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Eric the Mauve posted:You do know that the fact you disclosed your current salary changes everything, right? Yeah all of the advice people offered here was based on assuming you didn't disclose your current salary. No wonder they were baffled as to why you gave a 200k ultimatum (though they should still stop being goddamn cheapskates).
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May 27, 2021 16:57
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Managed to move them some more even though they said it was impossible. It's doubly "impossible" now, but I will take this as a win. Now I just want them to get an acceptable contract written up quickly so I can let my current employer know. It was probably a mistake to open negotiations with my current employer before I was ready to sign somewhere else, but I felt like I needed the added security of a raise to have the guts to continue negotiations with the new place. My current employer wants my word that I will stay before they formally give me the raise even though I have their promise in writing, so they're bugging me. I am saying that I am taking some time to consider the offers I have received, but they don't want me using their raise in negotiations with the other company, and to let them know who the other party is. I have told them I won't be sharing either parties information to the other until it becomes relevant and they have nothing to worry about, which is true because their raise couldn't really match the other party to begin with. Anyway, the mess I made for myself aside, this was a success. Almost 24% up.
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May 27, 2021 21:24
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thotsky posted:Managed to move them some more even though they said it was impossible. It's doubly "impossible" now, but I will take this as a win. Now I just want them to get an acceptable contract written up quickly so I can let my current employer know.  and grats on the new gig!
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May 27, 2021 21:49
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Seems that many employers are reacting to the Colorado equal pay law by not accepting Colorado applicants. https://www.9news.com/article/news/investigations/job-posting-labor-laws/73-7f2ac237-06fe-4353-8318-00a4b52d80bc
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May 28, 2021 18:24
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Javes posted:Seems that many employers are reacting to the Colorado equal pay law by not accepting Colorado applicants. Time to make it a federal law. 
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May 28, 2021 18:30
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I sent a counter offer on monday and heard back from my point of contact right away who said he would see what he could do, but that's the last I've heard. Should I just sit tight? My offer letter gave me nearly a month to decide, so it doesn't seem like I'm on the clock or anything
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May 28, 2021 19:02
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dhamster posted:I sent a counter offer on monday and heard back from my point of contact right away who said he would see what he could do, but that's the last I've heard. Should I just sit tight? My offer letter gave me nearly a month to decide, so it doesn't seem like I'm on the clock or anything After recently finishing negotiations, I feel pretty confident that they're either waiting for approval, talking to other candidates still, or are trying to see if you break. I just waited and mostly got what I wanted. Wait it out imo.
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May 28, 2021 19:05
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dhamster posted:I sent a counter offer on monday and heard back from my point of contact right away who said he would see what he could do, but that's the last I've heard. Should I just sit tight? My offer letter gave me nearly a month to decide, so it doesn't seem like I'm on the clock or anything There's nothing wrong with sending an email after a week asking for an update.
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May 29, 2021 06:22
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Javes posted:Seems that many employers are reacting to the Colorado equal pay law by not accepting Colorado applicants. I wonder if this counts as discrimination. Also these companies are hosed if any employee thats already remote moves to colorado while already being employed.
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May 29, 2021 18:25
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I’m in a weird spot for negotiation and would appreciate some insight from the thread. I work in a moderately niche healthcare support field. I worked at a large campus full time for $63k ($30/hr) and tried to go part time there. They didn’t bite, so I left for a very similar role with part time hours for $55k ($44/hr). I’ve worked there for about a year and a half, can’t stand my manager but am able to tough it out. Both positions are salaried/exempt, no meaningful bonuses, standard formula vacation hours. Colleague from the first place contacted me for a flex hours full time opening that is a promotion from my position (ie analyst 2 vs analyst 1). Interviewed right away and they’re having hr extend an offer in the coming week. The manager at the first place is aware of what I make at my current job from when I left. I doubt they will offer the equivalent hourly rate, but I do really want this job and am willing to entertain a slightly lower per hour rate. I think I have a lot of ability to negotiate up- they know the quality of my work, I’m already pretty integrated into the support structure, and I walk through the door being useful rather than training for 6+ months. How should I approach negotiations coming from part time? My rates for benefits will be significantly better, but I feel like I shouldn’t undercut myself there.
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May 29, 2021 19:25
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BadSamaritan posted:I’m in a weird spot for negotiation and would appreciate some insight from the thread. First of all, this is why you should try to not disclose what your new salary is when resigning. (Don’t know how your old manager knows, not insinuating you spilled the beans.) Second, the good thing about them having this knowledge is that it puts a floor under their offer. They know they have to match + say 5%. Of course, this is also a negative. I would approach this like any other negotiation. Focus on the value you add, and let it be known between the lines that you expect a raise to change positions. Finally, it’s not in the hiring manager’s best interest to get you as cheaply as possible, it’s in his or her best interest to make the budget look good while making you happy enough to be retained. It’s not the manager’s money (although I’ve certainly met some that acted that way.)
