Talking about the adaptations we do have just kinda hammers home how good the Golden Age Arc writing and character development is. This prb will never be a live action thing, but if it were done at a S1-4 GoT level, the payoff at the end for those that didn't know what they were getting into would be AMAZING. The trilogy movies were very good about that, the 97 TV series was. Thinking about that, it's not at all surprising its the most adapted portion of the story. Also please never do a live action adaptation. e: since i sniped the page LoneStar, howd the sky of faces turn out for you?
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# ? May 24, 2021 21:15 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:52 |
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TheLoneStar posted:And now the landscape and sky is faces. Really didn't expect that. Lol
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# ? May 24, 2021 21:37 |
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The Notorious ZSB posted:e: since i sniped the page LoneStar, howd the sky of faces turn out for you? But really, things went to Hell so drat fast. Literally and figurately. Everyone's loving dead pretty much except for Rickert and Casca. Just saw Pippin hollowed out like a shell (from a monster strangely similar to The Count) and Gaston broke the fourth wall. Saw God or some version of it which was horrifying. I really had no idea things got so loving crazy and chaotic, with Hell literally breaking loose upon the world right then and there, Griffith actively sacrificing all his friends and comrades for power. I knew it was so foreboding that we never really saw much of his inner thoughts. Makes me wonder at what point he went this crazy.
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# ? May 24, 2021 21:38 |
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He was always that crazy, but his breaking point was when Guts beat him in a duel and he had to face the reality that he wasn't in absolute control of the world around him.
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# ? May 24, 2021 21:53 |
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Reserving the next 3 pages for the incoming "Griffith did nothing wrong" talk
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# ? May 24, 2021 21:55 |
TheLoneStar posted:Well, I dunno about the ones in the sky, but one in the ground turned into a giant naked lady, so that's all good. Thats another very good quote for posterity. To the bolded thought... I'd encourage you to revisit the black swordsman chapters after you finish the eclipse...
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# ? May 24, 2021 21:58 |
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mind the walrus posted:He was always that crazy, but his breaking point was when Guts beat him in a duel and he had to face the reality that he wasn't in absolute control of the world around him. The Notorious ZSB posted:Thats another very good quote for posterity. Was there a hint that they had met before when he saw him in the earlier chapters? I don't recall. Thinking of it, The Count was a monster for a while, wasn't he? I don't know how long the timeskip between The Golden Age and the present is, though. Also, I did also notice that the seduction monster from the first few pages of the manga appeared to devour Corkus.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:03 |
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These have been a couple of funny pages. Almost enough to break through the tears. Just made me think that when I reread it here in the next few weeks I'm going to do Black Swordsman, Golden Age, the interlude, then Black Swordsman again before lost children. Consider the chronology. Theresia makes Guts cry, then Lost children...
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:05 |
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Also, read this after you get to Guts declaration of war- you'll know *exactly* what that means when you get to it- The way the world works, magic is always teeming just beneath the surface of Berserk-world. Its a separate layer of reality. Certain things can make those realities mix together, such as the stones, certain trees, grave enough atrocities, so on and so forth. More physical spirits like elves are able to exist in the real world by crossing into it from those points. Same for demons, especially Apostles. Guts basically becomes a walking nexus point after the Eclipse due to his Brand. The spirits too weak to normally crossover actively can around him, notably at night. So things that people go their whole lives without ever being aware of are now able to make themselves known due to his presence. Apostles also mostly hosed off to wherever the hell they could since they're not creatures that would do well in groups. Two Apostles in one location means that there's two top tier predators competing for the same food source. The Snake Baron was a roving warlord until he settled down, the Count had his whole area already secured, and you'll see more examples soon. The Dog Knights and Zod were known as mythical figures on the battlefield, but the average person wouldn't believe half of the bullshit said about them. Guts actively seeks them out following the Eclipse, which raises the awareness that they even EXIST for whoever survives. Which isn't many.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:05 |
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TheLoneStar posted:I guess I hadn't realized that had driven him so insane. Figuratively and literally, "his sword was broken". Not only could he not recover Guts, he couldn't even participate in battle. That "arm" had been removed. What was left was his boyish looks or tactical skill. And with the queen gone, who really cares about a daughter they'll probably high-five me!
