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please knock Mom! posted:and guns belonging to a government with a monopoly on violence to back it up, which is why bitcoin bounces up and down like a rubber ball while you can pay with USD around the globe Not at all. People use USD without having made any assessment about the number of guns the government has. They only trust that they can use the USD they receive to purchase what they want later. edit: I should add, you too are talking about how it is right now. Bitcoin is not a currency now. If you want to put it in a pigeon hole, it's an unregulated speculative commodity. Ola fucked around with this message at 13:54 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 13:51
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 Right now, BTC is granite rock of stability next to the flailing chaos of S&P500 and the 10-year.
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May 21, 2021 13:53
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Mining crypto is to engage an arbitrage between the mining of the currency and the electric bill. This has always been the case with any sort of mining. Whichever is the cheapest source of energy to fuel the mining will win out. And that will inevitably be solar/wind combination. So the argument that mining crypto is bad for the environment is not necessarily true since by it's nature it is agnostic as to what the energy source is.
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May 21, 2021 14:03
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HamsterPolice posted:Mining crypto is to engage an arbitrage between the mining of the currency and the electric bill. This has always been the case with any sort of mining. Whichever is the cheapest source of energy to fuel the mining will win out. And that will inevitably be solar/wind combination. So the argument that mining crypto is bad for the environment is not necessarily true since by it's nature it is agnostic as to what the energy source is. this is pie in the sky nonsense power is fungible unless you are a crazy hermit off the grid and noplace is fully self-sufficient on renewables. Solar/wind are not environmentally positive or neutral either, just far closer than fossil fuels. All that poo poo still has to be manufactured and transported and whatnot. Plus if mining gets prohibitively expensive in green energy havens its not stopping people from literally firing up old coal plants to mine and burning down every forest in a developing country
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May 21, 2021 14:11
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The Bloop posted:this is pie in the sky nonsense yup https://twitter.com/WSJmarkets/status/1395718527038918657?s=20 "Across America, older fossil-fuel power plants are shutting down in favor of renewable energy. But some are getting a new lease on life—to mine bitcoin. In upstate New York, an idled coal plant has been restarted, fueled by natural gas, to mine cryptocurrency. A once-struggling Montana coal plant is now scaling up to do the same."
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May 21, 2021 14:14
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pmchem posted:yup gently caress this dumb earth and everyone in it.
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May 21, 2021 14:19
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The Bloop posted:power is fungible unless you are a crazy hermit off the grid and noplace is fully self-sufficient on renewables. Solar/wind are not environmentally positive or neutral either, just far closer than fossil fuels. All that poo poo still has to be manufactured and transported and whatnot. I wasn't saying that's the case now. But I think as the cost of materials for solar/wind get lower and lower, they will compete with the cost of running and maintaining a coal mine. I guess it just seems inevitable to me. It's also true that the location of crypto mining operation is a huge factor. For instance, most mining is in China right now because of the cheapness of energy/lax of regulation (despite the "ban"). The opportunity of moving to another locality to take advantage of lax laws/cheap energy is a driving factor. quote:Solar/wind are not environmentally positive or neutral either, just far closer than fossil fuels. I don't think anything is? So I don't know what your point is. Are you suggesting we abandon all forms of electrical generation? quote:Plus if mining gets prohibitively expensive in green energy havens its not stopping people from literally firing up old coal plants to mine and burning down every forest in a developing country I think that's true but that's true for anything. Not just crypto. All the more reason to strive for cheap green energy to compete with the alternatives. edit: leaving this white paper here https://assets.ctfassets.net/2d5q1td6cyxq/5mRjc9X5LTXFFihIlTt7QK/e7bcba47217b60423a01a357e036105e/BCEI_White_Paper.pdf HamsterPolice fucked around with this message at 15:02 on May 21, 2021 |
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May 21, 2021 14:37
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The point is even if Crypto mining was entirely green, the opportunity cost is such that power is used so other stuff needs to use less green energy. It's a waste of energy to do random calculations for no other purpose than to get digital currency. That energy could have been used for more essential poo poo.
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May 21, 2021 14:51
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ANVS cured Alzheimer’s. Anybody here have it?
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May 21, 2021 14:55
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LibCrusher posted:ANVS cured Alzheimer’s. Anybody here have it?  whoa
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May 21, 2021 15:00
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China produces their own digital currency right, opening up possibilities for real time economic monitoring, unlike what the west does, phone surveys and 6 month delayed meta analysis on tax documents. I don't know the details but I am certain the Beijing system doesn't pay out random payouts to mining pools. All of the utility function and benefit of crypto can be enjoyed with the ridiculous anarchist project elements removed, with the exception of speculative investment.
