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Dik Hz posted:Depends on the company. In most places they're arbitrarily forced into a normal distribution. Do you think that this is a sufficient reason to look for other jobs? I'm seriously considering it. There is a pattern to my performance reviews which I will mention: the first year (this is 3 years ago) I received the top rating. That year I worked on the biggest project/program at the company, in a not very interesting (IMO), less technically challenging, more group oriented position. I actually received quite a bit of negative feedback from most of the people I worked with in that role (one guy in an after-work dinner, asked the department manager for me to be replaced in front of my face). The next two years, I got to work a couple of jobs, which were more individual contributor roles, and were more about technical analysis. I really enjoyed the work, and learned a lot of great technical skills and received a lot of positive feedback from the people I worked with. But these were for smaller-time projects and programs within the company which were less important to the company's economic well-being. Also this kind of work is often outsourced by the company I work for due to my company maybe being technically weak in this sub-area and/or other companies having a comparative advantage for other reasons. I have a feeling that this is a big part of the reason why I didn't get as great performance reviews the last two years. It is really disappointing, because I largely enjoyed the work I performed the last two years, and these performance reviews are kind of signaling to me that the company doesn't value this kind of work very much. I don't know if this is just the case at my company, or if it is an industry-wide trend, but I guess I can't really know for sure exactly without seeing what it is like at other places. silence_kit fucked around with this message at 20:54 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 20:18
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asur posted:If your manager can't give you a concrete plan on how to achieve a better rating or a definitive way to get promoted, which I assume is the actual goal, then you should leave as they are giving you a clear signal that it isn't going to happen and they don't care about your career progression. If you actually like the place you work then I would recommend you directly ask for what you specifically want and the steps to achieve it before leaving, as again I assume that a better rating isn't actually your goal. To be fair, my manager is new and has only been my manager for half a year now, and I think this is the first time they have been in a managerial role. And shame on me, I didn't ask for a justification or areas to improve upon for the lower rating/lower raise last year with my previous manager. The excuse I will give to you all on this internet forum is that I was distracted by COVID and the economic crash. Yeah, I'm thinking only having 'other people performed better' as the only justification for my performance review rating, at the very least signals that there isn't a lot of opportunity at this company.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:34
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silence_kit posted:Do you think that this is a sufficient reason to look for other jobs? I'm seriously considering it. This might sound bitter, but always be looking. Maybe not "every hour of your spare time" intensity, but always keep an eye out for something else. Not completely happy with current job? Before you're burned out and hating life is a great time to start looking! Are pretty happy with current job? Maybe there's some things you think of as normal that would be better somewhere else. At your literal dream job? What if something happens and you need to suddenly figure out where to look for a replacement? Have your "this is what will make me jump today" list in mind - doesn't have to be compensation, but just sort of an idea what would improve your life. Have some idea how much of that you want to see. Nothing less stressful than interviewing for a job where you don't need it yet and they need to prove to you that their job is worth taking.
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Mar 14, 2021 20:42
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silence_kit posted:Does anybody have advice on how to deal with a disappointing job performance review? Dik Hz posted:Depends on the company. In most places they're arbitrarily forced into a normal distribution. This asur posted:If your manager can't give you a concrete plan on how to achieve a better rating or a definitive way to get promoted, which I assume is the actual goal, then you should leave and this Find a new job with a pay raise. Also theres some situations where youre first on the chopping block. You mentioned later that you're working projects that are less critical to the company. Based on candid conversations with some of my former managers at a big defense co, its not uncommon for those "nice to win but not critical" programs to get pushed to the middle of the distribution. Its my observation, though not from first hand experience, if paying your salary returns 10+x in revenue or 5+x in cost avoidance for the company, youll prob get a good rating at most companies. If it isn't as clear then theres a bunch of grey area. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 22:06 on Mar 14, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 22:04
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Yeah, I'm really considering applying for jobs when COVID gets more under control. When I am interviewing and it is asked 'why are you considering leaving your position at your previous company?' what is the best way to answer that question in my case? Obviously you don't want to answer the question in a way which makes you sound like a disgruntled employee which would call into question your capability. Even if there might be some truth to it : ) silence_kit fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Mar 15, 2021 |
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Mar 14, 2021 23:37
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silence_kit posted:To be fair, my manager is new and has only been my manager for half a year now, and I think this is the first time they have been in a managerial role. And shame on me, I didn't ask for a justification or areas to improve upon for the lower rating/lower raise last year with my previous manager. The excuse I will give to you all on this internet forum is that I was distracted by COVID and the economic crash. It sounds like you want to leave anyway, but if you want to attempt to salvage this then you should tell your manager you want to talk about concrete steps to achieve your goals, again assuming promotion but sub in whatever if not. Don't ever say anything bad, implied or explicitly, about your old company. Just state something along the lines of looking for interesting work, new opportunities, new challenges, and/or career growth and then give a reason the new company and position fits that.
