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looking forward to never seeing any followup on the Rockslide situation at all
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May 27, 2021 22:22
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god help the 2 gorgon fans out there though at least he went out like a champ. rockslide went through the loving wringer Quotey fucked around with this message at 23:42 on May 27, 2021 |
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May 27, 2021 23:32
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they never even showed how gorgon came back different.
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May 28, 2021 00:01
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yeah as far as i can tell, the entirety of attention paid to gorgon post swords is in the comic where rockslide is ressed (X-Factor #5).  rockslide knocks prestige into a wall and chats with people a little at the start, explaining the otherworld fuckups. neither have appeared after this ... hey, did they ever bring back the mutant made out of gas? i just started reading morrison's run and he dies during QQ's bullshit. i imagine you do it the same way as orphan-maker, just suit him up before you activate the x-gene or whatever Quotey fucked around with this message at 02:13 on May 28, 2021 |
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May 28, 2021 02:10
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Blockhouse posted:looking forward to never seeing any followup on the Rockslide situation at all Possible silver lining: maybe a future writer forgets his new status quo and my boy can come back gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i'm not sure why, but mystique obviously flubbed that mission on purpose. why else would she wait around and watch while they brought nimrod online? I don't know about intentional flubbing but yeah that whole thing reeked of "well we needed her to stand around and listen to exposition because the plot needed to happen." I mean drat if it's a black hole bomb why wait, hell why even put a timer on it, have someone walk through the portal, throw it like a frag grenade and then walk back through. Plant it in a bathroom stall and leave. Send a Madrox with it strapped to his chest. So many other solutions to "stop Nimrod from coming online" than "wait for Nimrod to come online"
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May 28, 2021 02:39
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Like I said earlier, if it turns out Nimrod is just as inevitable as Sentinels then now seems like a really fortuitous time for it to happen, relatively speaking.
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May 28, 2021 02:53
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Jonathan Hickman and Tini Howard seem to both still be really important for planning what happens in future X-Books and the stuff with Rockslide and Gorgon's death happened in an event they did, and involves Otherworld and Excalibur is still going, so I'm guessing that becomes important too. I mean, how long did it take for the stuff with Mystique and Destiny to get brought up again? Hickman does a lot of stuff where he sets things up for a much later pull off. I'm waiting for Broo being king of the Brood to become relevant again.
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May 28, 2021 03:22
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Skwirl posted:I'm waiting for Broo being king of the Brood to become relevant again. Y'know where that would have been played out really well? At the end of X of Swords. Instead of some generic alien species introduced to be a Chekov's Gun/Deus Ex Machina thing, they could have just used the brood.
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May 28, 2021 13:43
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Quotey posted:god help the 2 gorgon fans out there I think one of those two Gorgon fans is Hickman himself so I'm sure there will be an issue focues on whatever is going on with him now.
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May 28, 2021 14:23
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Don't forget that half of this new Nimrod was just dumped into a singularity. Looking back to PoX, it's hard to see that as coincidental.
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May 28, 2021 20:00
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I think I read it wrong. Does Mystique only know who Nimrod is because of her wife?
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May 28, 2021 22:25
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nunsexmonkrock posted:I think I read it wrong. Does Mystique only know who Nimrod is because of her wife? No, there's been a Nimrod before. Big part of the Claremont books. I don't remember what happened to that one though.
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May 29, 2021 00:22
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Skwirl posted:No, there's been a Nimrod before. Big part of the Claremont books. I don't remember what happened to that one though. It's complicated. There have been a few versions of Nimrod. The last one X-Force killed. The original Claremont one killed itself because it figured it became a mutant, then it went through the Siege Perilous.
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May 29, 2021 00:33
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Was Nimrod the metal looking one that messed with Hope and Danger during the Gillen / AvX run or am I thinking of something else.
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May 29, 2021 02:36
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Was Nimrod the metal looking one that messed with Hope and Danger during the Gillen / AvX run or am I thinking of something else. That was an alien robot whose name is can't remember. Nimrod mostly looks like how he looks now.
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May 29, 2021 02:53
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I don't think anyone itt was being ableist about Karma's leg but it absolutely was a conscious choice by the writer of the book. https://twitter.com/definitelyvita/status/1398299313290240010?s=19
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May 29, 2021 03:47
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Ehhhh. You can make valid cases for or against how a fictional character would behave in a case like this...but, at the end of the day, this is a fake magic world where someone who lost their leg can just fake magically get a new leg. There's a limit to just how much real world sensibilities or tactfulness applies here, and making it seem like Karma keeping her prosthetic is some sort of profound statement for disability agency is a bit much. I dunno. Other peoples' mileage will vary here, which is totally fine.
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May 29, 2021 04:20
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Look everybody likes Karma's shiny leg!
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May 29, 2021 04:51
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BrianWilly posted:Ehhhh. I hope they washed it off at least.