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:13 |
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Burkion posted:Also, read this after you get to Guts declaration of war- you'll know *exactly* what that means when you get to it- PhantomOfTheCopier posted:He immediately responds by raping Charlotte. He didn't beat up Corkus, didn't send Casca through some torturous training, didn't find some enemies to go hack to bits, didn't bother to find someone else in power to assassinate. He went with the easiest, most direct solution. Lowest cost, greatest reward (greatest risk).
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:16 |
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I know it's probably beaten to death but I really do wonder how things would have played out if there was just a little bit of actual goddamn communication between those idiots. It wouldn't even have to be much. Just as he's walking away, for Guts to drop a quick thing about doing it to be a true friend who can stand on his own or whatnot.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:17 |
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TheLoneStar posted:So, what this means is that monsters aren't around every corner, except when Guts is around they come out to play more often? I had just been under the impression that after the Eclipse, it was basically like an invasion, where any trip through the woods or a lonely dirt path could make you run into all sorts of demons and creatures. For the first, nope. Its due to Guts himself. There are monsters that lurk, but they're rare and mostly Apostle related. The spirits and horrible nasties that plague Guts can only manifest because of his brand. Apostles are, to a one, humans who forsake their humanity for power, so they escape this separation by nature but they're still isolated- unless something like the Eclipse happens. As you'll see when/if you go back to the early chapters, all of the Apostles from there can be found in the Eclipse and they are the same people. Guts was basically avenging the Band of the Hawk one by one by hunting down the monsters responsible for their deaths. For the second, it's less overt rape and more he knew how the princess felt about him and took advantage of her to make himself feel powerful. ACES CURE PLANES posted:I know it's probably beaten to death but I really do wonder how things would have played out if there was just a little bit of actual goddamn communication between those idiots. Wouldn't have mattered. For Griffith it would have been the same.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:23 |
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TheLoneStar posted:So, what this means is that monsters aren't around every corner, except when Guts is around they come out to play more often? I had just been under the impression that after the Eclipse, it was basically like an invasion, where any trip through the woods or a lonely dirt path could make you run into all sorts of demons and creatures. The Eclipse is a huge deal, but more because it occurs once ever 250 or so years to add another member to the God Hand. Don't ask too much about God Hand particulars, we have lots of inferred information, but nothing solid and that was one of the threads that Miura left unresolved. quote:Was that really a rape? She was caught off-guard, but seemed very into things before the kiss even ended. But yes, that's true. It was about the stupidest thing he could've done in that situation aside from trying to usurp the throne by cutting the king's head.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:24 |
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Burkion posted:For the first, nope. Its due to Guts himself. There are monsters that lurk, but they're rare and mostly Apostle related. The spirits and horrible nasties that plague Guts can only manifest because of his brand. Apostles are, to a one, humans who forsake their humanity for power, so they escape this separation by nature but they're still isolated- unless something like the Eclipse happens. As you'll see when/if you go back to the early chapters, all of the Apostles from there can be found in the Eclipse and they are the same people. Guts was basically avenging the Band of the Hawk one by one by hunting down the monsters responsible for their deaths. mind the walrus posted:Probably statutory rape, and definitely a case of Griffith leveraging his talents to predatory ends. If nothing else this is what absolutely seals Griffith as a piece of poo poo prior to the Eclipse in my eyes-- when he was proven fallible and no longer King poo poo of poo poo Mountain, he beelined to the most vulnerable person in his social sphere just so he could get the temporary high of being idealized and on a pedestal again. But now the flashback is done. And wow, it was both a lot longer and a lot better