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Mar 15, 2021 02:14
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The best way to get a good eval is to become invaluable and/or underpaid. Learn the skill that no one else has and/or take the important role that no one else wants. Otherwise the best you can do is above average unless you’re willing to play politics (dont play politics).
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Mar 15, 2021 02:20
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asur posted:Also comparing against peers is loving trash and a sign of a bad manager and company. The standard for your role should be set, and hopefully clear, and if everyone over performs people shouldn't be punished because they didn't meet some moving bar. Even in the case where this happens, if your manager won't give you feedback on how to get a better rating then it means they are prioritizing other people over you and you should leave. Your manager should be setting clear goals, assigning resources to allow completion of goals, and providing regular feedback as a baseline. Whether it happens in the yearly performance review is largely immaterial in the grand scheme.
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Mar 15, 2021 13:30
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Should I take it as a bad sign that I have never gotten higher than "on target" in a review across any of my three jobs? I assume it means that I do good enough work without selling out for those 45-50 hour work weeks they love to see, but now I am questioning it after all this chatter in here about it.
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Mar 15, 2021 17:32
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Gin_Rummy posted:Should I take it as a bad sign that I have never gotten higher than "on target" in a review across any of my three jobs? I assume it means that I do good enough work without selling out for those 45-50 hour work weeks they love to see, but now I am questioning it after all this chatter in here about it. Unfortunately, it depends on your manager. Lots of them won't list you as better than average unless you really go above and beyond, others will list you as outstanding as long as you didn't have any major screw-ups If I'm working 5-10 hours I don't bill a week though I'd drat well expect to see "exceeds expectations" at the very least.
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Mar 15, 2021 20:05
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Not a Children posted:Unfortunately, it depends on your manager. Lots of them won't list you as better than average unless you really go above and beyond, others will list you as outstanding as long as you didn't have any major screw-ups I know it is definitely an issue with my current boss. All he does is talk about overtime. If you're working overtime in his group, consider yourself Miles Davis. The only people to get a promotion in the time that I have any insight into are the ones who have no problem working those long hours.
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Mar 15, 2021 20:13
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By definition, overtime is time you spend above and beyond your actual work requirements. Dunno if that's the kind of conversation you can safely have with your manager though. If overtime is part of your employer's culture there's not much you can do about it. If you're getting paid for the extra time and you're content with that, no big deal. If you're working for free and/or want to limit it to 40, you've either got to have a confrontational conversation or start lookin.
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Mar 15, 2021 20:40
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Gin_Rummy posted:I know it is definitely an issue with my current boss. All he does is talk about overtime. If you're working overtime in his group, consider yourself Miles Davis. The only people to get a promotion in the time that I have any insight into are the ones who have no problem working those long hours. I miss my old boss. The owners of the company switched the engineers from hourly to salary and expected at least 45 hours/week without a corresponding pay raise, but our boss knew that was bullshit and let us take time off if we worked over 40.
