|
Mega64 posted:
Pulling up the Japanese text for the character facts it looks like the just-unlocked one was originally more like "bad at thinking"; it's meant to be about her rock-bottom Logic this time, not her Performance, and just got mis-translated. Logic makes sense in the context of the scene, too.
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 18:18
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 20:34 |
|
|
I'm starting to think it's actually pretty likely that it's a simulation that both the player and Setsu are stuck in. Possibly even being AI's themselves. Didn't our ship AI LeVi mention wishing that they could delete their own memories of Gnosia atrocities? I doubt that the ship is constantly being infiltrated by different Gnosia, so I think LeVi might actually be aware of the loops too. Same with Yuriko, given that she removed our literal plot armor and all. She even mentioned people not being suspicious of us in loops that she wasn't in yet. (Incidentally, I bought the game today as well and god drat is it addicting...)
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 18:23
|
|
|
Rockstar Massacre posted:Don't worry, the game doesn't shift to make the first Bug win easier, you earned it. Is the PC fully a bug during the introductory loop(s)? As in, even if they're not aware of their role do they keep the bug's unique vulnerabilities and immunities?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 18:27
|
|
|
I want to see what Setsu and Cassidy's talk about that would be like. "Okay, I got iced that round. Did you find out what went wrong with the settings?" "Yeah turns out I was a bug that annihilated reality when the round ended lol." "  "
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
So with the Raqio cutscene laid out here, I thought I'd share a real-life anecdote, because I wasn't sure how to react to it. I have a cis female friend who was watching me play and saw the Raqio shower scene. She started to get really upset, saying how of course the really rude and """logical""" non-binary character was assigned male at birth. She thought it was annoying stereotyping by a developer who probably doesn't understand anything about the LGBTQ scene (note: neither she nor I know anything about the developer other than that they're Japanese). She then kept referring to Raqio as "he" for a while thereafter, seemingly on purpose. I was surprised because she was part of an LGBTQ social circle for a while, and I thought she'd appreciate the representation, rather than getting really angry and dismissive. She later admitted she might have been projecting a bit, as she was apparently given a lot of poo poo from trans females in the friend group for being a cis female and probably had a bit of a chip on her shoulder. As a cis male, I just thought it was a nice bit of representation, and felt like she was reading into things way too much. But apparently I'm not really in a position to pass judgement 
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 18:58
|
|
|
...minor thing I'm just a little curious about. Does Sha-Ming have a thing for protecting the female characters on the ship? Including you, if you assign your gender as female?
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 19:40
|
|
|
I'm really confused about what's happening in my current Loop. It says Shigemichi is my Friend, but He's telling people (me, a "Confirmed Human" engineer) not to trust me (Seek Agreement), despite him being a Guard.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 19:52
|
|
|
Junpei posted:...minor thing I'm just a little curious about. He 100 percent does. Fun fact: the devs have confirmed that one particular quirk is that when Sha-Ming is the Guardian Angel, he will only protect female characters.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 20:03
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:I'm really confused about what's happening in my current Loop. Starting to wonder if this is a mistranslation. The reactions kind of sound like he's trying to get people to agree with me.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 20:14
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:I'm really confused about what's happening in my current Loop. "Seek Agreement" encourages other people to voice agreement with the statement it's reacting to. I forget his personal dialog for it, but he's absolutely trying to get people on your side. Ryanbomber fucked around with this message at 20:45 on May 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 20:40
|
|
|
Yami Fenrir posted:I'm really confused about what's happening in my current Loop. If other characters speaking after Shigemichi agree with you, then Shigemichi was agreeing with you. The way game mechanics work, after a character has argued against an interaction (like using defend against doubt or argue against cover) support for the original interaction isn't possible anymore. It's the one massive advantage Cassidy has, since they have right of first answer against everything. They get doubted? Hit deny (or the better defenses if available) immediately and there can be no dogpile for this debate round. They need Raqio's sorry rear end alive? Defend them the instant a stray doubt goes their way. Of course doing so strains stealth and I think the player is punished more than the other characters for going above the aggro threshold, but that's absolutely a fair trade for the ability to completely shape the discussion (it's also a feeling I have and not hard data so I could be wrong on this last point).
