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Again. You goons are missing the point. if you want to play Proxies thats cool and dandy. But if its a permanent or long going playstyle then gently caress you find something else to substitute. How many times do I need to say this. And why is this not understood. Heath posted:Are you going to ask me, or are you going to call me a liar, tell me to gently caress off, and be aggro about a game where you're pretending to be a wizard? No I am calling you a liar. You can think however you want to think. But I made myself absolutely clear since the last page. Its you who wants to think the way you do. As far as I have posted I feel I am clear. People just dont like spending money when there are 2-20 dollar subsitutes. I get it. There are cards that are 150 dollars that I want. But you dont see me printing something from office max and playing it. I still play the commander deck as I play it. Sometimes I win, and sometimes I lose. The bottom line is that I play with friends and I have fun. I called you a liar because I know deep down inside I know you have spent money in this game and I know it makes you mad when an office max print gets played. Katamari Democracy fucked around with this message at 07:42 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 07:36
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I've personally played a lot of webcam games with berenzen, and enjoyed fighting against his best turbo-stax deck full of proxies, he's a good guy with a good attitude, and a very good player. I'd also love to sit at a table with Heath, but there's not a chance in hell I'd play a game with someone acting like Katamari. He seems like the kind of guy who cheats at hopscotch and hide-and-seek.
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May 30, 2021 07:38
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Because people like playing the game, and demanding people to commit to spending literal thousands of dollars that they might not be able to afford, all in order to engage in the format in a way that they want to play is incredibly elitist and gatekeeping.
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May 30, 2021 07:42
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I mean come someone PM me the MTG commander goon discord? Im not really an rear end in a top hat.
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May 30, 2021 07:45
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berenzen posted:Because people like playing the game, and demanding people to commit to spending literal thousands of dollars that they might not be able to afford, all in order to engage in the format in a way that they want to play is incredibly elitist and gatekeeping. If I came across as this. I do apologize. But you better understand if I pay money for a card that is like 30 bucks and I see someone play the same card that is fake and costs 10 cents. Im gonna be upset. I never said anything about a thousand dollar card. So thats on you. And from the years I have played commander I never seen such a thing. But If I play with you a lot and I see you not buying upgrades in a playgroup. Sorry but you are a piece of poo poo. A thousand dollar card is one thing. But 20 dollars is another.
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May 30, 2021 07:49
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Katamari Democracy posted:Again. You goons are missing the point. if you want to play Proxies thats cool and dandy. But if its a permanent or long going playstyle then gently caress you find something else to substitute. Katamari Democracy posted:Im the rear end in a top hat who refuses to play with people who play with Proxies after a few games in my playgroup. Katamari Democracy posted:Guess I do because in my group I dont like it when people who spend no money can just make his own cards over rule me spending money on physical cards? Dude gently caress you. Katamari Democracy posted:But if its a permeant thing in your deck then you are a piece of poo poo. If you dont want to upgrade then you need to move on to another game or find a suitable substitute Katamari Democracy posted:Kinda funny how you practice that in your business. How about you gently caress off. You are so ludicrously and hyperbolically angry about it in spite of people calmly explaining their reasons for proxying, and you're making the implicit case that participation this card game should be a function of your actual real life availability of funds which ignores a dozen completely valid reasons why someone might not want to or even be able to invest thousands of dollars in the game but still want to play If your approach to playing this game is even close to your way of talking about it, I get the impression that you're the sort of person who would flip the table if I exiled his Wurmcoil Engine or something, and without even a hint of doubt would I take a nice player with a box of decks with proxied Gaea's Cradles than a player who's going to talk the way you do with a box of legitimate ones
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May 30, 2021 07:51
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Heath posted:You are so ludicrously and hyperbolically angry about it in spite of people calmly explaining their reasons for proxying, and you're making the implicit case that participation this card game should be a function of your actual real life availability of funds which ignores a dozen completely valid reasons why someone might not want to or even be able to invest thousands of dollars in the game but still want to play You would be surprised. But your assumption is just that. An assumption. There is nothing I can say here in this post that would defend nor add to your statement! And you know what? Thats fine with me. Here is what I will tell you. I dont flip tables. I am unable to stop people from actually playing proxies. Its unfair to me for you to make that general idea of how I am. If you want to play proxies thats fine but if you want to work around and play it as a part of your deck than I am sorry but you are a piece of poo poo.