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Mar 15, 2021 21:30
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Not a Children posted:By definition, overtime is time you spend above and beyond your actual work requirements. Dunno if that's the kind of conversation you can safely have with your manager though. My manager is the kind of person who will pick me apart for saying "this thing is roughly a quarter of an inch" vs "this thing is .2567 inches," so I'm gonna say that is probably not the kind of conversation I can have with him. But to actually speak to your point, it is definitely just this (part of the) company's culture. They do pay out OT (when the pandemic isn't making GBS threads on the rest of the business) and I'll take it when I need to, but I didn't realize until a coworker got promoted this year that it really had any factor into your grading so long as you got your work done. A very clear message has been sent that if you want to move up, you have to sell your soul. And that is why my resume has been polished and ready to go for some time now...
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Mar 16, 2021 00:55
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Had a bit of an epiphany this morning re: consulting that has given me the ability to positively reframe my work role and how I view my job. It comes after watching and working a couple of projects where people on the client's end who had no business touching the project coming in at the 11th hour and "just asking questions" or having to insert their own bullshit into a nearly-finished project. Sure, am I doing my time in the trenches sitting behind a solidworks license designing widgets like I thought I'd be doing after college? No. Am I kinda losing touch with how to figure out a Rankine cycle or like, all of dynamics? Yes. Could this come back at some point to bite me in the rear end? Also yes. I kinda like that we get hired because poo poo has gone squirrelly and someone needs to fix it. Your facility has no P&IDs that aren't on vellum and you need to design a new process? No problem, happy to help. You have been out of compliance with federal regulations for a year and if you don't get your poo poo together in a month you're getting shut down? Sign here, please. Maybe it's the sector but I don't feel like we're ever used as a scapegoat because we have so many repeat clients. The larger firms reject so much good work, and our size let's us be agile and not wrapped up in paralysis by analysis or meeting hell. I like the freedom of only having to give a poo poo about what you pay me to give a poo poo about. Cost too high? Sure I'll lower those for you, but if I reduce your cost by 50% then my clarifications, assumptions, and exclusions list is going to at least double. Yeah, working for a lovely client sucks. Working for a deadbeat client sucks. Getting invested in a cool project and having it get shelved sucks. In my short experience I've only had two or three actually lovely clients. When they come knocking again we just say thanks but no thanks and move on. If a deadbeat client comes back, fine. Pay your balance and we're going to need 50% up front. I've had this happen exactly once, lol. They typically stop asking then it's back to collections for you. So I dunno, maybe this is the career equivalent of a brain flooding itself with dopamine and serotonin right before death, but it makes it seem not so bad.
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Mar 26, 2021 18:43
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Yikes I took a big old poo poo on this thread, lol. Here's a question that someone might have an answer to. Does anybody have any experience going from a more "mechanical" skill set into programming/coding/automation as an ME? Had a discussion about this with some computer-toucher friends and I feel like this might be a skill I can learn and foster on my own/for fun. My programming classes in school were almost exclusively VBA for Excel, with the exception of my mechatronics class which was Arduino-based 😩. I always see a ton of jobs open for automation engineers and it feels like I'm ignoring a huge potential skill set. If there is already a thread for this ild be happy to take my question there.
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Apr 14, 2021 21:22
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I went chemical engineering to business intelligence analyst and then developer. Feels like there's way more opportunities here than automation because I'm not dependent on any one industry. Sales, operations, corporate finance, etc. are the same regardless of what the company does. Makes it real easy to jump out of cyclical or downtrend industries too.
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Apr 14, 2021 21:31
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Target Practice posted:Yikes I took a big old poo poo on this thread, lol. Automation is cool and good and fun and demand for controls engineers is ever-present. I've seen MEs make the jump. Usually they're plant engineers who got roped in to working on simple automation projects on the side. Lots of people in this industry have worked their way up from electrician/technician roles, so with some experience you'd be head and shoulders above them since you already have the engineering background. The industry is still mostly dumb enough where you don't need a software background to succeed. Frankly having a mechanical background is helpful because you have a better idea of the physical system can do, which is critical to making a robust program that won't break things. That said, more complicated equipment definitely benefits from solid software engineering. You have to shoehorn it in sometimes, because PLCs are generally NOT built to support that, but having background in those concepts will certainly make life easier. I can't say I've vetted this, but the reddit PLC sub has the following thread stickied: https://www.reddit.com/r/PLC/comments/lsa8rc/read_first_how_to_learn_plcs_and_get_into_the/ I started my career in this industry, and kind of fell in to it as my first job, so I don't have a good outsider perspective. The only downsides are finding jobs where you don't have to travel a bunch. If you do, they're usually plant jobs where you're on call and need to come in at 3am because the 3rd shift maintenance person did something stupid and shut down the line.
