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A little bit anticilmatic but I have been thinking about this. Going back to how I think there isn't going to be a big final fight between Guts amd Griffith. I think the best way Gurs would show that he's done with the whole revenge business would him just giving it back to Griffith and him"I don't need this anymore. gently caress off and leave me alone."
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May 22, 2021 23:02
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Falconia and Elfheim are basically the same. I don't think Guts and Griffith fighting makes sense. Its the Godhand vs Gaiseric and all the spirits or whatever. It would be more satisfying if Griffith gets reverted to his crippled form and just fades away into the abyss. Honoring him with a duel would be cliched, already done in the story, and a disservice to Guts. Like someone said, the possibilities are all over the place. temple fucked around with this message at 23:47 on May 22, 2021 |
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May 22, 2021 23:40
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I'm curious Do you think its possible if Guts somehow broke the brand on him and Casca, that could rob Griffith of his power and reduce him to what he was?
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May 22, 2021 23:46
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As far as Griffith's fate, it seems to me that ultimately he'll fade and fully change into Guts and Casca's child.
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May 22, 2021 23:52
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 I picked up the berserk deluxe editions and decided it was time to finally sit down and read berserk properly.
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May 23, 2021 00:11
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Yeah I grabbed them a few months back too. Vol 1 took the longest.
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May 23, 2021 00:13
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https://youtu.be/3RA6SPNP8ps One of the more interesting looks into the psychology of Berserk and how Guts has grown. Been thinking about Guts' growth and where he could have gone next. Sydin posted:I was torn between the predictable happening of Griffith attacking Elfheim and forcing Guts and co to flee, or Guts rationalizing his revenge by deciding Casca is finally safe and his presence only makes her suffer, so he sneaks off with SK and kicks off a journey by everybody he left behind to reunite with him. The thing I loved most about that part of the story is Guts standing at the edge of a cliff. Makes me think about where our boy has come from. Before when he fell into his rage and headed off, leaving Casca behind he was serving himself. When he came to the realisation that he shouldn't run from his problems that was one of the pivotal moments of his development, that in being there for Casca he was doing what he wanted, not what someone else told him to do. He admitted it was hard caring for both himself and her and was exhausted. Along that path however he managed to get Isidrio to tag along, saved Farnese despite her desire to imprison him, had her tag along, fought and had the opportunity to kill Serpico but stopped, helped Schierke, become her care taker...all of these things are from him changing his ways. At that cliff he simply doesn't know what to do, he didn't run really (or couldn't), he never forced himself to see Casca too quickly, he has marured so much and fostered these solid relationships whom he's learned to trust. From where he's been to where he is now, he's getting so clost to accepting the darkness within him which feels like the next part of his journey, to overcome letting that beast inside consume him. He no longer has nothing to lose, he's gained so much by confronting himself from that decision he made in that dwarf cave. I'm so happy we got to see Miura's vision of Guts up to this point.
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May 23, 2021 01:26
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Hel posted:Having only read a bit of the manga after previously( I think stopped reading around Volume 16), I took this opportunity to reread and finish it. Honestly I wish I could have read a bit more previously, because then I would have realized it wasn't really for me. To be fair, the dissonance is there to shake you and Guts out of the constant overwhelming dread and misery of the setting
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May 23, 2021 02:05
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David D. Davidson posted:There being some kind of magic undo button that fixes the world wouldn't really fit woth the story. I mean take a look at Casca, they managed to magic up a way to fixed her mind but still the underlying trauma is still there and she still has quite a ways to go before she's okay. I doubt killing Griffith or any kind of other magical fix would unfuck the world either, instead I think people would just have to learn how not just to survive but actually carry on and live in this new broken world. definitely not an undo button, the old world is gone forever but to twist antonio gramsci into something else entirely “The old world is dying, and the new world struggles to be born: now is the time of monsters.” a new world can yet be born
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May 23, 2021 02:26
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I always figured it would involve the witches helping humanity connect with the elemental spirits again that seemed to inhabit the world before organized religion sprung up and banished all that as heresy. The only real way to overcome the Godhand is to undo the hatred and fear the constitute the source of their power, as the Idea of Evil was born out of humanity’s anger at the meaningless of the world and a desire for there to be a reason for their suffering. Though I’m still a bit confused as to the cosmology of the Berserk world, in terms of whether the astral world only exists because of humans and their collective unconscious created a power that can be used as magic, or whether the fairies and most spirits are naturally existing and would be around whether humanity existed or not. But humanity’s rejection of parts of the world forced it to retreat into different layers of the astral world aside from the oases that magic users create. And then when Griffith melded the worlds, a lot of the creatures only exist because they’re stuff humanity imagined? Or dragons were always around but just a layer down in the astral substrata?