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
Ryanbomber posted:"Seek Agreement" encourages other people to voice agreement with the statement it's reacting to. I forget his personal dialog for it, but he's absolutely trying to get people on your side. I'll chalk it up to him... being him. Also I've gotten a bit past the LP now and I have to say, the game does a really good job at making the other characters feel like actual living, thinking beings. Like the way you just sort of have this meta relationship with Setsu even when on opposite sides, as seen in this LP, is really cool. I'm really impressed by the character interactions I've seen so far. As someone who actually played mafia on something awful it feels eerily similar, honestly. Yami Fenrir fucked around with this message at 21:40 on May 20, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 21:34
|
|
|
  Raqio is so done with this poo poo and I can't blame them at all. You'd think the sci-fi future would be better about this stuff, but welp. W.T. Fits posted:So now that the Bug role has been officially revealed in-game, can we choose whether or not there's a Bug in each loop, or does it just pop up at random without regards to other role settings? Jadecore posted:He 100 percent does. Fun fact: the devs have confirmed that one particular quirk is that when Sha-Ming is the Guardian Angel, he will only protect female characters.  (I assume that if there aren't any female characters left he picks at random?)
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 22:31
|
|
|
The thing I do really hate about that scene is like... I get that you're talking to audiences who probably don't know but god, we didn't need to know Raqio's assigned sex, and it super sucks that we find out by walking in on them naked! Did not need to know their genital situation! Also, given this, the game translates sex vs gender very inconsistently. Still, glad to have nonbinary characters in the game, and other than that nonsense I feel like they're handled well as far as I've played.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 23:31
|
|
|
Haifisch posted:Raqio is so done with this poo poo and I can't blame them at all. You'd think the sci-fi future would be better about this stuff, but welp. If there's anything I've been convinced of in the past few years, it's that there are always gonna be people who care more about what's in your pants than what's going on in their backyard, no matter how much society as a whole might progress. In that sense, it doesn't surprise me that Raqio would just be completely sick of reactions like SQ's.
|
|
#
?
May 20, 2021 23:53
|
|
|
Two things. 1) Raqio without their plumage seems so much younger and a little subdued. Was surprised by that. 2) Sha-Ming.... Is that an actual name or is that just a play on words for "shaming" as in "shame on Sha-Ming"?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 00:02
|
|
|
Donkringel posted:1) Raqio without their plumage seems so much younger and a little subdued. Was surprised by that. According to their profile page they're 18. Barely out of childhood. Can't normally see that through all their gear. Not sure I'd call them subdued, though - they were bold enough to snap at SQ then march stark naked to their room.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 00:08
|
|
|
This isn't the first time that someone has been insensitive (to put it generously) towards a non-binary character either. Sha-Ming's introduction starts off with him perving on Setsu which, when combined with Shamey's approach as Guardian Angel (protect women and only women) doesn't really paint him in a positive light. I get the feeling that when Setsu is talking with Cassidy afterwards and implies that they've killed Shamey at least once in previous loops that it's not always been in a 'Gnosia targeting Human' way.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 00:19
|
|
|
I legit thought that was Comet in the other shower. Her and Raquio need more differenter haircuts
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 00:28
|
|
That win as Bug was beautiful. mercenarynuker posted:I legit thought that was Comet in the other shower. Her and Raquio need more differenter haircuts Raquio's getup is much more stylish and flamboyant than Comet's, she only has some kind of hair-net/bubble thingy over pink hair.
|
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 00:37
|
|
|
Well that's a hell of a way to reveal a new role. Also count me in at not realizing Raqio's hat wasn't their hair.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 01:43
|
|
|
Donkringel posted:2) Sha-Ming.... Is that an actual name or is that just a play on words for "shaming" as in "shame on Sha-Ming"? I thought it was a Chinese name.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 01:45
|
|
Also, man, I just realized this loop exemplified my predictions. Gina got iced before she ended up investigating Cassidy, and the Gnosia never saw Cassidy as enough of a threat to target them, and since Cassidy never lied, none of the crew ended up having anything substantial to bring against them for cold sleep either. The fact that it came to ly/lo too with nobody the wiser about the Bug is just 
|
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 02:28
|
|
|
Ignatius M. Meen posted:Raquio's getup is much more stylish and flamboyant than Comet's, she only has some kind of hair-net/bubble thingy over pink hair. It's a bobble hat. 
