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OctaMurk posted:It is though. Hamas is shooting rockets randomly at cities, like shooting into a crowd with a shotgun, how can you justify that? loving lol
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May 21, 2021 22:45
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Nebalebadingdong posted:progressive zionists, no longer able to reconcile the increasingly obvious incompatibility between the two ideologies, are now advocating openly for Cowardice loving pussy fucks. If you claim to be political take a loving stand then!
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May 21, 2021 22:53
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Madkal posted:By all means but then you have to admit that all actions are justified, and because Hamas is targeting civilians every civilian death will be justified too Actually, you must admit that the US should furnish Hamas with precision-guided munitions, suitable launching platforms, the necessary training, and then force-protection such that the Palestinians can prosecute war against the Israelis in our understanding of jus ad bellum.
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May 21, 2021 22:55
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Nebalebadingdong posted:progressive zionists, no longer able to reconcile the increasingly obvious incompatibility between the two ideologies, are now advocating openly for Cowardice https://forward.com/opinion/469886/what-can-we-do-to-help-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-stay-out-of-it/ There's a link to the actual opinion piece you've actively made it hard for people to read.
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May 21, 2021 23:36
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waydownLo posted:Actually, you must admit that the US should furnish Hamas with precision-guided munitions, suitable launching platforms, the necessary training, and then force-protection such that the Palestinians can prosecute war against the Israelis in our understanding of jus ad bellum. Its a net win for the MIC!
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May 21, 2021 23:40
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https://twitter.com/andraydomise/status/1395549257940316165?s=20 Israel's social media policy is to be huge crying babies.
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May 22, 2021 00:35
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Discendo Vox posted:https://forward.com/opinion/469886/what-can-we-do-to-help-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-stay-out-of-it/ The lede is the dissertation and frankly its a trash article with the goal to obfuscate an insanely black and white conflict. Love the bit where they call hamas a Islamic militant group while white washing the IDF. Many sides and complicated issues with my tax dollars being used to level a civilian population
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May 22, 2021 00:39
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Discendo Vox posted:https://forward.com/opinion/469886/what-can-we-do-to-help-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-stay-out-of-it/ that was on purpose because you shouldn't read articles from the forward dot com
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May 22, 2021 00:47
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Discendo Vox posted:https://forward.com/opinion/469886/what-can-we-do-to-help-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-stay-out-of-it/ wait wait wait are you telling me that the answer might lie somewhere... in the middle?
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May 22, 2021 00:55
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Terminal autist posted:How much is the IDF paying nowadays out of curiosity? No, they have an app and they've done it for free since '92.
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May 22, 2021 01:06
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So a few years ago people were calling the Quassam a rocket made of piss and I'm trying to find a source because did they mean actual urine?
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May 22, 2021 02:10
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HootTheOwl posted:So a few years ago people were calling the Quassam a rocket made of piss and I'm trying to find a source because did they mean actual urine? They're fueled by sugar and potassium nitrate, which can be extracted from urine (though they just buy fertilizer afaik).
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May 22, 2021 02:15
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Nonsense posted:https://twitter.com/andraydomise/status/1395549257940316165?s=20 Iranians had a similarly sympathetic response, with candle light vigils, 60,000 soccer fans observing a full minute of silence for the victims, and frankly very earnest sympathies for the american victims and condemnations for the terrorists from both the top religious and political leaders.
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May 22, 2021 02:18
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Nebalebadingdong posted:that was on purpose because you shouldn't read articles from the forward dot com It's pretty simple and not a new rule, don't poo poo up threads with content- and context-free ragebait.
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May 22, 2021 03:34
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Discendo Vox posted:It's pretty simple and not a new rule, don't poo poo up threads with content- and context-free ragebait. that article was colonizer apologia so this is a pretty ironic post
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May 22, 2021 03:43
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punishedkissinger posted:that article was colonizer apologia so this is a pretty ironic post Then there's no benefit in posting a clipped image of it rather than linking it so people can actually discuss its abhorrent content. Again, this isn't a new rule.
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May 22, 2021 03:50
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This sort of seems like a clear win for Hamas/loss for Israel, do we agree? Seems the ethnic conflict among Israeli citizens proper and the degree of global hostility caught them off guard. Israel may have picked all the low hanging fruit as it were in its occupation, proceeding further is going to have greatly increasing costs
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May 22, 2021 06:38
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icantfindaname posted:This sort of seems like a clear win for Hamas/loss for Israel, do we agree? Seems the ethnic conflict among Israeli citizens proper and the degree of global hostility caught them off guard. Israel may have picked all the low hanging fruit as it were in its occupation, proceeding further is going to have greatly increasing costs I don't know if Israel tangibly lost anything, but Netanyahu doesn't seem to care about much besides the short-term. It sure doesn't look like the military situation has changed.
