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What if instead of aliens, it's incredibly advanced robot servitors of an awakening global self-aware Superintelligence that has spent years constructing hidden caches across the globe, using nano-robots, and is just now preparing to rise and exterminate humanity? Unleash the Hypnodrones! 
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May 30, 2021 14:49
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DrSunshine posted:What if instead of aliens, it's incredible advanced robot servitors of an awakening global Superintelligence that is just now preparing to rise and exterminate humanity? Unleash the Hypnodrones! :cylon: "Gaia's awake. And she's angry.... Premiering summer 2022, Tilda Swinton is RAGE MOTHER!"
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May 30, 2021 14:54
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Ratios and Tendency posted:I posted a rebuttal from a professional FLIR technician. Describing that as "clutching at straws" and an "attack" reflects that you're arguing from emotion, that the impossibility of alien life is a deeply held belief that cannot be challenged. Just to make sure that I am following along at home correctly, this is what you are referring to as the evidence that invalidates the math presented? Ratios and Tendency posted:I've already posted this but his Flir analysis is wrong. A plane would have shown up as such on everyone's integrated radar.
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May 30, 2021 15:03
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DrSunshine posted:What if instead of aliens, it's incredibly advanced robot servitors of an awakening global self-aware Superintelligence that has spent years constructing hidden caches across the globe, using nano-robots, and is just now preparing to rise and exterminate humanity? Unleash the Hypnodrones! Skynet awakens, sees the amount of F2P garbage out there in humanity's grubby hands, and decides "yeah, this poo poo has got to go"  I guess aliens with FTL and flintlock level guns would be the preferable scenario then 
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May 30, 2021 15:12
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mediaphage posted:"Gaia's awake. And she's angry.... ...this is kinda badass. Has anyone ever done Mother Earth Kills Humanity With Technology angle? Because I need to watch that post haste
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May 30, 2021 18:58
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Libluini posted:And I'm saying power plants are a thing, why is this concept hard to grasp? "They need lots of energy" is a total non-argument. Okay, I'm going to stop lurking, because this is just... Power plants are absolutely a thing. They are in everything. Including... your car ( assuming you have one ). It runs on a chemical power plant, specifically powered by refined hydrocarbons. So here's an experiment for you to do. Take your car for a one hour, leisurely drive. Stop. Pop the hood. Put your bare hand right on the engine-block, aka the power plant of your particular vehicle. Note what happens to your hand. So, what's happened here? Well, the energy released by burning off the refined hydrocarbons in your car's power plant has resulted in motive power ( which has propelled you to your destination ) and into heat ( which has just given you a nice first- or second-degree burn ). If you were to point an infrared camera at your car, you would see the engine as much, much brighter than the rest of it, because of this. This is basic, absolutely fundamental physics; Energy has changed from one state to another, but because the process is not - and can't be - 100 % efficient, you are left with spillage in the form of heat. Of course, you can do something about this. You absolutely can stop a car from having a heat-signature. Using your car as an example again, insulate it so that no sign of heat ( which, by the way, includes exhaust ) is visible to the infrared camera. Now, on top of this, you can add aerodynamic sculpting to reduce drag and radar-signature, stealth paint and whatnot to further reduce radar-detection, as much of all of that good stuff as you like. But if you try to actually get into the car and make the car move by any means, you will either choke to death on the exhaust ( Because you can't release it without showing a heat-signature ), or cook ( because no heat can escape the confines of the vehicle, and that poo poo builds quickly ). This is a known problem. Every single vehicle on the planet has part of it's design dedicated to "How do we cool our power plant so we do not cook the operator of the vehicle, or make the vehicle break down or spontaneously combust". Thus, "Power plants exists, therefore aliens" is ... not even wrong. It's a complete non-sequitur. As for EM-shielding... Sure, but all those EM-emissions have to go somewhere. If you power source is radiating exotic particles of some kind, the only way to stop that is to ensure that they have nowhere to go. Which means that just like with heat, you're going to have to contain a steadily increasing dose and strength of whatever it is that you power plant is giving off, and you have to contain it inside the vehicle. And that isn't even beginning to take into account other emissions that your gear might be giving off. So what fuel-source could these proposed aliens be using for their proposed craft or VN probes? Good old-fashioned fission? Well, there's all that radiation that'll make the interior of the craft toxic. But even if that wasn't a problem, you still have the problem of heat and cooling. Plus, nuclear power generates some very nasty waste, because, again, the process by which energy is converted isn't 100 % efficient. Fusion would work