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Is it worth watching the vods of the Vicky 3 panels from pdxcon?
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May 24, 2021 16:59
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I feel like parties should be dynamic if they exist at all; having parties that were hard coded and tied to specific dates doesn't really make a lot of sense.
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May 24, 2021 17:12
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In response to fan feedback, we are re-working the political system. Each ideology will now be represented by one political party, and for every legislative session (by default once every five years) each party can propose one piece of legislation, which can either be a Law or Motion...
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May 24, 2021 17:14
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Yea I think the interest group system sounded like an interesting way to represent what political parties are without actually tying yourself down to the nitty gritty details of what parties exist and think. Does make me wonder how elections would be represented - totally passively, or basically times that interest group power would be refreshed and updated? But in some countries the rising power of urban labours would be absorbed into a trade union party, in others it gets subsumed by the liberal party which accommodates them at the expense of another interest group.
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May 24, 2021 17:15
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Raenir Salazar posted:I feel like parties should be dynamic if they exist at all; having parties that were hard coded and tied to specific dates doesn't really make a lot of sense. One of the devs said on a discord that they (personally) were playing with an idea of making political parties/factions a dynamic label you get dependent on what Interest Groups you're pulling support from, somewhat simialr to the government flavor names in Stellaris. I at least thought this was a very neat idea.
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May 24, 2021 17:17
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If parties end up getting separated from demographic interest groups, a fun mod to make would be one that adds like ten separate leftist factions that agree on 90% of demands but also raise absolute hell if you try to make them coalition with each other.
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May 24, 2021 17:27
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We're definitely not replacing the interest groups at any rate, there's a lot of countries/political systems where parties don't make sense.
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May 24, 2021 17:30
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Randarkman posted:One of the devs said on a discord that they (personally) were playing with an idea of making political parties/factions a dynamic label you get dependent on what Interest Groups you're pulling support from, somewhat simialr to the government flavor names in Stellaris. I at least thought this was a very neat idea.
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May 24, 2021 18:05
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BigglesSWE posted:Did Victoria 2 have anything resembling an arms-race as a thing to happen? Since the build up of the German Navy was a major driving force in British foreign policy towards the 1910s, it would be interesting to see countries react to the developments of other countries, rather than just the active actions. yeah it was “be the first to unlock machine guns/gas attack and ironclads”
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May 24, 2021 18:13
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I'm not sure parties need to be a distinct category of extra moving parts, at least not for release. I also know nothing about how the game works beyond a reddit post and some alpha screenshots so I shouldn't be listened to, but how is having a separate layer that says "the Democratic Party is in power, backed by the Landowners and opposed by the Petit Bourgeois interest groups" usefully different from just having the Landowners in government and the Petit Boug in opposition?
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May 24, 2021 18:42
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feels wrong to have an economic system that isn't a black box powered by booze and imperialism tbh
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May 24, 2021 18:59
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Crazycryodude posted:I'm not sure parties need to be a distinct category of extra moving parts, at least not for release. I also know nothing about how the game works beyond a reddit post and some alpha screenshots so I shouldn't be listened to, but how is having a separate layer that says "the Democratic Party is in power, backed by the Landowners and opposed by the Petit Bourgeois interest groups" usefully different from just having the Landowners in government and the Petit Boug in opposition? If you refuse to use your imagination even a tiny bit then the idea that people vote for "the Rural Folk" is pretty dumb and you need someone to tell you that's not what is actually happening
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May 24, 2021 19:04
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Oh gosh, please don't listen to dumb fans afraid of change. Parties were terrible and often broke the game. For instance: People have been radicalized and elect the Communists. Communists arbitrarily oppose voting laws. The (communist) people like voting so you get a bunch of Jacobin rebels demanding voting rights. They succeed and the people... elect the Communists again. There is no reason to arbitrarily link a group of political ideas together in a "party", and if you're doing it dynamically then it's pointless. If people are up in arms about a little bit of flavor, fine, whatever. But I'll be very unhappy if anything as restrictive and frustrating as Victoria 2 parties get added.
