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I mean, we don't know that the Gardens doesn't have a killer whale tank, or given the casualness this area has about wild animal sightings, for all we know, a pet killer whale got loose and is wandering around the woods, hanging out with the leopard.
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# ? May 14, 2021 05:31 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 11:32 |
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David teamed up with Satan Killer Whale, the nemesis of Jesus Whale.
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# ? May 14, 2021 05:44 |
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Epicurius posted:I mean, we don't know that the Gardens doesn't have a killer whale tank, or given the casualness this area has about wild animal sightings, for all we know, a pet killer whale got loose and is wandering around the woods, hanging out with the leopard. The Gardens is basically Seaworld+an amusement park, so it makes sense they'd have an Orca tank.
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# ? May 14, 2021 05:48 |
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They get an orca morph from the Gardens later in the series, (Not really a spoiler, it's the cover morph for that book) and although Cassie's dialogue implies that it's new, it wouldn't be the only continuity error in Animorphs. That, or David stole a plane ticket to San Diego and took a trip to SeaWorld.
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# ? May 14, 2021 06:02 |
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Shwoo posted:That, or David stole a plane ticket to San Diego and took a trip to SeaWorld. David would never steal a plane ticket. That would be a crime! But a bird can’t steal a plane ticket...
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# ? May 14, 2021 09:37 |
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Also as we've seen from first hand experience with the kids just getting started, even getting a single morph has a compounding effect on one's ability to acquire more and more morphs, and the more morphs one has, the more tactics to acquire additional morphs one also has. And David might be a cowardly shithead sociopath, but he's also smart, creative, and determined. I'm not the least bit surprised he McGyver'd his way into accruing an orca somehow.
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# ? May 14, 2021 10:09 |
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I think the biggest mistake the authors made was having Jake and David fight in tiger/lion morphs because a) I think a tiger takes a lion and b) in every other situation David has shown that he loves the large powerful versions so him being a threat to the Animorphs, especially one on one, makes sense to me. This is a good example. Also I know they are tired, but a lone orca doing weird un-orca things not being David is just an example of how not-paranoid they still are, despite dealing with an invasion of brain stealing aliens.
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# ? May 14, 2021 11:42 |
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It happens in the book but a tiger's big move is the neck bite which would get foiled by a lion's mane. So making that tactical mistake leaves the tiger open to counter-attack. A tiger is bigger, faster and cooler than a lion though and I'll fight anyone who says otherwise.
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# ? May 14, 2021 14:25 |
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I wouldn't really say David definitively beat Jake in a straight fight. He didn't land a decisive blow until the skylight got involved and it was basically luck that Jake got seriously injured in the fall and David didn't.
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# ? May 14, 2021 20:16 |
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Animorphs Book 22-The Solution, Chapter 17quote:Six thought-speak voices said the identical word at the same time. Even if it doesn't have teeth, if a hunchback whale rams an orca it outweighs ten to one, that's probably not going to be pleasant for the orca. Chapter 18 quote:I flat-out was not going to school the next day. I just didn’t care. I went home and fell into my bed with my clothes on and was out cold. David and Rachel aside there, I really liked the conversation between Rachel and Jordan, because that is how it ends to go.
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# ? May 15, 2021 04:43 |
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Epicurius posted:David and Rachel aside there, I really liked the conversation between Rachel and Jordan, because that is how it ends to go. Eh. It sounds nitpicky, but their diction seems kinda off here. Jordan almost seems written too old, and Rachel seems like she doesn't quite know how to talk to children. But... it's her sister. They're not that many years apart.
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# ? May 15, 2021 07:02 |
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Fuschia tude posted:Eh. It sounds nitpicky, but their diction seems kinda off here. Jordan almost seems written too old, and Rachel seems like she doesn't quite know how to talk to children. But... it's her sister. They're not that many years apart. I agree, something about Jordan's dialogue has real "my 10 yo son just asked me why president twunp was so mean to Missus Maddow" tweet energy. I'm willing to at least chalk Rachel's awkwardness up to being insanely stressed and underslept.
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# ? May 15, 2021 07:11 |
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quote:I flat-out was not going to school the next day. I just didn’t care.