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May 21, 2021 15:03
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HamsterPolice posted:Mining crypto is to engage an arbitrage between the mining of the currency and the electric bill. This has always been the case with any sort of mining. Whichever is the cheapest source of energy to fuel the mining will win out. And that will inevitably be solar/wind combination. So the argument that mining crypto is bad for the environment is not necessarily true since by it's nature it is agnostic as to what the energy source is. But mining is the only way to increase the supply of stuff that comes out of the ground. "Mining" crypto is a metaphor for doing some arbitrary math. There is nothing about crypto in general that requires it, even if it is important to the most famous ones now. You could dream up a new one right now, give it any qualities of immutability, anonymity and security which could be vetted by the world's cryptographic elite. Then let the World Bank decide on the supply and peg its exchange value to the front soy bean future. It wouldn't be any more out less arbitrary, from the perspective of what currency is, than fiat paper, Bitcoin or glass beads.
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May 21, 2021 15:08
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Ola posted:Fair point in today's practice but that's because it's used as a pseudo-dollar and measured relative to the purchasing power of a dollar. As a currency, it would just be another currency. If USDJPY moves 1%, you don't suddenly get 1% less/more stuff for your yen in Tokyo. You uh, kind of do though? Prices on goods sold between the US/Japan being fairly fixed is only true because of the relative stability of exchange rates between the USD/JPY.
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May 21, 2021 15:08
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Giganticon posted:China produces their own digital currency right, opening up possibilities for real time economic monitoring, unlike what the west does, phone surveys and 6 month delayed meta analysis on tax documents. I don't know the details but I am certain the Beijing system doesn't pay out random payouts to mining pools. All of the utility function and benefit of crypto can be enjoyed with the ridiculous anarchist project elements removed, with the exception of speculative investment. It's centralized. It's not the same as Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency.
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May 21, 2021 15:15
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if anyone's looking to rotate into international value indexes, check out FIVA as a lesser-known value ETF. Fidelity's international value factor ETF. https://screener.fidelity.com/ftgw/etf/goto/snapshot/snapshot.jhtml?symbols=FIVA It uses the same index metrics as FVAL (free cash flow yield, EBITDA to enterprise value, P/B, and fwd P/E) but for developed markets. It's intriguing for both the methodology and the fact that there's no international equivalent to VTV (CRSP value index). Very appealing to have an international counterpart to FVAL.
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May 21, 2021 15:16
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Residency Evil posted:You uh, kind of do though? Prices on goods sold between the US/Japan being fairly fixed is only true because of the relative stability of exchange rates between the USD/JPY. Yeah, I understand the concept of exchange rates, thanks. The price changing 40% in a day isn't something more inherent to Bitcoin than any other security, commodity or currency, you're confusing theory with current events. And if you both earn your salary and spend it in Bitcoin, then you care less about the exchange rate than if you're making that exchange every time you make a transaction.
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May 21, 2021 15:19
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HamsterPolice posted:It's centralized. It's not the same as Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. There are several cryptocurrencies that are centralized though? I mean tether, the most traded crypto in the world, is controlled by a corporation that prints tether at will.
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May 21, 2021 15:20
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HamsterPolice posted:It's centralized. It's not the same as Bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency. Isn't bitcoin centralized in the sense that if anyone ever gets >50% they can just ratfuck the whole thing for everybody on a whim
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May 21, 2021 15:21
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Fellas, this is the stock trading thread
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May 21, 2021 15:25
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ranbo das posted:There are several cryptocurrencies that are centralized though? I mean tether, the most traded crypto in the world, is controlled by a corporation that prints tether at will. Yeah and that poo poo is shady af. But it's not a true crypto. Its not decentralized and not distributed. It's just a token. The Bloop posted:Isn't bitcoin centralized in the sense that if anyone ever gets >50% they can just ratfuck the whole thing for everybody on a whim That's possible but seems very hard. Like buying all the gold bars in the world and melting them down or something Joker-esque.
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May 21, 2021 15:25
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We can still laugh at crypto though, can’t we? Especially the massive dump it just took (again) 
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May 21, 2021 15:26
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Ola posted:Yeah, I understand the concept of exchange rates, thanks. I guess I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make then? Bitcoin has been incredibly volatile since it's inception. Sure, in theory if Bitcoin had a fairly stable exchange rate against other major currencies, that would mean that using it in the real world would be a lot easier and you might have employers and employees much more likely to use it. Yes, sure, that is true.
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May 21, 2021 15:27
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Even if Bitcoin was stable there is the fact that most trading in it does not happen via its wallet to wallet transaction function because it is so slow and expensive. Most exchanges just have a bunch of it in their own wallet and hold a ledger on who "owns" it. The thing that stops Bitcoin from being used on a large scale is how it can only do what 4-5 transactions per second?
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May 21, 2021 15:30
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Residency Evil posted:I guess I'm confused as to what point you're trying to make then? Bitcoin has been incredibly volatile since it's inception. Sure, in theory if Bitcoin had a fairly stable exchange rate against other major currencies, that would mean that using it in the real world would be a lot easier and you might have employers and employees much more likely to use it. Yes, sure, that is true. So how do you engineer in a stable exchange rate? You obviously don't, that is simply an emerged quality we appreciate and are used to, not something inherent to any currency or commodity. Therefore, using the recent volatility as an argument against its potential use as a currency isn't valid. PS I hate Bitcoin and can't wait for this dumb bubble to go away.