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May 23, 2021 04:04
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Ah, it's the golden age, this isn't gonna be that bad. Good times ahead. (I know that incredibly bad times are ahead)
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May 23, 2021 04:10
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Funny (not funny) thing about the recent news was that I was really considering reading through Berserk for the first time the last few weeks. Given what happened, should I still bother since it'll probably be forever unfinished?
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May 23, 2021 04:13
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Amazing TheLoneStar posted:Funny (not funny) thing about the recent news was that I was really considering reading through Berserk for the first time the last few weeks. Given what happened, should I still bother since it'll probably be forever unfinished? In a way it's like, idk, Hunter x Hunter, where there are so many arcs that even if the series had ended after certain events it would have been a good trip. Berserk is worth on its own. It's been a very slow burn lately. One of the biggest pending issues has been addressed, and it didn't really end on a cliffhanger. Elentor fucked around with this message at 04:17 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 04:14
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TheLoneStar posted:Funny (not funny) thing about the recent news was that I was really considering reading through Berserk for the first time the last few weeks. Given what happened, should I still bother since it'll probably be forever unfinished? Honestly yes. The final conclusion might never arrive but it ended at a solid enough time and as the discussion in the last few pages show-- the cliffhangers aren't really the point. It's not "it's all about the journey, not the destination" but more that the driving conflict of the entire story was showing every indication of being something the protagonist was going to choose to eschew."
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May 23, 2021 04:17
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Oh. Okay. Yeah this is where all this unpleasantness starts, huh?
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May 23, 2021 04:20
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In Berserk even the very best times are drenched in blood and the suffering of someone
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May 23, 2021 04:30
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Waffleman_ posted:Oh. Golden Age does not gently caress around. Welcome to the thesis statement of Berserk. Its rough and for people that basically know what happens in Golden Age, I tend to err on saying 'you can skim over it' because Golden Age lacks the balance of Berserk that it has after- no Puck, no cool monsters or sick rear end fights, its just human cruelty and ugliness on display and trauma. So much trauma. There are no heroes in the golden age- the few that try don't live very long. It's a fitting tale to explain why Guts is Guts and what his journey is about, but don't expect it to be fluffy edgelord crap like whatever nonsense has come after.
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May 23, 2021 04:30
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TheLoneStar posted:Funny (not funny) thing about the recent news was that I was really considering reading through Berserk for the first time the last few weeks. Given what happened, should I still bother since it'll probably be forever unfinished? Definitely. Berserk is a masterpiece, and it is extremely worth witnessing what it was.
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May 23, 2021 04:31
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Burkion posted:Golden Age does not gently caress around. This is an ungenerous interpretation of this story arc. There's also plenty of beauty, plenty of good times, moments of levity, people working together, achieving great things, finding comradery. To say it's all misery and trauma seems very wrong.
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May 23, 2021 04:33
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Alright, went ahead and decided to start, then. Got through chapter one, a lot longer than I thought, and Guts is certainly...interesting. I'm not 100% blind on Berserk, though really most of what I know is Guts' general backstory (or at least his childhood) and that Griffith was his friend and betrays while raping his love interest. I didn't expect Guts to be quite so brutal, though, not seeming to care too much about the innocent townsfolk. Or at least pretending not to. I do like how the very first panel literally opens with man-rear end and Guts having sex with some sort of monster. Quite a way to open the story. Also surprised at Puck, this comic relief character that really seems out of place given what I've heard of Berserk. He's so...cartoony, and it's kind of jarring when he's all chibi on the same page where some guy is getting cut in half or something. Curious to see what's going on, I assume soon there'll be a series of flashbacks telling us just what Guts' deal is. TheLoneStar fucked around with this message at 04:48 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 04:46
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Yeah, like I posted the other day, Berserk starts off almost cartoonishly edgy. If that's the tone it kept throughout its whole run, I don't think it would've gotten nearly as much attention as it ended up getting. Thankfully, it gets much better.
