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Is there any article, CDC report or whatever that says how low-risk surface transmission of COVID is? My library is finally set to reopen, and last I checked everybody was adamant about not accepting IDs from people to scan for new library cards, and not taking money from them for making copies or prints, etc. I think it's completely silly, I've read a couple of articles that say as much, and I think the way we're planning on handling things is ridiculous. I just didn't know if there were any official statements about surface transmission I could cite to try and argue my case. I feel like we're going to have our hands full with certain people just trying to get them to wear a mask at this point, let alone telling them they have to send us an email and wait a few days to even be able to check stuff out.
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May 22, 2021 21:31
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https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1396205523737919489?s=21
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May 22, 2021 21:55
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King Vidiot posted:Is there any article, CDC report or whatever that says how low-risk surface transmission of COVID is? My library is finally set to reopen, and last I checked everybody was adamant about not accepting IDs from people to scan for new library cards, and not taking money from them for making copies or prints, etc. I think it's completely silly, I've read a couple of articles that say as much, and I think the way we're planning on handling things is ridiculous. I just didn't know if there were any official statements about surface transmission I could cite to try and argue my case. https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30678-2/fulltext It’s kind of frustrating how many places are focusing on stuff like deep cleaning even though it’s basically useless. I guess it’s nice and viable though so it makes people feel better.
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May 22, 2021 22:22
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Was in Costco today. A TON of chuddy looking people with no masks - the only ones who weren't wearing them, in fact. You know they type - big bellies, bigger beards, trucker hats, american flag shirts. Pretty sad sight to see. But I'm SURE they all got their vaccines. Suuuuure.
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May 22, 2021 22:49
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Basically everyone I’ve seen in Albany is still wearing masks, I was surprised. I think I saw one person without one since Wednesday.
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May 22, 2021 22:54
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Ugly In The Morning posted:It’s kind of frustrating how many places are focusing on stuff like deep cleaning even though it’s basically useless. I guess it’s nice and viable though so it makes people feel better. If places are doing the deep cleaning instead of actually helpful covid-preventative stuff like dealing with ventilation then yeah, it's frustrating. But I hope they keep up with sanitizing more because it does help with OTHER pathogens. I was attuned to surface transmission way before the pandemic, like always disinfecting grocery cart handles before use, and viewing doorknobs as an existential threat. Even if surface transmission is not really a thing with covid it is with other illnesses, and I'd like to see some of that focus on making surfaces less gross continue.
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May 22, 2021 23:13
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Spinz posted:I'll take my probe I don't give a gently caress forget it Spinz, it's GBS
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May 22, 2021 23:16
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CaptainSarcastic posted:If places are doing the deep cleaning instead of actually helpful covid-preventative stuff like dealing with ventilation then yeah, it's frustrating. But I hope they keep up with sanitizing more because it does help with OTHER pathogens. I was attuned to surface transmission way before the pandemic, like always disinfecting grocery cart handles before use, and viewing doorknobs as an existential threat. Even if surface transmission is not really a thing with covid it is with other illnesses, and I'd like to see some of that focus on making surfaces less gross continue. The problem is more the extent of the cleanings than the fact they’re doing it. There’s diminishing returns and if you’re mandating 8 cleanings a day, then doing them in active work areas is unavoidable. I’ve had to deal with multiple people getting cleaning supplies in their eyes because of it, it’s getting stupid.
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May 22, 2021 23:22
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CaptainSarcastic posted:If places are doing the deep cleaning instead of actually helpful covid-preventative stuff like dealing with ventilation then yeah, it's frustrating. But I hope they keep up with sanitizing more because it does help with OTHER pathogens. I was attuned to surface transmission way before the pandemic, like always disinfecting grocery cart handles before use, and viewing doorknobs as an existential threat. Even if surface transmission is not really a thing with covid it is with other illnesses, and I'd like to see some of that focus on making surfaces less gross continue. The one thing they've been missing around here is scooters and I'd love to see those heavily sanitized in the future, even if I have to wipe them down myself. I don't have to use them a lot, but it's an occasional thing and it'd be nice to know they're not gross; especially when a lot of disabled and chronically ill folks (like me) use them.
