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CarForumPoster posted:strongly disagree - Peter principle, increasing responsibilities at the same company doesn't mean much. and if they're a dick like handles employers you can have all the drive in the world and get dick all - if you have spare time to do that, if your drive is all spent on making money so you can eat, welp - same for this one
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May 25, 2021 01:12
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Arcsech posted:- Peter principle, increasing responsibilities at the same company doesn't mean much. and if they're a dick like handles employers you can have all the drive in the world and get dick all When interviewers look at resumes to try to find "aptitude" and "drive" the things I said are things that some hiring managers look for. That promotion history, life circumstances or resumes in general result in unfair distribution of interviews or the best candidate not getting the job is irrelevant to helping goons get computer toucher jobs. Even managers who are aware of those biases still often look for those things.
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May 25, 2021 03:02
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CarForumPoster posted:When interviewers look at resumes to try to find "aptitude" and "drive" the things I said are things that some hiring managers look for. That promotion history, life circumstances or resumes in general result in unfair distribution of interviews or the best candidate not getting the job is irrelevant to helping goons get computer toucher jobs. Even managers who are aware of those biases still often look for those things. sure, that's what people look for when they look for "drive". but it's a lovely way of looking for it. but people still do it because drive is hard to communicate in a resume "drive is hard to communicate in a resume" was the original statement. you disagreed with it
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May 25, 2021 03:09
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that reminds me I should be putting random important sounding words in front of my title every 2 years
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May 25, 2021 03:10
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Arcsech posted:sure, that's what people look for when they look for "drive". but it's a lovely way of looking for it. but people still do it because drive is hard to communicate in a resume The audience the resume is communicating to is the interviewer. If interviewers see a list of easily verified accomplishments and perceive the candidate as potentially driven it has been communicated. It may be that interviewers looking for drive this way is unfair, biased, and/or bad for society. Its not hard to communicate to those unfair biases tho.
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May 25, 2021 03:19
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hobbesmaster posted:that reminds me I should be putting random important sounding words in front of my title every 2 years I am /r 2d20 The Crimson Event Electrical Engineer
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May 25, 2021 03:56
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my girlfriend is considering a jump to management but is worried that doing it without attaining the title of senior engineer first makes it look like she couldn't hack it as an individual contributor me: "you know you can write whatever you want on your resume, right"
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May 25, 2021 04:17
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raminasi posted:me: "you know you can write whatever you want on your resume, right" I think previous employers will give out that information?
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May 25, 2021 05:44
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CarForumPoster posted:The audience the resume is communicating to is the interviewer. If interviewers see a list of easily verified accomplishments and perceive the candidate as potentially driven it has been communicated. It may be that interviewers looking for drive this way is unfair, biased, and/or bad for society. Its not hard to communicate to those unfair biases tho. quote:If you can afford to fit into stereotypes, fitting into stereotypes is easy
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May 25, 2021 08:02
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guess what: this one has a stereotype to fit into, dropout wunderkind (helps a lot to be a white guy)
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May 25, 2021 08:07
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This post is a bit out of left field, but the past page about giving advice to somebody looking to move into programming from outside, and the discussion a few pages back about the pros/cons of profile building got me thinking. First off, thanks to the regulars for shitposting in this thread. I did a career change back in 2013 and this thread was very helpful. I attribute the success of my relocation to the SFBA and in joining the six figgies club to, in part, going back to school (grad school in my case) despite the fact that I could barely afford it, and building a good online profile. If one read the past.. 10-20 pages... it might be hard to draw a line between "these things are not helpful at all" and "you don't need to do these things necessarily to get your foot in the door if you're lucky and do an exhaustive systematic search and resume bomb everyone." From my experience interviewing candidates at 3 different jobs, what ends up getting through the HR / hiring manager filter is like... 95% traditional backgrounds. And this was at startups that weren't particularly competitive. I admit that this could just be the roles I end up interviewing candidates for, which is somewhat of a niche. Aside from the rate of trad/not trad resumes, two of the hiring managers from my last FAANG interview cycle came out and said that my Github account (just some free-time WASM / WebGL projects) got me through their filter. I think it's good advice to tell people that it's possible to apply and get interviews without doing these things, and also to complain about the unfairness of them / scold hiring managers in this thread for caring about these things too much, but these things definitely increase your resume response rate, which is the other side of the "resume bomb" coin. So in a thread that is giving people advice for breaking into the field, it wouldn't be great for people to leave the thread without that impression. If I didn't do these things back in 2013, there's a good chance that it wouldn't have worked out for me I think. edit: to be clear, if you don't have relevant schooling, an online profile can increase your chances a lot; committing to more schooling for a career change is a hard pill to swallow. The Gay Bean fucked around with this message at 09:22 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 09:17
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CarForumPoster posted:strongly disagree
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May 25, 2021 11:30
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toiletbrush posted:Out of the hundreds of CVs I've seen, all of that stuff is pretty standard fodder though. Perhaps I should have said 'hard to get the person screening CVs to acknowledge'. Anyone can spot decent grades or high ranking positions, so a lot of people will bin a CV based on that before they're willing to put the effort into interpreting the slightly more woolly stuff that suggests someone is genuinely interested in solving problems. Def agree. Surprisingly to me, "applied through work at a startup" has become one of the more odd indicators. WaaS has been the source of more "driven to really contribute" applicants. In order it's gone WaaS > LinkedIn > Indeed. Takling to a few other YC company owners they've said the same thing. Though, paradoxically, I hired my best dev through indeed so I still post to all three. If you're hunting for startup jobs, consider WaaS.
