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buglord posted:Despite all odds I’ve made it to the third and final round of the interview. I don’t think I can kick the salary can down the road any longer. They're not gonna pick a less qualified guy for 5k after three rounds of interviews, at least not without negotiating with you about it. At that point, they've made the decision about what choice number you are, and will only bump you down if you ask something outrageous like 75k or 10 weeks vacation. They won't have more than 3 guys in my experience, and probably just you and possibly one other guy.
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May 14, 2021 20:37
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buglord posted:Despite all odds I’ve made it to the third and final round of the interview. I don’t think I can kick the salary can down the road any longer.
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May 14, 2021 20:38
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Okay cool. Thanks for the input everyone. It’s an exciting yet also scary world of potentially making more than peanuts each check.
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May 14, 2021 20:41
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Chaotic Flame posted:Was this after you responded holding firm at 200K or did they come back to you on their own?
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May 14, 2021 23:43
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I feel like this is a dumb question, but if I'm going into a final (HR/negotiation focused) interview where I'm 95% sure I have the job, should I avoid making any final agreements immediately following the interview? IE let it marinate a day, think things over, organize a counteroffer? Or is it normal/okay to sign on dotted lines if I get terms I like? My gut says the answer is "if you won, sign, if you didn't then ask for time to think on it and build a counterproposal". So far everything has gone very well, seems like a good opportunity and I'd fit in well, so just wanna make sure I avoid blunders like being too hasty at the finish line.
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May 15, 2021 02:29
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fourwood posted:Speaking to a broader point there does seem to be a lot of tension out there between two commonly held ideas of “if you don’t negotiate then you’re basically making sure you’re underpaid forever” and “your new job has no business knowing what you make at your current/old job”. Not at all. Two points about this. One, if you work (or have worked) at a big company and are applying to a big company, they know your current/past salary, and will anchor accordingly. Big companies routinely share this information via third party data collectors. Two, for the vast majority of people, how much money a person is making now absolutely affects how much money they'll be willing to ask for, and insist on, with a straight face. And this is definitely even more true of the kind of person who accepts a bad deal because they were too green/timid to boldly negotiate. So yes, the money you leave on the table early in your career absolutely can snowball more and more and more over the decades.
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May 15, 2021 02:37
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I posted about this in the USAJobs thread, but it's probably more appropriate here. Situation: Just got offer today for a $34/hour contract-to-hire (obv no benefits) job that needs a person ASAP. The Hiring person offered me the position day of. On the other side, I have a GS-7 ladder position (approximately $22/hour at minimum, but no higher than just under $30/hour at base that'll eventually hit $48 after 3-4 years) that I have a tentative offer that I've accepted and in the middle of. The contract job wants a decision by Monday Issue one: I'm debating which job to pick. I'm the only one that can answer it ultimately and it's basically a question of safety vs. $$$ and the different job expectations respective to those pay grades. Issue two: If I were to choose the Gov't job, is it worth it for me to try and negotiate for a higher base pay by claiming the offer from the contract job to get an actual official letter of offer and then going around and burning them by declining partway through the notice period after they picked me since I'd likely need some documentation to substantiate my position in negotiation?
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May 15, 2021 02:44
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Pander posted:I feel like this is a dumb question, but if I'm going into a final (HR/negotiation focused) interview where I'm 95% sure I have the job, should I avoid making any final agreements immediately following the interview? IE let it marinate a day, think things over, organize a counteroffer? Or is it normal/okay to sign on dotted lines if I get terms I like? My gut says the answer is "if you won, sign, if you didn't then ask for time to think on it and build a counterproposal". It’s a major life decision. You should never ever accept it right away no matter how excellent the offer is. Always take at least a few days to marinate on it
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May 15, 2021 03:20
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Eric the Mauve posted:Not at all. Two points about this. If this happens to you in the EU, or (I think) in an EU based company, it's very much illegal because of GDPR. This is worth knowing in case the company screwed you over, because you get a pretty nuclear option of reporting them, which could lead to solve serious fines. I think this would also apply in most places that copied the GDPR, possibly even California.
