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Javid posted:I was just photographing my favorite desire path today and thought it'd be worth a giggle for this thread. We have a really cool ped/bike bridge over a creek between two parks here: The S-curve is so that the sidewalk meets pedestrian requirements. That looks steeper than 5%, so it's probably just "safe" pedestrian grades, and not even ADA. The boulders are keeping vehicles off the bridge - per AASHTO bridge guidelines, if the bridge is X feet wide, it has to be able to support a certain design vehicle, if vehicles aren't physically excluded with bollards or other objects (like boulders).
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May 14, 2021 23:47
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Devor posted:It's because in some spots you have to stack 3 or 4 vertical clearances on top of each other to capture all the movements, plus high speed roads need to have very flat curves. So after you pass the 4-stack spot, if that top roadway was on its way up, it has to keep going up for a while as it flattens out and then back down.
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May 15, 2021 01:07
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I'm sure there are Extremely Serious Reasons why it's like that, it's just funny watching them meet reality when everyone ignores it. Hadn't even considered wheelchairs, however - the whole bridge is inclined so I can't imagine going either direction in a nonmotorized chair is pleasant. I'm guessing the city decided ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ because you can nominally access the other side via wheelchair-compatible sidewalks (nevermind that it turns the 300 yard trip into more like a mile going down to the only other bridge over that creek) Do the ped path requirements prohibit ALSO making the path people actually use less of a turd? I'm tempted to badger the city about it while they're tearing up the park anyway for unrelated renovations.
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May 15, 2021 01:17
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Chris Knight posted:Yeah fair, I guess my poorly-phrased question was more along the lines of "are there minimum air gaps between levels?" Starting from the bottom level your vertical constraints are: -Bedrock, groundwater, utilities, or just lots of earth to move prevents you from getting any lower for the bottom level -Pavement section, 1.5' to 2' for an interstate -16.5' vertical clearance is typical for interstate -Bridge superstructure (including beams and bridge deck), probably 3' to 6' depending on how far you're trying to span. Fewer piers means thicker section -Repeat vertical clearance & bridge superstructure And then you have dozens of other constraints, because each departing roadway has to tie in to the receiving roadway at precise matching grades. These constraints mean that those 20' minimum from road to road are almost always more, in practice. quote:Do the ped path requirements prohibit ALSO making the path people actually use less of a turd? I'm tempted to badger the city about it while they're tearing up the park anyway for unrelated renovations. It's doubtful that they would pave it with asphalt or concrete or otherwise encourage people to think it's a safe pathway. They ~might~ put in concrete steps, but you're talking thousands of dollars. I had a [new construction] project near a transit station where we had a loooong switchback to meet ADA grades, so we put in some stairs to prevent just that kind of shortcut. Devor fucked around with this message at 01:27 on May 15, 2021 |
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May 15, 2021 01:24
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Construction prices are completely loving insane nowadays and I cannot loving believe that my projects for this year came under budget.
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May 15, 2021 01:28
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Construction prices are completely loving insane nowadays and I cannot loving believe that my projects for this year came under budget. Your engineer's estimate was too conservative if a major spike in prices didn't blow the budget 
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May 15, 2021 01:32
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Devor posted:Your engineer's estimate was too conservative if a major spike in prices didn't blow the budget A good chunk of it was waterline work AND the rest of it was full reconstruction for 75% of it so yeah. Real talk, what the gently caress is going with costs. The only reason I caught up to costs with my own estimates like 2 years ago (for a small annual concrete program) was by basically looking at year to year costs then going let’s takes these unit costs and raise them 30%.
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May 15, 2021 02:19
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wood prices are currently turbofucked, for one.
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May 15, 2021 04:57
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I dunno what it's like elsewhere but here temporary traffic management for worksites can cost half the budget or more, depending on the type of road.
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May 15, 2021 07:09
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:A good chunk of it was waterline work AND the rest of it was full reconstruction for 75% of it so yeah. iirc a bunch of industries that make building materials cut back capacity thinking 2020 and 21 were going to be lean years and instead the opposite happened. Anyone here familiar with the Carolina Crossroads project? If so, how likely do you think it is to address the problems it's meant to address?
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May 17, 2021 20:39
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Whoever did the last bridge inspection is going to have a fun week turns out he missed it two years in a row and has been fired Drone footage of the inspection where the crack was missed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmbeDO53TK8 As the thumbnail shows…. It wasn’t subtle Happy Noodle Boy fucked around with this message at 16:50 on May 18, 2021 |
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May 18, 2021 16:44
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That drone operator could have caught it, too. Guessing by his steady eye contact with the camera he isn't looking at the drone's camera view at all, but presumably on review it would be noticed. (He was hired to inspect cables, but there's absolutely room to say "hey what about this structural element that is 3/4 gone, and it's deflecting pipe?" in your report.) Pretty special all around.