a lot better, but still needs plenty of shielding and, again, isn't 100 % effective, since you still get waste-products. Matter/anti-matter reactions produce gamma-rays and photons... and yet more heat, that need to be dealt with. All of which will need to be accounted for and dealt with, somehow, by the builders of the craft. Now, I am 100 % convinced that alien civilizations exist. I am also convinced that some of them might be far ahead of us technologically. And I would love for there to be evidence that we were reachable by them. That some form of FTL exists. It would make me ecstatic, to be honest. But a lot of you, and this example is particularly egregious, are just throwing poo poo at the wall to see what sticks. This isn't about a loophole in general relativity that seems to allow FTL travel or whatever, this is about whether some of the most basic, foundational principles of how the world works apply equally and at all times. Or, in short; Either aliens have to follow the basic laws of physics or they don't. If they do, then they will need to account for things like the buildup of heat, emissions from reactors, conservation of momentum, friction with air, sonic booms and the like. All things that are very conveniently being ignored when pointed out. And that is why "They need lots of energy" is an absolutely valid, sound, and reasonable thing to use as an argument when considering possible explanations for these phenomena. Now, if aliens don't have to follow the laws of physics, we are in a discussion about miracles and divinities. And if that's what you believe, then I honestly wish you luck with that. I genuinely hope it makes you happy. However, I'm not going to believe in invisible, miraculous beings in the heavens, whatever their origin. And at this point, as far as I can tell from my lurking? Of the sides that have been 'debating' UFOs/UAPs in this thread, one side has consistently provided level-headed, parsimonious, and reasonable explanations. And the other side has basically been this guy, while desperately trying to pretend they're not this guy:  And it's really loving aggravating, because UFO/UAP's are cool! They are amazing, and we should study them and find out what they are, because we can learn something whatever the answer turns out to be. But approaching it with the attitude that "It's aliens, it's loving aliens, aliens is what it is, and y'all need to loving shut up about it not being aliens, because it's loving aliens, aliens, aliens", which is exactly how more than a couple of you come across in here, has succeeded in what I think is precisely the opposite of what y'all wanted. It's alienated me quite thoroughly from your position.
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May 30, 2021 19:02
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Thank you for the above effort post. Thats just the content that I love to see wupwup. I will say I disagree with your last point here; TLM3101 posted:
Boris Galerkin posted:Even if you think it’s aliens you should want the more simpler explanation of camera artifact/reflection/weather balloon/person lying to be true because that’s how science loving works. If you believe A is true, then you look for explanations that show A is false. Otherwise you might as well be like those flat earthers in that Netflix documentary. And all people here are saying is that those videos can easily be explained so we need better evidence before asserting that it’s aliens. Lampsacus fucked around with this message at 19:25 on May 30, 2021 |
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May 30, 2021 19:17
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Ratios and Tendency posted:In all seriousness, spheres with no control surfaces and no exhaust that can also go underwater doesn't actually scream drone. Nervous chuckle maybe. if i've crashed one of these into a pool before do i get to be in the alien probe club too? 
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May 30, 2021 19:48
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Lampsacus posted:I, personally, find it rather insulting, patronizing and gross when any talk of dreaming/imagining it to be aliens or questions about the feasiblity of contact or presence or how they would even get here, you know, hypotheticals, is shut down and laughed at. This is Debate and Discussion. If someone wants to talk about dreaming/imagining a fiction of alien visitation, the maybe this isn't the place. A hypothesis on alien visitation is fine, but it's likely to be shut down pretty quickly because there's already been the debate over most of those hypotheses. Any pro-alien argument basically boils down to: "Here's what we don't know, and why it might be aliens," while just handwaving away things like "no I don't think it was a military/foreign spy drone".
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May 30, 2021 19:49
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Fart Amplifier posted:This is Debate and Discussion. If someone wants to talk about dreaming/imagining a fiction of alien visitation, the maybe this isn't the place. A hypothesis on alien visitation is fine, but it's likely to be shut down pretty quickly because there's already been the debate over most of those hypotheses.
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May 30, 2021 20:00
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I can remember being 7 years old and desperately wanting every UFO to be aliens too, and I do empathize, however the solution is to grow up
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May 30, 2021 20:06
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Bug Squash posted:
You should probably go watch videos of THPS skating physics before you lean too hard on that guy for your realistic analysis.