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May 15, 2021 06:52
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buglord posted:Despite all odds I’ve made it to the third and final round of the interview. I don’t think I can kick the salary can down the road any longer. They'll always work you down. If you want 60, ask for 65.
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May 15, 2021 11:51
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BonHair posted:If this happens to you in the EU, or (I think) in an EU based company, it's very much illegal because of GDPR. This is worth knowing in case the company screwed you over, because you get a pretty nuclear option of reporting them, which could lead to solve serious fines. I think this would also apply in most places that copied the GDPR, possibly even California. Selling your salary bands and buying other people's salary bands is illegal? None of the data is at the person level, and they may not know where in the band you are, but HR at bigco absolutely knows the salary bands for level 62 vs 63 at msft or whatever. It's part of how the company ensures they're paying competitively. Or justifying not paying competitively by self-identifying as competing in a lower pay industry.
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May 15, 2021 11:58
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Xelkelvos posted:
That seems like a pretty bad plan to me. You don't need a paper that says your alternative number, you just need to know and be willing to take your "best alternative to negotiated agreement." Your own confidence to walk away if you don't get what you need is what backs the negotiation, not a paper from a third party. You don't need to string anyone along or act in bad faith for either of these places. You just need to let them know you have options and that their current offers are not removing all doubt from your mind and convincing you to sign, you need something more.
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May 15, 2021 12:22
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PIZZA.BAT posted:It’s a major life decision. You should never ever accept it right away no matter how excellent the offer is. Always take at least a few days to marinate on it
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May 15, 2021 12:29
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leper khan posted:Selling your salary bands and buying other people's salary bands is illegal? None of the data is at the person level, and they may not know where in the band you are, but HR at bigco absolutely knows the salary bands for level 62 vs 63 at msft or whatever. It's part of how the company ensures they're paying competitively. Or justifying not paying competitively by self-identifying as competing in a lower pay industry. Having data like that is legal yeah. But at least in the places I've worked, that only tells you about the floor. Your new place can only say that your band is x-y, not if you're actually exceeding it. And also be company doesn't automatically know which band you fit into. But my experience is in a much different world I admit, where there are three categories for non-management and about the same for management, and everything else is more or less negotiable up to absurd amounts.
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May 15, 2021 13:19
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Dik Hz posted:I kinda lightly disagree. If you get what you want, go ahead and take it. A big part of the process is knowing when you've won and taking it. Even if you would jump at the offer I think it is best to say "The offer sounds really great and I do want to accept. Can you send me it in writing so I can make sure I understood all the particulars of the salary/bonus/401k/etc.?" or something like it. You can accept 10 seconds after you review it if you want.
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May 15, 2021 18:31
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I think it's important to know what your goal is and know when you've won, but it's never a bad idea to sleep on any major decision over night. "I'm excited to review all of these written details tonight and I'll get back to you tomorrow". But if you've gotten an excellent offer and you know you've won, don't drag your feet on accepting it.
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May 15, 2021 18:46
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Xelkelvos posted:I posted about this in the USAJobs thread, but it's probably more appropriate here. What do you mean tentative offer? A conditional offer, and you're now going through security clearance or whatever? If so, that is 1. Not guaranteed and 2. Depending on the job, could be anywhere from a few weeks to a year or more before a real offer materializes. Assuming you either aren't working now or that either of these jobs are preferable to what you're doing, I would personally start at the contract to hire job, try to use that salary to negotiate your starting step whenever your fed job offer appears.
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May 15, 2021 23:13
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buglord posted:Despite all odds I’ve made it to the third and final round of the interview. I don’t think I can kick the salary can down the road any longer. It’s usually way more important to get the right candidate than to save 5k. Unless, like someone said above me, they’re poo poo. It can also cost way, WAY more than 5k to hire the wrong guy.