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May 18, 2021 19:24
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https://twitter.com/idothethinking/status/1394708446579085322?s=21
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May 18, 2021 20:54
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I mean I'd say it's car centric thinking with little to no regard to public or active transport that has led to parking minimums plus a whole range of other issues
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May 18, 2021 21:04
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Good video on Toronto's Riverdale* "streetcar suburb" from Not Just Bikes. Livable neighborhoods are illegal due to minimum lot and road requirements, so you end up with Vaughn. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MWsGBRdK2N0 *Stay outta Riverdale!
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May 18, 2021 21:29
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 “This is a place designed for human scale,” says the narrator as he depicts a sidewalk in which someone in a wheelchair will fall off the curb trying to get around the garbage cans.
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May 18, 2021 22:07
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Blue Moonlight posted:
Well, contrast that to some of the video from car-dependent suburbs where there is literally no sidewalk at all (4:17 in that video). Which is worse? Sure, they didn't design for wheelchairs in the 40's, it's true, but it is very possible to retrofit wider sidewalks (or mandate that garbage cans can't sit on them). It's a fixable problem, unlike the designs of car-dependent suburbs.
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May 18, 2021 22:25
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May 20, 2021 05:21
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Mississippi Bridge Chat:  some dude has photos of the bridge from 2016 that show the crack already forming.Just an oopsie we haven’t been doing our job for 5 years
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May 20, 2021 15:24
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Blue Moonlight posted:
Incidentally, he also has a video on how other countries do garbage collection, without bins littering the sidewalks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JtoSafhvLM Edit: I thought we had fancy automatic video embedding, but alas.
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May 20, 2021 16:06
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:Incidentally, he also has a video on how other countries do garbage collection, without bins littering the sidewalks. We do. It works if you use Ctrl+V to paste a video URL rather than right-clicking. Also it obviously doesn't work like that on the mobile apps, which is really annoying since a bunch of people end up posting the videos as URLs instead since the app auto-embeds video links even if they're not in the correct format (url tags rather than video).
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May 20, 2021 17:11
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Lobsterpillar posted:I mean I'd say it's car centric thinking with little to no regard to public or active transport that has led to parking minimums plus a whole range of other issues yeah, i'm not a fan of this deeply reductive hot take twitter style because it fits very well into near-conspiratorial "the MAN wanted to destroy CITIES using CARS" style logic, when of course reality is much messier and stupider than that learning the one weird trick to why everything sucks, and why it is capitalism, is a very popular rhetorical style online
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May 24, 2021 20:20
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:yeah, i'm not a fan of this deeply reductive hot take twitter style because it fits very well into near-conspiratorial "the MAN wanted to destroy CITIES using CARS" style logic, when of course reality is much messier and stupider than that Yeah, is not necessarily intentional or maliciously done. It's now that the negative side effects were disregarded, not considered in the first place, or poorly mitigated.
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May 24, 2021 22:45
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy The wikipedia article may call it a conspiracy, but if you prosecute General Motors for something, but they get away with it, it's not what I would call a "conspiracy" in today's terms.
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May 25, 2021 01:24
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the 'streetcar conspiracy' is another example of this, where we can blame some bad corporate actor for being greedy and malicious and loving everything up. nice and narratively tidy, we can point our finger at the bad guy and blame them. ...except the number of systems impacted by NCL is a small fraction of the number of streetcar systems which collapsed completely independently of any external corporate influence. like once cars were cheap and plentiful, streetcars were done with no matter what. but this idea, that we would have good transit if it werent for the corporations, is so powerful and attractive that it draws people directly to the conclusion, skipping over all the boring facts that prove this is not the case. thus we end up with a wiki article that has to explain it but you've got to read a fair bit into it to realize the article is saying "no, this didn't happen the way you think it did"
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May 25, 2021 01:43
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Devor posted:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_streetcar_conspiracy I mean, it's a literal conspiracy in that a group of people worked together to do something harmful.
