[Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > C-SPAM > [Marx] I put on my anti-coat and wizard hat

(Thread IKs: dead gay comedy forums)

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

quote:

We declare to all peoples and governments that we are dropping out of the war. We are issuing orders for full demobilization of all troops that now face the armies of Germany, Austria-Hungary, Turkey, and Bulgaria. We wait and trust that all nations will soon follow in our steps.

We announce at the same time that the conditions of peace offered its by Germany and Austria-Hungary are basically against the interests of all peoples � The peoples of Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Courland, and Estonia regard these conditions as a violation of their will, while for Russia they constitute a perpetual menace. The peoples of the world, guided by their political convictions and moral instincts, are condemning these conditions and are awaiting the day when the working classes of all countries will establish their own forms of peaceful co-operation of peoples. We refuse to sanction those conditions which the sword of German and Austro-Hungarian imperialism is ready to inscribe on the living bodies of the peoples involved. We cannot enter the signature of the Russian Revolution tinder conditions which carry oppression, sorrow, and suffering to millions of human beings �

In connection with the above declaration I wish to deliver to the Quadruple Alliance the following written statement:

�In the name of the Soviet of People�s Commissars, the Government of the Russian Federated Republic hereby informs the governments and peoples warring against it, as well as the Allies and neutrals, that in refusing to sign the annexation peace Russia at the same time declares the war with Germany, Austria-Hungary, Bulgaria, and Turkey at an end. Orders for general demobilization have already been issued.�

L. TROTSKY
A. BITSENKO
A. IOFFE
V. KARELIN
M. POKROVSKII

somehow this brilliant declaration did not convince the germans to stop taking russian land for free

# ? May 30, 2021 19:28

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:07

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

the first armistice negotiation was hilarious because the bolsheviks decided to send representatives of all russian society to the meeting. so they sent some random rear end peasents, soldiers, sailors, and a woman who had assassinated a russian general

# ? May 30, 2021 19:28

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 217 days!

vyelkin posted:

also trotsky had the brilliant idea of "no war, no peace" which was basically neither sign a peace deal nor keep fighting and the germans said lol okay and just kept advancing into russia with no organized resistance until the bolsheviks figured out how stupid trotsky's idea was

historical fiction premise: trotsky is a liberal who traveled back in time to "save" the soviet union

# ? May 30, 2021 19:32

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

Hodgepodge posted:

historical fiction premise: trotsky is a liberal who traveled back in time to "save" the soviet union

we already knew he was a menshevik

# ? May 30, 2021 19:33

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

I'm fine with a lot of utopianism and naive exuberance from the Bolsheviks tbh. They'd just launched the first successful socialist revolution in one of the worst places to do it, surely that'll inspire the rest of the socialist world into revolution too, despite their shameful actions voting for the war.

I think a few more organisations could do with some dreamers, at the very least so that big picture visions of society appear again.

# ? May 30, 2021 19:40

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

I�m just picturing max hoffman and the ottoman delegation in full military regalia trying to make small talk with a tattered overcoat wearing peasant the Russian delegation literally pulled off the street on their way to the meeting

# ? May 30, 2021 19:41

The Voice of Labor: Apr 8, 2020

Demon Semen posted:

That is also why hippies and anarchist organizations are tolerated by the capitalist class, and marxists are not, hth

john lennon felled by an assassin's bullet. judi bari, attempted assassination. I'm sure there are a bunch of other earth first and wto protestors who got suicided. all hippies and anarchists. this thread, allowed to live.

spooks don't give a gently caress about idealogies beyond knowing that they don't like it. I would also suggest that what determines a threat is how broad it's reach is.

food not bombs is allowed to exist because no one wants to eat beans. riot ribs is immediately cointelpro'ed because if you're giving out ribs and hamburgers and other desirable food stuffs, that represents a threat.

so yeah, this lovely thread is allowed to live because any hint of inquiry into a better world or how to go about realizing it is dogpiled for two pages

# ? May 30, 2021 19:52

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

Hodgepodge posted:

historical fiction premise: trotsky is a liberal who traveled back in time to "save" the soviet union

Do you think that trotsky would travel forward in time to prevent you from making posts like these?