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Apr 14, 2021 21:58
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Target Practice posted:Yikes I took a big old poo poo on this thread, lol. I've moved on from my engineering role at my current company to being a full time software developer at the same company, just in a different organization. My path was to doing a lot of self-studying on my time off to learn Python and other CS related concepts (algorithms/data structures, databases, etc.) and there was a job opening in my pervious org that sounded good on paper where I'd be doing 50/50 engineering stuff and development work but ended up being not great since it was loads of VBA maintenance. But due to the pandemic and restructuring that was going on, my previous boss identified me as being a good fit for the current team that I'm on which I like way better. Ideally you can find a role that incorporates your current skills plus doing some software dev at your current company to give you a way pivot. Once you learn those skills hopefully that leads you to more of the opportunities that you'd want.
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Apr 14, 2021 23:56
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DaveSauce posted:Automation is cool and good and fun and demand for controls engineers is ever-present. I'm a controls engineer who has worked with several MEs who moved over to controls over the years. Usually it's something that sort of as a need for programming arises and they end up picking it up on the job. Don't know what kind of courses would be helpful. I have an EE degree, but never did anything controls/PLC specific in school I just sort of fell into a job that taught me how. It's a great niche to find yourself in, I've never had a hard time finding a job since I got into controls. Travel can vary a lot from company to company, but it's definitely possible to find jobs without a lot of travel. I've only done 3 longer out of state trips (only one requiring flight) in ~8 years across 5 different companies (I've been laid off a lot...). Lots of local travel (less than an hour drive). I've never been on call to respond to any issues out of office hours. About to start a new job that promised no more than 2 weeks on the road a year.
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Apr 15, 2021 18:39
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dxt posted:I'm a controls engineer who has worked with several MEs who moved over to controls over the years. Usually it's something that sort of as a need for programming arises and they end up picking it up on the job. Don't know what kind of courses would be helpful. I have an EE degree, but never did anything controls/PLC specific in school I just sort of fell into a job that taught me how. It's a great niche to find yourself in, I've never had a hard time finding a job since I got into controls. Travel can vary a lot from company to company, but it's definitely possible to find jobs without a lot of travel. I've only done 3 longer out of state trips (only one requiring flight) in ~8 years across 5 different companies (I've been laid off a lot...). Lots of local travel (less than an hour drive). I've never been on call to respond to any issues out of office hours. About to start a new job that promised no more than 2 weeks on the road a year. Yeah, unfortunately I only have insider experience. But I have seen lots of outsiders transition in to controls, so I wanted to make sure it was a known path to it. MEs I've come across are usually in discrete/assembly sort of automation, and chem Eng in process stuff (wastewater, chemical, pharma, etc.). My background is Comp Eng and EE, so this industry is almost a perfect fit for me. Been doing it 13+ years now at... 4 companies. Tried to get in to embedded once, because that's where I always thought I wanted to end up, but I got sucked back in to controls (because I sucked at embedded). Honestly not all that different, though, so works for me. Last company was a lot of custom machines for automotive, which usually means a shitload of travel, but I got lucky in that most of my travel was local, with maybe 4-6 weeks/year on the road. Currently at a food/bev machine OEM on easy street. Good pay, very very low travel... been 2.5 years now and haven't gone anywhere. I mean, COVID played a big part, and I definitely should have gone places by now, but we do a lot of in-house testing so travel for controls is limited. Mostly the MEs travel with the machines. Very complex machines at this place, though, so it's not a brainless job by any means. First company was a machine OEM, but the systems were dead simple and mostly copy/paste, so it was a great entry level job. High turnover, because the president was a douche and so were his idiot kids who were VPs. Well, 1 was an idiot and a douche, the other was mostly OK. Horribly toxic environment, most people only lasted 2-3 years.