than I was expecting. I was a bit wary with the story at first because it was so super edgy, Guts being a bit unlikable even though I knew he had a rough backstory. But it's gotten so much better. The Golden Age was just so well written and I really grew attached to the friends that Guts made. Oh, and Corkus was there too. I did have this feeling of dread the whole time, knowing that the higher things got, the worse they'd crash for everyone. Had this sense of foreboding and I kept wondering when things were going to get absolutely hosed. Especially later into it, each time the Behelit showed up, I wondered if Griffith's descent into demonkind was right around the corner or not. Really makes me wonder how things would be if this had been where the manga started. Not as a flashback, but just the very start. That dramatic irony would be gone, but I wonder how much more of a punch Griffith's betrayal would've been if no one knew it was coming? Really feel for Casca, so traumatized that she can barely function. When she survived the Eclipse, I first wondered if Guts just forced her to let him part ways with her, but naturally the reality is a lot worse. Also, I should've seen it coming that the blacksmith that Guts befriended would be the source of that massive sword of his. Really satisfying to see him whip it out and kill that monster that attacked Godo's home. And that metal arm really is groovy.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:39 |
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TheLoneStar posted:I guess I hadn't realized that had driven him so insane. It wasn't that, really. That's what crushed his world. I don't think he realized how important Guts was to him until he lost him, as it always goes. Guts leaving destroyed him, and from that point on Guts was the only thing in his thoughts (Miura shows Griffith thinking of Guts even when he was having sex with Charlotte). But that itself is not really insanity. What really made Griffith lose his mind was 1) probably the year of intense torture. I mean, it's safe to say that played a role. 2) Seeing Casca and Guts together again. The last thread of sanity was severed when he overheard Guts and Casca talking about the possibility leaving the band together (the point at which Griffith stole the carriage). And that's why Griffith raped Casca and forced Guts to watch. His way of reasserting the dominance and control he felt he lost.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:49 |
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:It wasn't that, really. That's what crushed his world. I don't think he realized how important Guts was to him until he lost him, as it always goes. Guts leaving destroyed him, and from that point on Guts was the only thing in his thoughts (Miura shows Griffith thinking of Guts even when he was having sex with Charlotte). But that itself is not really insanity. What really made Griffith lose his mind was 1) probably the year of intense torture. I mean, it's safe to say that played a role. 2) Seeing Casca and Guts together again. The last thread of sanity was severed when he overheard Guts and Casca talking about the possibility leaving the band together (the point at which Griffith stole the carriage). And that's why Griffith raped Casca and forced Guts to watch. His way of reasserting the dominance and control he felt he lost. And forgot to say, I had been wondering what that weird little monster-thing was that Guts kept seeing in the first few chapters. Never thought it was a stillborn(?) demon fetus. Jesus...
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:52 |
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TheLoneStar posted:Really makes me wonder how things would be if this had been where the manga started. Not as a flashback, but just the very start. That dramatic irony would be gone, but I wonder how much more of a punch Griffith's betrayal would've been if no one knew it was coming? It also does not contain the Skull Knight save so it leaves you flabbergasted at the end, it cuts with Guts losing his eye as his vision is covered with blood and last sight being Griffith raping caska, and then credit roll! The end! To add insult to injury, most anime seasons are 26 episodes long, but this anime ends at episode 25, so my first instinct was did I miss an episode?? Nope! That's the end! The only way the anime makes sense, as other mentioned, is if you then go back and watch the first episode, which connects all the dots and is pretty beautiful. But I had a friend who did not, he just ended up confused and moved on.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:53 |
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I do wonder what would have happened if the eclipse never occurred or if Griffith turned down the godhand's offer. My theory is that Guts would have wound up King instead of Griffith.