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May 22, 2021 23:26
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Ugly In The Morning posted:It’s kind of frustrating how many places are focusing on stuff like deep cleaning even though it’s basically useless. I guess it’s nice and viable though so it makes people feel better. this probably did help with the mild cold/flu season, though
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May 22, 2021 23:27
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I got the 2nd dose vaccine two days ago and the side effects it hit me like a ton of bricks but today I feel much better
Click here to visit Agora Road's Macintosh Cafe A Nostalgic Y2K Community Forum
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May 22, 2021 23:28
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poverty goat posted:this probably did help with the mild cold/flu season, though To an extent, the flu is like ~4 percent fomite spread. The masks helped a lot more. I’m not averse to cleaning stuff but there’s a hyper focus on it and fomite spread in general (see that post about the IDs for the library) that I don’t like.
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May 22, 2021 23:32
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Ugly In The Morning posted:To an extent, the flu is like ~4 percent fomite spread. The masks helped a lot more. I’m not averse to cleaning stuff but there’s a hyper focus on it and fomite spread in general (see that post about the IDs for the library) that I don’t like. I totally agree it should be within reason, and overkill is not helpful. But seeing an overall improvement compared to the beforetimes would be welcome. I read studies about the stuff they found on grocery cart handles and it galvanized me to always disinfect them, and I take a similar approach with other things handled by others. My own situation is complicated by the fact I have a pretty reactive eczema, so using alcohol-based hand sanitizer is not really possible for me. Well, unless I want to get weeping hives all over my hands. The soap in a lot of public restrooms is the same kind of gamble. It's much easier for me to use sanitizing cloths and avoid touching things, and the surface cleaning helps.
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May 22, 2021 23:37
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Once a week they roll through and spray all the common areas (halls, laundry rooms, mail room, etc.) with vaporized hydrogen peroxide, I think? They've been doing it once a week for a year. Thanks, but I'd rather see HEPA filters, eh? Have you done anything at all to improve the ventilation in those common areas? No? It started around May last year, and seemed really encouraging at first. But the more we learn about Covid the more it seems like sanitation theater. Money that could be better spent moderating airborne issues rather than focusing on fomites.
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May 22, 2021 23:40
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Facebook Aunt posted:Once a week they roll through and spray all the common areas (halls, laundry rooms, mail room, etc.) with vaporized hydrogen peroxide, I think? They've been doing it once a week for a year. Thanks, but I'd rather see HEPA filters, eh? Have you done anything at all to improve the ventilation in those common areas? No? Hydrogen peroxide is one of those things I get annoyed about, because for the most part that is sanitizing theater. It DOES work to disinfect, if you leave it on a hard surface for a period of time, from memory I think around 20 minutes. It does NOT work for disinfecting cuts and such, and is actually more likely to cause minor surface irritation than anything else. But the bubbles make it seem like it's doing something. That's going by memory, but I'm pretty confident the way most people use hydrogen peroxide is due to the continuation of old-wives-tale level misinformation.
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May 22, 2021 23:49
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Yeah, we've been cleaning surfaces during the pandemic and will continue to do so, I was mainly talking about a policy we thought up way back at the start where even though we were doing limited curbside we weren't accepting IDs so we can copy them for our records. So there was a "workaround" involving temporary accounts, etc., and I think at this stage that's going way overboard. It was overboard back then, too, but we didn't know as much as we know now. Also paper money and coins aren't really transmitters of coronavirus, either.
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May 22, 2021 23:53
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Hydrogen peroxide is one of those things I get annoyed about, because for the most part that is sanitizing theater. It DOES work to disinfect, if you leave it on a hard surface for a period of time, from memory I think around 20 minutes. It does NOT work for disinfecting cuts and such, and is actually more likely to cause minor surface irritation than anything else. But the bubbles make it seem like it's doing something. It shouldn’t be the first choice for cleaning surfaces, but it’s good to have in a first aid kit. Hydrogen peroxide is good for puncture wounds because it gets in there, it forces the thing open a little with its bubbling action, and it hopefully murders any anærobic bacteria hanging out down there. Now if it’s a wound that can and should be seen by a doctor, do that.
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May 23, 2021 00:01
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AFAIK it's still mandated by UK law to do extensive cleaning multiple times a week in work places. At my place we're only just planning for 5 of us (out of 50) to start working in the office again from next month. We still have to get somebody to clean the office top to bottom every few days even though it does next to nothing to make any difference to anything when there's 5 people spread far apart in the building. At least somebody's being paid though I guess?
