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bird with big dick posted:What percentage of the gallon of diesel is lost to waste heat Up to 2/3 like Seph posted:You're not considering engine efficiency here. Diesel engines only convert about 30% of the fuel's energy into kinetic energy, the rest is lost as heat and sound. Electric motors are about 95%. So you need to 3x that range at least. Is saying. I did a fast edit and uhh slipped on that one important step. E: ugh what a poo poo snipe
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May 20, 2021 20:55
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e: wrong thread
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May 20, 2021 20:56
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So is range while towing the only negative people are seeing here (and maybe the fact that this is a full size truck)? It seems that this inverter system is a pretty big deal. They mention being able to power food prep trailers and such. I can see being able to silently being able to run your ac/cooktop/fridge in your trailer for 10+ days as a cool tradeoff to a 40 min charge stop somewhere on the way to the campsite. I am also excited by the new inverters in BEV, as all the cool new toys that are electric can be charged on site. like electric surfboards/foils & bikes.
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May 20, 2021 21:10
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The other negative thing is the DCFC speed. Of course it's slow because it has a massive battery but 1C charging still isn't great by today's standards. It should be 300+kW.
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May 20, 2021 21:13
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Nfcknblvbl posted:The other negative thing is the DCFC speed. Of course it's slow because it has a massive battery but 1C charging still isn't great by today's standards. It should be 300+kW. I suspect that might be a limitation/function of the BMS and price point they were trying to achieve. Edit: https://www.thedrive.com/news/40696/how-ford-built-an-electric-f-150-that-can-do-real-work-for-40k This article negates almost all of my statements in this thread previously. I was wrong on quite a few technical aspects. McTinkerson fucked around with this message at 21:32 on May 20, 2021 |
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May 20, 2021 21:21
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third negative is that it won't go on sale for a bit and unless supplier issues are resolved the production rate may be low
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May 20, 2021 21:25
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McTinkerson posted:I suspect that might be a limitation/function of the BMS and price point they were trying to achieve. I'm just hoping they're psyching us out, it's actually got an 800V battery pack, and that was just the 400V speed.
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May 20, 2021 21:36
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OK, that's pretty damned cool, incorporating the "grille" into the bonnet. McTinkerson posted:Absolutely. It does look like they repurposed the front leaf spring pickup point for the new trailing arms, which is excellent. Same for the rear upper shock mounts. They did a similar thing with the Mustang Cobra back in the '90s. Repurposed mounting points for the coil-spring live axle for an IRS subframe. cruft posted:Ah, okay, so that'd be a zero... *writing stuff down on an envelope* so yeah, I think this will work, if you carry around like 20 solar panels... have you ever read The Martian? So, you're say an RTG in the bed would do the job? I can work with that.
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May 20, 2021 21:40
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I can't believe I'm saying it, but Ford might have just revealed the vehicle to take EVs mainstream. I'm blown away by the price/range/features. TSLA should have been -5% today.
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May 20, 2021 22:36
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At least for me, the 150kw charging isnt a big deal since I need to take the dogs to bathroom around every 2ish hours anyways.
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May 20, 2021 22:40
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Most or all here may already know this (especially the dude that also has a Bronco reservation) but Ford's reservation system doesn't really give you a whole lot of power or options when it comes to negotiating with the dealer so I'd reach out at some point and try and get something in writing that says they're not going to charge you a 10k ADM. If you don't have something like that before the order system goes live (this Fall?) then they can just convert your reservation to an order and you're basically boned, at that point you have zero negotiating power.
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May 20, 2021 22:49
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bird with big dick posted:Most or all here may already know this (especially the dude that also has a Bronco reservation) but Ford's reservation system doesn't really give you a whole lot of power or options when it comes to negotiating with the dealer so I'd reach out at some point and try and get something in writing that says they're not going to charge you a 10k ADM. If you don't have something like that before the order system goes live (this Fall?) then they can just convert your reservation to an order and you're basically boned, at that point you have zero negotiating power. Barging into this thread because I just put $100 down and had questions about the typical dealer markup for a car like this. I read your post about your Bronco ordering process as well. So they basically took the Mach-E you specced out, converted it to a real production order without your consent, and put it on their showroom with $10K ADM when you told them to shove it up their rear end? Kunabomber fucked around with this message at 22:58 on May 20, 2021 |
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May 20, 2021 22:56
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If you don't mind travel there will certainly be dealers offering below invoice deals like for the Bronco. You might need to go to Iowa, though. Edit: quote:Via Automotive News Zero One fucked around with this message at 23:24 on May 20, 2021 |
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May 20, 2021 23:17
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FistEnergy posted:I can't believe I'm saying it, but Ford might have just revealed the vehicle to take EVs mainstream. I'm blown away by the price/range/features. Yeah, I feel like this is finally the vehicle where the 'traditional' automaker will match/eclipse Tesla in an EV (at least it looks that way..). I'm still pretty surprised by the price.
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May 20, 2021 23:45
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VideoGameVet posted:Not quite. The Lightning has an independent rear suspension and that is a good thing.