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May 24, 2021 19:10
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Parties should be what they are in real life (in theory anyway...): a confluence of disparate but otherwise in-agreement interest groups that choose to be represented collectively. Let the parties form organically based on what interest groups want, don't have parties that just exist and so happen to appeal to enough interest groups to get into power.
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May 24, 2021 19:20
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Eiba posted:Oh gosh, please don't listen to dumb fans afraid of change. Parties were terrible and often broke the game. For instance: That rebel doom spiral was the worst thing about Victoria 2 and I hope its avoided/fixed. If only because needless micro is annoying at best to unmanageable at worst.
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May 24, 2021 19:33
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Yeah I don't really need a dynamic Populist Party to appear I'm entirely capable of just using my imagination to frame my ruling coalition of Rural Folk, Intellectuals, and Trade Unionists as the Populist Party and when the Trade Unionists get booted in favor of the Petit Bourgeois or something I can just imagine a new thing. If I were the omnipotent dictator of video games I wouldn't do parties as much more than a pure flavor bit of text localization off to the side of the interest groups/government screen, I don't see what the additional complexity adds except more moving parts for the simulation to break.
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May 24, 2021 19:33
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Eiba posted:Oh gosh, please don't listen to dumb fans afraid of change. Parties were terrible and often broke the game. For instance: This just means that parties were poorly implemented in V2 (like a lot of other things), not that there's something inherently wrong with them.
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May 24, 2021 19:44
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We can leave Parties to the expansion a few expansions from now, the one where you can pay $30 to experience "Coalition Government Simulator" and have fun with:
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May 24, 2021 19:45
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I like having specific party names so I like parties but I do think interest groups are more interesting, so as long as interest groups aren't depreciated for parties I am fine. Plus you might be able to get things like an interest group jumping ship from backing one party to backing another party, which would be interesting emergent storytelling.
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May 24, 2021 19:46
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DrSunshine posted:We can leave Parties to the expansion a few expansions from now, the one where you can pay $30 to experience "Coalition Government Simulator" and have fun with: Yeah party politics feel like an expansion mechanic that belongs with other things fleshing out parliamentary politics in the democracies rather than a core pillar of the game
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May 24, 2021 19:46
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DrSunshine posted:We can leave Parties to the expansion a few expansions from now, the one where you can pay $30 to experience "Coalition Government Simulator" and have fun with: A video game that lets you essentially play as Lincoln trying to wrangle votes for the Abolition amendment would be pretty dope.
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May 24, 2021 19:51
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Super Jay Mann posted:Parties should be what they are in real life (in theory anyway...): a confluence of disparate but otherwise in-agreement interest groups that choose to be represented collectively. Let the parties form organically based on what interest groups want, don't have parties that just exist and so happen to appeal to enough interest groups to get into power. This is my position. Go all in on them or wait and implement it in an expansion with it as the focus alongside other parliamentary poo poo. Doing it half assed just results in the vicky 2 problem of parties being this static unchanging thing that makes no sense based on their "ideology". Obviously the wishlist would be interest groups coming together to form a party to get elected and get in power to get their agenda passed. Maybe they don't all agree but they agree enough on these issues to give ground and further what they really care about. Bonus points if you can have a party based around abolishing/promoting one issue that's spicy enough to get a lot of people invested from disparate interest groups that would die after the issue is abetted - like slavery. More bonus points if you have parties change over time - like how the democrats were the party of the south and rural areas and then the Republicans became that party.
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May 24, 2021 20:04
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Don't blame me, I voted for the intelligentsia.
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May 24, 2021 20:27
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Party politics is pretty enormously important in the history of this period, as the actual interface between social 'interest groups' and government policy. I'm not really worried that they'll do a better and more dynamic job of it than Vic2 does.
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May 24, 2021 20:50
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This game made me want to try out vic2 so now I’m learning as Russia not to gently caress with German Empire regardless of what Italy and France say. Is Japan fun? Japan seems like it would be fun to just gently caress up china.
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May 24, 2021 20:53
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Japan is very fun and chill, it's full sandbox mode
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May 24, 2021 20:55
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Randarkman posted:I'm not really a fan of the end date being as late as 1936 to be honest. The world before and after WW1 is just too different and the Victoria games were never good at actually simulating WW1 or its aftermath. Eh I don't know. My most memorable Vicky 2 campaign had a very realistic WW1 where the whole world got involved and every country got bled white and at the end no one really felt like they won anything. I recall losing something like 10 million soldier pops in a single multi-year battle in the Carpathian mountains.