Hodgepodge posted:

i think its been established that the well known "rescue rangers" are fictional cartoon chipmunks who are old enough to consent, so you could even split the difference and post some porn featuring adult cartoon chipmunks

i'm not sure what doing that would achieve though but we have the technology to do it

# ? May 30, 2021 19:56

Lightningproof: Feb 23, 2011

Raskolnikov38 posted:

I�m just picturing max hoffman and the ottoman delegation in full military regalia trying to make small talk with a tattered overcoat wearing peasant the Russian delegation literally pulled off the street on their way to the meeting

reminds me of this anecdote from the Brest-Litovsk negotiations

# ? May 30, 2021 19:59

MLSM: Apr 3, 2021; by Azathoth

vyelkin posted:

also trotsky had the brilliant idea of "no war, no peace" which was basically neither sign a peace deal nor keep fighting and the germans said lol okay and just kept advancing into russia with no organized resistance until the bolsheviks figured out how stupid trotsky's idea was

He just wanted to wait until after the permanent revolution before organizing any resistance

# ? May 30, 2021 19:59

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 217 days!

AnimeIsTrash posted:

Do you think that trotsky would travel forward in time to prevent you from making posts like these?

lol like he would stop poo poo; he'd That Guy all over this thread, and we'd be unable to shut up

# ? May 30, 2021 20:12

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

vyelkin posted:

also trotsky had the brilliant idea of "no war, no peace" which was basically neither sign a peace deal nor keep fighting and the germans said lol okay and just kept advancing into russia with no organized resistance until the bolsheviks figured out how stupid trotsky's idea was

�To guarantee its survival.� This was the lodestar of Stalin�s foreign policy. If anyone still harbored illusions of broad fronts and possible alliances, then the foreign intervention in the civil war, the �cordon sanitaire�, and the long-term exclusion from international institutions were enough to clarify the actual relations with the outside world. Hence the dominant feature of Soviet foreign policy from the beginning: to negotiate with anyone. The agenda Lenin submitted to a vote on 22 February 1918, at a meeting of the Central Committee, during a phase (which quickly turned out to be fleeting) of the Brest-Litovsk negotiations (�Full powers will be given to Comrade Trotsky to accept the help of the French imperialist bandits against the German bandits�), is at the very least illuminating and clearly connotes this line of action and its assumptions.

# ? May 30, 2021 20:41

weast: Nov 7, 2012

The Voice of Labor posted:

any hint of inquiry into a better world or how to go about realizing it is dogpiled for two pages

if anything, john lennon is like the modern poster child for this

The Communist Manifesto posted:

The founders of these systems see, indeed, the class antagonisms, as well as the action of the decomposing elements in the prevailing form of society. But the proletariat, as yet in its infancy, offers to them the spectacle of a class without any historical initiative or any independent political movement.

Since the development of class antagonism keeps even pace with the development of industry, the economic situation, as they find it, does not as yet offer to them the material conditions for the emancipation of the proletariat. They therefore search after a new social science, after new social laws, that are to create these conditions.

Historical action is to yield to their personal inventive action; historically created conditions of emancipation to fantastic ones; and the gradual, spontaneous class organisation of the proletariat to an organisation of society especially contrived by these inventors. Future history resolves itself, in their eyes, into the propaganda and the practical carrying out of their social plans.

In the formation of their plans, they are conscious of caring chiefly for the interests of the working class, as being the most suffering class. Only from the point of view of being the most suffering class does the proletariat exist for them.

The undeveloped state of the class struggle, as well as their own surroundings, causes Socialists of this kind to consider themselves far superior to all class antagonisms. They want to improve the condition of every member of society, even that of the most favoured. Hence, they habitually appeal to society at large, without the distinction of class; nay, by preference, to the ruling class. For how can people, when once they understand their system, fail to see in it the best possible plan of the best possible state of society?

Hence, they reject all political, and especially all revolutionary action; they wish to attain their ends by peaceful means, necessarily doomed to failure, and by the force of example, to pave the way for the new social Gospel.

Such fantastic pictures of future society, painted at a time when the proletariat is still in a very undeveloped state and has but a fantastic conception of its own position, correspond with the first instinctive yearnings of that class for a general reconstruction of society.