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Apr 16, 2021 01:44
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Target Practice posted:Had a bit of an epiphany this morning re: consulting I was in consulting for 13 years or so, it was always the internal stuff that gave me more grief than clients. I worked under a few consulting managers that were full blown sociopaths. Always giving unrealistic ideas about our capabilities, agreeing to unrealistic estimated costs/delivery times, interpreting the deliverables in the agreements very loosely so they could invoice ahead of time for their own numbers, etc. These things all got worse when there was a downturn and there was less chargeable work going on. Variety of work was great though.
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May 4, 2021 05:10
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Hopefully not too much of a long shot, but is anyone here in product/test development engineering at semiconductor companies? Or more generally in post-silicon validation? I'm at a semiconductor company moving into product development engineering from process engineering. My degree was in ChemE so this is more of a CompE/EE space I'm going into, and so I don't know many people from school who went that direction. Just trying to get an idea of what to look out for in this new field I'm moving into, hopefully more objectively than I've heard internally too (my company is pretty notorious for its lifers).
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May 5, 2021 05:48
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cerious posted:Hopefully not too much of a long shot, but is anyone here in product/test development engineering at semiconductor companies? Or more generally in post-silicon validation? I'm at a semiconductor company moving into product development engineering from process engineering. My degree was in ChemE so this is more of a CompE/EE space I'm going into, and so I don't know many people from school who went that direction. Just trying to get an idea of what to look out for in this new field I'm moving into, hopefully more objectively than I've heard internally too (my company is pretty notorious for its lifers). Hey that’s pretty much my career for the past while (it’s been THAT long?? Yikes) I’m phone posting now and can do more of an effort post tonite, any specific questions? I personally love it because there are so many different things to do, everything from hardware design, fpgas, embedded firmware, thermal testing, system design, scripting for automation, documentation (lol) and the like. Some people who don’t like it usually find they prefer to become an expert in one thing rather than a jack of all trades, and that’s fine. There’s a lot of interaction with other internal groups especially process engineering, firmware/software, applications, device emulation and product design. They do not let us interface directly with customers but a lot of what we do gets filtered through applications to the customers. Basically we think of ourselves as an internal customer to try to think up what weird poo poo customers are going to try with our parts and break them so we can fix or errata them proactively  This went on for longer than I had planned on my phone! Probably because I’m stuck in a boring conference call..
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May 5, 2021 18:38
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Awesome, yeah I can pm some more specifics too but I'll put some in this thread for other folks too. I'm only on my first job out of school, working on a manufacturing floor with a bunch of ATEs at a large semiconductor company. My new role is going to be working on the test programs that run on the same equipment I used to own, so definitely a move from tool maintenance to content ownership and development. I mainly got the job because I work on the tools that run these test programs, so I've got a grip on the hardware in a high volume manufacturing setting already, and I've worked on debug with those groups before as well. If you look at my post history in this thread, I've successfully ended up in semiconductors, but I landed adjacent to the fab instead. That worked out far nicer since the work/life balance in the fab is terrible, a lot of my friends in that area have burnt out, and the career prospects for technical folks in the fab seems limited geographically (my friends who have gotten out have had to move into product management or data science... working more on the vendor side instead). Being pigeon-holed like that was one of my main concerns with being in a manufacturing job, so that made the decision to move into a PDE role easier. I actually like where I live now, but I'm from CA and it'd be nice to go back there. The big semiconductor places in CA are fabless, and that's the direction the majority of the industry is going anyways, so it made sense to me to move to a role that could get me into those places instead. So I suppose my main questions are about career prospects for PDEs in other semiconductor companies, especially the fabless ones. I'm trying to get an idea of responsibilities at smaller places too, since my place is massive and the products themselves are huge and have teams of people for each piece of test program content. I was also wondering about how much my manufacturing experience would count for at these places that don't own the manufacturing themselves. I know it's something that comes up, but I don't know how much my manufacturing experience outweighs an actual CompE/EE background, since I've taken a less traditional path to get to my new role.
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May 5, 2021 21:12
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Any good ideas for a sideways promotion out of MEP for a PE? I got a friend who is burned out on 60 hr weeks and the endless train of developers asking for crazy things. She's a little over 50 and worried about never being able to get hired somewhere else if she quits.