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 02:32
|
|
|
So what happens if, by some stroke of luck, all remaining players somehow manage to draw on votes and the decision goes through to ice everyone? Can that even happen? Because that might be an interesting draw scenario even if it's technically a loss since the player character doesn't see the loop's end.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 02:38
|
|
|
Epicmissingno posted:So what happens if, by some stroke of luck, all remaining players somehow manage to draw on votes and the decision goes through to ice everyone? Can that even happen? Because that might be an interesting draw scenario even if it's technically a loss since the player character doesn't see the loop's end. I had a friend who purposely set this up and it turns out that if there’s 3 people left in a 1-1-1 draw situation twice, the day just gets skipped and nobody’s frozen. Doesn’t even give the freeze everyone option.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 02:42
|
|
|
Yeah if it ever gets to a revote i believe it's 3 or 4 times in a row nobody is frozen and day just ends.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 02:47
|
|
|
I'm impressed they caught that edge case. It almost certainly would have worked to have it just default to a particular ruling, but they actually coded it in. On a similar edge case thing, can Cas ever vote to ice themselves(or ice all if they're in a tie)?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 02:50
|
|
|
Huh, now I'm wondering how you win against a bug reliably. I'm assuming it was just a surprise on this loop to introduce it, so maybe future loops with one will have them be a known presence which should lessen some of the advantages they have. A bug has no incentive to lie as things stand, since they really don't care which side wins as long as they get to the end. Aside from trying to get the engineers to go to cold sleep since they have a lot of advantages by just pretending to be a crew member and can't really get evidence stacked against them like Gnosia can. Ganking a known engineer as Gnosia is now out of the question in loops with a bug in it unless they're really convinced they can send the bug to cold sleep afterwards since they'll have their victory robbed entirely. And Gnosia outing a failed gank would pretty much reveal their position on the spot too (And that's not reliable evidence with a Guardian Angel in play.) And would also require the Gnosia player to be ridiculously selfless (which the game personally disincentives for the player too with elimination being an automatic loss) to do.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 02:57
|
|
|
Player Bugs played as dumb, boring Crew who just happen to mistakenly ice the real Engineer are probably really hard for the AI to win against in general with decent stat investment and play. Even if the Gnosia find out the player is the Bug, the player might still be able to turn the Crew against them reliably if they've chosen allies well in advance. Make someone like Shigemichi a Bug though, and they'll either a) claim a role, and then be caught lying or b) be themselves and stand out too much to pass up for cold sleep. e: It's tricky for the Gnosia to maneuver cold sleep on a Bug who isn't standing out and who's already made good inroads into the Crew for sure, especially if there's a Guardian Angel to confuse things, but the Gnosia can potentially suss them out still unlike Crew who will be completely oblivious unless the Bug falsely claims a role. A chance of intelligent play beats the pants off having nothing but the gut to work from, after all. Now, a player who is stock Crew against Yuriko playing a Bug? Good loving luck with that one, you'd probably have an easier time playing as the sole Gnosia in a 15 person game. Ignatius M. Meen fucked around with this message at 03:38 on May 21, 2021 |
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 03:25
|
|
|
Ignatius M. Meen posted:Now, a player who is stock Crew against Yuriko playing a Bug? Good loving luck with that one, you'd probably have an easier time playing as the sole Gnosia in a 15 person game. Can confirm, this is very very painful.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 03:38
|
|
|
FoolyCharged posted:On a similar edge case thing, can Cas ever vote to ice themselves(or ice all if they're in a tie)? You also can't vote for yourself, ever.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 03:41
|
|
|
I ran into a funny situation yesterday. Got into a 6 player vote off. 1 or 2 Gnosia left alive. We end up in a Revote situation between 2 people. After some serious deliberation i decide to freeze both. Then it it turned out the vote was between 2 Gnosia and freezing them both won me the game as the Bug was already frozen In other news if there is one thing that bothers me in the game it's the whole player survival requirement. You can't really be a team player as much as you should. It kind of makes Stealth too good imo. The difference between 5 stealth and 20 is insane. Yami Fenrir fucked around with this message at 05:20 on May 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 05:18
|
|
|
Tenebrais posted:So the theory we're in a computer simulation just got a whole lot more likely, huh. Didn't the very first Gnosia loop have them say something about a "Pan-Possibility Drive" as the way you are going through hyperspace?