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# ? May 15, 2021 08:23 |
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Epicurius posted:Ax interrupted. <David doesn’t know which of us is Tobias. He’s expecting five of us. We are six. The sixth person, the one who conceals his presence, could be any of us.> Ax is once again MVP Epicurius posted:<You want rules, Rachel? I’ll give you rules: Give me the blue box and I’m gone. I’ll go to some other city. I’ll take what I need. I have the power! But I want that box!> However... Rachel is also MVP. Re: the conversation with her little sister, I think the reason it's forced is because it's a shoehorned bit of theme. It went completely over my head as a kid, but it's basically Rachel spouting the just world fallacy, comparing the Saddler situation to David. Because it just as easily could have been David who got the "lucky" shot of being one of the original kids in the construction site, and Rachel who got caught up in poo poo a year later and saw her family infested. And obviously she grasps that on at least a subconscious level. (Whether this actually works or not, YMMV, but that's definitely the point of the conversation.)
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# ? May 15, 2021 12:34 |
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quote:<Cool. Now, hey, go ahead and enjoy your shower.> Ugh, this is so gross.
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# ? May 15, 2021 14:12 |
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I think that David comes across as hypercompetent is another result of the whole storyline only taking up three books. He goes from collapsing in his very first fight to being able to outsmart and outfight all of the battle hardened Animorphs in the span of a couple of hours. But he kind of has to be, otherwise the entire story falls apart.
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# ? May 15, 2021 15:14 |
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Part of that is the nature of guerrilla warfare. David always knows where the Animorphs will be (because they told him their plans/he knows where they live) so he can gently caress with them then escape and finding a single dude who can effortlessly hide anywhere is very hard. There is also the fact that they are hung up on their outdated human ideals of "morality" and "fairness" because they could easily murder this motherfucker but chasing him off 20 times is sustainable for sure.
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# ? May 15, 2021 15:37 |
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Pwnstar posted:There is also the fact that they are hung up on their outdated human ideals of "morality" and "fairness" because they could easily murder this motherfucker but chasing him off 20 times is sustainable for sure. Also known as the Batman Paradox
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# ? May 15, 2021 20:03 |
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CidGregor posted:Also known as the Batman Paradox I was legit thinking about this meme while writing that so others may now enjoy it also if it is to their taste.
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# ? May 16, 2021 01:42 |
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Animorphs Book 22-The Solution, Chapter 19quote:I didn’t feel even slightly safe till two hours had passed. That’s how long David could stay in morph. After that, if he’d been a flea or a cockroach or whatever, he’d be stuck. She's not just questioning what Jake thinks about her. She's questioning what she thinks about her. Chapter 20 quote:You think hospitals are depressing? Try a children’s hospital. You go to a regular hospital and see sick people and you think, Oh, that’s something that happens to old people. You know, like lung cancer or Alzheimer’s or whatever. Now, that's pretty perverse, huh?
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# ? May 16, 2021 04:29 |
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Falling down an elevator shaft counts as dying of natural causes because it was gravity's fault so David isn't a murderer.
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# ? May 16, 2021 04:53 |
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Epicurius posted:Animorphs Book 22-The Solution, Chapter 19 Huh, that's the wrong "blond". That's something I've always been lowkey fascinated by; one of the few gendered adjectives in English.
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# ? May 16, 2021 06:31 |
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I always wondered precisely how David managed to dispose of Saddler's body and now I'm wondering how he disposed of it in that extremely tight timeframe while other people were also in the elevator. But, yeah, loving dark. edit - like, surely as KA you'd just write the doctor to say "Saddler miraculously was conscious this morning" which gives David time to work overnight? Shift the Rachel confrontation to the previous evening or something?
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# ? May 16, 2021 12:12 |
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Animorphs Book 22-The Solution, Chapter 21quote:Jake and I stepped back from the crowd. No one noticed. No one cared. They had a miracle to witness. Sorry about this. I missed this chapter when I posted yesterday, so here it is. Chapter 22 quote:“Jake and I went over every possibility,” I said. “Nothing. Nothing at all. He has us cold.” I looked around at the others. It was a grim-looking little group there in the barn. You can see they're putting on an act here for David, right? Tobias not being there, Marco mentioning Tobias is dead, Jake going out of his way to complement David.... Chapter 23 quote:We left the job of contacting David up to Jake. That last line....I mean, Rachel is worried about her becoming a killer to start with. Epicurius fucked around with this message at 04:00 on May 18, 2021 |
# ? May 17, 2021 03:14 |
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quote:“I don’t want to share a planet with him,” Jake said. “Although I’ll tell you all one thing. I wish it had worked out with David. Whatever else you can say about him, he’s smart, brave, and ingenious.” Their pointless conversation in the next chapter to keep their minds off whatever trap they're laying is also pretty great. Poor kids.