But these Socialist and Communist publications contain also a critical element. They attack every principle of existing society. Hence, they are full of the most valuable materials for the enlightenment of the working class. The practical measures proposed in them � such as the abolition of the distinction between town and country, of the family, of the carrying on of industries for the account of private individuals, and of the wage system, the proclamation of social harmony, the conversion of the function of the state into a more superintendence of production � all these proposals point solely to the disappearance of class antagonisms which were, at that time, only just cropping up, and which, in these publications, are recognised in their earliest indistinct and undefined forms only. These proposals, therefore, are of a purely Utopian character.

The significance of Critical-Utopian Socialism and Communism bears an inverse relation to historical development. In proportion as the modern class struggle develops and takes definite shape, this fantastic standing apart from the contest, these fantastic attacks on it, lose all practical value and all theoretical justification. Therefore, although the originators of these systems were, in many respects, revolutionary, their disciples have, in every case, formed mere reactionary sects. They hold fast by the original views of their masters, in opposition to the progressive historical development of the proletariat. They, therefore, endeavour, and that consistently, to deaden the class struggle and to reconcile the class antagonisms. They still dream of experimental realisation of their social Utopias, of founding isolated �phalansteres�, of establishing �Home Colonies�, or setting up a �Little Icaria�(4) � duodecimo editions of the New Jerusalem � and to realise all these castles in the air, they are compelled to appeal to the feelings and purses of the bourgeois. By degrees, they sink into the category of the reactionary [or] conservative Socialists depicted above, differing from these only by more systematic pedantry, and by their fanatical and superstitious belief in the miraculous effects of their social science.

They, therefore, violently oppose all political action on the part of the working class; such action, according to them, can only result from blind unbelief in the new Gospel.

# ? May 30, 2021 21:02

John Charity Spring: Nov 4, 2009; SCREEEEE

john lennon was not killed for being Too Radical lmao

# ? May 30, 2021 21:05

Raskolnikov38: Mar 3, 2007; We were somewhere around Manila when the drugs began to take hold

lennon was a dipshit wife beater and the worst member of the beatles

# ? May 30, 2021 21:09

bagual: Oct 29, 2010; _{_{inconspicuous}}

The Voice of Labor posted:

john lennon felled by an assassin's bullet. judi bari, attempted assassination. I'm sure there are a bunch of other earth first and wto protestors who got suicided. all hippies and anarchists. this thread, allowed to live.

spooks don't give a gently caress about idealogies beyond knowing that they don't like it. I would also suggest that what determines a threat is how broad it's reach is.

food not bombs is allowed to exist because no one wants to eat beans. riot ribs is immediately cointelpro'ed because if you're giving out ribs and hamburgers and other desirable food stuffs, that represents a threat.

so yeah, this lovely thread is allowed to live because any hint of inquiry into a better world or how to go about realizing it is dogpiled for two pages

you come in talking about how hippies had the right idea using drugs and having sex, it's so dumb of course i'm gonna be pissed off, middle class cultural activists who achieved nothing are not revolutionary, lovely aid ngos' main function is laundering the conscience of first worlders, meanwhile a socialist political program actually eradicated extreme hunger in my country before being rolled back by reactionaries funded by the united states of america

living in the third world leaves me little patience for gringos wistfully reminiscing about that time they all got together and did nothing while torture raged across the continent, your mealy mouthed peacenik pop idols have nothing on victor jara, who had his hands smashed in so he wouldn't be able to play a guitar and his tongue cut off so he wouldn't sing, for four days they tortured him with cigarette burns and electric shocks before ultimately shooting his corpse into an unrecognizable mess. while your tragedies include that one time the national guard fired on students and activists being disappeared around here they were doing all that on top of openly machine-gunning football stadiums and dropping people from helicopters

if you can't take this level of discussion imagine trying to actually organize people in real life, woe is you having people call you out on your 70's nostalgia, that time when hippies and anarchists had all the power you're speaking of and left us all be brutalized anyway

you like music right? this is what it's all about, true revolutionary songs never die

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_xRSfjCyrg

# ? May 30, 2021 21:14

weast: Nov 7, 2012

Raskolnikov38 posted:

lennon was a dipshit wife beater and the worst member of the beatles

this too

# ? May 30, 2021 21:14

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

*moonbase alpha text to speech*

John Lennon John Lennon John Lennon John Lennon John Lennon John Lennon John Lennon John Lennon

# ? May 30, 2021 21:48

Centrist Committee: Aug 6, 2019

if doing drugs is revolutionary then the sacklers are comrades

# ? May 30, 2021 21:49

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

"The Voice of Labour": uh, drugs are cool y'all

# ? May 30, 2021 21:56

AnimeIsTrash: Jun 30, 2018

Congrats Ferrinus, for the first time someone other than you made the worst post on a given page.