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May 29, 2021 19:37
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TheParadigm posted:I wonder if this counts as discrimination. It does not, and they would just terminate them. This is why it needs to be a federal law.
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May 29, 2021 20:02
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How does a person who is an employee of Company A already moving to Colorado at all impact their obligations under Colorado law to disclose salary? The person has the job already.
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May 30, 2021 02:40
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:How does a person who is an employee of Company A already moving to Colorado at all impact their obligations under Colorado law to disclose salary? Based on the wording in the article the company is obligated to post the range because they have an employee in the state. The obvious solution is to tell employees they can't work remote from Colorado as there's no requirement to allow employees to work from any state.
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May 30, 2021 04:05
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:How does a person who is an employee of Company A already moving to Colorado at all impact their obligations under Colorado law to disclose salary? I've seen certain postings (note: I'm not in, nor was I looking for jobs in, Colorado) where the range is disclosed but is presented such as to be wholly useless; the example that sticks in my mind is a salary range for an in-house attorney position being "$45,000-$210,000." Obviously speculating, but it's entirely possible that this is a result of something like that happening.
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May 31, 2021 02:19
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:How does a person who is an employee of Company A already moving to Colorado at all impact their obligations under Colorado law to disclose salary? The law does have a promote from within clause, actually: Any company that has at least one employee within colorado also has to disclose and inform the employee of promotion opportunities within the company. So this is big because if, say, a Senior Position on Prexisting Employee At Company A's team the employee would have to have a chance to apply for it. and the company would have to disclose the range and benefits up front. So if that team's lead gets an extra 10k of dosh and stock options... gotta disclose it. The total stinger part of the EWEPA act is that the whole 'we only do outside hires so people on staff stay where they are and never ask for more' loop is also broken. (From what I understand its worded fairly reasonably; promotions from within aren't -guaranteed-, only they be -allowed to compete-; as in it doesn't force inside hires, it does force disclosure of position openings tho) Obviously this is a big deal for pay discussions b/c nothing stops a colorado employee from talking to other people about it. I don't know offhand if the law states that 'only the CO employee has to be informed' or 'as long as they have one Co employee they have to do it for everyone'.
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May 31, 2021 04:56
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Welp got a new job after a couple months of searching. I got a huge pay increase out of it without sacrificing vacation time. I tended to cave on giving a number first but literally drawing a line in the sand about vacation and it all worked out in the end. I'm finally getting paid what I'm worth in the market. Thank you to everyone in this thread. I really appreciate that this thread exists and that all of you are helping me and other goons get what we deserve.
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May 31, 2021 05:26
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TheParadigm posted:The law does have a promote from within clause, actually: Any company that has at least one employee within colorado also has to disclose and inform the employee of promotion opportunities within the company. I’ve worked in several companies (EU so probably not comparable at all) where the internal policy was to open any applications to internal first and only of you couldn’t find a suitable internal promotion you were allowed to open it for external candidates. It surely helps with regards to transparency. Every hiring manager would inform their team that they were hiring but it certainly wasn’t guaranteeing internal preference. It wasn’t too hard to work around if you wanted to. Just turn down internal candidates on arbitrary stuff. Most hiring managers didn’t care who filled the seat, as long as they were a good match. It did take hiring more time consuming when you were looking for very specific profiles that were unlikely to already be in house.
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May 31, 2021 13:21
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Thanks to this thread I was able to get a 21% raise just by asking (and by quantifying why my current pay was under market rate for what I do and the value I bring to the company).
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May 31, 2021 20:55
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Acer Pilot posted:After recently finishing negotiations, I feel pretty confident that they're either waiting for approval, talking to other candidates still, or are trying to see if you break. I just waited and mostly got what I wanted. Wait it out imo. Starting to sweat a bit tbh, even though the stakes are pretty low-- I technically have until the end of this month to give them a decision, and my start date is in September. I might check in with them by the end of the week, I sent my counter at the beginning of last week. On the other hand, this place has operated at a very slow pace during this process, my first preliminary conversation about this position took place in mid February.
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Jun 1, 2021 18:28
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Don’t forget the holiday, if a crucial person took a few days off that might grind the whole thing to a halt. Just a random thought.
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Jun 1, 2021 18:49
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Jesus Christ the place I am about to sign with are dragging their feet so badly. I've negotiated a number of changes to the contract but every email exchange takes like a day and a half, and they say they'll update the contract but only update like half of the things we settled on and send it back for signing, or misunderstand pretty simple requests for information and give me an answer to something else entirely. It's very annoying and stressful.
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Jun 2, 2021 14:05
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Do you really want to work for a place that incompetent?
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Jun 2, 2021 14:30
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I have it on good authority that they'll mostly leave me alone, the pay is good, and the other devs are mostly very skilled and nice, so if I get the dumb IP protection stuff dropped from the contract I do want to work there. It is, however, not giving me the best first impression of their off-site HR.