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May 23, 2021 00:14
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Super deep cleans is definitely excessive. What I'd like to see is the normalization of stuff like having separate clean/used pens for paperwork, disinfecting of things multiple people touch/handle (clipboards, doorknobs, punch pads), and more availability of non-alcohol disinfecting wipes.
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May 23, 2021 00:18
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Spinz posted:I'll take my probe I don't give a gently caress username / post combo. 😀 Azathoth Prime fucked around with this message at 00:40 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 00:23
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Snowglobe of Doom posted:India check in: conditions are still incredibly loving bad and massively underrported Holy poo poo. It's the apocalypse over there. BBC News posted:It has recorded more than 25 million cases and 275,000 deaths, but experts say the real death toll is several times higher. So they've very likely lost over a million people by now, possibly several million. That's horrifying. BBC News posted:A day later, six miles (10km) from Chausa, dozens of heavily decomposed bodies were found strewn on the river bank in Gahmar village in Uttar Pradesh's Ghazipur district, with feral dogs and crows feasting on them. ... Azathoth Prime fucked around with this message at 00:55 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 00:40
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Just a reminder that the political party Modi belongs to was founded by Nazi sympathizers
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May 23, 2021 01:09
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CaptainSarcastic posted:Super deep cleans is definitely excessive. What I'd like to see is the normalization of stuff like having separate clean/used pens for paperwork, disinfecting of things multiple people touch/handle (clipboards, doorknobs, punch pads), and more availability of non-alcohol disinfecting wipes. I would argue please deep clean more, all the deep cleaning. We have this 24 hour sickness bug in the UK that kids are particularly susceptible to, and can repeatedly get, and our special needs school has to be shut down and deep cleaned over and over again because that’s the only guaranteed way of getting rid of it. I would really really like a side effect of this coronavirus be that this particular bug is wiped out.
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May 23, 2021 01:18
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learnincurve posted:I would argue please deep clean more, all the deep cleaning. We have this 24 hour sickness bug in the UK that kids are particularly susceptible to, and can repeatedly get, and our special needs school has to be shut down and deep cleaned over and over again because that’s the only guaranteed way of getting rid of it. Fair enough. Here in the US I'm kind of used to seeing "Genericville's Schools Closed Due To Rotavirus Outbreak" or things like that. It's usually something people colloquially refer to as "stomach flu," and is vomiting and diarrhea from rotavirus, norovirus, and things like that. I think I have the virus names at least close to right, but in any case it is frequent outbreaks of mild illnesses which could be better prevented.
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May 23, 2021 01:39
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I caught public transport here in Melbourne Australia a few days ago and even though we've had basically zero community spread for month and months (apart from one case who actually caught it interstate) they're still SUPER keen on cleaning everything as often as possible. There's signs up all through the trams reminding people that they're deep cleaned every night and I also noticed that when the trams get to the terminus and all the passengers get out there's several staff members standing by who wipe down all the door handles and buttons, so each tram must get wiped down at least a dozen times every day. Welcome to the new normal, I guess. Also masks are still required on public transport here even though they're not required anywhere else apart from hospitals. People were pretty lax about it on the tram when I caught it (maybe 50% were masked up) but apparently they're going to start cracking down and fining people if they refuse to wear masks https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-05-23/victoria-faces-fines-for-breaching-covid-mask-rules-on-transport/100158700
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May 23, 2021 06:27
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https://i.imgur.com/Ax8rk19.mp4 If u think about it, being massmurdered in a gas chamber was also uncomfortable and inconvenient so this argument makes perfect sense!! 
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May 23, 2021 07:30
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Interesting that the UK government have been parroting that vaccines are still 85-90% effective against known variants in preventing symptomatic disease when the report from public health England last night that contains real world data shows AZ to be around 66% effective for B117 and 59.8% effective against B1617.2. That's after both jabs.
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May 23, 2021 08:24
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mr_jolly posted:Interesting that the UK government have been parroting that vaccines are still 85-90% effective against known variants in preventing symptomatic disease when the report from public health England last night that contains real world data shows AZ to be around 66% effective for B117 and 59.8% effective against B1617.2. That's after both jabs. Are they giving the “against serious illness” numbers?
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May 23, 2021 08:28
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Ugly In The Morning posted:Are they giving the “against serious illness” numbers? Not that I could see, full report is here: https://assets.publishing.service.g..._12_England.pdf Posted the wrong link, here's the table: https://mobile.twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1396374004349419523 mr_jolly fucked around with this message at 09:11 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 08:58
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They key/weasel word is symptomatic The current UK government policy is “we couldn’t give a poo poo so long as hospital admissions stay down” and to open up vaccines to everyone in areas where the sewage is testing high.