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May 25, 2021 02:43
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:the 'streetcar conspiracy' is another example of this, where we can blame some bad corporate actor for being greedy and malicious and loving everything up. nice and narratively tidy, we can point our finger at the bad guy and blame them. ...except the number of systems impacted by NCL is a small fraction of the number of streetcar systems which collapsed completely independently of any external corporate influence. like once cars were cheap and plentiful, streetcars were done with no matter what. but this idea, that we would have good transit if it werent for the corporations, is so powerful and attractive that it draws people directly to the conclusion, skipping over all the boring facts that prove this is not the case. thus we end up with a wiki article that has to explain it but you've got to read a fair bit into it to realize the article is saying "no, this didn't happen the way you think it did" What's your thesis here, I'm having trouble. Is it The Inevitability of Cars After The Model T?
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May 25, 2021 03:01
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Devor posted:What's your thesis here, I'm having trouble. Is it The Inevitability of Cars After The Model T? Individually a lot of boomers and their rents liked the idea of cars, and then made policy accordingly. Now a bunch of this is absurd capitalist stuff such as “keeping up with the joneses” and “the rise of consumer culture” for sure, but some of it is just that people like owning technology and being tool-using-wizards with illusory but tangible control over their surrounds. The rise of the car was inevitable and we had to go through it to realize maybe we don’t want this.
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May 25, 2021 03:16
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Devor posted:What's your thesis here, I'm having trouble. Is it The Inevitability of Cars After The Model T? basically streetcars in america were non-viable for economic reasons once mass automobile ownership became a thing. humans love narratives with clear cut good guys (streetcars) and bad guys (corporations) and so its easy to think things like "we'd have streetcars if the corporations hadn't canceled them, because of greed". the reality is way, WAY more boring and doesn't really fit into contemporary political topics, like the wonderful and nascent rebirth of pro-urbanist thinking among the online left who have a lot of natural reasons to be mad at the corporations who canceled streetcars, if that actually happened to not make a kajillion words, remember that streetcars of the early 20th century were not public services like we think of mass transit today. cities assuming control of mass transit is a very mid 20th century thing, as governments moved to assert control over failing for-profit transit systems to keep them alive. cities back then were loving crowded, noisy, cramped, smelly, etc. it was very profitable to run streetcars (especially if you were also an electricity generation company, or a land speculation and construction company, or god bless all three at once) because of the tons of people and that electric streetcars were a great and affordable way to get around in like 1910. and then mass car ownership happened, earlier than a lot of people think (by like, 1920) and automobile suburbs became a thing and streetcars werent as attractive anymore. there simply was not a place for the for-profit electric streetcar in american cities any longer, that time had come and gone over six decades, a time ended by automotive suburbanization and traffic jams what we can definitely blame GM for is buying streetcar lines and steering the conversion of them to bus infrastructure, bought from GM and affiliated companies. this is shady and wrong and also very boring. but pretty much every streetcar line in america died (there are very rare survivors) or converted to buses over this time period, with or without GMs involvement, because america was all-in on car ownership as a land use/transportation primary mode and thats an ongoing disaster of course Anias posted:Individually a lot of boomers and their rents liked the idea of cars, and then made policy accordingly. Now a bunch of this is absurd capitalist stuff such as “keeping up with the joneses” and “the rise of consumer culture” for sure, but some of it is just that people like owning technology and being tool-using-wizards with illusory but tangible control over their surrounds. The rise of the car was inevitable and we had to go through it to realize maybe we don’t want this. one of the most tangible benefits to automotive suburbanization is the wildly cheap cost of living tied to generational wealth building for the middle class. this was such a huge thing that it still profoundly impacts american society today, and a lot of aging millenials have to choose between a fun, authentic, expensive life intown or surrendering to becoming your parents and moving to the loving burbs, where at least you can almost afford a place to live Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 04:37 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 04:35
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The past is the past. What America can blame itself for right now is being slow as gently caress on the uptake that a car only stroad culture is bad and that something needs to change now. As far as I can tell only a couple of American cities are actually making progress in this regard, all others are still like BUT MURICAH BEST.