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May 22, 2021 07:12
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OctaMurk posted:It is though. Hamas is shooting rockets randomly at cities, like shooting into a crowd with a shotgun, how can you justify that? Genocide is bad lol
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May 22, 2021 08:49
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icantfindaname posted:This sort of seems like a clear win for Hamas/loss for Israel, do we agree? Seems the ethnic conflict among Israeli citizens proper and the degree of global hostility caught them off guard. Israel may have picked all the low hanging fruit as it were in its occupation, proceeding further is going to have greatly increasing costs Uh, Israel demonstrated that it can act with impunity, that it's defences have improved to the point where Hamas's traditional tactics (rocket barrages, tunnelling assaults) have been effectively negated, and now has a population slightly more radical and happy about the above, including some pretty clear signalling that the government seems confident that future conflicts won't involve conscripts getting send into new-Stalingrad again. The status quo endures, which is one in which Israel has effectively total freedom of action. The only way this is a win for Hamas is that their credentials as the leadership of the resistance movement remain good and the saving of Netanyahu has probably delayed his replacement on the Israeli right by someone considerably less moderate for another few years. e: Hamas's clearly stated objective was that Israel had to remove security forces from the Temple Mount, immediately after the ceasefire Israeli security forces stormed the Temple Mount mosque. This was very much about both sides signalling a willingness to fight without actually wanting a full-blown conflict so the stated objectives are a bit of a red herring, but I imagine the Israeli government is pretty satisfied with how things panned out. Alchenar fucked around with this message at 08:55 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 08:51
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Alchenar posted:Uh, Israel demonstrated that it can act with impunity, that it's defences have improved to the point where Hamas's traditional tactics (rocket barrages, tunnelling assaults) have been effectively negated, and now has a population slightly more radical and happy about the above, including some pretty clear signalling that the government seems confident that future conflicts won't involve conscripts getting send into new-Stalingrad again. He was about to be replaced by Bennett who is further to the right than he is.
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May 22, 2021 08:56
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"Hamas sucks" really should not be a controversial opinion, though their piss rocket firing has very little to do with it. They're conservative fundamentalists and like all conservative fundamentalists, they are terrible people who are themselves oppressing the population under their rule. It is sad that the PLO has fallen so goddamn far that they're practically collaborationists at the moment.
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May 22, 2021 08:59
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Madkal posted:Agreed that the Irgun were terrorists. I'm kind of surprised though at the defense and justification for Hamas here though. Are goons longing for the days of bus bombings too? No one here is defending Hamas, we are simply saying; if you want to have an apartheid state or ethnic cleansing, you’re going to get terrorism. This has been the truth in all of history and It isn’t surprising. The easiest way to avoid it is to not do a genocide but the people in charge seem to think it’s a fair exchange.
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May 22, 2021 09:16
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They’re all “terrorists” until the oppressor is destroyed and then they are rewritten as “freedom fighters”
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May 22, 2021 10:49
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https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1395716586342948865 I dunno guys, it seems to me like the ceasefire doesn't mean much to Israel
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May 22, 2021 11:08
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OctaMurk posted:It is though. Hamas is shooting rockets randomly at cities, like shooting into a crowd with a shotgun, how can you justify that? Most of the Israeli population are military reservists. Bye some of the justification that Israel uses, that makes most of the Israeli population targets
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May 22, 2021 11:13
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Testekill posted:https://twitter.com/ajplus/status/1395716586342948865 Israel has never seen a ceasefire it didnt love to break.
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May 22, 2021 13:16
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:They’re all “terrorists” until the oppressor is destroyed and then they are rewritten as “freedom fighters” That feels like it describes a lot of different groups and organizations in palestine but hamas? Hamas seems like a purely bad for everyone organization. It doesn't seem like there would ever be a world they were looked fondly on.
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May 22, 2021 13:35
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:It doesn't seem like there would ever be a world they were looked fondly on. There's plenty of scenarios, however unlikely, that would codify Hamas as heroes among palestinians on the level of Arafat. The most obvious one being if Israel accepted their proposal for a ten year truce (in exchange for a return to 1967 borders and a lifting of the blockade, they've been proposing this for as long as they've been in government & codified it in their second charter); if they somehow pulled that off they'd be responsible for a secure, largely autonomous Palestine free of West Bank settlers and bombing massacres. Not a single palestinian would give a poo poo about their religious extremism. Speaking of such though, there's a schism in Hamas between the hardliners and the pragmatists, largely as a result of expanding to cover governmental roles and the assassination & replacement of core leaders. It's what lead to the 2017 Hamas Covenant, which moderates upon the first in a number of key ways. Now, if your argument isn't of extremism but the tactics they employ which makes their image impossible to reform, I'd heartily recommend looking at what both anti-Apartheid organizations and zionist terrorists were up to before they won. The latter got away with bombing a hotel full of civilians just to destroy evidence implicating their leader in terror attacks. Not even a blip beyond "we totally meant to send a warning but it got lost in the mail, we cool?"
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May 22, 2021 14:23
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:That feels like it describes a lot of different groups and organizations in palestine but hamas? Hamas seems like a purely bad for everyone organization. It doesn't seem like there would ever be a world they were looked fondly on.
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May 22, 2021 14:24
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Discendo Vox posted:Then there's no benefit in posting a clipped image of it rather than linking it so people can actually discuss its abhorrent content. Again, this isn't a new rule. They treated it with the level of respect it deserved.