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May 23, 2021 04:48
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Also one more lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIUMQa4jlbU
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May 23, 2021 04:48
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TheLoneStar posted:Alright, went ahead and decided to start, then. Got through chapter one, a lot longer than I thought, and Guts is certainly...interesting. I'm not 100% blind on Berserk, though really most of what I know is Guts' general backstory (or at least his childhood) and that Griffith was his friend and betrays while raping his love interest. Without going into spoilers much, Guts is a VERY broken human being at the start of the manga
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May 23, 2021 04:50
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TheLoneStar posted:Also surprised at Puck, this comic relief character that really seems out of place given what I've heard of Berserk. He's so...cartoony, and it's kind of jarring when he's all chibi on the same page where some guy is getting cut in half or something. quote:I assume soon there'll be a series of flashbacks telling us just what Guts' deal is.
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May 23, 2021 04:54
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Please don't forget the classic https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MdfrMO9aaE
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May 23, 2021 04:55
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drrockso20 posted:Without going into spoilers much, Guts is a VERY broken human being at the start of the manga True, though I'll say that it doesn't necessarily come off as that in the first few volumes. You can see some PTSD reactions in Guts but it's mostly just him being a grimdark edgy rear end in a top hat. I honestly don't think Miura developed the ability to represent trauma in more a nuanced manner until years later. I love Berserk a lot, but even I'll say the first few volumes are not especially great.
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May 23, 2021 04:56
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Oh, it's Rickert! This guy is apparently a legend. E: Ergh, that homophobia
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May 23, 2021 04:57
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drrockso20 posted:Without going into spoilers much, Guts is a VERY broken human being at the start of the manga mind the walrus posted:Yeah Miura clearly had a grimdark vision but was also clearly trained by experienced mangaka and knew on an instinctual level that he needed something like Puck, even if Puck doesn't work at first. I do think he gets better as the first arc goes along, and by later chapters he's well-blended into the tone. Good to know. But man, six years? Considering what I've heard about the hiatuses with Berserk, something tells me it's not because the flashbacks take up a ton of chapters.
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May 23, 2021 05:00
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:I love Berserk a lot, but even I'll say the first few volumes are not especially great.
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May 23, 2021 05:00
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I, too, began reading Berserk tonight. Just wrapped up the Guardians of Desire arc and I'm about to begin The Golden Age.
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May 23, 2021 05:00
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TheLoneStar posted:Good to know. But man, six years? Considering what I've heard about the hiatuses with Berserk, something tells me it's not because the flashbacks take up a ton of chapters. The flashbacks take up a ton of chapters. Don't worry, though. They're very good flashbacks. edit: 101 chapters to be exact. I wouldn't say they're "flashbacks" so much, but that Berserk starts with an extended three-volume in media res section instead, and the Golden Age arc is you seeing things from the start as you'd expect. Dr. Video Games 0031 fucked around with this message at 05:06 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 05:03
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TheLoneStar posted:His facial expressions are at least amusing, and it's good to have a healer considering how abused Guts probably gets in every single battle. I don't hate him or anything, I was just surprised. quote:Good to know. But man, six years? Considering what I've heard about the hiatuses with Berserk, something tells me it's not because the flashbacks take up a ton of chapters. It's the same way that "A Song of Ice and Fire" had its first three books (around 3,000 pages) hammered out in 6 years, but the last two books took 5 and 6 years for each one respectively (and are much more noticeably aimless)-- sometimes the worst thing that can happen to an author is too much freedom.
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May 23, 2021 05:04
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The flashbacks take up a ton of chapters. Don't worry, though. They're very good flashbacks.