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May 30, 2021 08:04
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"If you want to play proxies that's fine, but if you want to play proxies you're a piece of poo poo" is not getting across whatever point you're trying to make, nor is it doing much to convince me you're not a table flipper.
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May 30, 2021 08:07
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Like your whole argument is literally about money. It isn't even about power levels, it's completely about policing peoples' financial investment. If someone comes to my table of 7 power level decks with a proxied out 11 power Timetwister combo deck or something, then yeah, I'm gonna be like no dude, you need to play something else. If someone comes to my cEDH-tier high power play deck and says hey, I can't afford a Gaea's Cradle, but I have a proxy one, and I want to play with you guys, that's completely kosher. If you then come over and ask to play with us, sit down and start calling him a piece of poo poo for his proxy, you're the piece of poo poo, not him. You have an absolutely trash attitude toward this. Edit: I even think Bust Rodd mentioned that he proxies a bunch of high power cards to loan to people with lower power decks specifically so they can play at the level of his decks, which is a good use of them Heath fucked around with this message at 08:20 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 08:16
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Heath posted:"If you want to play proxies that's fine, but if you want to play proxies you're a piece of poo poo" is not getting across whatever point you're trying to make, nor is it doing much to convince me you're not a table flipper. Oh please. Don't assume things. You would be surprised on who I am if you actually met me. Im not going to justify my posts so I will leave it alone. Like how you quoted on my posts; I dont care. Still wont change my mind on how people use 600 dollar cards as a subsitute for cards that are almost as good for 2 bucks. You can check those quotes. You made them. And they were what I said. Keep in mind that commander is an expensive format for a reason and if the price is whats stopping you from making that perfect deck than either your job or your ego is stopping you.
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May 30, 2021 08:18
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drat the heat got turnt on in this thread. I don't think KD was saying spend your rent money on cards or you are a bad person. Similarly, Wizards does not reprint wanted cards in a meaningful way for people who want them, and sharpieing Elish Norn on a plains feels right and good in the face of corporate greed. I like the idea that when I'm buying cards, I'm adding to my spellbook. Sure I could put a path to exile in every deck, but I don't have 10 of those and I do have "less optimal" versions on hand I could run. It adds a creative challenge to solve, and prevents me from running the same 30 cards in every deck. It also prevents me from running cards I do want, and would make my deck better. I'm the guy who prattles on about Hanna every couple months, and boy howdy would a Replenish or Academy Rector help. The land situation is particularly ridiculous, Serra's Sanctum went from 60-80 when I put Hanna together a year and a half ago, to almost 300. I'll never "work toward" perfecting this deck, since the handful of cards I need will never be reprinted, and these cards will only be more wanted over time. I don't have a point, just be nice and talk about wizard duels.
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May 30, 2021 08:20
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"You're misunderstanding me when I call you a piece of poo poo" sure is one way of trying to defend a point I guess. The bottom line for me is that my preferred way of playing is to play the best cards. Nether Void is a card I have in one or my decks, but I do not own it because $1200 is more than I want to spend on a single card. I have other cards in the same range, but I've had them for decades or got them for $20 before these absurd price spikes. It's an arbitrary cutoff for me--i just placed an order for a couple of cards yesterday in the $30 range and felt okay about it. I know for other people, that's cross their own arbitrary line. I know for yet other people, they don't mind spending a few hundred on a single card. I don't feel like my comfort level is universal and should be enforced on other people who may have more or less disposable income to drop on wizard poker, but at the same time is like to play magic with as many people who would like to play with me. And the game turns out to be just as fun when the cards are printed out at Office Max, so... It's all good with me. It's a game that people get very invested in emotionally and I really doubt anyone will have a fully proxied deck for long, but if they do then I don't care. I also don't care if there's a handful of cards they never intend to buy but still want to play with. But I'm sure I misunderstood the point you were making and I'm just a piece of poo poo. 
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May 30, 2021 08:21
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Katamari Democracy posted:You can check those quotes. You made them. And they were what I said. Keep in mind that commander is an expensive format for a reason and if the price is whats stopping you from making that perfect deck than either your job or your ego is stopping you. This kind of gatekeeping over a loving card game is mindbogglingly crass, especially coming from you.