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May 16, 2021 05:19
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I’m chuckling a bit about how bad I potentially hosed myself in accepting my current role, but at least it was basically lateral with mitigating circumstances that I needed to relocate home ASAP (and zero confidence). Ah well. The company I posted about before that I turned down reached out again last week (figured no harm to discuss). Came home from PTO and went to dinner with another one of their higher-ups. Supposed to hear today but no response so far. They’ll really need to do something if they want me on this project, the radio silence today is a bit odd though.
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May 17, 2021 23:06
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Chaotic Flame posted:Was this after you responded holding firm at 200K or did they come back to you on their own? This was after a phone call in which I said I really wouldn't be interested in moving at the lower end of the payscale. I should have held firm at a number but whatever. Anyways, had a call with the president and already got good feedback. Now I'm wondering if I should ask for even a bit more if I get the offer...
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May 18, 2021 07:12
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did you already agree on a number or not?
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May 18, 2021 13:48
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:did you already agree on a number or not? Nope, not yet. It's at "we wanted to pay you like 160" and I said "no" and they said "well OK I guess we can pay you senior director money"
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May 18, 2021 23:49
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you're good to ask for whatever, then
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May 19, 2021 01:54
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bolind posted:It’s usually way more important to get the right candidate than to save 5k. Unless, like someone said above me, they’re poo poo. I asked 60k per thread advice, and managed to do it at the absolute very end of the interviewing process. I felt way too bold asking for 63k (max for this role) given that I felt I missed some of their “nice to haves” on the job posting. 55k as the floor was already 5k more than I expected. HR didn’t really bat an eye at the number I gave either.
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May 19, 2021 04:21
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You should ignore half the requirements before you apply and all of them once you get an interview.
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May 19, 2021 04:39
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buglord posted:I asked 60k per thread advice, and managed to do it at the absolute very end of the interviewing process. I felt way too bold asking for 63k (max for this role) given that I felt I missed some of their “nice to haves” on the job posting. 55k as the floor was already 5k more than I expected. HR didn’t really bat an eye at the number I gave either. Sooooooooooooo . . . you got 60? I feel like you're leaving out the details here lol Parallelwoody posted:You should ignore half the requirements before you apply and all of them once you get an interview. Also this. A job posting is a fuckin' wish list with absolutely nothing even resembling a passing acquaintance with reality. If you got an interview, then you're pretty much in the Top 3 (if there are even two others at all). From that point, it's just a matter of getting the most for your time without violating any social norms TOO badly. Then, at some point, you'll (hopefully) have made enough money that you walk into interviews saying "Don't ask me about salary, I don't even WANT this job. However, I am interested in the value you think I'll provide, what I'll be doing, and how much that's worth to you; if that all lines up, then we can talk about start date." My buddy's dad is a Professional Businessman and this is apparently how he approaches interviews in his post-retirement; I suspect he is making more now than he did pre-retirement.
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May 19, 2021 04:58
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Oh, yeah looking back at that now, thats only half a story. Yeah that's where things are at currently. Finished the 3 person, 2 hour long interview which wraps up the 3 interview rounds. Told HR at the very end during the post-interview talk that I wanted 60k. They said they'd have an answer if I got the job or not by the end of the week.
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May 19, 2021 05:05
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buglord posted:Oh, yeah looking back at that now, thats only half a story. Not sure what time of day you got that message, but I'm here with an offer of Hope The Worst Offer  After my interviews the recruiter was like "yeah so you're good at the agreed upon offer yeah!?!?!" and I was like "Uh, no, I gave that number assuming all things being equal but your bennies are diff and more out of pocket so I need 10% more, soz" and she was like "UGH IDK IF THEY WILL GO FOR IT AND IT'S LATE AND A FRIDAY OR MAYBE WEDNESDAY IDK BUT LET ME CHECK" but then came back like 2 hours later and was like "YAY EVERYBODY AGREES, STILL INTERESTED!?!?!?!" so . . . HR ladies are a land of contrasts. By themselves.
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May 19, 2021 05:12
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So just stick to my guns then? Or do you think there’s still going to be more negotiating going forward if I’m offered it?
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May 19, 2021 05:32
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Xguard86 posted:
This is extremely true. You're only one bad manager away from (looking for) your next job.