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May 21, 2021 00:02
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Bone Crimes posted:Yeah, I feel like this is finally the vehicle where the 'traditional' automaker will match/eclipse Tesla in an EV (at least it looks that way..). I'm still pretty surprised by the price. The post about "watch out for the dealer dicking you over" reminded me that for as cool as this thing is, it's still going to come with a bunch of baggage attached. Like, maybe the entertainment center runs Windows 7 and Java, and you're going to have to drive 200 miles to find a Ford service center who will look at it without screwing it up. I am *super* excited about this truck. But at the end of the day it's going to be pretty much like the 2020 F150 ownership experience. e: [I ninja edited out some stuff about manufacturers that make cars in the Luxury category, because I didn't think it was worth inviting another fanboy slapfest] cruft fucked around with this message at 00:21 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 00:18
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I agree for Audi/BMW, but the Tesla owner experience is definitely bottom of the barrel
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May 21, 2021 00:19
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Does Ford allow fast charging at its dealerships? Because that would be a hell of a perk too.
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May 21, 2021 01:18
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Silly Burrito posted:Does Ford allow fast charging at its dealerships? Because that would be a hell of a perk too. quote:US dealers are required to have at least two chargers (one in service and one accessible on the customer-side). not-at-home Level 2 is going to be nigh useless for that truck. There's a trip I do with my 3 that I need to top off halfway with a 32A tesla destination charger, and that's juuuuuust about as slow as I would like to change mid-trip. generous estimates of the battery size and range give a 500wh/mi ballpark so your garden-variety 40A (50A circuit) L2 will get you 18 miles of range per hour. Qwijib0 fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 01:23
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Honestly Tesla and Ford are both going to sell every truck they can make for the next decade. I'm glad the F150 Lightning is getting so much positive press coverage!
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May 21, 2021 01:33
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Some Lightning trim details quote:XLT ($55,000 est.)
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May 21, 2021 03:01
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If the XLT is "the base model for the average retail buyer" at $55k with standard range then what's $40k?
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May 21, 2021 03:20
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Fleet truck.
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May 21, 2021 03:21
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so all the hype about the $40k pricepoint was kinda smoke and mirrors? I thought they said the fleet truck and base retail model are both $40k. It's hard to see what in that XLT description could be stripped out to make it $15k cheaper, most of the features mentioned are options.
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May 21, 2021 03:24
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Kunabomber posted:Barging into this thread because I just put $100 down and had questions about the typical dealer markup for a car like this. I read your post about your Bronco ordering process as well.  incomingIf you read both my Bronco and Mach-e reservation posts then you're basically up to date but they haven't actually manufactured the Mach-e yet (they haven't manufactured a single production Mach-e GT I don't think) but I actually just got an email 5/18 saying that my Mach-e was scheduled for production July 12th. The Mach-e and the Bronco reservations seem to be handled slightly differently (with E-F150 reservations likely being the same as the Bronco). The Mach-e reservation was $500 and as soon as that reservation was converted to an order that $500 was refunded back to the credit card it came from. The Bronco reservation was $100 and as soon as that reservation was converted to an order that $100 is KEPT by the dealership. Which does result in kind of a slightly different dynamic. The dealership can "poach" your Mach-e reservation (i.e. convert it to an order without your permission and then hope you abandon it so they can put it on the lot with a big ADM) but at least you get your $500 back. And I'm not saying they've tried to charge me a big ADM, they haven't, I'm just saying there's nothing preventing a dealership from doing that. Whereas when a dealership poaches your Bronco reservation (and presumably an EF-150 reservation) they get to keep the $100. Sure, if they refuse to give it back you could take them to small claims court. And you'll probably get it back. The $100. How much is your time worth. The main thing is that in both of these situations the dealership is essentially rewarded for reservation holders abandoning their reservation. There's nothing preventing dealerships from converting reservations to orders without the customer's permission (it happened to me 2/2 times, at 2 different dealerships) and once they do that, if you abandon the order, the order still exists, the car still gets made, and they put it on the lot almost certainly with an ADM. So if you have a reservation, try and get some kinda deal in writing. Otherwise there's nothing stopping them from converting your reservation to an order without your consent and putting it on the lot with a big ADM after you abandon it (because they told you you needed to pay a big ADM). And I like Ford. I still own my GT500 and until it got totaled, a ~$67,000 msrp F-150. But their reservation system is total poo poo.
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May 21, 2021 03:25
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Goddamn that blows. This is the first time I've reserved a car, I usually buy them off the lot.
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May 21, 2021 03:30
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Kunabomber posted:Barging into this thread because I just put $100 down and had questions about the typical dealer markup for a car like this. I read your post about your Bronco ordering process as well. With regard to "typical dealer markup" I'd say no one that isn't a total boob should pay a cent over MSRP. This is an F-150. It's not a Shelby. It's not a Raptor. It's a regular production vehicle. Whether or not MSRP is a rip off is a different discussion. Normally paying MSRP for an F-150 would be an insane rip off (queue Hank Hill truck buying video). But this isn't just a new F-150 it's a new electric F-150 and even if the best of circumstances there may be battery limitations and currently there's also gonna be chip limitations, so... And the other thing is that Ford's new business model may be much smaller MSRP to Invoice differences. I bought my F-150 for $10,000 off MSRP and if you paid much more than that you got ripped off. But the differences between a Mach-E GT ~$65,000 invoice vs MSRP is like $1100 so if you think you've got a chance of getting 10 grand off that, you're delusional. That may change in the future, but that's the way it is now, and probably not gonna change much for quite a while.