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# ? May 24, 2021 22:58 |
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TheLoneStar posted:Very true, yeah. Griffith really became obsessed with those two. Wonder what would've happened if he hadn't overheard them talking about leaving... Guts and Casca's kid Its a difficult story there. I think the proper term is miscarriage. You'll learn more about them soon
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# ? May 24, 2021 23:00 |
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Disagree. On the one hand Griffith never "lost his mind" or went insane. He was the same controlling ab/user the entire time. Going to Charlotte was tactically accurate: He was using her because the king would have to acquiesce if there was a child. It was a direct power play. But what's being forgotten here is what Griffith himself says atop the hand after being told that his path was interrupted: Guts is the only one who made him forget his dream. Griffith had that dream firmly in his mind until that sword broke. As Dr just reminded us, Griffith was thinking about Guts, not Charlotte. About Guts, not the torture. About his hands around Guts' throat, not the Hawks. Hanging out with Guts and the armor, not what the Hawks were doing next. The period where Griffith lost his dream? Sword to sacrifice. Happy I'm gathering things to look for when I start the reread here, hopefully within the next week. ps I'm not sure I've ever made sense of the move on Casca. Maybe he knew Guts was independent but wanted to see if Casca was going to stay because she still worshipped him or actually loved him instead of Guts? Or the fleeing, not sure what he hoped to achieve. (But again I'd say it's because he had "lost Guts so he had lost everything".) PhantomOfTheCopier fucked around with this message at 23:13 on May 24, 2021 |
# ? May 24, 2021 23:08 |
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Lucasar posted:Guts was chosen for the assassination mission because Griffith does not feel the need to maintain a veneer of nobility with him. This is because Guts is the only member of the Band of the Hawk who does not rely on Griffith. Guts does not need to believe in Griffith to be effective - think of why Corkus is so unnerved by Guts; he's not just jealous, Guts represents a real challenge to Griffith's cult of personality. Griffith would absolutely kill a child if it meant getting what he wanted, but he also wants to maintain his clean-cut reputation. His allowing Guts to see this side of him and then the following scene where Griffith talks of friendship has got to be one of the most important parts of the whole Golden Age. It's arguably the pivotal moment, because it puts in Guts' head that his lack of a greater purpose means he can't stand shoulder to shoulder with Griffith as an equal and a friend. If that never happens then Guts doesn't try to leave the Hawks, which means Griffith doesn't go off the deep end and kick off bad times. PhantomOfTheCopier posted:On the one hand Griffith never "lost his mind" or went insane. He was the same controlling ab/user the entire time. Going to Charlotte was tactically accurate: He was using her because the king would have to acquiesce if there was a child. It was a direct power play. Marrying Charlotte as a means of seizing the throne was a good idea sure, but breaking into her room to bang her with no escape plan except hoping she'd get pregnant and the King would have to give up was not. Presumably had Guts never left Griffith would have tried to get Charlotte's hand but when it became clear the king was never going to let her marry anybody, Griffith would have bumped him off just as he did the queen and then swooped in to pick up Charlotte on the rebound. Sydin fucked around with this message at 23:18 on May 24, 2021 |
# ? May 24, 2021 23:14 |
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I think the eclipse always would have happened, even if Griffith didn't go to the princess and then to the jail. Causality and such, the Godhand would have gotten him there some other way.
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# ? May 24, 2021 23:21 |
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:On the one hand Griffith never "lost his mind" or went insane. He was the same controlling ab/user the entire time. Going to Charlotte was tactically accurate: He was using her because the king would have to acquiesce if there was a child. It was a direct power play. As for him not losing his mind - hard agree - he was always a narcissistic psychopathic murderous evil bastard with no room in his life for compassion. quote:I think the eclipse always would have happened, even if Griffith didn't go to the princess and then to the jail. Causality and such, the Godhand would have gotten him there some other way. I think if the eclipse didn't happen, Guts and Caska would have just disappeared into the sunset and lived a troubled but merry life somewhere. Bisse fucked around with this message at 23:33 on May 24, 2021 |
# ? May 24, 2021 23:22 |
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TheLoneStar posted:So, what this means is that monsters aren't around every corner, except when Guts is around they come out to play more often? I had just been under the impression that after the Eclipse, it was basically like an invasion, where any trip through the woods or a lonely dirt path could make you run into all sorts of demons and creatures. As the Skull Knight said, Guts is in the "interstice" between realms. The manga will explain what that really means in due time so don't worry. Just know for now that Guts and Casca are basically demon magnets. Though you should also take note of all this "Age of Darkness" stuff. The rest of the world has not been unaffected.
