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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:well even getting to that point probably makes them both over 100 years old Crap, you're right. Fine. They can piss off Apollo or something then.
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May 25, 2021 01:47
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Elissimpark posted:Easy done. They rejoin the legions in Judea, end up on watch duty at a bunch of crucifixions, Titus pokes some Jewish bloke claiming to be King of the Jews with a spear so they can knock off early. Wander the earth until Judgement day. The guy who stabbed Jesus supposedly died a martyr and became a saint though.
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May 25, 2021 02:23
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i want at least three Rome spin offs: - Punic War(s) - Marius v Sulla - Crisis of the Third Century Then they can move on to Byzantium
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May 25, 2021 02:29
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Elissimpark posted:Easy done. They rejoin the legions in Judea, end up on watch duty at a bunch of crucifixions, Titus pokes some Jewish bloke claiming to be King of the Jews with a spear so they can knock off early. Wander the earth until Judgement day. Titus turns out to be a Perpetual and shows up at the Siege of Terra in a Horus Heresy novel
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May 25, 2021 02:43
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Samuel Clemens posted:The guy who stabbed Jesus supposedly died a martyr and became a saint though. Yeah, I actually looked him up after my post cos I couldn't remember how to spell his name. I swear I've read somewhere he got the poo poo immortality thing, but I must have him confused with the Wandering Jew. Or the Roman dude in Borges' City of the Immortals.
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May 25, 2021 03:26
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Big Willy Style posted:Titus turns out to be a Perpetual and shows up at the Siege of Terra in a Horus Heresy novel Jesus is just GEOMk before he really gets that humans are fucks
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May 25, 2021 07:06
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The Rome show I want is a comedy that follows Pliny the Younger as he tries to deal with his hilariously incompetent subordinates in his province.
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May 25, 2021 08:43
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I was wondering how was the most famous assassin of Caesar, Brutus, seen in antiquity. I know that later on, especially during enlightenment he was seen as patriot who brought down a tyrant. But how did people see him during, say, Principate period. I'd reckon that imperial court would see him as a traitor what with the emperors being hailed as caesars. Did it depend on your position, ie. senate class would have different views on him than emperors? And how did the views on him change through time? I know that in medieval times Dante famously put him and Cassius to suffer in hell as great betrayers along with Judas.
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May 25, 2021 12:19
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Glah posted:I was wondering how was the most famous assassin of Caesar, Brutus, seen in antiquity. I know that later on, especially during enlightenment he was seen as patriot who brought down a tyrant. But how did people see him during, say, Principate period. I'd reckon that imperial court would see him as a traitor what with the emperors being hailed as caesars. Did it depend on your position, ie. senate class would have different views on him than emperors? And how did the views on him change through time? I know that in medieval times Dante famously put him and Cassius to suffer in hell as great betrayers along with Judas. Tacitus famously said that when Brutus and Cassius died there was no longer an army of the republic. Like Cato, these guys had a long-lasting reputation for defending the interests of the aristocracy against popular military tyrants. That’s what they saw themselves as doing (as far as we can tell) and that’s what the tyrants saw them as doing, too, which suggests it was also what a lot of the populace saw them as doing. In Brutus’ case there was a particularly strong afterimage of “Brutus, defender of the republic” because of his famous ancestor who had dethroned the Tarquins. I would recommend reading Plutarch’s Life of Brutus: it’s not impartial history, but definitely expresses that he was a controversial figure to Romans. Plutarch, a well-off local politician and intellectual, obviously thought very highly of him. But he can’t avoid mentioning the fact that not everyone did.
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May 25, 2021 13:01
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Longinus becomes the original vampire, clearly.
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May 25, 2021 13:02
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Elissimpark posted:Yeah, I actually looked him up after my post cos I couldn't remember how to spell his name. I swear I've read somewhere he got the poo poo immortality thing, but I must have him confused with the Wandering Jew. You ever seen ROAR?