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May 25, 2021 14:29
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qirex posted:someone else on that call asked me about my undergrad classes In my mid thirties with 10 years experience and a degree from one of the best unis in the country I got rejected from a job at a consultancy place in Edinburgh because my grades from High School weren't good enough. 'We only higher straight A's!' Recruiters phone me about jobs in that place every month now so I'm forced to tell them that my High School grades have not improved in the interim.
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May 25, 2021 14:40
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i was recently promoted from senior data eng to senior manager, eng. is my resume now poisoned forever if i want to keep being an individual contributor?
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May 25, 2021 16:26
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Aramoro posted:In my mid thirties with 10 years experience and a degree from one of the best unis in the country I got rejected from a job at a consultancy place in Edinburgh because my grades from High School weren't good enough. 'We only higher straight A's!' This is class-based profiling with 99% certainty Corla Plankun posted:i was recently promoted from senior data eng to senior manager, eng. is my resume now poisoned forever if i want to keep being an individual contributor? Not if you don't list it
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May 25, 2021 16:46
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Aramoro posted:I got rejected from a job at a consultancy place in Edinburgh because my grades from High School weren't good enough. 'We only higher straight A's!' tiny lol (i kid, i kid) quote:I think it's good advice to tell people that it's possible to apply and get interviews without doing these things, and also to complain about the unfairness of them / scold hiring managers in this thread for caring about these things too much, but these things definitely increase your resume response rate, which is the other side of the "resume bomb" coin. So in a thread that is giving people advice for breaking into the field, it wouldn't be great for people to leave the thread without that impression. If I didn't do these things back in 2013, there's a good chance that it wouldn't have worked out for me I think. I think it's really good to yell at people who are hiring (who are reading this thread, of which i was one for a good chunk of last year) to be aware of these biases and to do their best to undo them, and that they might be wasting people's time with these semiarbitrary shibboleths Share Bear fucked around with this message at 17:26 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 17:23
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the root cause of the problem is noone trusts anyone for excellent reasons
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May 25, 2021 17:27
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lol at limiting your hiring pool to people who were ok at school when they were children
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May 25, 2021 17:35
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Corla Plankun posted:i was recently promoted from senior data eng to senior manager, eng. is my resume now poisoned forever if i want to keep being an individual contributor? senior data eng lead you mean! PokeJoe posted:lol at limiting your hiring pool to people who were ok at school when they were children it's not about the grades but which school and where it's located
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May 25, 2021 17:40
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PokeJoe posted:lol at limiting your hiring pool to people who were ok at school when they were children Boiled Water posted:it's not about the grades but which school and where it's located To be more explicit about what I was implying earlier, rich kids go to private academies where you have access to personal tutors and standardized test prep and you basically have to shiv a teacher to not get the highest marks. Effort and consequences are for the hoi polloi
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May 25, 2021 17:56
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private k-12 schools are uniformly this weird mix of rich grade-a fuckups, rich kids who actually wanna study, and poor kids in on the scholarship. like, your median 14-year-old cocaine addict is a private school freshman but this is also east coast. stanford's top few intake schools are actually ostensibly public, it's just that the housing prices are like 2.5 million to get in the school district. compare to the measly 50k/year to pay for andover or 60k/year to pay for choate ('measly' lol) all those ostensibly-public schools, in turn, have suicide rates comparable to top gaokao or suneung studiers bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 18:26 on May 25, 2021 |
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May 25, 2021 18:20
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I'm pretty sure some of the straight A students at my [white, rich] public high school would have been C- students if it wasn't for massive amounts of private tutoring, which I'm assuming continued once they got into college
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May 25, 2021 18:51
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Corla Plankun posted:i was recently promoted from senior data eng to senior manager, eng. is my resume now poisoned forever if i want to keep being an individual contributor? I swapped my manager title with one that used "lead" every place there used to be manager or manage.