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May 24, 2021 18:41
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Vaporware posted:Any good ideas for a sideways promotion out of MEP for a PE? Getting past the ageism/sexism that she'll face, I feel like an MEP is a good candidate for Electrical and Instrumentation and Control for wastewater/drinking water infrastructure applications. We always need those people, and MEP sets you up somewhat for it I feel. This is assuming she wants to stay in engineering but get the hell away from the private sector.
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May 24, 2021 19:20
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Vaporware posted:Any good ideas for a sideways promotion out of MEP for a PE? GordonComstock posted:Getting past the ageism/sexism that she'll face, I feel like an MEP is a good candidate for Electrical and Instrumentation and Control for wastewater/drinking water infrastructure applications. We always need those people, and MEP sets you up somewhat for it I feel. This is assuming she wants to stay in engineering but get the hell away from the private sector. Speaking to this, I actually have an open position available if they're well equipped for electrical/instrumentation, particularly in wastewater. Great benefits and I very rarely work over 40. PM me if that's something they could handle.
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May 25, 2021 01:26
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GordonComstock posted:Getting past the ageism/sexism that she'll face, I feel like an MEP is a good candidate for Electrical and Instrumentation and Control for wastewater/drinking water infrastructure applications. We always need those people, and MEP sets you up somewhat for it I feel. This is assuming she wants to stay in engineering but get the hell away from the private sector. That's kind of what I'm reading into the deal. Govt would be good for slowing the pace. Yeah ageism and sexism in hiring sucks but she's already deep into it. The pervasive sexism on construction sites, having to travel with a male coworker to make sure she's got backup when the contractor is called out about shoddy workmanship. It's grinding, from the stories I get. Trapped in a high volume cycle is the primary problem and never getting anything exciting or really do anything other hotel X multiuse Y. And with the market absolutely burning down, the pace has only picked up and it's impossible to get the work done on every project every week. Not a Children posted:Speaking to this, I actually have an open position available if they're well equipped for electrical/instrumentation, particularly in wastewater. Great benefits and I very rarely work over 40. PM me if that's something they could handle. I'll ask, but she's been Mech/HVAC for 95% of the time. I personally think she's probably well versed enough in codes and how projects run that she could adapt, but I'm a MechE who ended up in automation, I feel like adapting is the only skill I have, so I could be projecting. Edit NM she says she did wastewater a bunch 10 years ago. So I was right, but mostly by accident. Vaporware fucked around with this message at 02:49 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 02:40
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I know a lot of nomadic engineers in their 50s that just work contract to contract, ageism seems to be less of a thing when it's 6-12 month at a time. To a man they're openly bitter about life and divorced.
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May 25, 2021 04:19
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After how many years in a more traditional engineering discipline (electrical, civil, mechanical, etc) would you all say you should be at a “senior engineer” level position? I know it’s pretty arbitrary and company-by-company, but I’m sitting here at like 8 years and my company still has me pegged as a level two and it’s got me feeling pretty down lately. Also yes, before anyone says anything, I have been actively looking for something new for awhile now.
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Jun 15, 2021 00:00
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Gin_Rummy posted:After how many years in a more traditional engineering discipline (electrical, civil, mechanical, etc) would you all say you should be at a “senior engineer” level position? I know it’s pretty arbitrary and company-by-company, but I’m sitting here at like 8 years and my company still has me pegged as a level two and it’s got me feeling pretty down lately. To get ahead of that timeline, you have to go to operations management which can realistically shave up to two years off of your promo schedule, again only if you are a high performer and if the cards fall right for you. Either that or hire in as a level three with 8-10 years experience in the applicable field.
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Jun 15, 2021 02:35
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If you have your PE and run your own projects you should probably be a senior engineer. It depends a lot though. A consulting firm will move you up as fast as they can so you bill at a higher rate. I would say most people make senior where I am at between 6-10 years.