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May 25, 2021 13:45
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Grevling posted:I like that channel a lot too, it's nice to just watch a good old documentary sometimes and the research seems up do date. The same guy who does the art for those documentaries also collaborates with this youtube channel, which also has great videos despite the atrocious dad humor. I like this one especially since the first farmers who colonized central Europe are fascinating. I've been watching more of this channel and it has skyrocketed up to my favorite youtube channel, thank you (this one is a standout, this one is my second favorite so far: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pv0RscAummQ) CrypticFox posted:Life and Society in the Hittite World by Trevor Bryce will be your best bet for Hittite social and economic history. I haven't read much of it, but its very well regarded. I have read Bryce's book The Kingdom of the Hittites, which is a political and diplomatic history of the Hittites, and it's very good and generally easy to follow, so I'm sure Life and Society is too. I haven't read enough about Egypt to give a good answer on that subject, but I'm sure someone else will be able to help there. This was a while ago and I finished it a few weeks ago but never got around to saying thank you for the recommendation. It was an an absolute blast to read and had some really revelatory things. 1. Most noteworthy to me, this is the 3rd Bronze Age legal system that I've picked up any meaningful amount of knowledge on (the others being Sumer and Egypt), and this is the 3rd one that does not give a poo poo about homosexuality. The Hittite laws seem to be pretty complete, and they're REALLY invested in policing sexuality (the one time the Hittites invoke "imperial law supercedes local law" is for incest, and they don't have the death penalty for murder but do have the death penalty for having sex with pigs sheep and dogs (but very specifically not horses or mules)), so the fact that they don't mention it at all is pretty telling. 2. gently caress the Hittite religion. Just, on the level of trying to study it or comprehend it. It's like a polytheism of polytheisms, just complicated beyond all reckoning. What a pain in the rear end. Anytime they conquered an area they'd just adopt all the local gods into their official pantheon, and they'd brag about being "the land of a thousand gods." Too many goddamn gods. 3. Overall I walked away with an impression of the Hittites as a very pragmatic culture, relative to their neighbors and for their time period. Very straightforward understandings of how to govern and how the gods work and what should be done, not a lot of speculation or rigidity. Oddest piece of this was that no king poo poo-talks another king. Officially every king is great. Even kings who coup other kings make it clear that they lead a coup or caused a civil war for purely personal reasons. Weird. Ghost Leviathan posted:Longinus becomes the original vampire, clearly. Literally a central belief of a major faction in Vampire: The Requiem.
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May 25, 2021 14:46
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Elissimpark posted:Easy done. They rejoin the legions in Judea, end up on watch duty at a bunch of crucifixions, Titus pokes some Jewish bloke claiming to be King of the Jews with a spear so they can knock off early. Wander the earth until Judgement day. literally that was the plan. Season 2 was the original season 2 and 34 mashed together, and then it was going to shift to Judea in the 4th and 5th seasons to follow the rise of christ and i am so loving glad that never happened.
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May 25, 2021 15:21
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Brawnfire posted:You ever seen ROAR? My brain keeps reading that as RUR and getting confused. What's ROAR?
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May 25, 2021 17:05
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Tulip posted:2. gently caress the Hittite religion. Just, on the level of trying to study it or comprehend it. It's like a polytheism of polytheisms, just complicated beyond all reckoning. What a pain in the rear end. Anytime they conquered an area they'd just adopt all the local gods into their official pantheon, and they'd brag about being "the land of a thousand gods." Too many goddamn gods. Isn't that, like, all polytheism anywhere ever? I mean, in itself syncretism seems like the standard human religious mode and the judeo-christian essentialist iconoclastic denial of everybody else's gods is the odd duck, historically speaking. But on a basic level that seems to be how polytheism works; if you worship a few dozen gods, and the people across the river worship half of those and a couple dozen more of their own, who's to say they're wrong about the latter? There's not much more evidence of either set. And pragmatically, the permissive approach with expansive pantheons provides an obvious benefit for expansionary empires, allowing them to let conquered peoples officially hold on to their local cults of worship, reducing resistance to occupation and external rule without risk of retribution for defying the state.
