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https://twitter.com/MSF/status/1393868469536501761?s=19
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May 16, 2021 14:30
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"Doctors Without Borders"? That sort of disregard for territory sounds like a Hamas front, better lob some munitions at them.
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May 16, 2021 14:33
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achillesforever6 posted:Could be worse, Socialist Alternative is anti-BDS Wtf really, source?
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May 16, 2021 14:34
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Whats the best way to support Palestines right to exist/defend its self without being placed on a watch list for donating to an organisation with ties to a terrorist group?
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May 16, 2021 14:55
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mila kunis posted:Wtf really, source? I moved from Seattle to DC last October. The only elected SA party member was my council person Kshama Sawant. She is disliked generally by her voters (formerly myself) for being solely a mouthpiece for the SA and having no original thoughts of her own. However she was pushing the city council left of which there were a bunch of nimbys so we kept electing her. Which more or less aligns with what this thread has been saying about dems and their i&p stance. https://mynorthwest.com/999799/kshama-sawant-seattle-lgbtq-commission-host-anti-semitic-event Theres several other results for "Sawant anti bds" on Google but this is the first one.
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May 16, 2021 15:18
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Budzilla posted:There are major deals going on with smaller states, with the ongoing public behaviour in Arab leaders' attitudes who knows what the situation will be in 5 years time? Not a shift in the Palestinians favour I would assume. UAE is a country where 90% of residents are non-citizen guest workers who have no political influence and the about million citizens are too busy being filthy rich to care about any geopolitical issue. The other Arab countries that aren't Qatar or Bahrain don't have the same luxury. They're not really great points for comparison.
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May 16, 2021 15:20
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mila kunis posted:Wtf really, source? It's not anti-bds in the sense that they don't believe in the Palestinian struggle. It's more like how Norman Finklestein argues about it overall effectiveness and possibilty under the hegemony of the US. That, plus it comes out of the post antiwar left formulation of solidarity and general hatred of ISO and other left groups at the time. Also I'm pretty sure SA have changed their opinion on BDS since then. ughhhh fucked around with this message at 15:48 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 15:45
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SA has active membership there, blanket boycott isn't possible.
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May 16, 2021 16:03
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Can anyone recommend a good documentary or resource for someone like me who mostly focuses on domestic (US) politics bit wants to learn more about I/P and how we got where we are today?
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May 16, 2021 16:05
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cr0y posted:Can anyone recommend a good documentary or resource for someone like me who mostly focuses on domestic (US) politics bit wants to learn more about I/P and how we got where we are today? A Peace to End All Peace by David Fromkin is a really good breakdown of the breakup of the Ottoman Empire/Sykes-Picot if you want a fairly exhaustive account of that process. I'm sure others can suggest more specific resources for 1948-now.
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May 16, 2021 16:11
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punishedkissinger posted:A Peace to End All Peace by David Fromkin is a really good breakdown of the breakup of the Ottoman Empire/Sykes-Picot if you want a fairly exhaustive account of that process. I'll second this, though I don't think it's for a casual reader.
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May 16, 2021 16:38
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Someone in the ME thread also recommended The Last Ottoman Generation which is what it sounds like with the last chapter focusing quite a bit on the situation in the Levant and what lead to the I/P mess. E: it's also somewhat dry and academic but I found it quite readable regardless. Although at times it feels like the author was a pretty big Ottoman fanboy. mobby_6kl fucked around with this message at 17:11 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 17:05
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Rushputin posted:[...]and linked some paper by Mena Watch, which is apparently an Austrian "independent think tank", that he insists debunks my point that Israel is explicitly breaking the conventions by resettling their population. I... saved myself the brain cells. You did the right thing. I'm Austrian and Mena Watch is a conservative, pro-Israel propaganda outlet and certainly not independent. Also it's impossible in this country to criticize Israel in a reasonable manner, without immediately getting called an Antisemite. The country is deeply racist and the reason for the current pro-Israel vibes, is simply that the right-wing government hates Arabs more than they hate Jews. Hammerstein fucked around with this message at 18:36 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 17:30
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Hammerstein posted:The reason for the current pro-Israel vibes, is simply that the right-wing government hates Arabs more than they hate Jews. This is the case for a bunch of places sadly. (Sadly on the point of cheerleading a bunch of ethnic cleansing lovers because of overriding racism obviously, not 'They should be hating jews' or anything dodgy like that)
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May 16, 2021 17:41
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What am I supposed to think about all this as an American Jew? I was brought up learning about brave, plucky underdog Israel defending itself against all the enemies that want to see them dead. Since I've grown up I've recognized that it's not anywhere as black and white as that, and that Israel looks a lot more like the bad guy, but I've been afraid to really engage with these ideas because I don't know how to reconstruct my worldview if I accept that Israel is the evil empire in this case. And this poo poo is... really evil. I have generally believed that Israel should be a Jewish nation because historically we haven't been safe in anyone else's countries, and that it's their right not to accept non-Jewish migrants that could overwhelm their demographics. Maybe this is wrong too? In my heart I want Israel to exist as a strong Jewish nation that just, y'know, lives in peace with the people around it, but the reality of what they're doing is just unbelievably brutal.
