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I want to go back to snippet from Walensky that has been widely quoted. Or has it been misquoted?quote:We also need to say that this is not permission for widespread removal of masks, for those who are vaccinated. It may take some time for them to feel comfortable removing their masks. That’s my punctation. I believe it is correct, but it could reasonably be punctuated as follows. quote:We also need to say that this is not permission for widespread removal of masks. For those who are vaccinated, it may take some time for them to feel comfortable removing their masks. Either version patronizes vaccinated persons for not feeling comfortable, but that’s the smaller fry here. What is she saying? “this is not permission for widespread removal of masks”, period? This is the version the headline editors like, suggesting a walk back. Or is it the other reading, the one where she maintains the fiction that only the vaccinated are emboldened by the latest from CDC and walks back nothing?
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May 17, 2021 07:13
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Platystemon posted:I want to go back to snippet from Walensky that has been widely quoted. Or has it been misquoted? I've been operating under the assumption she is not walking things back, and is content to let the fallout happen at the level of states and businesses. I know around here a lot of stores are keeping their mask requirements in place, but we'll see if that continues. I went to my local Safeway tonight and they still have a big sign up requiring masks, which is well within businesses' purview, but I don't know how much I can expect them to keep with it if people start flogging the CDC guidance as an excuse.
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May 17, 2021 07:45
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Platystemon posted:I want to go back to snippet from Walensky that has been widely quoted. Or has it been misquoted? Here's that quote in the context of the full interview. Timestamped to 3:20: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP1vYnExV4g&t=200s I dunno  Note that she's note super great at public speaking, jump to 6:45 for a great example of this "You didn't require death"
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May 17, 2021 08:01
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Platystemon posted:Walensky also says, in the Raddatz interview, “if you were to develop an infection—even if you got vaccinated—you can’t transmit that infection to other people”. It's certainly not supported by anything I've seen, all the evidence is that if you have Coronavirus after vaccination you can still spread it but at a lesser rate than if you weren't vaccinated. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-can-cut-household-transmission-by-up-to-half
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May 17, 2021 08:44
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On the topic of relaxing restrictions. https://www.thelocal.se/20210512/sweden-delays-relaxation-of-covid-19-events-restrictions-until-at-least-june-1st/ The Local posted:[...] This proposed relaxation was planned to come into effect from May 17th, after being postponed twice already. And the Public Health Authority (similar to the CDC's responsibilities) has announced guideline numbers for what is the "acceptable" levels before relaxing any restrictions, regarding: * infections per 100 k * hospitalizations * ICU admissions Of course, it's up to politicians to decide to follow those recommendations, but they will. I don't know why it would be so hard for other countries to do similarly: base policies on empirical evidence of reduced contagion. "If we have less than 200 infections per 100k in a two-week period, it's fine to <X>"
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May 17, 2021 11:42
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I found the rare thing so pure in it’s stupidity that will unite the thread. The BBC has decided that the volume of your voice should decide if you wear a mask or not. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-57087517 What fools we have been, we could have been unmasked all along if only we had known to whisper.
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May 17, 2021 12:29
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learnincurve posted:I found the rare thing so pure in it’s stupidity that will unite the thread. I read an article months ago that suggested the covid numbers in Asia might be lower than the west because their people are so soft spoken. People keep writing articles about this stuff. quote:(REUTERS) - More quiet zones in high-risk indoor spaces, such as hospitals and restaurants, could help to cut coronavirus contagion risks, researchers have said, after a study showed that lowering speaking volume can reduce the spread of the disease. quote:Recorded music at food and beverage (F&B) outlets can only be played softly in the background so patrons do not have to raise their voices to be heard, Education Minister Lawrence Wong said at a virtual press conference yesterday. There's always more and it's always way more dumber than you could have ever suspected 
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May 17, 2021 12:42
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An honest to God conversation I overheard at the grocery store this weekend. "I know 6 people who died of the vaccine already. And they're not even reporting that." "I heard you only have a 1% chance of dying of covid, that's why I'm not vaccinating or vaccinating my kids." "Exactly. You have a 4000% chance of getting symptoms from the vaccine instead of just getting covid." I got a bad feeling that these two might not keep up with mask mandates, just a hunch.