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May 21, 2021 15:36
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BigPaddy posted:Even if Bitcoin was stable there is the fact that most trading in it does not happen via its wallet to wallet transaction function because it is so slow and expensive. Most exchanges just have a bunch of it in their own wallet and hold a ledger on who "owns" it. The thing that stops Bitcoin from being used on a large scale is how it can only do what 4-5 transactions per second? This is how gold is traded, isn't it? Among many, many other places, in Dallas in the basement of some building(s) are a bunch of cubbies that hold 1-4 pallets, and very occasionally the pallets get moved from the Russia cubby to the Ecuador cubby, but in general they just keep a ledger, and the owner can take delivery if they schedule far enough in advance. I've oversimplifying it, but not by much
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May 21, 2021 15:47
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Ola posted:So how do you engineer in a stable exchange rate? You obviously don't, that is simply an emerged quality we appreciate and are used to, not something inherent to any currency or commodity. I’m not sure people are arguing that the volatility itself makes it unsuitable for use as a currency, rather it’s a symptom of other problems. And I’m not sure I’d call Bitcoin only “recently” volatile.
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May 21, 2021 15:55
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Hadlock posted:This is how gold is traded, isn't it? Among many, many other places, in Dallas in the basement of some building(s) are a bunch of cubbies that hold 1-4 pallets, and very occasionally the pallets get moved from the Russia cubby to the Ecuador cubby, but in general they just keep a ledger, and the owner can take delivery if they schedule far enough in advance. I've oversimplifying it, but not by much Here's a video of a Bank of England gold vault. I know there's video tour of the New York Reserve Bank vault out there somewhere too. These sorts of reserves buy/sell/trade gold but rarely ship it anywhere. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTtf5s2HFkA
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May 21, 2021 16:01
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Residency Evil posted:I’m not sure people are arguing that the volatility itself makes it unsuitable for use as a currency, rather it’s a symptom of other problems. Oh FFS you are arguing against a response to the specific use of "40%", which refers to the recent event of Bitcoin crashing by that much. The use of 40% was in response to my discussion about its theoretical use as a currency. Those posts are also recent events, extremely recent. Don't you remember? You can scroll and look. Or are you just ad lib nitpicking to anything I post with a fresh blank mind? Come to think of it, this confusing recent events for underlying theory might explain a lot about traders.
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May 21, 2021 16:08
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Hadlock posted:This is how gold is traded, isn't it? Among many, many other places, in Dallas in the basement of some building(s) are a bunch of cubbies that hold 1-4 pallets, and very occasionally the pallets get moved from the Russia cubby to the Ecuador cubby, but in general they just keep a ledger, and the owner can take delivery if they schedule far enough in advance. I've oversimplifying it, but not by much You are correct, are people using bars of gold to pay for goods?
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May 21, 2021 16:09
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LibCrusher posted:ANVS cured Alzheimer’s. Anybody here have it? Any med science goons here that can tell us if this means crtx is hosed
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May 21, 2021 16:17
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LibCrusher posted:ANVS cured Alzheimer’s. Anybody here have it? Wait in truth? This is great news
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May 21, 2021 16:19
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I'm curious what a healthy diet and sauna regimen would do to these inflammatory markers that the ANVS study is discussing.
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May 21, 2021 16:23
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Gaius Marius posted:Wait in truth? This is great news My grandfather died after suffering from Parkinsons for over a decade. If this works then it is a great advancement and will stop millions from suffering a slow degradation and millions more from having to watch their love ones waste away.
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May 21, 2021 16:24
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LLCoolJD posted:I'm curious what a healthy diet and sauna regimen would do to these inflammatory markers that the ANVS study is discussing. Lol
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May 21, 2021 16:27
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Ola posted:
 I see now the error of my ways. It's been a journey of humility, growth and wisdom.
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May 21, 2021 16:31
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https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29897261/
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May 21, 2021 16:46
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More self administered questionnaire bullshit, just what we need in these tough times
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May 21, 2021 16:50
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LibCrusher posted:ANVS cured Alzheimer’s. Anybody here have it? Why couldn’t this one be the $GOON? Rad news, though.
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May 21, 2021 16:57
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I don't know how to trade pharmaceutical companies. One time Moderna strait up cured hepatitis C, and they lost me money. Releasing the Harvoni drug was in Oct 2014 and its effectively the all time high of the stock (it was higher like a month in 2015) then it fell from 118 to 60-70 where it remains today. I guess everyone with Hep C had been cured? I had some Mylan back when they were in the news for their crooked EpiPen monopoly yet somehow even gouging 1000% their stock did horribly.
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May 21, 2021 17:01
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It wasn't $GOON because their ground floor was ages ago But holy crap, a jump from $25 to $75 in a day, god drat
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May 21, 2021 17:01
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