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May 30, 2021 08:22
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Heath posted:This kind of gatekeeping over a loving card game is mindbogglingly crass, especially coming from you. Maybe not the best choice of words now that i see that. I ment to say your budget. E- I hosed up saying your job. I do apologize.
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May 30, 2021 08:26
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You'd have to be an absolute moron to take your thousand dollar cards to a LGS, sleeve them up and shuffle them when a slip of paper in front of a 1c card does the same job without putting your expensive pieces of cardboard in danger.
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May 30, 2021 08:52
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Katamari Democracy posted:But you better understand if I pay money for a card that is like 30 bucks and I see someone play the same card that is fake and costs 10 cents. Im gonna be upset. In all your name-calling and insane ramblings, this is the only bit that seems to attempt to make an argument for why proxies are bad. Allow me to rebut: You regretting your own purchasing decisions is a YOU problem, not a them problem. If it makes you feel bad if you spend 30 dollars on a card and someone else proxies it, don't spend 30 dollars on it. Either accept that you're able to pay the big price and they're not, or stop paying the big price and start proxying stuff yourself.
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May 30, 2021 09:38
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Katamari Democracy posted:Keep in mind that commander is an expensive format for a reason Yes, and that reason is "Wizards of the Coast is a dumb company that makes dumb decisions". There's no greater meaning in Commander being ridiculously expensive, it's just an unfortunate side effect of the company being run by a bunch of complete dumbasses.
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May 30, 2021 10:14
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Katamari Democracy posted:Oh please. Don't assume things. You would be surprised on who I am if you actually met me. Katamari Democracy posted:Maybe not the best choice of words now that i see that. I ment to say your budget.  with this crap. I don't believe you about your backpedaling because you've been saying nasty poo poo about money this whole time. Go ahead and stick with "gently caress off, poors, for trying to play a game" because we know that's what you meant. Nothing about what you've said prior to this indicates otherwise.Sorry. Let me turn down the ad hominem and make a point here: Would you ask a kid playing little league using school-owned bats, gloves, helmets, and cleats to gently caress off and go play with what he has at home? Obviously not (I would hope), but my point is to find a comparison that lays bare how nasty your argument is. In this comparison, cEDH is playing baseball on an actual field, in a competitive environment (as opposed to just goofing around in the backyard). Telling someone they can't use proxies to alleviate the prohibitive cost of playing is equivalent of telling the baseball kid to gently caress off and go home to play with whatever he has at home. What he has at home is qualitatively worse and no amount of "just make do with what you have!" is going to give him the experience of playing an actual game of actual baseball. You keep saying that there are equivalent cards that can be bought cheaply. Sure. If you're playing casual jank, that's more or less the expectation. But give me a budget equivalent to, say, Force of Will that can do the same thing (counter any spell using no mana), but which costs less than  . Don't bother looking because it doesn't exist. cEDH player can't just sub-in Misdirection as a budget equivalent for Force of Wil because they need it to do what it does, specifically. You can't dismiss the intricacies of decks tuned at that level, but I suppose you're welcome to try running a budget version of a cEDH deck and see how it goes. If you play it against cEDH decks, you'll get run the gently caress over. Moreover, it doesn't keep anyone else in the game from playing by letting people proxy. To continue the comparison, letting the kid play using communal gear isn't going to keep other players who bought all of their own gear from playing. Most of them wouldn't care, although I suppose the ones like you are the ones who would look down their nose at The Poors who can't even afford their own helmet, spikes, gloves, and bats. Learn to code, kid AMIRITE FELLAS? Anyway, EDH is the same: a player proxying Gaea's Cradle isn't keeping you from playing. Sure, it'll let him compete a hell of a lot better than whatever substitute (see below) he can scrounge up at home. But as long as the group he's sitting down with has that expectation, then gently caress it. Now, if everyone else is playing casual jank and he sits down with a proxied $5000 deck, then he's an rear end in a top hat. But that has nothing to do with the proxies and everything to do with pubstomping. That would be like an MLB player using borrowed gear to mash some home runs off some little kids. The problem isn't who owns the bat he's holding. My point is: EDH isn't the only game or hobby that might ask someone to invest hundreds or thousands of dollars in order to participate. However, most of those activities also have reasonable expectations for those playing, and often have things in place to alleviate the cost of participation. Proxying is a reasonable way to alleviate the frankly absurd market for this game. If you have a better one, I'd love to hear it. If you're mad about proxies, then either get gud, or set expectations for power level at your table to hedge out the insanely expensive stuff. No one in my normal group would proxy a Gaea's Cradle, not because we're against proxies but because it would be a dickhead thing to do at the power level we've all agreed on. But gently caress right off with this gatekeeping, classist bullshit. In conclusion, Magic is a land of contrasts. Bust Rodd posted:“Mom can we have Gaea’s Cradle?” lol this whole dumb argument was worth it for this joke