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May 17, 2021 12:49
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learnincurve posted:I found the rare thing so pure in it’s stupidity that will unite the thread. The charts do come off as incredibly stupid, because they seem to focus on loudness rather than the real take-away of the article, which is staying outdoors and limiting time spent. There's some dissonance between the messaging of the text and the illustrations.  They do seem to get each individual piece of information correct, don't they? They just seem to stumble on the landing by the repeated mention of loudness. Like, this is very sensible advice: quote:Such actions can make us feel more in control, but Dr Hughes said it would be better to focus on "duration, proximity and avoiding enclosed spaces".
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May 17, 2021 13:26
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Saros posted:It's certainly not supported by anything I've seen, all the evidence is that if you have Coronavirus after vaccination you can still spread it but at a lesser rate than if you weren't vaccinated. That's after one dose not after being fully vaccinated. It's very, very unlikely for a fully vaccinated person to have enough of a viral load to be contagious even if they become infected. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/14/health/cdc-masks-vaccines-variants.html Saying that fully vaccinated people will still spread the virus is an argument that anti-vaxxers use to justify not getting vaccinated.
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May 17, 2021 14:16
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A family member was stating that he heard that you can mix up your shots in that you can get pfizer for your first shot and then AZ or Moderna for the second shot and things should still be good. Is this possible or good to do?
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May 17, 2021 14:25
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TV Zombie posted:A family member was stating that he heard that you can mix up your shots in that you can get pfizer for your first shot and then AZ or Moderna for the second shot and things should still be good. I certainly wouldn't do it intentionally. I wouldn't be surprised if it was fine and if I'd had it done accidentally, I'd probably be able to feel okay about it. They just haven't done any studies on it that I know of and going outside the tried and tested course of action doesn't seem like a good idea to me.
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May 17, 2021 14:32
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EugeneDebsWasCool posted:
But people in this thread have said that  
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May 17, 2021 14:32
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TV Zombie posted:A family member was stating that he heard that you can mix up your shots in that you can get pfizer for your first shot and then AZ or Moderna for the second shot and things should still be good. quote:The safety and efficacy of a mixed-product series have not been evaluated. Both doses of the series should be completed with the same product. quote:every effort should be made to determine which vaccine product was received as the first dose to ensure completion of the vaccine series with the same product. In exceptional situations in which the mRNA vaccine product given for the first dose cannot be determined or is no longer available, any available mRNA COVID-19 vaccine may be administered at a minimum interval of 28 days between doses to complete the mRNA COVID-19 vaccination series. In situations where the same mRNA vaccine product is temporarily unavailable, it is preferable to delay the second dose (up to 6 weeks) to receive the same product than to receive a mixed series using a different product. If two doses of different mRNA COVID-19 vaccine products are administered in these situations (or inadvertently), no additional doses of either product are recommended at this time. Such persons are considered fully vaccinated against COVID-19 ≥2 weeks after receipt of the second dose of an mRNA vaccine. quote:Although CDC provides considerations for a mixed series in exceptional circumstances, this is still considered an administration error that requires VAERS reporting (as a mixed series is not authorized under the vaccine Emergency Use Authorizations). https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/info-by-product/clinical-considerations.html#vaccinating-exposure That’s what the U.S. CDC says, anyway. I know there was a talk of a trial of mixed doses in the UK, but I don’t know what came of it.
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May 17, 2021 14:35
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wilderthanmild posted:I certainly wouldn't do it intentionally. I wouldn't be surprised if it was fine and if I'd had it done accidentally, I'd probably be able to feel okay about it. They just haven't done any studies on it that I know of and going outside the tried and tested course of action doesn't seem like a good idea to me. The UK is finishing up a smaller study on exactly this around the end of the month.
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May 17, 2021 14:35
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learnincurve posted:I found the rare thing so pure in it’s stupidity that will unite the thread. Anything to get people who won’t shut the gently caress up to knock it off
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May 17, 2021 14:36
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I like when every poster in the thread has knives pulled on every other poster for like 3 pages before everyone realizes we're all talking about the same thing lol
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May 17, 2021 14:37
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Whispering probably is legitimately safer than talking at normal volume, but I really don’t see that as a winning public health message. We should try to push that choirs are just about the worst activity possible in a respiratory pandemic. Woodwind instruments might be worse. That’s about it.