# ? May 30, 2021 21:58

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

bagual posted:

you come in talking about how hippies had the right idea using drugs and having sex, it's so dumb of course i'm gonna be pissed off, middle class cultural activists who achieved nothing are not revolutionary, lovely aid ngos' main function is laundering the conscience of first worlders, meanwhile a socialist political program actually eradicated extreme hunger in my country before being rolled back by reactionaries funded by the united states of america

living in the third world leaves me little patience for gringos wistfully reminiscing about that time they all got together and did nothing while torture raged across the continent, your mealy mouthed peacenik pop idols have nothing on victor jara, who had his hands smashed in so he wouldn't be able to play a guitar and his tongue cut off so he wouldn't sing, for four days they tortured him with cigarette burns and electric shocks before ultimately shooting his corpse into an unrecognizable mess. while your tragedies include that one time the national guard fired on students and activists being disappeared around here they were doing all that on top of openly machine-gunning football stadiums and dropping people from helicopters

if you can't take this level of discussion imagine trying to actually organize people in real life, woe is you having people call you out on your 70's nostalgia, that time when hippies and anarchists had all the power you're speaking of and left us all be brutalized anyway

you like music right? this is what it's all about, true revolutionary songs never die

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_xRSfjCyrg

hippies and anarchist didnt actually have any actual power in the 70s though. and plenty of them became insane maoist cults and blew up poo poo over the 70s and that didnt do much either.

victor jara was also pretty clearly part of the more global boomer hippie generation folk music stuff, when he was murdered Dylan, Ochs, Seeger did a huge concert in his memory to help Chilean refugee etc.

hippies & new left were very clearly a failure and were very tainted by dumb american liberal individualism but writing them all off completely is a bit silly

# ? May 30, 2021 21:58

indigi: Jul 20, 2004; ^{how can we not talk about family

when family's all that we got?}

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

hippies and anarchist didnt actually have any actual power in the 70s though.

...

hippies & new left were very clearly a failure ... but writing them all off completely is a bit silly

doesn�t seem that silly

# ? May 30, 2021 22:00

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

AnimeIsTrash posted:

Congrats Ferrinus, for the first time someone other than you made the worst post on a given page.

was there some kind of symposium about chipmunk porn somewhere??? what on earth has been going on

# ? May 30, 2021 22:03

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

the freedom to post ccp (chipmunk child porn) is the cause celebre for cspam's liberal freedom fighters

# ? May 30, 2021 22:04

The Voice of Labor: Apr 8, 2020

bagual posted:

if you can't take this level of discussion imagine trying to actually organize people in real life, woe is you having people call you out on your 70's nostalgia, that time when hippies and anarchists had all the power you're speaking of and left us all be brutalized anyway

pacifica radio, pot growers and environmental activists represent a substantial part of the american left for, like most of the 80's and 90's. if anyone in the u.s. knew or cared about what was going on in south america, or asia or even within the united states it was because they were hippies or hippy adjacent. so broaden that, make it so that anti-interventionism/anti-imperialism is considered the normal position rather than the extreme far left position. why does this notion trouble you so much?

# ? May 30, 2021 22:05

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

The Voice of Labor posted:

pacifica radio, pot growers and environmental activists represent a substantial part of the american left for, like most of the 80's and 90's. if anyone in the u.s. knew or cared about what was going on in south america, or asia or even within the united states it was because they were hippies or hippy adjacent. so broaden that, make it so that anti-interventionism/anti-imperialism is considered the normal position rather than the extreme far left position. why does this notion trouble you so much?

what the gently caress are you even talking about?