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May 16, 2021 17:55
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Palestinians say 174 killed in Gaza since fighting started, 47 of them children Unfortunately the IDF is bombing terrorist hospitals and media buildings so I cant get accurate wounded counts anymore, but expect 1.5-2k wounded at this point. We must also wonder what is happening in the streets that is going unreported. ITs very easy for an Israeli to already go take over a house someone lives in, the next thing to expect is that Israelis are killing their neighbors under the cover of warfare, especially these settlers.
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May 16, 2021 17:57
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Zionists really like to focus on Gaza. They don't even bother justifying poo poo in the west bank anymore. but if you call it "apartheid" they lose their poo poo and ignore anything else you say.
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May 16, 2021 17:58
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Phenotype posted:I have generally believed that Israel should be a Jewish nation because historically we haven't been safe in anyone else's countries, and that it's their right not to accept non-Jewish migrants that could overwhelm their demographics. Maybe this is wrong too? If it helps at all to dispel more of their bogus image, israel doesn't even like other jews a lot of the time if they're not The Right Kind. (Example: The disgusting way they've treated african jews before)
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May 16, 2021 17:59
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If you believe in nationalism, a diaspora of your people is inherently inefficient at best and morally reprehensible at worst. In this way, Israel and antisemitic nationalists the world over have their interests aligned.
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May 16, 2021 18:03
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I think generally dedicating yourself to be some kind of ethnostate will always lead to horrifying oppression of those who aren't the "right" ethnicity (and threatening to purge people who are not a "pure" enough example of that ethnicity). A lot of the modern principles of western democracy are theoretically founded on secularism as well. I don't think this specific scenario was inevitable, but it's pretty easy to see how things led here. As a jewish american, you have no real different amount of responsibility from non-jewish americans.
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May 16, 2021 18:04
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And like there's always this if you want another ugly one "Israeli daily Maariv published an interview with Interior Minister Eli Yishai, in which he stated that "Most of the muslims that arrive here do not even believe that this country belongs to us, to the white man.”" And additionally israel ever having been an "underdog" was always another bogus image op, they've received massive truckloads of money, gear and otherwise support from the US for ages. "Missile attacks from gaza" has always been super loaded too, because without fail a bunch of the "missiles" have historically been like, a pipe bomb hucked over a wall that injures a public road, to which israel then bombs some neighborhood buildings and claims they saw a guy wearing green nearby so it had to go as it was obviously a dastardly terrorist base of operations. Yardbomb fucked around with this message at 18:16 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 18:10
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I love when someone comes out with the 14 words and adds “I don’t know, maybe that’s wrong?”