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May 25, 2021 17:46
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Fuschia tude posted:Isn't that, like, all polytheism anywhere ever? I mean, in itself syncretism seems like the standard human religious mode and the judeo-christian essentialist iconoclastic denial of everybody else's gods is the odd duck, historically speaking. But on a basic level that seems to be how polytheism works; if you worship a few dozen gods, and the people across the river worship half of those and a couple dozen more of their own, who's to say they're wrong about the latter? There's not much more evidence of either set. And pragmatically, the permissive approach with expansive pantheons provides an obvious benefit for expansionary empires, allowing them to let conquered peoples officially hold on to their local cults of worship, reducing resistance to occupation and external rule without risk of retribution for defying the state. I think Tulip is used to interpretatio graeca/interpretatio romana reducing the number of distinct gods to a manageable level. Plus most people today have already learned about the major Greek gods as kids, but not the Hittite ones.
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May 25, 2021 18:04
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e^ I"m not surprised that I'm not explaining it well because it was easily the most confusing thing I've studied in the last couple years, so trying to explain something that I admittedly don't really understand is not going to produce good results. I suppose I should just say that I recommend reading Bryce's Life & Society in the Hittite World because me playing garbled telephone is probably not doing anyone any favors.Fuschia tude posted:Isn't that, like, all polytheism anywhere ever? I mean, in itself syncretism seems like the standard human religious mode and the judeo-christian essentialist iconoclastic denial of everybody else's gods is the odd duck, historically speaking. But on a basic level that seems to be how polytheism works; if you worship a few dozen gods, and the people across the river worship half of those and a couple dozen more of their own, who's to say they're wrong about the latter? There's not much more evidence of either set. And pragmatically, the permissive approach with expansive pantheons provides an obvious benefit for expansionary empires, allowing them to let conquered peoples officially hold on to their local cults of worship, reducing resistance to occupation and external rule without risk of retribution for defying the state. Oh yeah, the Hittites just carry it to a very far logical extreme. Like an order of magnitude more gods than the Sumerians or Egyptians. The logic you're talking about - that the Hittites were just pragmatically allowing local cultures to continue with minimal administrative friction - is definitely at work here. When I describe the Hittites as "pragmatic" this is part of what I mean. Like I'm not sure I can really describe it short of just posting the entire chapter but it's basically an order of magnitude larger than e.g. the Egyptian pantheon. There's so many Sun and Storm gods that archaeologists often refer to them not as if they are named gods but as broad templates. For the Egyptians there's enough sun gods that we start to see some mergers like Atum-Ra and Ra-Horakhty, for the Hittites there's so many mergers that nearly every god becomes a shifting quilt of multiple gods' domains and personalities. Trying to describe several centuries of practiced polytheism over an empire is always going to be confusing, the Hittites just seem like a massively greater pain in the rear end than that already high average. Tulip fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 18:15
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Were the hittites Semitic or indo European or .. other ?
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May 25, 2021 18:17
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euphronius posted:Were the hittites Semitic or indo European or .. other ? Indo European, specifically Anatolian. But a lot of their writings were in Akkaddian (being the lingua franca of the day), plus a decent amount in Sumerian and Hurian. Luwian was also very common and became more so over the empire's run. e: Bryce says there are 8 languages used in the Hittite archives, I forgot about Old Hattic which gets us up to 6, maybe Egyptian and Ugaritic? Tulip fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 18:21
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Tulip posted:Indo European, specifically Anatolian. But a lot of their writings were in Akkaddian (being the lingua franca of the day), plus a decent amount in Sumerian and Hurian. Luwian was also very common and became more so over the empire's run. Haha and I bet each scribe had idiosyncratic transliterations
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May 25, 2021 18:22
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Elissimpark posted:My brain keeps reading that as RUR and getting confused. What's ROAR? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roar_(American_TV_series) At one point in the show one of the main bad guys is Longinus, who is effectively immortal due to never being allowed the peace of death, but he's a huge loving rear end in a top hat because he's eternally tormented.
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May 25, 2021 18:50
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Brawnfire posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roar_(American_TV_series) I have never heard of that show. Wonder how they got Heath Ledger on it?