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May 17, 2021 14:39
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Platystemon posted:Whispering probably is legitimately safer than talking at normal volume, but I really don’t see that as a winning public health message. white dread drum circles in outdoor plazas are a GO then
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May 17, 2021 14:48
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Platystemon posted:Whispering probably is legitimately safer than talking at normal volume, but I really don’t see that as a winning public health message. Choirs are worse than anything else including wind instruments according to what I've read. Woodwinds like a clarinet or saxophone actually put out air at a very slow rate (in terms of velocity) compared to the puffs of speaking loudly or singing. The possible worst culprit might be flutes, because you blow fast air straight out into the room, but I don't know if it's been compared to singing specifically. The only sane conclusion to draw is that everyone unvaccinated should avoid singing or playing together indoors, but that is already covered by the recommendation to avoid meeting other people indoors. TV Zombie posted:A family member was stating that he heard that you can mix up your shots in that you can get pfizer for your first shot and then AZ or Moderna for the second shot and things should still be good. In addition to the above statements, Oxford researchers recently concluded that the known mild side effects (myalgia, fever etc) are slightly worse when mixing. No word on the efficacy/immunity if I read it correctly. It does not seem unreasonable that two mixed doses would work better than just one dose, but I'd wait for the official studies before trying that on myself.  https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57075503 https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2021-04-14-alternating-vaccines-trial-expands-include-two-additional-vaccines-0 The reason for studying it, I think is because Sweden are considering not giving people a second dose of the AZ for safety reasons. Edit: I misremembered, the study is run by Oxford U. Hippie Hedgehog fucked around with this message at 14:58 on May 17, 2021 |
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May 17, 2021 14:49
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aren't there some people in the thread with 3 vaccines in their body and they feel fine/indestructible
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May 17, 2021 14:52
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Hippie Hedgehog posted:The only sane conclusion to draw is that everyone unvaccinated should avoid singing or playing together indoors, but that is already covered by the recommendation to avoid meeting other people indoors. People who I otherwise respect have been having their children participate in choir. They’re not stupid. They are tragically mislead by essentially the totality of society.
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May 17, 2021 14:58
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EugeneDebsWasCool posted:That's after one dose not after being fully vaccinated. Anti-vaxxers are going to use a bunch of nonsense arguments to justify not getting vaccinated and there's no value in attempting to craft messages around what their response is going to be rather than crafting messages around reality.
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May 17, 2021 15:12
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texas covid deaths have essentially stopped at this point, doomers btfo
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May 17, 2021 15:18
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Thoguh posted:Anti-vaxxers are going to use a bunch of nonsense arguments to justify not getting vaccinated and there's no value in attempting to craft messages around what their response is going to be rather than crafting messages around reality. I agree but there's also no sense in repeating their talking points particularly when they've been shown to be untrue.
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May 17, 2021 15:18
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Thoguh posted:Anti-vaxxers are going to use a bunch of nonsense arguments to justify not getting vaccinated and there's no value in attempting to craft messages around what their response is going to be rather than crafting messages around reality. Yeah pretty much. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again: playing four-dimensional chess with public health messaging does not work. Be honest with the facts, to the public and to yourself.
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May 17, 2021 15:20
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EugeneDebsWasCool posted:That's after one dose not after being fully vaccinated. Is that based on the Israeli study? Because one of the (many!) assumptions in that preprint was that fully vaxxed people were absolutely passing on the infection to other fully vaxxed people quote:Fourth, it has been estimated that 33% of all cases in Israel are due to household transmission. As about 50% of 60+ individuals live in a household of only two individuals and are likely to be both vaccinated, some of the events in our data must reflect the transmission from a vaccinated person toanother vaccinated person. If the viral load is correlated between individuals, our analysis may overestimate tosome extent the viral load reduction by vaccination. However, we believe that this confounder is relatively mild. They also didn't know the vaccination status of the people used for the study but assumed that the age cohort 60+ were more likely to have been vaxxed than the younger cohort and assumed that would explain any difference in the averaged Ct values of positive qPCRtests between the two groups, ignoring the huge amount of NPIs that were in place during the testing period, the fact that people aged 60+ were much much more likely to be isolating and the fact that people aged 60+ were a much much smaller percentage of the population. Thoguh posted:Anti-vaxxers are going to use a bunch of nonsense arguments to justify not getting vaccinated and there's no value in attempting to craft messages around what their response is going to be rather than crafting messages around reality. Yeah the CDC & the White House have hosed up over and over by trying to steer the public pandemic response in placating terms rather than just speaking openly and plainly. The fact that they tried to convince the general public that they didn't need to wear masks because they were afraid people would hoard all the N95s and there'd be none for hospitals is the biggest example. It's especially egregious considering the fact that most hospitals didn't give a poo poo and made their staff wear the same N95 mask for a month and fashion gowns out of garbage bags because they didn't want to spend any $$$$$ on more PPE anyway. And in the end when they had to do an about face and start begging people to wear masks (and even recommended double masking!) their inconsistent messaging was just playing into the hands of the anti-vaxx crowd
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May 17, 2021 15:22
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EugeneDebsWasCool posted:I agree but there's also no sense in repeating their talking points particularly when they've been shown to be untrue. It is an untrue statement to say that we know that vaccinated people cannot spread COVID. People insisting on rounding up small risks and small chances and declaring them to be zero are doing a lot more damage than anything gained by lieing to people and declaring they are immune and can just totally forget about COVID once they are vaccinated.