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May 23, 2021 05:04
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TheLoneStar posted:Good to know. But man, six years? Considering what I've heard about the hiatuses with Berserk, something tells me it's not because the flashbacks take up a ton of chapters. Nah, save the first year, the Golden Age arc was posted very consistently at around 2 chapters per month. Golden Age arc is just a very long flashback. The hiatus didn't start becoming a regular thing till Falcon of The Millenium arc in 2004. Before that he'd at worst miss publications for 1 month and a half. e: beaten to the point. But to make this post worth, Re: the first chapter due to some characterization that happens later on Miura kinda regreted the way he started the first chapter. Re: Puck, the first time I read the manga during the first arc I found him slightly annoying and thought he might have been a tool used by Miura being insecure at the time, since Puck would spell out what Guts was feeling when it was perfectly understandable just from the expressions. Later on this ability kinda completely phases out and Puck becomes a better character. lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 05:15 on May 23, 2021 |
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May 23, 2021 05:09
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mind the walrus posted:All but the most dieheard "you can't say anything negative ever" fans will agree that Miura was kind-of a victim of his own drawing talent, in multiple ways. He was too good to not be publishing at such a young age, but his characterization chops took some time to mature. But they did mature, and they matured drat well. Honestly even if the first three volumes(and some of the earliest bits of The Golden Age) are pretty much Berserk at it's edgiest overall it still feels that Miura has a purpose to said edginess rather than it just happening to try and be cool or worse because the person(s) working on it have an obvious guro fetish and can't keep it in their pants
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May 23, 2021 05:18
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Berserk is grimdark but it has a lot of comic relief. I like Claymore, it's less horrible but it's played completely straight, with no anime comedy. And also, much like Berserk's outtakes are great, the English sub of Claymore has some loving priceless commentary tracks from the voice actresses.
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May 23, 2021 05:20
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drrockso20 posted:Honestly even if the first three volumes(and some of the earliest bits of The Golden Age) are pretty much Berserk at it's edgiest overall it still feels that Miura has a purpose to said edginess rather than it just happening to try and be cool or worse because the person(s) working on it have an obvious guro fetish and can't keep it in their pants You just don't need to get too precious about it. Miura had a hard time balancing the very difficult blend of edgelord, comedy, and thematic weight early on. Y'know, like loving everyone would.
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May 23, 2021 05:22
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mind the walrus posted:Duh. Even if it didn't clearly come from a place of creative motivation, it's still perfectly serviceable edgelord seinen that's a cut above most of what usually gest published. What I mean is that even the most edgy moments tend to serve the plot and characterizations, it's not like say Blood C or Psycho-Pass where you can tell pretty much every violent scene was being drawn and animated by people who had one hand down their pants the whole time
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May 23, 2021 05:33
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drrockso20 posted:What I mean is that even the most edgy moments tend to serve the plot and characterizations, it's not like say Blood C or Psycho-Pass where you can tell pretty much every violent scene was being drawn and animated by people who had one hand down their pants the whole time Amen to that.
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May 23, 2021 05:36
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Eej posted:To be fair, the dissonance is there to shake you and Guts out of the constant overwhelming dread and misery of the setting I know why it's there but with the wacky Puck stuff it doesn't work for me in most of the story, while that jokes and stuff in the flashback do. It honestly just makes all the horrible stuff worse. It's hard to describe but I think it comes off to me as some stuff not really fitting with the rest of the world. And by doing so it comes of to me less like the characters suffer because the world is poo poo and the actions of other characters, but more because the author tortures them. Which is of course true of every story, but you mostly want to forget that as you are reading it. Another thought is that Puck being the one to make jokes about it is that he's pretty much the one primary character that doesn't suffer on the level of the rest, so him being the one making jokes comes of differently to me. I'm not saying I wanted Puck to be tortured, but having him be so distant from it has issues for me. Which could have worked fine if it was kept to the standard mischievous fairy level that the rest of the elves end up on. So yeah I know it's supposed to be a break from the dark stuff but by having it be so extreme as a counter the extremely grim stuff, if comes it to me less like a break and more like a car crash.
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May 23, 2021 05:41
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