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May 16, 2021 18:12
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Phenotype posted:What am I supposed to think about all this as an American Jew? I was brought up learning about brave, plucky underdog Israel defending itself against all the enemies that want to see them dead. Since I've grown up I've recognized that it's not anywhere as black and white as that, and that Israel looks a lot more like the bad guy, but I've been afraid to really engage with these ideas because I don't know how to reconstruct my worldview if I accept that Israel is the evil empire in this case. And this poo poo is... really evil. I think you have to acknowledge at a certain point that "Israel must be a Jewish nation" has all the same problems as "America should be a Christian nation" or "India should be a Hindu nation" or any other flavor of the same sentiment. While the idea of creating an enclave of like-minded people is obviously appealing, it absolutely does NOT work on any level of organization larger than a local church without creating antipathy for the other. The fact that people in Israel are treated as lesser unless they are Jewish, and that Jewishness is the combination of being born to a ethnically Jewish family and professing to the belief of Judaism in terms of how the government and culture treats it gives it the worst of both worlds between racism and religious discrimination. This is part of why the idea of integrating Palestinians is such a non-starter, because the politicians and many people voting for them unironically are worried about "The Great Replacement" and talk about how if they gave Palestinians voting rights they would become the majority and begin oppressing Jews. Maybe if Israel hadn't spent the last 50 years doing exactly that to Palestinians a road to peace would be possible, but I don't think the region can both be truly democratic and also non-discriminatory for the foreseeable future because the enmity is generational at this point. That's not to say that the status quo is acceptable, just that it is self-reinforcing in a way that makes any alternative completely unpalatable to the people with power currently, and this was a foreseeable consequence of the premise of "a state just for us" from the start, despite the noble intentions. I made a despair post about a week back about all the ways that forward progress is impossible given the status quo, and given the developments since then my outlook is even grimmer to be honest. There's no ideal outcome for Palestinians given the current environment, the best-case for them would be something still awful like the region being administered by an international coalition in a pseudo-colonialist fashion instead of Israel treating them in a literally colonialist fashion currently. Edit: Let's also be clear, it's not your fault for being Jewish, as other people have said, these are the actions of the Israeli government and unless you voted for Bibi you don't really have any responsibility for the situation. The reinforcement of an international combined Jewish-Israeli identity is a deliberate PR campaign by Israel to give them political cover for their actions - the Birthright program is a way to evangelize to people in other countries to create a reliable issue voting bloc, and their constant deflection of criticism as Anti-Semitism through government channels and groups like AIPAC is a deliberate conflation designed to create an indelible link between the two. It's the flip side of the "international Jewish conspiracy" coin, where Israel is able to use actual Anti-Semitism to make people defend Israel reflexively when they hear someone say something about Israel's international influence BougieBitch fucked around with this message at 18:39 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 18:21
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Israel also shoots people in wheelchairs, shoots people detained and handcuffed on the ground and kills foreign protestors with bulldozers they were en route to kill/displace some more of those nasty terrorists who are terrorizing our poor concerned settlers by sitting in their living room and existing with. Like if you're willing to believe in any reality of the situation, israel is rotten as gently caress.
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May 16, 2021 18:24
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Yardbomb posted:Israel also shoots people in wheelchairs, shoots people detained and handcuffed on the ground and kills foreign protestors with bulldozers they were en route to kill/displace some more of those nasty terrorists who are terrorizing our poor concerned settlers by sitting in their living room and existing with. The first 60,000 Jewish people to emigrate to Palestine were german jews who bought their right to leave before the holocaust occured. so take that for what it is .https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement
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May 16, 2021 18:27
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:The first 60,000 Jewish people to emigrate to Palestine were german jews who bought their right to leave before the holocaust occured. There were Jews who came to Israel before that (during the 20s) and there's always been some Jews left in the country so that's just wrong. By the time of the haavara there were already well established Jewish settlements I'm the area both from immigrants and jess who had lived there a while, if I'm remembering correctly. e: there were multiple jewish/arab riots and massacres in the 20s, so yeah.
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May 16, 2021 18:36
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Phenotype posted:What am I supposed to think about all this as an American Jew? I was brought up learning about brave, plucky underdog Israel defending itself against all the enemies that want to see them dead. Since I've grown up I've recognized that it's not anywhere as black and white as that, and that Israel looks a lot more like the bad guy, but I've been afraid to really engage with these ideas because I don't know how to reconstruct my worldview if I accept that Israel is the evil empire in this case. And this poo poo is... really evil. Yeah, well, there are other people in what Israel considers to be their territory as a "Jewish nation", so it just isn't feasible without evil racism. Such is life.