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May 25, 2021 06:55
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:a time ended by automotive suburbanization and traffic jams 
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May 25, 2021 10:48
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The streetcar companies were also corrupt monopolist assholes and loving them over was a major plot point in Citizen Kane
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May 25, 2021 12:47
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Jasper Tin Neck posted:There is a fairly easy and cheap solution to streetcars (or buses) stuck in traffic jams, though. It just requires going against such widely held misconceptions about how traffic works, that Class B right of way is a non-starter in US cities. I've seen this kind of setup in a few places in US cities. Typically it's reserved for the most high-traffic streets, but it does exist. I expect it's unpopular because it squeezes cars into fewer lanes in areas where there's already not enough space for the drivers that want to be there, and people don't want to change their driving patterns. US uptake of mass transit is greatly hampered by its culture, in particular: - The people who need mass transit are typically poorer, and poor people are routinely discriminated against, so mass transit doesn't get the support it needs - Personal vehicles are status symbols for many (and the bigger, the better) - People stuck in heavy traffic will bitch about how there's too many cars on the road, and then also bitch about the bus they're stuck behind, with absolutely zero self-awareness. Hell, I've done this myself. In general I feel like the utility of cars is judged not based on the reality on the ground, but on a hypothetical reality where there's 20-lane freeways running everywhere with copious cheap parking surrounding every destination.
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May 25, 2021 15:14
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paragon1 posted:iirc a bunch of industries that make building materials cut back capacity thinking 2020 and 21 were going to be lean years and instead the opposite happened. I’m a bit familiar with that project, living in SC. My company isn’t involved with that one (too busy with another huge project here). I think it’ll be a massive and expensive headache for years while it’s under construction, but it’ll do it’s job once it’s done. Assuming you’re familiar with the area, you know how bad that 20/26 interchange is in regards to weaving. This will at least fix that. The widening will also help, as I’ve noticed the lane drop when it goes back to two lanes always causes a backup as well. SCDOT has a project on the books to widen I-26 from mile markers 85-101 that will connect to the northern end of the Crossroads project. For those not living in SC, this project will be the most expensive project in South Carolina’s history, around $2B if I remember correctly. http://www.scdotcarolinacrossroads.com/
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May 25, 2021 15:47
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Carbon dioxide posted:The past is the past. nah, over the last 25 years american cities have broadly been trying to correct car-based development patterns and infrastructure where they can. for example dallas, texas went from having basically no rail service to building out the longest light rail network in the nation. its not enough relative to new road construction but at least an attempt is being made
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May 25, 2021 16:00
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Mr. Fall Down Terror posted:nah, over the last 25 years american cities have broadly been trying to correct car-based development patterns and infrastructure where they can. for example dallas, texas went from having basically no rail service to building out the longest light rail network in the nation. its not enough relative to new road construction but at least an attempt is being made I feel like "we're building less mass transit infrastructure than new road construction" is not exactly "trying to correct car-based development patterns"
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May 27, 2021 01:51
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Fuschia tude posted:I feel like "we're building less mass transit infrastructure than new road construction" is not exactly "trying to correct car-based development patterns" Can we have a "green infrastructure chat" thread so that the holier-than-thou one-upsmanship doesn't have to be in this one. Post cool photos of new bike lanes, post photos of awful bike facilities to point at and laugh. Just don't feel the need to chime in about a statement about how it's surprising that Texas actually has the biggest light rail network, like you're Debbie Downer from Amsterdam.
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May 28, 2021 02:11
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Devor posted:Can we have a "green infrastructure chat" thread so that the holier-than-thou one-upsmanship doesn't have to be in this one. Why? Do you prefer living in your bubble of mediocre-to-bad infra design with the comfortable illusion that it's the best we can get? Whenever I share some example of good design from outside America, my hope is that some actual American traffic engineers or policymakers or whoever is able to cause change see this, learn about it, and use their new knowledge to cause a policy change that in a decade or two will make the lives of thousands, or for some cities, millions of people better. Amsterdam in the 70s was much like USA cities now and it managed to fix its poo poo so there's no reason American cities can't. I post stuff not because of a sense of "one-upmanship" as you claim but because I honestly believe America can do better, and will start doing better if we get enough people to realize this. That's also why I like Strong Towns so much. They aren't the stereotypical leftist bicycle hippies, they're a group of people from all across the US political spectrum, and they can explain clearly that the mistakes that were made in US city design causes towns to be financially insolvent, and improving the local economy speaks to much more Americans than bicycle talk. They seem to have found an approach that doesn't scare people away and may actually lead to change.
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May 29, 2021 07:38
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Carbon dioxide posted:Why? Do you prefer living in your bubble of mediocre-to-bad infra design with the comfortable illusion that it's the best we can get? The US is a political mess. Every once in a while, you'll get someone trying to be innovative, but most of the time it's stuff like DeSantis legalizing using hazard lights while driving in the rain.
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May 29, 2021 23:00
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Just when I needed an example of a place in the US getting it right. https://twitter.com/AmericanFietser/status/1399066066593234950 There's a whole thread worth of photos in case you're interested.
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May 31, 2021 07:25
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