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May 30, 2021 20:09
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Lampsacus posted:OK, so maybe I worded it wrong. I mean, more like, the sentiment that it would be cool if there were aliens communicating or visiting. It feels like you can't even admit to wanting that to be the case, see the above post I've quoted plus many more of a similar edge. I think my one and only point I was trying to make was that there is this persistent thread that it's only the pro-alien peeps who are being irrational or unhelpful. When, in fact, there folks being 'skeptical' and 'rational' but really they are just being the space thread equivalent of internet atheist dicks. See, that's the thing. To me, those you're tagging as the "I wish/wouldn't it be neat if it were aliens" crowd come across to me as, like I said, TLM3101 posted:"It's aliens, it's loving aliens, aliens is what it is, and y'all need to loving shut up about it not being aliens, because it's loving aliens, aliens, aliens" with a bit of added, insinuated "We're being silenced!" thrown in. That is honestly how I read more than a few of the 'pro-aliens-as-explanation' posts. I wouldn't even have said anything if not for the whole "Power plants exist, therefore aliens" thing, because it was just so incredibly egregious. And a perfect example of what's been grating at me. Yes, it would be cool if it were aliens. But unless the fundamental rules of how energy works either do not work in any way close to how physics and empirical evidence tells us they do, or they can be suspended at will, the likelihood that it is aliens is as close to nil as makes no difference.
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May 30, 2021 20:11
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What evidence is there that it’s aliens? They’re just things flying in the sky. Why do people reach for that conclusion, other than that pop culture has prepared us to expect that possibility for the last hundred years?
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May 30, 2021 20:15
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Captain Monkey posted:You should probably go watch videos of THPS skating physics before you lean too hard on that guy for your realistic analysis. Tou-loving-ché
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May 30, 2021 20:17
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TLM3101 posted:See, that's the thing. To me, those you're tagging as the "I wish/wouldn't it be neat if it were aliens" crowd come across to me as, like I said, I think some of the friction in this thread comes from the distance in which posts like this; Yes, it would be cool if it were aliens. are responded to like this; I can remember being 7 years old and desperately wanting every UFO to be aliens too, and I do empathize, however the solution is to grow up But I guess this is SA so we can expect some posts made in bad faith in every discussion, I guess.
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May 30, 2021 20:17
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Ratios and Tendency posted:We cannot build the tic-tac and have no idea how it could possibly work. There's dozens of eyewitnesses, IR video and radar tracks all saying it's a real vehicle. ok something i want to point out both eyewitness observers and sensor systems are fallible--trivially so, in fact, with known weaknesses that have been academically studied for decades. it is often stated as a counter-argument to any terrestrial origin for these encounters that the objects display impossible characteristics but that's all they really have to do, right?--display? for a controlled subset of military observers and known hardware? the us military (or whatever other terrestrial entity you think most likely) doesn't actually have to have the ability to build 'the tic tac' or 'the speedball' or whatever else; it would be of immense military interest and value just merely to be able to send out a swarm of drones that can convincingly fool and defeat other people's flir pods and operators as needed, and i think if you consider the design problem here not to be 'build a craft with xyz characteristics' but 'build a craft that appears to have xyz characteristics to military sensors' the bar is significantly lower
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May 30, 2021 20:19
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Antifa Turkeesian posted:What evidence is there that it’s aliens? They’re just things flying in the sky. Why do people reach for that conclusion, other than that pop culture has prehttps://forums.somethingawful.com/pared us to expect that possibility for the last hundred years? 124 years, to be pedantically exact. War of the Worlds was published in 1897.
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May 30, 2021 20:22
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Lampsacus posted:OK, so maybe I worded it wrong. I mean, more like, the sentiment that it would be cool if there were aliens communicating or visiting. It feels like you can't even admit to wanting that to be the case, see the above post I've quoted plus many more of a similar edge. I think my one and only point I was trying to make was that there is this persistent thread that it's only the pro-alien peeps who are being irrational or unhelpful. When, in fact, there folks being 'skeptical' and 'rational' but really they are just being the space thread equivalent of internet atheist dicks. You seem to be super bothered by what I said so why don’t you do your health a favor and block me and move on?
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May 30, 2021 20:23
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lol at the idea that people are mocked out of the thread for wanting it to be aliens, that's fine. it's the sheer antagonism to people who don't agree. i wish we could meet some little green dudes too, it would change everything. i'm just not convinced by any of these videos that there's anything but an earthly explanation for these videos. i'd love to be proven wrong, though. i will still look through the new report when it inevitably surfaces.