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Jun 2, 2021 14:37
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They actually came back with $200k even knowing I earn far less than that now, lol! Take that negotiation thread, sometimes it pays to chop yourself off at the knees!
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Jun 2, 2021 17:12
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stellers bae posted:They actually came back with $200k even knowing I earn far less than that now, lol! Take that negotiation thread, sometimes it pays to chop yourself off at the knees! Congrats! Succeeded in spite of yourself.
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Jun 2, 2021 18:03
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stellers bae posted:They actually came back with $200k even knowing I earn far less than that now, lol! Take that negotiation thread, sometimes it pays to chop yourself off at the knees! Big congrats, another thread success story! Chiasmus posted:Congrats! Succeeded in spite of yourself. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > The Negotiation Thread: How to Succeed in Spite of Yourself
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Jun 2, 2021 18:27
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Guinness posted:Big congrats, another thread success story!
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Jun 2, 2021 18:54
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Guinness posted:Big congrats, another thread success story!
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Jun 2, 2021 18:55
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stellers bae posted:They actually came back with $200k even knowing I earn far less than that now, lol! Take that negotiation thread, sometimes it pays to chop yourself off at the knees! Congrats, happy it worked out for you!
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Jun 2, 2021 19:43
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Succes is awesome! And also remember, even if they can see you're underpaid, they will want to pay you at market rate to make sure you don't leave immediately. Recruiting and training is expensive, and giving you a few thousand extra is usually worth it for them in the long run. Of course, not all companies see the wisdom in this.
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Jun 2, 2021 20:18
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Chiasmus posted:Congrats! Succeeded in spite of yourself. I feel like this describes my last negotiation too  Guinness posted:Big congrats, another thread success story!
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Jun 2, 2021 20:19
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BonHair posted:Succes is awesome! And also remember, even if they can see you're underpaid, they will want to pay you at market rate to make sure you don't leave immediately. Recruiting and training is expensive, and giving you a few thousand extra is usually worth it for them in the long run. Of course, not all companies see the wisdom in this. Ahhhh, I see now where my current (new) employer offset the cost of relocating me . . . .
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Jun 2, 2021 20:20
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Guinness posted:Big congrats, another thread success story!
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Jun 2, 2021 20:44
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The important takeaway here is the OP got away with the blunder of disclosing his current salary because he thereafter held firm, without talking himself into a pretzel trying to justify it, saying "I need $200K to make this work," full stop. Yes, you know my current salary but it's not relevant, I'm worth this much money to you in this role and we both know it.
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Jun 2, 2021 20:54
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Eric the Mauve posted:The important takeaway here is the OP got away with the blunder of disclosing his current salary because he thereafter held firm, without talking himself into a pretzel trying to justify it, saying "I need $200K to make this work," full stop. Yes, you know my current salary but it's not relevant, I'm worth this much money to you in this role and we both know it. OP agrees! Thanks for the confidence booster - amazing I could still say that, and have it work, after they could already see my cards.
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Jun 2, 2021 21:27
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I'm not a superb or practiced negotiator, but my off the cuff reaction to that is: "Thats the power of being their #1 (or last standing #1) pick!"
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Jun 2, 2021 22:16
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TheParadigm posted:I'm not a superb or practiced negotiator, but my off the cuff reaction to that is: Yup, a lovely BATNA works both ways. Good job goon!
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Jun 2, 2021 22:34
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Negoontiation thread, I could use a pointer maybe. I got an offer for a job that I would like to do. It is a significant pay bump. Benefits, team culture, the stuff I'd do, hybrid arrangement in mid-September (tolerable, but doable). I'd happily say yes to it. Benefits line up nicely with where I'm at. My current role has a pretty good annual bonus that paid out even during 'rona. I'd be leaving halfway through the year, so I'd be forfeiting a good chunk of change. I asked %newplace% about the possibility of a sign-on bonus - they said they don't do it for anyone. %newjob% gives 35 days PTO (yeah, it includes sick days/bereavement/etc.) which does beat out my current 20 days. Also, it's not the dinosauric bureaucracy and set-up-to-fail situation that I'm in - last man standing, everyone else in my team quit. Help is on the way in the form of a 3-month contractor but nothing on a permanent fill. Their BATNA: they go to the next candidate down the line My BATNA: If I pass, I'll still be in my current situation, open to being hired elsewhere or trying to transfer internally I'm about 70% leaning towards taking the offer - is there anything else I should be angling for here? I don't think they'd give more PTO since they're way above average for a US employer. edit: BTW, the OP speaks truth, way early in the process they asked my expectations, and I basically had this happen [img]https://i.imgur.com/AgrHXMa.png[/timg] The offer is $10k over the top end, heck yes MJP fucked around with this message at 22:42 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 22:31
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MJP posted:Negoontiation thread, I could use a pointer maybe. Maybe you can couch the sign-on bonus in other terms that are more palatable to %newjob%. Maybe call it a professional development budget or a home office budget?
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Jun 3, 2021 22:45
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