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May 30, 2021 10:37
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I am literally begging for one of the 3 Magic:the Gathering threads on Something Awful to not be a toxic shithole (or worse, a place to discuss Limited) So please can we all just stop calling each other pieces of poo poo and telling each other to gently caress off? Let’s bolt some straw men real quick: 1) LGS owners don’t always have the cards you want anyway, so you’re not losing them business by proxying a card they literally cannot sell you 2) It’s your money 3) If someone sleeves up a deck with 100 proxies, and they never intend to build a real deck or spend real money, they absolutely have to accept that some people might not play with them. This really only impacts casual/non-cEDH Commander because the cEDH community is way, way more invested in the most expensive cards. If you’re mostly a kitchen table casual player and you find proxies distasteful, that’s OK, but you cannot tell someone else to stop playing magic, all you can do is choose not to play with them. I personally have seen in my own LGS a kid with a 100% tuned Brago deck that would go off super consistently made out of proxies because the kid was like 19, freshman in college living with his mom and could barely afford to eat. All the MtG dads and Discord grinders felt some type of way about Brago and Freemium Godo wiping the tables all the time and just stopped playing with him. A few months later he showed up with a real Izzet coin flip deck with the coin flip commanders and played that, because every card in that deck is like a nickel.
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May 30, 2021 12:19
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I started playing commander and arena during pandemic with my roommates, thinking about going to store to play eventually (they are opening up for modern horizons 2 prerelease with vaccine cards). I haven’t proxied anything, but this attitude is exactly why I am worried about playing in a store. Such an exclusive attitude, that actively tries to prevent people from getting into the same hobby. I’ll still go eventually, but this 100% can keep new people away. How does proxying something on the reserved list help WOTC anyways? My store has some cards definitely, but not the ones I have looked at (and decided not to buy).
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May 30, 2021 13:12
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For a lot of people, collecting is part of the game. Most people don’t realize this is practically a solved game. This is something I learned from discord goons. This goes back to my original complaint, which really is about the expensive mana cards. Every upgrade discussion has the same cards. There is no one solution that makes everyone happy. It actually kind of reminds me of how wheel of fortune just started giving RSTLNE for free on the last puzzle because it had been solved as the most efficient letters to pick.
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May 30, 2021 13:18
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sweat drops from my face as i sit down to the pod. i whip out my checkbook and write one for 10,000 to hasbro. i tap it with a grin. i have won the game and ascended with my financial superiority. i scribble out "the gathering" on my cards and write "the gatekeeping" on them. for i am the best. i am a winner. accept no proxies, no substitutes. You're not special if you spent a ton of money on your cards, and you're not better than the person who printed off pictures of them and put them in front of draft chaff. You just have less common sense than that person.
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May 30, 2021 14:22
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I didn’t spend $7,000 to lose to some fuckin McDonalds cashier am I right guys? If you’re poor and use fake cards you are an rear end in a top hat PIECE OF poo poo. Anyways, I’m actually a really cool guy, anybody want to chat and see how cool I am? You’ll be surprised how much more reserved I am about being a garbage person when I have to actually confront people verbally.
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May 30, 2021 14:29
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Oh, hey 97 posts... shoulda figured it was proxy talk. I was an anti-proxy zealot for the longest time. The only exception I made for was obvious proxies for cards you already owned to avoid having to move it between decks. Secret Lairs printing mechanically-unique limited-edition cards changed that for me, though the problem is extremely exacerbated by the collector speculation, which in turn is only made possible due to the Reserved List. Now, as far as I'm concerned, print every and any game piece you want, as long as you are not using it to defraud anyone. If you don't like your opponents using proxies, consider that maybe you're using money to conceal the fact that you loving suck at making decks. I mean, I say all that, but my actual reaction to 2020 Magic was to sell my collection. Just mailed of the last of it this week.