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# ? May 24, 2021 23:25 |
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Since first-time readers are past the Eclipse point I can finally link these https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9iMfRBDf0 Also this is a really cool moment during the Eclipse from the movies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sz9cgtNBgs lezard_valeth fucked around with this message at 23:28 on May 24, 2021 |
# ? May 24, 2021 23:25 |
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TheLoneStar posted:Very true, yeah. Griffith really became obsessed with those two. Wonder what would've happened if he hadn't overheard them talking about leaving... Quoting this so you see- When you do go back to reread the opening arcs, especially the Count, pay attention to the Count's flash back There's only 4 Godhand 7 years prior to that moment. Which is consistent with the timeline- Griffith only rose to power after the Count did.
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# ? May 24, 2021 23:40 |
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Dumb question. Miura has said the story (the first part anyway) is based on a childhood/teenage experience. Has there been an indication of who it was in what circumstances? I really wonder what their thoughts were when they found out Miura died. Second question (poor memory). Does Guts ever learn that the downfall occurred immediately after his departure? Casca obviously shares what they've been going through, but she's not a complete jerk so it doesn't seem likely she'd acknowledge much beyond "yeah it's me I'm pissed you left". Does anyone every actually say, "You destroyed Griffith"? And since I was flipping through the eclipse checking Griffith's last line, I remembered my next reason to cry.
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# ? May 24, 2021 23:43 |
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Dumb question. Miura has said the story (the first part anyway) is based on a childhood/teenage experience. Has there been an indication of who it was in what circumstances? I really wonder what their thoughts were when they found out Miura died. Corkus, in his only moment of trying to comfort Guts in his own weird way, actually does the opposite. https://www.reddit.com/r/Berserk/comments/n3u1el/do_you_guys_think_corkus_was_just_telling_guts/ It's notably the only time he lies to Guts too. Every other time he's critical of Guts, he always has a point. This time, trying to spare Guts' feelings, he lies. If on purpose or by accident, it's a reason he's a fascinating character.
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# ? May 24, 2021 23:47 |
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:As the Skull Knight said, Guts is in the "interstice" between realms. The manga will explain what that really means in due time so don't worry. Just know for now that Guts and Casca are basically demon magnets. Though you should also take note of all this "Age of Darkness" stuff. The rest of the world has not been unaffected. Burkion posted:Quoting this so you see- When you do go back to reread the opening arcs, especially the Count, pay attention to the Count's flash back Speaking of which, back to present Guts. He's a lot less edgy so far, which is a good treat. Still really don't like Puck. Especially after he was (mostly) gone for so many chapters, having the constant comic relief character again makes me sigh a bit. Seems like that Elf lady is back though, or whatever she really is. I remember her from that massacre, which I'm sure Guts knows about by this point. Also got a nice treat of Berserk's Prototype. Interesting to see how much things changed, yet stayed the same. Almost wish regular Guts had that eyepatch... TheLoneStar fucked around with this message at 23:53 on May 24, 2021 |
# ? May 24, 2021 23:51 |
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PhantomOfTheCopier posted:Dumb question. Miura has said the story (the first part anyway) is based on a childhood/teenage experience. Has there been an indication of who it was in what circumstances? I really wonder what their thoughts were when they found out Miura died. quote:Miura: [In high school] I was in a group full of people saying they wanted to be manga artists, but were actually busy getting girlfriends and getting into fights, so they weren't really all that otaku. So I was basically the biggest manga nerd out of the bunch. It was a group of five, and I was pretty much the yellow ranger of the group: lagging behind in terms of emotional growth, but way ahead of the others in terms of drawing ability. I wasn't capable of making a story that would really make anyone feel much of anything, though.
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# ? May 25, 2021 00:00 |
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These bug people are so freaky. Some of these Berserk monsters have shown up in my dreams, whether I want them to or not. Really effective.
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# ? May 25, 2021 00:25 |
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The fact that Miura started the series and got two volumes in without knowing what it would ultimately be about makes a lot of sense now. It also explains why Guts' edginess comes off as a bit hollow at first, in my opinion.
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# ? May 25, 2021 00:30 |
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Kart Barfunkel posted:These bug people are so freaky. Some of these Berserk monsters have shown up in my dreams, whether I want them to or not. Really effective.