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May 30, 2021 20:29
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Boris Galerkin posted:You seem to be super bothered by what I said so why don’t you do your health a favor and block me and move on? This, on the other hand, is super condescending concern trolling
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May 30, 2021 20:34
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Anyone have any ideas about what this is? It's one of the UFOs photographed by the Navy
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May 30, 2021 20:51
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Dameius posted:Just to make sure that I am following along at home correctly, this is what you are referring to as the evidence that invalidates the math presented? The FLIR technician rebuttal is in a later post. Mick West doesn't give any math regarding Gimbal. He claims the apparent rotation of the object is due to the rotating gimbal mechanism that the FLIR camera is mounted on and that the object is a misidentified distant jet exhaust. Actual experts disagree with him on how the FLIR camera works, and there's no transponder on the object and none of the surrounding testimony fits with a plane, even just the audio in the actual video; "look there's a whole fleet of them". Gimbal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TumprpOwHY
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May 30, 2021 23:37
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Ratios and Tendency posted:The FLIR technician rebuttal is in a later post. Mick west already debunked all of this and the technician video you posted a while back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Btns91W5J8
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May 31, 2021 00:11
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Vorik posted:Mick west already debunked all of this and the technician video you posted a while back. He's edited out the audio in this video specifically so no-one hears "look there's a whole fleet of them" haha. This is fairly convincing in terms of explaining the rotation but he doesn't touch on the transponder, the audio or Graves' testimony of the objects being tracked all day in some cases, frequently, over a period of years. So when you say "all of this" you actually meant one specific element of the video and literally nothing else? A good Gimbal video actually happened to come out today going into the surrounding context: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AcwjTImVBl8 Ratios and Tendency fucked around with this message at 03:09 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 01:54
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Vorik posted:Anyone have any ideas about what this is? the middle photo is the object hitting super sonic and leaving a trail behind it. Potentially this is a ramjet plane clicking into super sonic very quickly   --- Also let's talk space. https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/enigmatic-skull-may-be-oldest-modern-human-out-of-africa Enjoy this article. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 02:52 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 01:57
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Vorik posted:Mick west already debunked all of this and the technician video you posted a while back. I mean... it's pretty bloody convincing isn't it.
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May 31, 2021 02:09
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I think these are all just Boltzmann brains being spawned in our atmosphere.
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May 31, 2021 03:27
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:I think these are all just Boltzmann brains being spawned in our atmosphere.  It was a thought experiment! It's like people trying to prove the existence of a literal Maxwell's Demon! That said, this is definitely the thread for it, much like UFOs.
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May 31, 2021 05:11
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This article on UFOs basically says what I've been thinking but have not been anywhere near motivated enough to argue cogently. One thing I don't understand - surely the US has plenty of powerful enough spy satellites to monitor their own carrier groups basically 24/7? The National Reconnaissance Office literally gave away two spare telescopes to NASA, one of which is being turned into the Roman Space Telescope. Unless these putative UFOs are tiny and/or invisible in the optical/near-infrared you'd think they'd be caught on spy satellite cameras.
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May 31, 2021 06:50
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Or cell phones.
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May 31, 2021 10:56
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Zesty posted:Or cell phones. No joke, but alien, cryptid and angel sightings have cratered since virtually every human got a video camera in their pocket. At the same time incidents of police racism have skyrocketed. The implication is, of course, that an unholy alliance has been forged. 
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May 31, 2021 11:40
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All Cryptids Are Bastards
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May 31, 2021 13:55
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I think Bigfoot went extinct due to climate change. That one had nothing to do with cell phones
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May 31, 2021 14:44
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Some cool space science news: http://www.sci-news.com/space/europa-volcanoes-09697.html quote:
Man if they could confirm this, it'd be a huge deal, because if you have volcanoes, you have an active source of heat energy as well as nutrients and chemicals. Densely energy-packed chemicals too, like Hydrogen Sulfide and Methane. When you have those, you create energy gradients, which means you can extract work from them, which means there's a possibility for life. I've read conflicting theories about whether life might need surfaces to stick to to act as a catalyst of some kind, which means it'd need basically land-ocean interfaces like shorelines, which would mean that life wouldn't form in a totally oceanic world like Europa. However if that's not the case, then it'd be really a great environment for non-Terran life to evolve!! We've gotta get a probe there, yesterday. I think exploring Europa and Enceladus represent our greatest chances for finding alien life. Also, Mars news: http://www.sci-news.com/space/curiosity-carbon-dioxide-ice-clouds-martian-skies-09708.html Clouds of dry ice on Mars!  
DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 15:01 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 14:58
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OK, I had this whole cathartic essay written up to absolutely devastate everyone who disagreed with me on the whole UFO-"debate", but then I realized that was stupid, as I don't actually care that much about UFOs in the first place. So I deleted everything and read an article about wormholes instead. It was really a relief to pull out all the stops! But it was also really insulting and I decided the weather today is far too nice to be mean to people. I made a note to table my arguments until an actual UFO lands in our garden and real aliens step out. Then I'll just hand them a list with all the people who really annoyed me throughout the UFO-discussion and tell them they're secretly planning to harvest alien organs and let nature run its course. But anyway, wormholes! This article claims the possibility of wormholes being real got an upgrade on the how-likely-is-this O' meter from "UFOs are aliens" to "UFOs are the Chinese". To summarize a bit, the article first explains the major problems behind wormholes: 1. They are (probably) tiny and will, according to general relativity, react to normal matter passing through by immediately closing. To make wormholes big and strong, and your friend, you need a hypothetical material which counter-acts this closing force, called "exotic matter". We don't actually know if exotic matter exists and we certainly have only very fuzzy ideas about how to get some. 2. To keep everything in the realm of the possible, instead of the realm of the loving nuts, the kinds of calculations scientists could have tried out all result in microscopic wormholes. Stable microscopic wormholes open interesting possibilities concerning FTL-communication, but it's kind of hard to push a person through. And now, Quantum! has entered the ring: SA posted:A breakthrough occurred in late 2017, when physicists Ping Gao and Daniel Jafferis, both then at Harvard University, and Aron Wall, then at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, N.J., discovered a way to prop open wormholes with quantum entanglement—a kind of long-distance connection between quantum entities. The peculiar nature of entanglement allows it to provide the exotic ingredient needed for wormhole stability. And because entanglement is a standard feature of quantum physics, it is relatively easy to create. “It’s really a beautiful theoretical idea,” says Nabil Iqbal, a physicist at Durham University in England, who was not involved in the research. Though the method helps to stabilize wormholes, it can still deliver only microscopic ones. But this new approach has inspired a stream of work that uses the entanglement trick with different sorts of matter in the hopes of bigger, longer-lasting holes. So now we have the possibility to use Quantum! entanglement to use something that actually exists instead of Nabil Iqbal and Simon Ross from Durham University studied this phenomenon to see if at least theoretically, they could use this new "Gao-Jafferis-Wall" method to create bigger holes and still keep them stable. I don't want to discourage you from reading their work, but I'll spoil their results here: They failed. Regardless of how unlikely they made the situations in which stable wormholes could form, as long as they staid in the realm of known physics, the theoretical wormholes resulting from this method were all microscopic. But at least this means two teams, working separately, at least confirmed that this process would work, in theory. At the end the article mentions that research into wormholes is still ongoing, and there's lots of it. So expect more updates in the future! (Personally, I'm kind of hoping that eventually they'll manage to create one of those microscopic wormholes in a lab, but a big one for like space travel seems to be a far dream so far.) Libluini fucked around with this message at 19:38 on May 31, 2021 |
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May 31, 2021 19:29
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If information can pass through without issue that allows for interstellar civilization of a kind to exist.
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Jun 1, 2021 02:25
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You should have posted it. Always fun to read insane screeds about UFOs.
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Jun 1, 2021 02:38
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FTL communication via wormhole would be the top discovery of the century, and like Raenir says it opens up the ability to have a real interstellar empire instead of a very loose confederation of systems that would see significant scientific and cultural drifting. It opens up the potential to send a sublight probe to nearby stars and communicate with it/control it in real time. It also delivers a solution to the fermi paradox because everyone is communicating with wormhole tech instead of blasting their poo poo out into space. I guess it could also revolutionize modern communication technology if you want a more boring application.
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Jun 1, 2021 02:56
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:FTL communication via wormhole would be the top discovery of the century, and like Raenir says it opens up the ability to have a real interstellar empire instead of a very loose confederation of systems that would see significant scientific and cultural drifting. It opens up the potential to send a sublight probe to nearby stars and communicate with it/control it in real time. It also delivers a solution to the fermi paradox because everyone is communicating with wormhole tech instead of blasting their poo poo out into space. Doesn't the fact that we actually don't presently see / have been conquered by an FTL space empire mean that wormhole communication is a non-starter, probably for reasons we haven't thought of yet? Actually that would be an interesting Fermi Paradox explanation - assuming colonization follows the "slow burn" type of model where each civilization only colonizes a few nearby systems at a time, and they gradually wink out behind them. Because wormhole communication doesn't exist, then they are never able to reach the level of cohesion that would make a space empire stay together and be able to exponentially expand and settle the galaxy. DrSunshine fucked around with this message at 03:06 on Jun 1, 2021 |
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Jun 1, 2021 03:03
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