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May 30, 2021 14:33
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if you care even a modicrum about proxies then you are either a) a coprorite shill b) A huge classist rear end in a top hat. Or both.
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May 30, 2021 15:33
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Bust Rodd posted:I am literally begging for one of the 3 Magic:the Gathering threads on Something Awful to not be a toxic shithole (or worse, a place to discuss Limited) Uhhhh yeah nope. Asking Magic players to be nice is like asking Wizards to not charge $350 for Secret Lair XVII: Awwww, aren't kitties cute? (with a foil Savannah Lions and Mirri chibi). My 2 cents: if an LGS owner says "no proxies in my store", I can respect that. He's the one paying for the chair you're sitting in and the Febreze he sprays after you leave. But anyone wheezing "only Real Cards in my casual playgroup!" can gently caress off.
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May 30, 2021 17:38
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I could understand being vexed at proxies if everyone suddenly starts bringing $20,000 decks printed and shoved onto basic land, and you’re there with Syr Gwyn and her Loxodon Warhammer but otherwise I don’t really see the problem beyond and anything that adds more “do you pay the 1?” is dull
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May 30, 2021 17:53
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Speaking of Rhystic Study! That new 1 drop white jerk artifact Rhystic study looks interesting
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May 30, 2021 17:55
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Yeah I mean Esper Sentinel is funny because a lot of time people bellyache about cards that just automatically go in every deck but then again Esper Sentinel is a card we’ve been on our hands and knees begging for so we’re all just cheering in the streets.
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May 30, 2021 18:07
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I'm only mad because it's going for $30 and it's not even a Mythic, I'm not going to be able to get enough of the things at that price.
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May 30, 2021 18:14
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Katamari Democracy posted:I mean come someone PM me the MTG commander goon discord? Fuckin' lol.
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May 30, 2021 18:26
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I said nothing about thousand dollar cards so fuckin lol at everyone who thinks im the rear end in a top hat for everyone misreading my posts. Ill go ahead and drop it. You guys continue to print off cards and Ill continue to invest in a game I enjoy. Don't mind me, Ill be over here getting a free sun tan from all the foil mythic I get every time I play a game of commander
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May 30, 2021 18:38
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No one misread anything, you made yourself quite clear but can't seem to understand why we think you're an rear end in a top hat. The air is very thin up on your high horse. Please come down and get some oxygen before coming in here and acting like you're morally superior to people who wish to play a game but cannot afford its absurd prices.
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May 30, 2021 19:06
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Katamari Democracy posted:I said nothing about thousand dollar cards so fuckin lol at everyone who thinks im the rear end in a top hat for everyone misreading my posts. Absolutely no one misunderstood you, you're just a prick.
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May 30, 2021 19:14
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Look at this new money child who thinks valuable cards come in mythic or foil rarity
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May 30, 2021 19:20
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Paul Zuvella posted:Absolutely no one misunderstood you, you're just a prick. New thread title.
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May 30, 2021 19:23
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A friend of mine got into commander after hearing me prattle on. We played as teens, and he had some of his cards still. He was sad because he's long since parted with his rare binder, but I said every rhystic study is a 20 dollar bill. He had dozens of the uncommon tutors from fifth/sixth edition, and like 10 rhystic studies. Any of the cards he was sad about not having anymore like Draco or Predator Skyship are like 25 cents.
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May 30, 2021 19:25
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Show him the new "Draco" coming in MH2 and see what his reaction is. I love getting 90s magic players to look at modern cards. 
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May 30, 2021 19:30
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Aranan posted:Show him the new "Draco" coming in MH2 and see what his reaction is. I love getting 90s magic players to look at modern cards. Yeah I can't tell if MH2 is a greedy cash-grab or a loveletter to old greybeards. I picked up a box of TSR, and got the old bordered Yawgmoth, and it felt like I was rocking my terrible Mercenary/Rebel deck 
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May 30, 2021 19:33
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Infinite Karma posted:Look at this new money child who thinks valuable cards come in mythic or foil rarity Not emptyquoting.
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May 30, 2021 19:36
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