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 gently caress MATH ITS NOT REAL
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Jun 3, 2021 01:14
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Gaius Marius posted:explains the cromwell defender at least It really varies. When I lived in CT there was a reconstructed wigwam we took a field trip to, but when I lived in TX, there wasn't really any mention of native americans beyond a mention in the textbook that the class never actually touched on about the Pueblos, who lived way out west in New Mexico, and nothing about the Comanche, who might've been the last North American native nation to fall and ran a pretty impressive empire. But really, what the South spends more of its effort on is downplaying slavery, covering up reconstruction (and especially the terrorism against and in some cases, literal coups of reconstruction governments), generating some kind of nostalgia for a classical image of the South, and trying to draw distance between current power structures and the fight against civil rights. even if they're begrudgingly forced to acknowledge Jim Crow. I assume there are specific subjects that the UK wants to downplay or revise, but I don't really know what they are. I know some of the British are really nostalgic for the Empire, but there's gotta be other things as well.
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Jun 3, 2021 02:18
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SlothfulCobra posted:It really varies. When I lived in CT there was a reconstructed wigwam we took a field trip to, but when I lived in TX, there wasn't really any mention of native americans beyond a mention in the textbook that the class never actually touched on about the Pueblos, who lived way out west in New Mexico, and nothing about the Comanche, who might've been the last North American native nation to fall and ran a pretty impressive empire. That's the exact opposite of what I got in bible belt rear end west Texas. The first semester of Texas history was mexican and texas natives, the second semester was half Alamo bullshit and half "here's why slavery was bad" (yes this is a bit contradictory)
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Jun 3, 2021 02:23
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SlothfulCobra posted:It really varies. When I lived in CT there was a reconstructed wigwam we took a field trip to, but when I lived in TX, there wasn't really any mention of native americans beyond a mention in the textbook that the class never actually touched on about the Pueblos, who lived way out west in New Mexico, and nothing about the Comanche, who might've been the last North American native nation to fall and ran a pretty impressive empire. Pequot museum? We did that too.
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Jun 3, 2021 02:28
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(Post-)Soviet education system is insane. You start learning history in 4th grade and finish in 8th... Then you start over in 9th grade and finish in 11th. If you go to the university you get the course again even in STEM specialty. If you're lucky you get a separate course of WW2 history.
ilitarist fucked around with this message at 08:44 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 07:25
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Davincie posted:the number of 430k isn't taken seriously by anyone and the roman time is quite well liked here! 150k-200k is still pretty bad http://www.ancient-origins.net/news-history-archaeology/150000-fled-their-lives-were-slaughtered-julius-caesar-army-bones-reveal-020659
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Jun 3, 2021 07:34
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Koramei posted:The country formerly had a man as ruler. For some seventy or eighty years after that there were disturbances and warfare. Therupon the people agreed upon a woman for their ruler. Her name was Himiko. She occupied herself with magic and sorcery, bewitching the people. Though mature in age, she remained unmarried. She had a younger brother who assisted her in ruling the country. After she became the ruler, there were few who saw her. She had one thousand women as attendants, but only one man. He served her food and drink and acted as a medium of communication. She resided in a palace surrounded by towers and stockades, with armed guards in a state of constant vigilance. Sounds like an excellent subject for a fantasy movie. Charlz Guybon fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 07:38
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In Germany, we went through pretty chronologically in the first years of history class, touched on prehistory, ancient Rome, Middle Ages, a bit of Napoleon and springtime of nations, and then WW2. Then for every single year after that, we went through WW2 again. I think a few times we might have gone back to Medieval stuff as well.
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Jun 3, 2021 09:58
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UK education also varies depending on which part of the UK you're in, since Scotland and Northern Ireland have different education systems from England and Wales. My history education went, basically, The History of Glasgow and the Clydebank Blitz in primary school, and then in secondary school we covered an ethnographic history of Scotland, the Scottish Reformation, Tenement Life (social history of 19th and 20th century Scotland), the causes of WWI and Nazi Germany and the Holocaust (focusing on the demise of the Wiemar Republic and the anti-Jewish laws passed by the Nazis as they came to power). If you count Classical studies we covered the fall of the Roman Republic too. As to history teachers, I do remember our teacher opening the course on Scotland's ethnographic history with a weird take on how the Scots were a "mongrel race", on account of all the various ethnicities which had come to the country from Norse to Irish to Indian and Pakistani, and that like a mongrel dog, this made us a better and healthier society than one focused on purity that refused to accept its immigrants as part of itself. Which, like, I agree with the general sentiment on accepting others, but that's a bit of a questionable choice of phrasing!
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Jun 3, 2021 10:35
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My UK history education covered, bizarrely, the conflict in Chechnya, and the evolution of medical techniques between Ancient Greece and the Medieval period. There's no logic to it at all really. Some guy working for an exam board somewhere just comes up with a theme that he thinks sounds cool, and now for the rest of my life I can tell you about Asklepios and Galen.
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Jun 3, 2021 10:48
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In the UK I think there's a set of things teachers are allowed to pick from, development of medicine, Weimar Germany, etc. So it's kinda standardised but you could just miss out something entirely if the school / teacher decided not to go with one of them. Edit: knock yourself out https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/national-curriculum-in-england-history-programmes-of-study I think Key Stage 3 is after students get to choose to continue doing history or not, so all that stuff gets missed by most. Fellblade fucked around with this message at 10:56 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 10:50
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My favourite GCSE history module was the Wild West, it went over class conflict between large scale ranchers and small farmers
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Jun 3, 2021 11:15
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Fellblade posted:In the UK I think there's a set of things teachers are allowed to pick from, development of medicine, Weimar Germany, etc. So it's kinda standardised but you could just miss out something entirely if the school / teacher decided not to go with one of them. at least one study of a significant society or issue in world history and its interconnections with other world developments [for example, Mughal India 1526-1857; China’s Qing dynasty 1644-1911; Changing Russian empires c.1800-1989; USA in the 20th century] "And now for something completely different" I can understand the intent: you show the complexity of the world and history by using a completely new subject with very little connection to Britain. But it probably breaks student's minds when after the end of British history they switch to a palace coup against Pavel I.