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May 29, 2021 05:25
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The Hannibal-bot in Gillen's run was named Unit and I hope he comes back some day. I'm sure in a lot of writer's hands he'd really just be a cheap knock-off Hannibal but Gillen was good at writing that kind of character and it was a fun wild-card. Anyway the Nimrod issues in Claremont's run were without exception complete bangers and probably Claremont's best extended action set-pieces. I actually forgot if Nimrod ever met/fought Mystique-- I know it was involved with a Hellfire Club teamup and I'm 80% sure it fought Freedom Force but I can't remember if Mystique was actually present. I'll check in a minute. Edit: Well! In Claremont's run at least it appears that Mystique never met Nimrod. I was mixing up two big fight scenes in which the X-Men team up with a bad-guy group that gets wrecked. Harry Leland of the Hellfire Club dies of a heart attack while exerting himself to stop Nimrod, and Stonewall of Freedom Force gets killed by the Reavers (Destiny also dies in that fight, assassinated by Legion which I don't think ever gets totally explained). If Mystique met a Nimrod during the 90s or aughts or teens I'd love to hear about it though! How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 15:44 on May 29, 2021 |
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May 29, 2021 15:39
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i should probably read those. i should probably get the omnibusses if they're getting a reprint or still in actually
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May 29, 2021 18:42
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Quotey posted:i should probably read those. i should probably get the omnibusses if they're getting a reprint or still in actually I'm pretty sure all of Claremont's Uncanny is on Unlimited and the other X-Books might have some gaps the crossover issues should all be there.
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May 29, 2021 18:54
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How Wonderful! posted:The Hannibal-bot in Gillen's run was named Unit and I hope he comes back some day. I'm sure in a lot of writer's hands he'd really just be a cheap knock-off Hannibal but Gillen was good at writing that kind of character and it was a fun wild-card. a character named stonewall dying at the same time as destiny is way too on the nose
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May 29, 2021 23:01
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How Wonderful! posted:(Destiny also dies in that fight, assassinated by Legion which I don't think ever gets totally explained). In X-Factor 109, there's a one liner from David to Mystique ("She said you'd come") and a hallucination/psychic thing with David and Destiny that very VAGUELY implies that Destiny purposely died to set in motion David's actions that would "test reality itself." That would be... the Age of Apocalypse. I wonder if there's better stuff in the Spurrier Legacy things, but I've never read that. I hit my garbage LCS today and sure enough they were out of X-Men #20. Frustrated, I... found it other methods. (I'll buy it; I just couldn't wait longer to actually read it). It was good and the big reveal got me excited. I think it's heavily implied that Moira having Destiny's diaries means X and Mags knew Mystique would fail. Also: that reveal makes me wonder if it took Moira until life 10 to get her hands on them. I'm obsessed with the line in HoXPoX as she's born into 10 where she says she's going to change the rules. Getting Destiny's diaries certainly could be that. Again: the Hunt For Xavier reveal of the Diaries is BAD and what Davis does with that after is also BAD. It's such a good idea that I trust Hickman actually plays with it well. I loved Way of X #2. I also think that the Onslaught reference is a red herring just like Legion was at the end of #1. Hellions #11 continued the best book currently being published. Post-dental surgery Sinister? The Best Sinister.
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May 30, 2021 00:46
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I don't remember Destiny coming up in the Spurrier Legacy book, but I haven't read it since it came out. You should read those though, they're really good.
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May 30, 2021 00:53
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Skwirl posted:I don't remember Destiny coming up in the Spurrier Legacy book, but I haven't read it since it came out. You should read those though, they're really good. Too busy reading... Ages of Apocalypse. gently caress. The next thing on our list is Dream's End and Eve of Destruction. It's the only part of the 2nd Claremont run on our list. Our rule is only to read the crossovers/events and that probably means skipping the entirety of the Morrison and Casey runs. The next major thing after those is... House of M.
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May 30, 2021 01:18
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BrianWilly posted:Ehhhh. I think another element with comic books, especially long running, monthly, corporate produced comic books, that frequently do things like color a character's skin or costume wrong and sometimes have to come up with post-justifications like how Wolverine is able to ressurect and get adamantium again, is that you just can't assume that something like that is an intentional, thoughtful choice without commenting on it. There is not enough consistency in Marvel comics as a whole, X-Men comics in particular, and New Mutants as a title that has been written by multiple creators throughout the years to make someone go "THAT HAS TO HAVE BEEN DONE INTENTIONALLY" any more than you can assume that Roberto turning lighter skinned sometimes is a result of using his powers too hard, or whatever
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May 30, 2021 01:20
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I think with this era of X-Men you can assume almost everything is intentional, including PoCs having lighter skin (that last one is because Marvel is run by a bunch of loving racists).
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May 30, 2021 02:19
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Skwirl posted:I think with this era of X-Men you can assume almost everything is intentional, including PoCs having lighter skin (that last one is because Marvel is run by a bunch of loving racists).