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May 17, 2021 15:22
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Thoguh posted:It is an untrue statement to say that we know that vaccinated people cannot spread COVID. People insisting on rounding up small risks and small chances and declaring them to be zero are doing a lot more damage than anything gained by lieing to people and declaring they are immune and can just totally forget about COVID once they are vaccinated. perhaps people like you dooming about post-vaccinated spread could offer an alternate way out of the pandemic (you don't want it because your life revolves around being miserable on the computer)
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May 17, 2021 15:27
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stellers bae posted:(you don't want it because your life revolves around being miserable on the computer) 
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May 17, 2021 15:28
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stellers bae posted:perhaps people like you dooming about post-vaccinated spread could offer an alternate way out of the pandemic (you don't want it because your life revolves around being miserable on the computer) I see that you're not bothering to reply to the actual point and going straight to an attack because you know your point isn't valid and you don't have a good response. So congrats on that. But the early guidance last year was that we'd emerged from the pandemic when there was less than 10 cases per 100k people per week. That seems like an okay metric to me. I'd like for us to reach that metric.
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May 17, 2021 15:29
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stellers bae posted:perhaps people like you dooming about post-vaccinated spread could offer an alternate way out of the pandemic (you don't want it because your life revolves around being miserable on the computer) Maintain restrictions until infections drop below a pre-determined level, vaxx the gently caress out of everyone in the meantime.
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May 17, 2021 15:30
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Thoguh posted:I see that you're not bothering to reply to the actual point and going straight to an attack because you know your point isn't valid and you don't have a good response. So congrats on that. you lost and the chads are back in the bar. sorry man
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May 17, 2021 15:31
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stellers bae posted:you lost and the chads are back in the bar. sorry man Oh wow, I am totally owned. Good job. Just devestating.
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May 17, 2021 15:33
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Thoguh posted:Oh wow, I am totally owned. Good job. Just devestating. get vaxxed and trust the science
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May 17, 2021 15:38
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The ownage continue, I'm just down for the count here.
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May 17, 2021 15:41
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stellers bae posted:get vaxxed and trust the science Over 52% of the US population are completely unvaxxed as of right now https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations 30% of Americans currently say they don't plan on getting the vaxx https://www.pewresearch.org/science/2021/03/05/growing-share-of-americans-say-they-plan-to-get-a-covid-19-vaccine-or-already-have/ Vaccines could have ended the pandemic in the US but that's just not going to happen in this reality. What's your next suggestion? Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 02:14 on May 18, 2021 |
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May 17, 2021 15:49
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let the unvaxxed get covid and die, who cares
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May 17, 2021 15:56
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:Over 62% of the US population are completely unvaxxed as of right now I hate to say it but I've pretty much accepted that some portion of my wife's family will die of covid in the next year because they refuse to get vaccinated or take even the most basic precautions when not forced to. Not a good feeling at all but better than spending the last 12 months convinced my parents were going to die because they took every precaution imaginable but somebody at the grocery store would cough on my Dad. I'm definitely not out there yelling "COVID IS OVER, LET ME SEE YOUR BEAUTIFUL SMILES AGAIN!" but I have reached a point of acceptance that we'll never be able to protect everybody in the United States, because not everybody can take even the SLIGHTEST bit of personal responsibility. What does suck is people who can't get vaccinated for health reasons and is still at risk, and I hope we reach enough of a vaccination rate for those people.
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May 17, 2021 16:08
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ben shapino posted:let the unvaxxed get covid and die, who cares As one of more than 10 million Americans who will never be able to get vaxxed effectively, I guess I care a little bit. Not mentioning the millions of kids under 12 who are still going to be waiting months to a year to get theirs.
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May 17, 2021 16:09
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