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# ? May 17, 2021 12:54 |
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Seems a bit late to start worrying about killing now. David’s done worse things, intentionally, than however many host body casualties have resulted from their battles with the yeerks. Though I guess I can’t remember them specifically fighting or killing any child hosts. Actually, thinking about it, the Animorphs justifying killing because “host bodies are an unavoidable casualty” or “it’s just a hork bajir” are pretty close to David’s justification that it’s not a crime to kill an animal. Obviously not quite the same but it’s another interesting aspect of his being their dark reflection.
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# ? May 17, 2021 15:01 |
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Seems like it's done for once David decided to become the cousin. His big advantage before was they didn't know where to find him, now they could just go get him.
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# ? May 17, 2021 16:13 |
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Killing another person (aliens are persons) is one of the worst things you could possibly do. However considering the amount of things you could possibly do is infinite then all the things that are better or worse are just different infinities so actually killing people is mathematically proven to be ethical.
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# ? May 17, 2021 16:18 |
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Crespolini posted:Seems like it's done for once David decided to become the cousin. His big advantage before was they didn't know where to find him, now they could just go get him. Eh, he's trying to present them with a fait accompli - killing him now means devastating Jake and Rachel's family. David is over-relying on his own perceived genius and the Animorphs good intentions, which seems like a characteristic mistake for him to make.
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# ? May 17, 2021 19:25 |
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FYI, I'm going to be posting in just a minute, but I realized for whatever reason, I failed to post chapter 21 yesterday, which was a heart to heart between Rachel and Jake. It's been edited into the last book chapters, so if you read that post before now, please double check it.
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# ? May 18, 2021 04:02 |
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Animorphs Book 22-The Solution, Chapter 24quote:David had chosen the ground for our meeting. A public place. Somewhere none of us could morph. It was inside a crowded Taco Bell. You know she jujst wants to pound him. Chapter 25 quote:David and I flew. He was in golden eagle morph, and I was in seagull morph. He kept me out in front. He followed close behind. If he had decided to attack me, I would have been helpless. I was like some little Cessna flying with a 747 behind me. It's not murder if you kill a rat.
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# ? May 18, 2021 04:08 |
That previous chapter, the heart-to-heart, is something else. It's impressive that Jake respects Rachel enough to be straight with her that way. Also that it pretty much says word for word what happens to them both at the end of the war. Also wow David, power tripping much?
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# ? May 18, 2021 04:43 |
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So obviously, David is a jerk, and the books try to lay it on really thick so that his ultimate fate feels justifiable. But reading between the lines, it's also not hard to see exactly how and why the Animorphs failed him—not just because of David's selfishness, but, in a sense, because of their own. See, David is one of those kids who is genuinely smart and resourceful, but thinks way too highly of himself as a consequence, and doesn't understand the difference between succeeding through his own merits and merely getting lucky. He's also probably used to doing things for himself—we don't know a whole lot about his home life, but presumably with both parents working, his dad constantly traveling, and no real friends, he probably grew up mostly alone and finding ways to take care of/entertain himself. He's not used to relying on others, and as part of the Animorphs clearly resents having to do so. But while he's obviously selfish and self-interested, what Jake and the rest of the Animorphs never try to do is make use of his selfishness. Consider how Jake deals with Rachel across the last two books—he knows her, he knows what motivates her, and when the time comes he doesn't hesitate to use her against David. And elsewhere in the series, Jake has been able to clearly identify the strengths and weaknesses of the rest of the team, and tries put them in the best positions to accomplish the mission—and has also known when to look the other way when someone slips up or goes rogue. With David though, Jake is all stick, and no carrot. He expects David to adhere to a rigid moral standard, to follow his orders, to hold his poo poo together in life-or-death combat situations... all for the exciting life of living in a barn, as a fugitive, so he can help fight against a seemingly unstoppable alien threat. It's no wonder that he wants to run out and make a deal instead of fighting—The Animorphs have barely given him a reason to fight. It's easy to see alternatives where things could have gone better. Letting the B&E with the hotel room slide, for instance—the damage was already done, and giving the kid a night to sleep on a real bed and watch some TV would have probably gone over better than moralizing about how the Animorphs don't use their powers to commit crimes (itself blatant hypocrisy considering the literal dozens of crimes they've committed, both during and outside of missions). But more importantly, and most cruelly, the Animorphs blatantly ignore David's clearest desire: to get his parents back. Had Jake said from the very start "Look, poo poo sucks, but if you can put up with it just long enough for us to get through this mission, we'll do everything we can to free your parents," David probably would have gone along with that! But Jake never offers that carrot, nobody even mentions Kandrona starvation, and David (Quite reasonably) gets it into his own head that the only way he can get his parents back is by dealing with Visser Three. Unfortunately for the Animorphs, this is where their own selfishness comes back to haunt them. Each of them is fighting for a reason—Jake for Tom, Marco for his parents, Rachel for revenge, Cassie for the earth, Ax for his people, and Tobias for Elfangor. But in a sense, they're also dependent on the status quo—they'll fight to disrupt the Yeerks, but they're extremely hesitant to disrupt their own lives and living situations, especially when it comes to putting their family members at risk. So when it comes to helping David... they don't. They tell him to put the mission first and forget his family, even as they keep their own families as their top priority, and he obviously resents them for it. This didn't have to turn out the way it did. But for it to go any other way, the Animorphs needed to do two things: They needed to trust David and put his needs above their own, and they needed to give him a personal reason to fight. And they never did.