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# ? May 25, 2021 00:31 |
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Bisse posted:I think if the eclipse didn't happen, Guts and Caska would have just disappeared into the sunset and lived a troubled but merry life somewhere. Where my little fan theory comes from is that quite a few thing probably would still have happened without Griffith sacrificing The Hawks. Like the Kushan invasion probably would have still happened, however with the original Hawks still around things might have progessed quite differently.
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# ? May 25, 2021 00:37 |
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The fact that Miura started the series and got two volumes in without knowing what it would ultimately be about makes a lot of sense now. It also explains why Guts' edginess comes off as a bit hollow at first, in my opinion. Its when he starts making the comparisons between himself and Vargas that I feel like the edginess dulls and the true character shines So that lines up pretty perfectly yeah. That's when he started figuring it out himself. The entire final moment with Theresia is a stand out because that was him genuinely trying to help her the only way he understood anymore and it destroyed him to make someone else like him again. That's probably the cruelest thing he ever does and I believe is the last time we see him crying, and its right before we smack into the Golden Age. It also lines up perfectly with The Lost Children and what happens there
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# ? May 25, 2021 00:37 |
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Just finished Lost Children, and it was pretty depressing. I feel bad for Rosine, even though she really had to be put down. Got turned into a demon without knowing what she was really doing and clearly went completely insane as a result. And it seems like Guts is going to keep traumatizing children by slaughtering those they hold dear. Speaking of which, I'm glad Guts' edginess went down for this. Went from giving a girl a knife to slit her wrist with to just telling Jill to go home because it's too dangerous for her to be with him. Interested to see how the knightly order will play into things, the one that's chasing Guts down. And I know I sound like a broken record but holy poo poo I hate Puck. He's actually gotten worse with all the pop culture references he keeps making. Especially since him and Guts have the same interaction five times a chapter. Guts says something mean. Puck gets mad at him and asks him how he could be so cruel. Guts ignores him or flicks him away. Probably happened at least a dozen times in this arc alone. Makes it worse because Puck has no real reason to even be with Guts. He just kind of wants to, as far as he'll admit.
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# ? May 25, 2021 02:06 |
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David D. Davidson posted:Where my little fan theory comes from is that quite a few thing probably would still have happened without Griffith sacrificing The Hawks. Like the Kushan invasion probably would have still happened, however with the original Hawks still around things might have progessed quite differently. Honestly the fact that "where Griffith's behelit would have activated" can create dozens of equally compelling alternate versions of the Berserk universe is a testament to how well the whole conceit works. Really, top-notch stuff when you get down to it. TheLoneStar posted:Really love the monster designs so far. All sorts of freaks of various shapes and sizes and limbs and eyes and claws. Truly feels like they crawled straight out of Hell. Also it is otaku supreme to see Miura call his high school self "the yellow ranger of the group: lagging behind in terms of emotional growth, but way ahead of the others in terms of drawing ability" is some primo poo poo. Really wish I could have bought the dude a steak or something in appreciation.
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# ? May 25, 2021 02:17 |
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Puck is annoying but also that arc has that great page of Guts saying he can't take himself that seriously whenever puck is around with the closest thing to a smile on his face. Edit:
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# ? May 25, 2021 02:18 |
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# ? Jun 13, 2024 05:52 |
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:The fact that Miura started the series and got two volumes in without knowing what it would ultimately be about makes a lot of sense now. It also explains why Guts' edginess comes off as a bit hollow at first, in my opinion. Put together with the later arcs it becomes tragic-- after all the development and self-actualization he got in the Golden Age, the trauma of the Eclipse caused Guts to regress into the worst parts of himself. The way he gradually gets past the no-touching thing only for it to come roaring back is especially sad. I think it's a testament to Miura's skills that the super-edgy, seat-of-the-pants storytelling from the opening arc ends up looking planned. Opening scene of Guts banging demon lady notwithstanding. It's so goofy I'd never change it for the world, though.
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# ? May 25, 2021 02:43 |