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May 21, 2021 03:35
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bawfuls posted:so all the hype about the $40k pricepoint was kinda smoke and mirrors? I thought they said the fleet truck and base retail model are both $40k. It's hard to see what in that XLT description could be stripped out to make it $15k cheaper, most of the features mentioned are options. edit: i'm not good at reading comprehension. Nfcknblvbl fucked around with this message at 03:43 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 03:37
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bird with big dick posted:Good advice Thanks a lot! The article says $55k estimated too, they don't know concrete pricing.
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May 21, 2021 03:41
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Some dealers converted Bronco reservations without the customer consent but that was mostly incompetence not malice. Ford corporate immediately stepped in with clear instructions for dealers and a process for customers change the order back into a reservation.
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May 21, 2021 03:42
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bawfuls posted:so all the hype about the $40k pricepoint was kinda smoke and mirrors? I thought they said the fleet truck and base retail model are both $40k. It's hard to see what in that XLT description could be stripped out to make it $15k cheaper, most of the features mentioned are options. More chrome. Also looking at the petrol models cruise control, alloy wheels, carpet, power locks, remote key. bind spot. Maybe noting that seems to add up to $15k but some of those things would be drat annoying to miss out on
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May 21, 2021 04:19
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Zero One posted:Fleet truck. I’ll take the fleet truck if I can add the extended range. Or the Transit EV if I can do the same.
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May 21, 2021 04:42
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Yeah if you can get the fleet truck with extended range you can add aftermarket versions of all that other poo poo for way less than $15k
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May 21, 2021 05:34
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What the gently caress volkswagen, give me this you cowards! https://insideevs.com/news/508413/vw-idx-electric-hot-hatch/
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May 21, 2021 06:56
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Elviscat posted:Same, holy poo poo. Imagine how refreshingly not poo poo the grip will be when unloaded. It’s still going to be heavy, but it’s not going to have the traditional truck problem of “lmao literally all the weight is on the front axle”.
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May 21, 2021 08:33
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Platystemon posted:Imagine how refreshingly not poo poo the grip will be when unloaded. Dang, hadn't thought of that. Big advantage anywhere that gets snow.
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May 21, 2021 13:13
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Zero One posted:Some dealers converted Bronco reservations without the customer consent but that was mostly incompetence not malice. Disagree. quote:Ford corporate immediately stepped in with clear instructions for dealers and a process for customers change the order back into a reservation. Not really. They created a system where the customer could switch their reservation to a different dealer and preserve their "place in line" but Ford couldn't/wouldn't force the shady dealers to convert the order back into a reservation, and couldn't/wouldn't force the dealer to refund the customer's deposit. It's an extremely stupid system that literally rewards dealers for being shitbags and gives the consumer virtually no power. Ford combined the worst aspects of the antiquated dealership model and the online ordering model. bird with big dick fucked around with this message at 16:23 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 16:17
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bird with big dick posted:Disagree. You can read the full saga here: https://www.bronco6g.com/some-bronco-reservation-holders-report-having-order-submitted-by-dealer-without-knowledge-and-consent-%f0%9f%98%a1/ And Ford stepping in right away with a process to revert conversions: https://www.bronco6g.com/update-from-ford-about-dealers-converting-bronco-reservations-unexpectedly/ and https://www.bronco6g.com/bronco-reservations-converted-to-order-dealer-faq-as-of-january-29/ Sorry if you were not aware that Ford fixed the issue. They also have penalties if too many Bronco sales don't match the name on the reservation: https://www.bronco6g.com/ford-institutes-bronco-customer-name-match-dealer-integrity-policy/ Edit: the whole process was poorly explained to dealers. Mine made the opposite mistake where they didn't realize that allocation was based on orders converted and not just reservation. They didn't do any outreach to reservation holders. On the last day they had to make a huge push to get people to convert when they realized their mistakes. Zero One fucked around with this message at 16:58 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 16:53
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Zero One posted:You can read the full saga here: https://www.bronco6g.com/some-bronco-reservation-holders-report-having-order-submitted-by-dealer-without-knowledge-and-consent-%f0%9f%98%a1/ lmao, I don't need to read the whole saga, it happened to me, twice. I have posts in the threads you linked. Sorry but your insistence that Ford "fixed the issue" is BS. If that was true there wouldn't have been dealers converting Mach-E GT reservations without customer consent long after the Bronco fiasco. They instituted a workaround that fixed some aspects of it. It's still a completely poo poo system and is still being exploited by lovely dealerships and that will almost certainly still be the case when electric F-150 reservations start getting converted to orders.
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May 21, 2021 17:09
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Who wants to go in with me and make a "rolling coal" smoke machine for the lightning?
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May 22, 2021 02:59
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