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May 19, 2021 08:34
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6 months ago I updated my LinkedIn profile to account for the new position/niche I had gotten into. Shortly thereafter I began getting requests from market research companies asking me to participate in paid interviews with their clients regarding the market I am now participating in. Typically an hour or so. The usual rate offered was $150-200/hr, I did a couple of those while never divulging anything proprietary. The questions were all super basic. I started realizing that I could probably charge way more so began escalating my rate. This morning I just locked in an interview at $500/hr and she didn't bat an eye. poo poo I might throw out $1,000/hr for the next one just to see what happens.
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May 19, 2021 13:28
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LochNessMonster posted:This is extremely true. You're only one bad manager away from (looking for) your next job. And it doesn't even need to be your direct boss!
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May 19, 2021 14:05
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spf3million posted:6 months ago I updated my LinkedIn profile to account for the new position/niche I had gotten into. Shortly thereafter I began getting requests from market research companies asking me to participate in paid interviews with their clients regarding the market I am now participating in. Typically an hour or so. The usual rate offered was $150-200/hr, I did a couple of those while never divulging anything proprietary. The questions were all super basic. I started realizing that I could probably charge way more so began escalating my rate. This morning I just locked in an interview at $500/hr and she didn't bat an eye. poo poo I might throw out $1,000/hr for the next one just to see what happens. So uh you wanna PM the buzzwords I need to throw onto my profile to get in on this?
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May 19, 2021 14:45
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PIZZA.BAT posted:So uh you wanna PM the buzzwords I need to throw onto my profile to get in on this? My experience with this is that these are sales people generating leads to sell raw materials to my company. I decline them because they don't pay enough to be worth the potential complications.
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May 19, 2021 14:47
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PIZZA.BAT posted:So uh you wanna PM the buzzwords I need to throw onto my profile to get in on this?
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May 19, 2021 17:06
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spf3million posted:6 months ago I updated my LinkedIn profile to account for the new position/niche I had gotten into. Shortly thereafter I began getting requests from market research companies asking me to participate in paid interviews with their clients regarding the market I am now participating in. Typically an hour or so. The usual rate offered was $150-200/hr, I did a couple of those while never divulging anything proprietary. The questions were all super basic. I started realizing that I could probably charge way more so began escalating my rate. This morning I just locked in an interview at $500/hr and she didn't bat an eye. poo poo I might throw out $1,000/hr for the next one just to see what happens. Wait, that poo poo isn't just the latest spam-email nonsense? I've been deleting those assuming they're just scams.
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May 19, 2021 22:10
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Sundae posted:Wait, that poo poo isn't just the latest spam-email nonsense? I've been deleting those assuming they're just scams. Same! I guess I need to reconsider
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May 19, 2021 22:17
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Sundae posted:Wait, that poo poo isn't just the latest spam-email nonsense? I've been deleting those assuming they're just scams.
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May 20, 2021 00:00
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spf3million posted:6 months ago I updated my LinkedIn profile to account for the new position/niche I had gotten into. Shortly thereafter I began getting requests from market research companies asking me to participate in paid interviews with their clients regarding the market I am now participating in. Typically an hour or so. The usual rate offered was $150-200/hr, I did a couple of those while never divulging anything proprietary. The questions were all super basic. I started realizing that I could probably charge way more so began escalating my rate. This morning I just locked in an interview at $500/hr and she didn't bat an eye. poo poo I might throw out $1,000/hr for the next one just to see what happens. Many of them have unlimited subscriptions to the expert networks if it's coming from eg GLG. That said, when we worked directly with the expert networks, we had trouble getting sign off on rates over $500. There's also some risk to you if you do it during work hours.
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May 20, 2021 00:33
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I’ve had those too, none ever panned out and it seemed like a heap of bullshit with different labels. Edit: just got one out of nowhere, like magic. Haven’t seen one in a while now. REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS fucked around with this message at 02:54 on May 20, 2021 |
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May 20, 2021 01:23
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