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May 30, 2021 02:31
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Edge & Christian posted:Is the assumption here that they strictly hire loving racist colorists/flatters/assistant editors top to bottom, or is the assumption that Ike Perlmutter and CB Cebulski or whoever the loving racist higher-ups are do surprise inspections to go YOU DEBLACKIFY THESE BACKGROUND CHARACTERS IMMEDIATELY? Well, either they aren't telling the colorists that they're coloring characters wrong or they are telling colorists to use lighter tones for the POC characters, it's the editors faults and it's racist. Like, seriously, how are these supposed to be the same character?   And it's something that people have been bringing up for years so either editorial doesn't care or they are doing it on purpose and neither of those are good reasons for it to keep happening. Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 02:41 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 02:34
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It absolutely happens too often and it absolutely is a problem, I'm not arguing either of those. It was the intentionality I was questioning, mainly because if it was some sort of deliberate editorial mandate you would think it would happen consistently and not just isolated pages/panels. Intent doesn't change impact, I'm not saying it doesn't suck, but you were the one ascribing deliberate and malicious intent to what I assume is a result of a bunch of underpaid people trying to keep up with the assembly line process of the Big Two release schedule. This exact conversation is about a plethora of small details that are consistently hosed up, and skin color is exponentially more important than costume designs, misplaced word balloons, continuity nitpicks, etc. But all of them together add up to "making a lot of mistakes" not "intentionally being loving racist", which was the thing I was questioning.
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May 30, 2021 03:26
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How can drawing Storm as a young white woman be anything but a mistake? The biggest loving racist editor on Earth isn't going to have someone do something that blatant.
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May 30, 2021 03:29
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Matteo Lolli (the artist for that panel) really seems incapable of drawing women who look over the age of 22 or so. Federico Blee (the colorist for the issue) was clearly trying to do some sort of "sunset pallete" for the page the panel was pulled from, and did not do a very good job of it, particularly in terms of lighting black skin, which is a problem across literally the whole of American media. Look at the difference between these three pages by the same art team from the same issue (Marauders #1)    It's a bad coloring job (on the middle page for sure, the other two are workmanlike but fine), I wish someone in the production process took the time to address it, but I have a hard time buying that this was a deliberate and intentional attempt at erasure or whitewashing or racism. Which again, does not negate the end result, its impact, or the sort of systems in place that make it so that people shrug their shoulders and just keep churning the books out are okay. This is not the same as "assuming everything is intentional because they're loving racists", which honestly would be an easier scenario because you can just write off everyone involved as a bunch of loving racists.
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May 30, 2021 03:47
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What issue is that from? The last issue I read with Storm in it was Marauders #20, coloring by Edgar Delgado & Chris Sotomayor, and she looked plenty black. However I know what you mean about the whitewashing problem-- I notice it a lot with Dani Moonstar and M too, sometimes Sunspot. I think the issue though is less colorists going "ha ha ha, I'll show them all. I'll turn Bishop into a noble Caucasian" and more "ugh if I just lighten up Storm's face here I won't have to rethink the color of the sunset" which is of course also a symptom of darker skin tones being devalued and the default aesthetic lessons about color, palette, etc.. privileging lighter skin tones. Is that something an editor should step in about? Ideally yeah but it's not a problem that editors create-- that's a problem that's perpetuated by art programs, by artists choosing expedience over learning how to do right by darker-skinned characters, and ultimately by a culture that just does not do a very good job of teaching people to stop and ask themselves if stuff they are doing might be racist or not. I would put money on the colorist not thinking "how can I make Storm white" but rather "how can I make Storm look better in this panel" in such a way that it subconsciously led them, as the end-product of a hundred little white-centric pushes and nudges of acculturation and conditioning, towards making her look whiter. Edit: E&C answered some of this while I was typing. Sorry! How Wonderful! fucked around with this message at 04:00 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 03:50
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Do big two comics even have editors in that sense anymore?
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May 30, 2021 03:55
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That Storm panel has been thrown about a lot without context for a couple of years now. It's clearly not an intentional result given the rest of the issue. But it certainly represents a lack of understanding in the industry on how to consistently and accurately color POC in different lighting situations. It also just shows the general inconsistencies in coloring even Ororo, arguably the most visible (in sales) black character in comics history. Her own color has never been stable, which is a sign of both publishing limitations as well as artistic choices. In 2021 we should be past this conversation but we aren't so that says a lot. E: As always, HW expressed great thought on this. danbanana fucked around with this message at 04:05 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 04:02
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How Wonderful! posted:. The second thing is just as racist as the first. Racism isn't just people thinking "oh yeah, that'll show the darkies" it's a systemic issue and by discounting things like this people are participating and enabling it. Edit: it's obviously not an issue we're gonna fix in this thread so have a palette cleanser. https://twitter.com/ComicsXF/status/999378905214615552?s=19 Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 04:32 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 04:29
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Skwirl posted:The second thing is just as racist as the first. I wasn't suggesting otherwise?
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May 30, 2021 04:47
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Skwirl posted:Well, either they aren't telling the colorists that they're coloring characters wrong or they are telling colorists to use lighter tones for the POC characters, it's the editors faults and it's racist. There is a consistent issue with artists not understanding how light and dark skin interact. Which is due to racism, yes. But the institutional kind and not (necessarily) the overt, deliberate kind.
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May 30, 2021 12:08
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Oh, I wasn't ready for drunken Kurt and Nanny. Hellions continues to be one of my favorites.
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