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# ? May 18, 2021 19:03 |
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They really, really should have asked Erek if David could stay with the Chee. Having a real home would do so much for David's well being and mental state.
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# ? May 18, 2021 19:19 |
Poor David. If he'd shown up anytime other than during the biggest, most dangerous and highest stakes mission they'd ever done, it might have gone differently.
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# ? May 18, 2021 19:27 |
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WrightOfWay posted:They really, really should have asked Erek if David could stay with the Chee. Having a real home would do so much for David's well being and mental state. I like how our standard solution to all the Animorphs' problems is, "Why don't we send these people to stay with the immortal isolationist secretive androids who don't really like humanity that much and are paranoid about people finding out about their identity?"
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# ? May 18, 2021 19:33 |
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Acebuckeye13 posted:Had Jake said from the very start "Look, poo poo sucks, but if you can put up with it just long enough for us to get through this mission, we'll do everything we can to free your parents," David probably would have gone along with that! But Jake never offers that carrot, nobody even mentions Kandrona starvation, and David (Quite reasonably) gets it into his own head that the only way he can get his parents back is by dealing with Visser Three. Jake doesn't do this because it's so unrealistic he'd effectively be lying, and intentionally giving the new kid false hope would be horrific. Kandrona starvation only worked in Jake's case because there was no way for the Yeerks to know either that Jake was a new host or that Jake's Yeerk wasn't boiled like the others; the Animorphs got him out before the Yeerk took control and then immediately set about starving it out. David's parents, on the other hand, are not only known Controllers taken in a high-profile mission, they're probably within Visser Three's sight almost constantly right now. The team would have to find them, kidnap them without harming them (well, harming them further; David's father can only count to nine on his fingers thanks to Ax), get them away safely, keep them hidden for up to three days, and the end result is... they have to go into hiding, from an alien force specifically looking for them, and they can never be taken alive again. Maybe you can give them the morphing ability and put them on the team, but you're probably loving the dynamics up even further by adding two adults whose son is also a member. The Animorphs were in an impossible situation. Strategically (not morally!), the only reasonable thing to do was to kill David themselves, and there was no way they'd do that. The other alternative was to leave him for the Yeerks, which risked pointing them directly at Marco. So they tried to take a third option by adding him to the team, and as it turns out, he's trash and it's not going to work. Epicurius posted:I like how our standard solution to all the Animorphs' problems is, "Why don't we send these people to stay with the immortal isolationist secretive androids who don't really like humanity that much and are paranoid about people finding out about their identity?" Not only can I not imagine David getting along with the Chee, let alone considering their basement "a real home," I also can't imagine the Chee agreeing to house the Yeerks' most-wanted human knowing that their secret is forever hosed if he gets caught.
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# ? May 18, 2021 19:38 |
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The Chee might not agree but its worth asking! And living in the land of dogs is a hell of a lot better than sleeping in a barn and hiding out in the woods or whatever during the day.
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# ? May 18, 2021 20:04 |
I bet David doesn't even like dogs.
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# ? May 18, 2021 20:14 |
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# ? May 26, 2024 11:32 |
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I bet David doesn't even like dogs. Jake: Erek, we need the Chee's help. Erek: Of course, Jake. Anything. Jake: We need the Chee to take in a kid named David. His parents have been taken by the Yeerks and they're hunting him. Erek: I see. Well, I'd like to do it, but I need to talk to the rest of the Chee first. You understand how much we value our privacy, so him staying with us and learning our secret is a big thing to ask. Jake: Well, actually I was wondering if it would be possible for you to find him somewhere else to hide. That would maintain your secrecy, and, well, David doesn't really like dogs. Erek: Never contact me or any other Chee again, Jake!
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# ? May 18, 2021 20:26 |