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 05:20
|
|
|
SQ. you are a friggin weirdo.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 05:39
|
|
|
My favourite thing about this is the fact that SQ's Doctor roleclaim is still on the screen even in this situation. 'As a doctor, I can say with confidence that Raquio left, like, butt-naked.' I'd be absolutely terrible at this game, but I'm really enjoying this Let's Play! Setsu is fascinating: someone who's much more experienced in looping, and who's playing the game but is ultimately more interested in collaborating with the protagonist to work out what's going on. I suppose, in a way, Setsu reflects us; we're trying to win in each loop, but our real goal is getting the story scenes. That said, Raquio's possibly my favourite character. I really enjoy them being showy, obnoxious, voted out at every opportunity and yet still a valuable ally on account of their logic skills.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 09:04
|
|
|
I love how the game really does represent a lot of types of mafia players like that. Including the serial day 1 mis-vote victims.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 09:08
|
|
|
Omobono posted:Is the PC fully a bug during the introductory loop(s)? You know, I'm not sure. I can't remember getting ganked, but I died a lot on this my first time through. I do know for certain I never saw the 'nobody died' message and then had it turn out they were swinging at me, I would definitely remember that.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 11:15
|
|
|
Ignatius M. Meen posted:Player Bugs played as dumb, boring Crew who just happen to mistakenly ice the real Engineer are probably really hard for the AI to win against in general with decent stat investment and play. Even if the Gnosia find out the player is the Bug, the player might still be able to turn the Crew against them reliably if they've chosen allies well in advance. Make someone like Shigemichi a Bug though, and they'll either a) claim a role, and then be caught lying or b) be themselves and stand out too much to pass up for cold sleep. Yeah, the characters still play according to their personalities when they're the Bug, which is to say they're often bad at keeping a low profile. Bug Raqio loves to fake-claim Engineer and try to get the real one voted off, while someone like Remnan might stick out for being too quiet. 404notfound posted:So with the Raqio cutscene laid out here, I thought I'd share a real-life anecdote, because I wasn't sure how to react to it. I kinda get where your friend is coming from, but at the same time, Raqio's totally in the right in that particular scene. And it's not like they're blunter or ruder than some of the female characters like Yuriko, just worse at getting away with it. And then of course there's Setsu; they're also non-binary and one of the most likeable characters in the game, and their birth-assigned gender is irrelevant to that. Thuryl fucked around with this message at 12:18 on May 21, 2021 |
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 12:09
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 20:34 |
|
|
Ignatius M. Meen posted:Player Bugs played as dumb, boring Crew who just happen to mistakenly ice the real Engineer are probably really hard for the AI to win against in general with decent stat investment and play. Even if the Gnosia find out the player is the Bug, the player might still be able to turn the Crew against them reliably if they've chosen allies well in advance. Make someone like Shigemichi a Bug though, and they'll either a) claim a role, and then be caught lying or b) be themselves and stand out too much to pass up for cold sleep. Course the characters being who they are, some of them would probably out themselves as a bug very quickly instead of doing the smart thing and chilling to the end. The ones that actually do follow that strat would probably have to be outed through strokes of luck through cold sleep voting, or the Engineer happens to discover them. But yeah seems like there's very little incentive for them to side with Gnosia other than trying to goad them to nightkill the engineer. Seems like it's better to ally with the human side since most of the crew can't do anything about you other than voting you out.Oh god Bug Yuriko would basically be nearly invincible, wouldn't she? At that point you'd have to hope the Engineer takes her down (Or make her your first priority if you're engie and you don't know who the bug is.) And if you're not on the Gnosia side, pray that they don't off the engie themselves and basically torpedo the chances of anyone else winning the loop. And this isn't even getting into how the characters would throw so many wrenches into any potential strategies.
|
|
#
?
May 21, 2021 13:47
|
|