# ? May 30, 2021 22:13

Trash Ops: Jun 19, 2012; im having fun, isnt everyone else?

lol pot grower vanguard baby LETS FUCKKNG GOOOO

# ? May 30, 2021 22:17

i say swears online: Mar 4, 2005

The Voice of Labor posted:

pacifica radio, pot growers and environmental activists represent a substantial part of the american left for, like most of the 80's and 90's. if anyone in the u.s. knew or cared about what was going on in south america, or asia or even within the united states it was because they were hippies or hippy adjacent. so broaden that, make it so that anti-interventionism/anti-imperialism is considered the normal position rather than the extreme far left position. why does this notion trouble you so much?

don't harsh my mellow man

# ? May 30, 2021 22:18

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

indigi posted:

doesn�t seem that silly

idk i just like fortunate son ok

# ? May 30, 2021 22:19

comedyblissoption: Mar 15, 2006

anarchohippie industrial commune

# ? May 30, 2021 22:24

Southpaugh: May 26, 2007; Smokey Bacon

Ferrinus posted:

was there some kind of symposium about chipmunk porn somewhere??? what on earth has been going on

top couple of threads in QCS should clear it up for you. It's been pretty funny.

# ? May 30, 2021 22:28

bagual: Oct 29, 2010; _{_{inconspicuous}}

Sheng-Ji Yang posted:

hippies and anarchist didnt actually have any actual power in the 70s though. and plenty of them became insane maoist cults and blew up poo poo over the 70s and that didnt do much either.

victor jara was also pretty clearly part of the more global boomer hippie generation folk music stuff, when he was murdered Dylan, Ochs, Seeger did a huge concert in his memory to help Chilean refugee etc.

hippies & new left were very clearly a failure and were very tainted by dumb american liberal individualism but writing them all off completely is a bit silly

i was mentioning the power the voice of labor assigned to hippies and anarchists, to inspire and gather the masses and whatever, but you're right i went a bit too far on the hyperbole, the world is better for having these people than if they never existed

just pissed off at this starry eyed romantization of a mixed bag, loving john lennon lmao

The Voice of Labor posted:

pacifica radio, pot growers and environmental activists represent a substantial part of the american left for, like most of the 80's and 90's. if anyone in the u.s. knew or cared about what was going on in south america, or asia or even within the united states it was because they were hippies or hippy adjacent. so broaden that, make it so that anti-interventionism/anti-imperialism is considered the normal position rather than the extreme far left position. why does this notion trouble you so much?

like, it's ok that they raised awareness, it's just i don't see the point in looking up to a group of people that may have changed cultural norms in the first world but never even got close to actually challenging imperial power

a lot of emphasis on peace and love and poo poo like that in hippie circles, but we don't want no peace, no universal brotherhood with the people killing us

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bOZQZAX4deM

# ? May 30, 2021 22:28

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

lennon was definitely the most embarrassing of the hippies. Bed-ins for Peace was one of the aabsolute dumbest things in history

# ? May 30, 2021 22:32

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Remember when Ad Busters put out the call for action that became Occupy and it immediately got away from them, or how the DSA was transformed almost completely from its Harringtonian roots? All the legacies of the left from the 80s & 90s were so useless that when a new mass of people became interested in socialism or left wing radicalism, they immediately started moving in a completely different direction from what came before. Voice of Labor frames this like it's a marathon race, but it's more like the hippies and pot growers were running in the wrong direction and now the contemporary left has to make up for lost time re-figuring everything out.

None of this is to say that Occupy or DSA are great or anything, but even complex life had to start from the primordial ooze.

Pener Kropoopkin has issued a correction as of 22:40 on May 30, 2021

# ? May 30, 2021 22:38

Sheng-Ji Yang: Mar 5, 2014

Ferrinus posted:

was there some kind of symposium about chipmunk porn somewhere??? what on earth has been going on

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1vy_GdpfUg

# ? May 30, 2021 22:43

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

Pener Kropoopkin posted:

Remember when Ad Busters put out the call for action that became Occupy and it immediately got away from them,

i either didn't know or completely forgot this about occupy, that's funny

# ? May 30, 2021 22:49

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Even the godawful "peoples' microphone" was too much of a government for them, which is part of why the "activists" responsible for CHAZ made sure it'd have no governing whatsoever.

# ? May 30, 2021 22:53

weast: Nov 7, 2012

Trash Ops posted:

lol pot grower vanguard baby LETS FUCKKNG GOOOO

wait are you telling me dsa doesn�t stand for drug sellers of america?

# ? May 30, 2021 23:00

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# ? May 23, 2024 12:07

Pener Kropoopkin: Jan 30, 2013

Do Sex Alot

# ? May 30, 2021 23:01

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