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May 25, 2021 22:24
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Elissimpark posted:I have never heard of that show. Wonder how they got Heath Ledger on it? It's 1997, no one knew who he was
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May 25, 2021 23:51
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What a difference a decade makes, eh?
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May 26, 2021 01:22
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skasion posted:It's 1997, no one knew who he was I was about to say Two Hands, but that was 1999.
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May 26, 2021 11:13
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IIRC in a lot of ancient middle eastern empires it was common for the top dog city to gather all the major idols of their subject cities to basically make them do pilgrimages to the main city. And so they could insert their god (looking at you, Marduk) as the boss of the pantheon. So when the Assyrians destroyed Babylon annd its collection of religious stuff it was regarded as a pretty major blasphemy that pissed off a lot of their subjects at the time.
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May 29, 2021 21:15
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https://twitter.com/LegoRacers2/status/1398805157744316417
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May 30, 2021 03:18
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They say they're mule-positive but good luck getting a palace or temple job with that on your record.
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May 30, 2021 07:35
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Tulip posted:
Didn't a great deal of the students of a university in.. a want to say the Ottoman empire.. wind up as brigands because they couldn't be employed in their field? It's a tradition, really. FreudianSlippers posted:Circa 1000 the Danes discovered the concept of being Ligeglad roughly translated as "not giving a gently caress" Some historians think we also developed prototypes of Hygge at this point, thus reaching a perfect storm of not caring about the outside world. Tias fucked around with this message at 15:29 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 15:23
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Medieval university students were famous for being a bunch of drunk thugs living it up apparently. Theres a free etext of the Records of Medieval Oxford and like half of it is coroner’s reports of clerks shanking each other
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May 30, 2021 15:47
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skasion posted:Medieval university students were famous for being a bunch of drunk thugs living it up apparently. Theres a free etext of the Records of Medieval Oxford and like half of it is coroner’s reports of clerks shanking each other The reason Cambridge exists as a university is the students got sufficiently up the townspeoples' noses there was a riot, a bunch of people got lynched, and a sufficient quantity of students were like 'gently caress this we're going somewhere quieter'.
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May 30, 2021 15:51
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feedmegin posted:The reason Cambridge exists as a university is the students got sufficiently up the townspeoples' noses there was a riot, a bunch of people got lynched, and a sufficient quantity of students were like 'gently caress this we're going somewhere quieter'. i realize this is not a joke but it 100% reads like one quote:A petition by the town authorities to Parliament said the students "threw the said wine in the face of John Croidon, taverner, and then with the said quart pot beat the said John".
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May 30, 2021 15:59
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eke out posted:i realize this is not a joke but it 100% reads like one There’s something about the matter of fact tone of these medieval findings of fact that is incredibly hilarious to me. The Record always follows this specific format like “there was no wound on him, except only that his skull was utterly broken even unto the brain” or whatever
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May 30, 2021 16:10
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skasion posted:Medieval university students were famous for being a bunch of drunk thugs living it up apparently.
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May 30, 2021 21:05
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I feel like that Hittite law code is finally explaining to me how the Trojan horse worked.
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May 30, 2021 22:33
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I just wonder what these students thought they were gonna get with wine from a place called Swindlestock
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May 31, 2021 01:53
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Hey so do archeologists think that the modern Assyrians are the ancient Assyrians, or is that just bunk?
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May 31, 2021 03:25
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There's still plenty of debate but the genetic evidence is good that modern Assyrians are a distinct ethnic group with long roots in the region, so a lot of people accept their claim of continuity. I think they are and it's not that controversial, there are other modern ethnic groups that have lineages going back that long or longer. Jews for an uncontroversial example from the same region.
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May 31, 2021 03:30
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The world is divided on the big issues
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May 31, 2021 14:29
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Grand Fromage posted:There's still plenty of debate but the genetic evidence is good that modern Assyrians are a distinct ethnic group with long roots in the region, so a lot of people accept their claim of continuity. I think they are and it's not that controversial, there are other modern ethnic groups that have lineages going back that long or longer. Jews for an uncontroversial example from the same region. Thanks.
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May 31, 2021 16:31
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