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May 23, 2021 09:05
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So now that gubment tracker chip (that is tiny enough to fit through a needle) they shot into our arms are supposed to be strong enough to hold a magnet https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oGofOuai1k
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May 23, 2021 09:14
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ShadowHawk posted:It's also the same CDC that advises everyone to overcook meat products A friend of mine pointed out the CDC, out of an abundance of caution, recommends not eating runny eggs. Yes, Salmonella is serious but I eat runny eggs. Why does this relate? Covid is the largest health crisis in our history in scale and effect in this era of scientific possibility. Any announcement by the CDC here would be heavily reviewed, scrutinized, analyzed and met with serious resistance from internal scientists if this announcement was unacceptably dangerous. I trusted the science when it told me to be safe and stay home, to wear a mask and to get the vaccines. I trust the science now. We have to. lol j/k it’s a Metafilter comment
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May 23, 2021 10:00
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I suspect that if you don't wash yourself long enough, magnets and other objects will indeed stick to your skin.
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May 23, 2021 10:06
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sad question posted:I suspect that if you don't wash yourself long enough, magnets and other objects will indeed stick to your skin. The trick is the residual adhesive from the bandage. 
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May 23, 2021 10:08
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or just being a clammy fucker
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May 23, 2021 10:51
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King Vidiot posted:Is there any article, CDC report or whatever that says how low-risk surface transmission of COVID is? My library is finally set to reopen, and last I checked everybody was adamant about not accepting IDs from people to scan for new library cards, and not taking money from them for making copies or prints, etc. I think it's completely silly, I've read a couple of articles that say as much, and I think the way we're planning on handling things is ridiculous. I just didn't know if there were any official statements about surface transmission I could cite to try and argue my case. The CDC's page on surface transmission: https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/more/science-and-research/surface-transmission.html Basically there are case reports suggesting fomite transmission (we saw cases like these posted in the thread throughout 2020) but it's impossible to accurately determine the risk of fomite transmission relative to respiratory transmission. We already know that the virus can be spread through the air by an asymptomatic carrier, and that's a lot easier than someone accidentally shoving virus into their nose with their hands, so any case where fomite transmission could have occurred was probably beaten to the punch by respiratory transmission anyway. But surface sanitation and hand-washing are correlated with decreased transmission risk, so clearly the fomite risk isn't negligible. The CDC page links to a study suggesting that the fomite transmission risk is maybe 1 in 10,000; specifically, that each time a fomite is touched by a healthy person there's a 0.01% likelihood of creating a covid-19 case. That may seem small, but that's the chance for every touch; how many library cards, dollar bills, and book covers might get handled in a single month? There's definitely prudence in minimizing the number of these touch interactions, even if we were just talking about flu season rather than the covid-19 pandemic
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May 23, 2021 11:43
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QuarkJets posted:
Every time a contaminated surface is touched, and that same article mentions that nonporous surfaces like library cards and book covers are contaminated for no more than minutes. Even pour our ones don’t have a long time where the virus lasts on them- the CDC mentions 3 days and also points out that that’s under lab conditions that are made to maximize time the virus is intact.
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May 23, 2021 11:54
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You can absolutely do better than three days* if you’re going for the high score. *By a factor of seven. My take is that the reason we don’t see more fomite transmission isn’t that the virus degrades on surfaces, it’s that the transfers between carrier and surface and between surface and new host are inefficient.
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May 23, 2021 12:03
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Platystemon posted:You can absolutely do better than three days* if you’re going for the high score. I think it’s more likely to be both, it degrades like hell on surfaces and the transfers are inefficient. You basically have to jam it up your nose to get infected via fomite.
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May 23, 2021 12:06
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I think the problem here is that all of these measures seemed sensible in the very beginning when we didn't know anything really except that they were detecting covid RNA on surfaces for a very long time in the preliminary stuff. And then there was just never a big announcement that it was time to start licking guardrails again and stop bleaching the bananas so some people have been living under the full spring 2020 lockdown panic rules this whole time e: and they probably think we're the assholes who just aren't doing our due diligence as a result
poverty goat fucked around with this message at 12:48 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 12:46
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