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May 22, 2021 14:37
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Neurolimal posted:There's plenty of scenarios, however unlikely, that would codify Hamas as heroes among palestinians on the level of Arafat. The most obvious one being if Israel accepted their proposal for a ten year truce (in exchange for a return to 1967 borders and a lifting of the blockade, they've been proposing this for as long as they've been in government & codified it in their second charter); if they somehow pulled that off they'd be responsible for a secure, largely autonomous Palestine free of West Bank settlers and bombing massacres. Not a single palestinian would give a poo poo about their religious extremism. I don't think they're focusing on anti-Israel activities at all but on stuff like curtailing womens' rights in Gaza, demolishing a waterpark (before even the IDF got around to it), lynching a christian book seller, that kind of thing. They aren't nice folks. Then again, Stalin and Churchill weren't nice folks and the correct response to that isn't "Hitler has a right to defend himself"
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May 22, 2021 15:22
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Neurolimal posted:There's plenty of scenarios, however unlikely, that would codify Hamas as heroes among palestinians on the level of Arafat. The most obvious one being if Israel accepted their proposal for a ten year truce (in exchange for a return to 1967 borders and a lifting of the blockade, they've been proposing this for as long as they've been in government & codified it in their second charter); if they somehow pulled that off they'd be responsible for a secure, largely autonomous Palestine free of West Bank settlers and bombing massacres. Not a single palestinian would give a poo poo about their religious extremism. I mean, the scenario would be they win become a horrible, brutal, hard line right wing extremist country. As with israel (or america) right wing extremism has supporters. Like no one that would be posting in this thread should see hamas as anything good or beneficial to palestine any more than trump is good or america. The enemy of your enemy isn't actually your friend.
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May 22, 2021 17:16
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I mean, the scenario would be they win become a horrible, brutal, hard line right wing extremist country. As with israel (or america) right wing extremism has supporters. Like no one that would be posting in this thread should see hamas as anything good or beneficial to palestine any more than trump is good or america. The enemy of your enemy isn't actually your friend. Hamas is beneficial to Palestine as an element of armed resistance to Israeli oppression and occupation. Your discussion of their wider Islamist ambition or internal policies is many steps removed from Palestinian statehood, and thus irrelevant, at least currently. It's just a useful boondoggle for Israel apologists to point to Hamas and say "See? Islamists!"
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May 22, 2021 17:22
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Cefte posted:There's a reason they won the 2006 elections - they were enormously less corrupt than FATAH and spent a plurality of their operating budget on ground-level welfare programmes, rather than military expenditures (which was the popular Western perception) or outright Swiss bank embezzlement. How have they done in the elections since 2006?
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May 22, 2021 17:31
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How are u posted:How have they done in the elections since 2006? There haven't been any if I remember correctly?
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May 22, 2021 17:43
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Josef bugman posted:There haven't been any if I remember correctly? Thats the joke lol We'll never know, because Fatah keeps postponing the elections every time it looks like Hamas will make major gains. Which appears to be . . .every single time there would be an election!
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May 22, 2021 17:47
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This is absolutely a win for Israel (although more specifically Bibi himself) in every way. Israel could have just kept bombing if they wanted to. It's not like Biden would have actually threatened to take significant action.
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May 22, 2021 18:01
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:no one that would be posting in this thread should see hamas as anything good or beneficial to palestine any more than trump is good or america. For Palestinians at the moment, the only viable choices are Hamas or annihilation. In the US, the only viable choices have never been Trump or annihilation.
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May 22, 2021 18:05
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Jonathan greenblatt of the ADL has decided to claim that anti-semitic attacks have been on the rise against American Jews due to Israel's war of conquest. It's really funny to hear that especially when the ADL is official position is that Zionism is quote not that bad unquote and definitely not a white supremacist movement. I think this is Israel's first barrage in an renewed attempt to court the American Jews as their Evangelical base is no longer standing the tests of time. During the 80s 90s and early Bush era 2000s the Evangelical Christians needed to be courted to ensure that Israel maintain their funding from the American government. However we can expect false flag attacks against American Jews by Israeli intelligence services to ensure a supportive base. Especially with the fact that Israeli Jews have considered American Jews to be written off as never going to help us and instead spend time courting evangelicas because of the points outlined above. Now some backstory. I have a full on Jewish last name adopted from my mothers ex husband. But I'm light olive brown. So I'm considered an Israeli by anyone in the know. earlier in the conflict I had a full on Zionist cannabis guy congratulate me on finally executing the final solution on Palestine thinking I was a fellow Israeli. I'm not staying that anti semitism doesn't exist. But saying it's ramped up against American Jews because of Israel is actually loving hilarious in the worst way. Nazis love Israel. Especially Evangelical Christians. They eat up the idea of the Jews all going to Israel and being 10k miles away from them. They want to kill Jews eventually but supporting Israel is in their best interest. Their support is just weakining at the same scale that american religious pop is weakining. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 18:10 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 18:05
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