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May 26, 2021 02:17
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qirex posted:I'm pretty sure some of the straight A students at my [white, rich] public high school would have been C- students if it wasn't for massive amounts of private tutoring, which I'm assuming continued once they got into college Where I grew up there were schools you could have on your CV/uni application that were basically a cheat code for passing screening regardless of your grades, and others where it was the literal opposite, again totally based on 'do you have to be rich to go there'.
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May 26, 2021 09:29
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Aramoro posted:'We only higher straight A's!' hmm i wonder why you were rejected
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May 26, 2021 10:30
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Gentle Autist posted:hmm i wonder why you were rejected Impossible to say! In my defence I was thinking about our high school exams which were called Highers.
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May 26, 2021 11:35
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toiletbrush posted:Private tutoring is only like the very tip of the iceberg when it comes to students at white, rich schools having a massive grades advantage, too. there's one of those schools [only $51k/year!] near where I grew up, we used to avoid parties with those kids since they were full of sociopathic cokeheads you had to actually appear to do the work at my school, a parent famously sued one of the teachers for giving her kid a B and lost. this was also before a lot of the modern scams like fake learning disabilities had really taken off. I had an old roommate who was in law school and clearly not cut out for it but her parents got her unlimited time on exams and a ton of tutoring so it's possible she passed but there's no way she would have cut it after that
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May 26, 2021 15:55
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what is waas?
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May 28, 2021 02:22
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Achmed Jones posted:what is waas? work at a startup
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May 28, 2021 03:08
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Achmed Jones posted:what is waas? was not was. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgiDcJi534Y
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May 28, 2021 03:14
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I hate my boss. I hate the company I work for. I want out. ASAP. I’m gonna burn out in a couple weeks if I continue working the pace I’m working. I had an interview recently and am hopeful that an offer is coming soon. it’s not that the job would be good, I’m just trying to leave my bad situation. what’s the timeline of when to submit my 2 weeks notice? what questions are typically asked in an exit interview? how should I answer questions in my exit interview like “do I have a job offer” or “what company are you going to work for”?
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May 28, 2021 04:25
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Put in your notice once you've signed the offer and have a confirmed start date. You don't have to answer any questions in an exit interview. What are they gonna do, fire you?
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May 28, 2021 04:28
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once, at a truly obnoxiously bad 50-peep dealio, i just brought some mochi to the exit interview, ate it w/o sharing, and just replied over and over "whatchagonnado, fire me?" to the exit interview bridges burned w management. but those peeps didnt know poo poo about poo poo anyways and everything fell apart p soon after
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May 28, 2021 04:39
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Generally it's not wise to burn bridges but exit interviews are as low stakes as it gets. Answer what you want, anything you want to keep to yourself you just say "I will not disclose that information"
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May 28, 2021 04:44
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the thing about the exit interview is that the hr person giving it doesn't actually want to be there any more than you do. they're just going to write down whatever you say and pass it to some higher manager who will ignore it. the entire process is very perfunctory.
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May 28, 2021 05:14
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Last exit interview I did the HR rep kept talking over me every time I began to answer a question then would explain to me why my answers were wrong.
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May 28, 2021 05:15
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raminasi posted:the thing about the exit interview is that the hr person giving it doesn't actually want to be there any more than you do. they're just going to write down whatever you say and pass it to some higher manager who will ignore it. the entire process is very perfunctory. this doesnt happen at a 50 peep corp
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May 28, 2021 05:16
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Steve Jorbs posted:Last exit interview I did the HR rep kept talking over me every time I began to answer a question then would explain to me why my answers were wrong. wow, why'd you leave that place?
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May 28, 2021 05:57
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Don't bother, his answer will be wrong anyway.
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May 28, 2021 06:46
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