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May 16, 2021 18:38
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Aliyah
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May 16, 2021 18:39
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You only have three real outcomes of an ethnostate, assuming you want it to continue being that: 1. Ensure a racial isolationist system exist so that no minorities/non-ethnics exist in your state at all (which is impossible to start with outside of building one in Antarctica) and then enact strict borders that never lets them into your country or marry any of your people, strict rules to eliminate any that slip in anyway, and ensure you never have any groups that splinter off to develop their own ethnic identity. 2. Establish an explicit apartheid system that designates non-ethnic individuals within the country as a permanent underclass that can never gain rights that might threaten the power of the dominant ethnic class, but allow them to exist in the country so long long as they can be exploited for resources to benefit the ruling group 3. Allow non-ethnic individuals into your country by establishing a system that weakens the social and political power of non-ethnic groups ensuring they can never outperform the dominant group, no matter how many children they have or how many sympathizers they pull to their side. This one is the most internationally acceptable, but is also the type most likely to lead to "race traitors" sympathizing with the ethnic minority (due to exposure) who will need to be similarly controlled and limited in power. Most ethnostates pursue a mix of all three, but all of them are morally reprehensible and there's no escaping them. Also, all of them require the normal state stuff like an ability to fight off would be aggressors through arms or allies. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 18:45 on May 16, 2021 |
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May 16, 2021 18:42
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It's a shame that the last Aaliyah had to be Queen of the Damned. (Stupid joke)
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May 16, 2021 18:45
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Yardbomb posted:Israel also shoots people in wheelchairs, shoots people detained and handcuffed on the ground and kills foreign protestors with bulldozers they were en route to kill/displace some more of those nasty terrorists who are terrorizing our poor concerned settlers by sitting in their living room and existing with.
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May 16, 2021 19:47
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The IDF are for real one of the most jackbooted groups of massive baby bitches attached to any government, I'm surprised they don't die of heart attacks when any single armed person ever fires back at them, with it being such a drastic change of their usual encounters of murdering children and unarmed protestors.
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May 16, 2021 19:57
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Yardbomb posted:The IDF are for real one of the most jackbooted groups of massive baby bitches attached to any government, I'm surprised they don't die of heart attacks when any single armed person ever fires back at them, with it being such a drastic change of their usual encounters of murdering children and unarmed protestors.
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May 16, 2021 19:59
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FlamingLiberal posted:Not to mention all of the protesters they've shot. In 2019 they shot a ton of protesters who were gathering near a security fence. They weren't being violent or anything, but the guards on the wall just started sniping them repeatedly. They killed a visibly labelled medic in 2017/18, shot in the head while treating someone else who was just sniped at. Then said she was 'no angel' because they had footage of her throwing a smoke grenade. You know, to cover being shot while treating others.
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May 16, 2021 20:00
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I thought the smoke grenade was one launched by the IDF, which she then grabbed and threw away from the gravely injured people to whom she was tending?
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May 16, 2021 20:06
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https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/1393755654414811137 holy gently caress ro, that's an insanely poo poo tweet https://twitter.com/RoKhanna/status/1393879286537498629 still really poo poo!!!
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May 16, 2021 20:35
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An Israeli startup probably made an app that gives your search history to Mossad/Blackcube in exchange for new Snapchat filters, therefore genocide is cool actually
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May 16, 2021 20:42
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"the saudis aren't ~innovators~ and ~entrepreneurs~ so it's completely different
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May 16, 2021 20:42
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Wow, "no startup culture" was the very second defense he offered. I have no idea who that guy is, does he even oppose the war in Yemen (based on the 350k dead people he mentioned), or what?
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May 16, 2021 20:42
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Yardbomb posted:The IDF are for real one of the most jackbooted groups of massive baby bitches attached to any government, I'm surprised they don't die of heart attacks when any single armed person ever fires back at them, with it being such a drastic change of their usual encounters of murdering children and unarmed protestors. the saudi armed forces who managed to somehow lose a genocide exist yknow Oh you said 'one of the most'
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May 16, 2021 20:43
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