away in terror (except for against Orton at one point for some reason), and he acted like a man who knew he could throw anyone he wanted around like a ragdoll (and did). He was just a solidly booked dominant monster heel who was fun to watch. I loved his beef with Sheamus started when Sheamus said "strength isn't everything." Of course that would set Henry off.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 01:54
|
|
|
Dawgstar posted:I feel like Rock followed the 'insult but don't completely bury your opponent' formula pretty well, although I'm sure there were exceptions. I remember the Rock's promos usually being a series of insults and making fun and there at the end he would start putting over how dangerous or good his opponent was but he was still gonna beat their rear end.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 07:04
|
|
|
my favorite rock promo is the one he cut on Royal Rumble 2000 where he said his two biggest threats in the rumble were Crash Holly and Headbanger Mosh
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 07:42
|
|
|
Talk of Cody’s promo made me think. Have there been any ”patriotic American” gimmicks that were explicitly heel? I can think of, well uh, that Jack Swagger gimmick where they were very racist? Or something? But I don’t know if that was a heel thing.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 08:15
|
|
|
Swagger’s initial gimmick wasn’t racist.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 08:17
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 20, 2024 18:14 |
|
|
a cyborg mug posted:Talk of Cody’s promo made me think. Have there been any ”patriotic American” gimmicks that were explicitly heel? I can think of, well uh, that Jack Swagger gimmick where they were very racist? Or something? But I don’t know if that was a heel thing. Sorry, I misunderstood the question I mean, I think Jack Swagger's Real American gimmick was supposed to be a heel thing with Zeb. But the crowd really liked saying, "We the people!" TheKingslayer fucked around with this message at 08:20 on May 16, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2021 08:17
|
|