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May 24, 2021 20:58
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ThatBasqueGuy posted:Japan is very fun and chill, it's full sandbox mode Are you hosed if you get sphered? All of my money as Russia came from tariffs. How do you not get sphered?
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May 24, 2021 20:59
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Are you hosed if you get sphered? All of my money as Russia came from tariffs. How do you not get sphered? Become a great power yourself. There's some growing pains as Japan but you can easily get there after some minor industrializing.
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May 24, 2021 21:03
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SnoochtotheNooch posted:Are you hosed if you get sphered? All of my money as Russia came from tariffs. How do you not get sphered? Japan is hard to sphere because they have high pop. They also have a bunch of decent to good rgos that should print enough money to float you until you civilize and break into GP status. But no, not really being sphered for a lil as Japan is fine
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May 24, 2021 21:04
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Doesn't getting sphered as Japan mean you can early westernise? I'll say it's well worth it.
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May 24, 2021 21:22
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It's been a minute but there's two ways to westernize via décision in Vicky 2 as Japan. One of them is getting spheres by the US but you need to wait until the 1860's. Or you can use the points you get from conquering Korea to westernize earlier at the cost of increased militancy. Personally I'd go for the earliest westernization. It'll give you more time to gently caress around in the east before the euromericans move in. And conquering Korea Is a no brainer. High literacy, population, and good resources.
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May 24, 2021 21:28
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Japan is one of my favorite countries to play in V2 for how wide open of a sandbox it is. Once you modernize, the Asian-Pacific world is your oyster. There are lots of weak uncivs with good resources to bully (the coal and iron in Korea and Manchuria being particularly tempting targets), Spain and the Netherlands' colonies in Asia are easy pickings, and the sheer distance between you and Europe plus bad naval AI means a modernized Japan can punch way above its weight against other great powers.
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May 24, 2021 21:30
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I'm deciding whether or not to start V2 up again and it got me thinking about the UK in the early and mid-game. Was it ever truly brutal to fight? I remember always trying my best to avoid war with them but I can't really remember how challenging they were to fight. It would kinda be cool to have this huge and terrifying menace early game you have to avoid at all costs for a while.
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May 24, 2021 21:37
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Depends on what country you are, any decent GP at start should be able to take them (at least to a limited degree) so that it's more obnoxious to fight them than life threatening
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May 24, 2021 21:44
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I definitely fought the UK multiple times in my GP Mexico and Texas games. They could be pretty tough ...if the AI got mass troops to your shores. Japan, Texas, and Mexico are my favorite playthroughs. Texas needs some serious luck early....but playing a brutally repressive bunch of Yahoos conquering the world was a blast.
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May 24, 2021 21:48
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I work in non-game development, but I wonder what user stories look like in a game like Victoria. "As a slave pop, I would like to be able to kill my master pop and overthrow the government. Please fix ASAP, this is affecting production!"
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May 24, 2021 21:51
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Yeah I would personally try and avoid confronting the UK at gane start. You can beat them by virtue of the ai being braindead and then having people scattered all over the globe. But the opportunity cost is usually too high when you could be beating up uncivs or secondaries for equal or greater rewards. Vicky is however the one game where they're a good ally. Getting them as am ally and using them to batter your enemies is fantastic
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May 24, 2021 21:58
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Dr. Arbitrary posted:I work in non-game development, but I wonder what user stories look like in a game like Victoria. Dr. Arbitrary posted:What if John Brown had succeeded.
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May 24, 2021 21:59
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Gaius Marius posted:Yeah I would personally try and avoid confronting the UK at gane start. You can beat them by virtue of the ai being braindead and then having people scattered all over the globe. But the opportunity cost is usually too high when you could be beating up uncivs or secondaries for equal or greater rewards. Also, yeah...I want to see John Brown's Appalachian Republic of Freedmen raiding plantations throughout the South.
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May 24, 2021 22:09
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