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Jun 15, 2021 05:15
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spwrozek posted:If you have your PE and run your own projects you should probably be a senior engineer. It depends a lot though. A consulting firm will move you up as fast as they can so you bill at a higher rate. I would say most people make senior where I am at between 6-10 years. Otherwise, it's entirely at the whim of management as to whether it's good to have good cheap labor or a high-billing expert.
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Jun 15, 2021 06:55
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lmao Been doing this for 13 years, and pretty much any place I worked, there's "engineer" and "senior engineer." With the "senior" being the oldest non-management engineer and usually had 20+ years. Sometimes there's "associate engineer" for technicians who worked their way up to an engineering position without a degree. Guess this is how it goes working for small/mid sized companies. The biggest place I worked had ranks before I started there, with engineer, staff, senior, and chief. But that was pretty much forgotten about when I started, and then 2 years in they reorganized the department in to teams and the grades disappeared, it was all "engineer" except for team leads. There was a Chief Engineer as well, but just 1 person, and the position was equal with the supervisor on the org chart but with no direct reports (engineer -> team lead -> supervisor -> director of eng -> VP of operations). For reference, I'm in industrial controls/automation (mostly electrical eng, some comp eng and even fewer comp sci). All the mechanical engineering departments at these companies worked the same way, though. All that said, trolling through LinkedIn jobs it looks like most places hiring "Senior Controls Engineers" positions are asking for 5+ years. Seems a bit early to be calling someone a senior engineer, but per above my experience is biased to the longer end. If I had to make something up, I'd expect "senior" to be 8-10 years minimum. DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 12:51 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 12:05
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We have Engineer, Staff Engineer, Senior Engineer, Principal Engineer -> Engineering Manager, Director of Engineering for some context.
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Jun 15, 2021 14:49
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My last job had engineer 1, 2, 3, and then staff engineer 1, 2, 3, then project engineer 1, 2, 3, and then senior engineer, and then I think principal is the highest owner-level echelon. Staff usually was "has their own projects", project is PE, senior was SME. I mean that was the theory, but land a big contract and you'll jump up no matter how good or (more commonly) bad an engineer you were. And they changed up how the ranks went, sometimes condensing and sometimes expanding. I was a staff I twice, separated by 3 years. I'm convinced they did it to hold people down, avoid raises. Just shuffle things, give a COLA, call it good.
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Jun 15, 2021 15:13
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For reference, senior engineer at my company is basically the equivalent of eng 3. I haven't been here for my whole career, but if you count my previous jobs, I have been an eng 2 for six-ish years now... we also have multiple people on my team the same age or younger who are seniors.
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Jun 15, 2021 15:23
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Gin_Rummy posted:For reference, senior engineer at my company is basically the equivalent of eng 3. I haven't been here for my whole career, but if you count my previous jobs, I have been an eng 2 for six-ish years now... we also have multiple people on my team the same age or younger who are seniors. Yeah, it's a private company, not the military or govt. You're not guaranteed periodic raises. Might be you haven't done something specific that owners like. Sales and rear end-kissing are two common options.
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Jun 15, 2021 15:35
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The problem with having that fine a granularity is, at best, it's utterly useless if you don't strictly enforce it. At worst, you get in to situations like this where people get upset about job titles that are functionally meaningless. There needs to be a specific written description of the roles/responsibilities (and they need to be different or else what's the point), as well as the expected skills/traits that a person needs to consistently demonstrate to earn a promotion. When used like that, you have an effective tool to balance your organizations resource requirements, enforce pay equality across groups/sites, and provide clear career development/progression goals. Otherwise you're just making poo poo up and giving people titles to keep them from quitting hint: it's this one edit: so there's an unintentional point that's probably more important than anything anyone here can say: What does YOUR company say a "senior engineer" is? Is there a written job description somewhere? Do you meet the requirements? That's where you should start, but honestly it doesn't seem to matter. Either it exists and isn't being used, or it doesn't exist and everything's just made up. Third option, it DOES exist and you're way behind. But if that were the case, you should already know precisely why you aren't there yet. If you don't know why you're not advancing, then your management is doing a pretty bad job at managing. DaveSauce fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Jun 15, 2021 |
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Jun 15, 2021 15:40
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