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Jun 3, 2021 11:23
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Here in a strongly democratic part of the northern US (detroit area), my two main history/government teachers were 1) a skinhead who loved forcing his students to go along with his running jokes and would punish those who didn't. He also not surprisingly would go on about how important a strong authoritative hand was to maintaining rule of law. And 2) some fresh college grad who kept a framed portrait of ronald reagan in the classroom at all times and would go on endlessly about how he was the greatest president ever, while also ruthlessly bullying the largest girl in the class on account of her weight. He's now the vice principle of that district's middle school and quite large himself. All I really gathered about US and world history was that america was the greatest country in the world obviously, with the most superior form of government out of any other attempt at democracy, and that every single good thing that happened in the world over the last 400 years was thanks entirely to us (as the US or as the 13 colonies). I'm not really exaggerating, this is what we were taught. We didn't learn about anything that happened before the colonization of america other than the broadest of broad strokes. Anyway, I graduated from that in 2004 knowing it was all bullshit but still having no real knowledge of any actual history, and a few months later dubya won his second term, so I just became hopelessly jaded and disinterested in politics and history in general. It ended up being Paradox's games that first taught me about actual history a few years later. I understood that it was a gamefied, largely eurocentric version of it, but it was enough to get me deeply interested in all kinds of history, so I'm eternally grateful to Paradox for that. There was one other history teacher in our school who was by all accounts a super cool and dedicated teacher who had been teaching at the same school for 30 years, but i wasn't lucky enough to get him. oh well. Education really is a crapshoot here.
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Jun 3, 2021 11:33
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Napoleon, who had a 20-year military career that spanned, literally, from Lisbon to Moscow and from Hamburg to Cairo, was involved in warfare on a scale that was never seen before. People dying during a war is an unfortunate occurrence, but Cromwell actively starved, enslaved, and forced the movement of thousands of Irishmen to pacify the region. The French are rightfully attacked for their brutal occupation of Spain, for putting people up against the wall on arbitrary accusations, and for living off the land in Italy and Germany, with expensive consequences for the locals. As such, it's completely understandable that as a result, the body count might be enormous while still not being a genocide. Repressing guerrilla movements harshly does not count as genocide, no matter how much of an Anglo hatred you might have over the French. Cromwell, at best, caused the deaths of 200 thousand Irishmen, and around fifty thousand more were sent to slavery, out of a population of barely half a million. These are horrifying numbers. Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:Education really is a crapshoot here. Here in Portugal, we got a decent (for high school) overview of the political structures of feudal monarchy, absolutism, constitutional monarchy, and republican separations of power. But then...the rest is basically "how did Rome or Cartage interact with Portugal, ignore the rest of their history", a long list of masturbatory battles where the plucky Portuguese beat the odds against the Spaniards, the Muslims or the French and the colonial period is turned into an afternoon adventure where we discover fun places. Hell, the way we talked about bandeirantes is how a bunch of Portuguese just grabbed some flags and ventured into the interior of Brazil, explained almost like a bunch of bored boyscouts who just wanted to travel and see pretty waterfalls. The "they were the fundamental form grabbing native slaves" is conveniently left aside. In fact, when we developed an infernal colonial war, responsible for the death of hundreds of thousands of Africans, the emphasis is on how so many thousands of Portuguese soldiers returned home with PTSD and how, after the war, so many whites had to return to Portugal. It's revolting.
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Jun 3, 2021 13:04
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Fellblade posted:In the UK I think there's a set of things teachers are allowed to pick from, development of medicine, Weimar Germany, etc. So it's kinda standardised but you could just miss out something entirely if the school / teacher decided not to go with one of them. And the Key stage 3 stuff is broader than exam boards actually present. Schools pick an exam board for thier GCSE history courses, and those exam boards offer papers on certain topics. For example, if you take Edexcel GCSE History, a common choice, you'll spend your 13-16 years learning about 3 seperate topics. Paper 1: Thematic study and historic environment posted:Students take one of the following options: Paper 2: Period study and British depth study posted:
Paper 3: Modern depth study posted:Students take one of the following modern depth studies: The school picks which of those options you do, not you. So you can see how you not learn about Cromwell in school at all, or many other gaps in historical knowledge (Americans always seem to get quite suprised no-one cares about the American War of Independence in the UK, P2 isn't popular). Meanwhile, you have a ideally deeper understanding of other topics, and a better understanding of the historical process rather than learning lists of dates and names. It's a choice in what you want to teach children and what you think is most important for them to know and believe.
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Jun 3, 2021 13:16
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Mans posted:The French are rightfully attacked for their brutal occupation of Spain, for putting people up against the wall on arbitrary accusations, and for living off the land in Italy and Germany, with expensive consequences for the locals. And still, after someone had explained that there's an objective reason for someone to not be considered a heroic figure it's not reflected in popular perception. Here's a list someone else mentioned: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/100_Greatest_Britons It's from 2002 so it's a little dated, but the controversial person on the list was apparently Aleister Crowley, while Cromwell is in 10th place right under Nelson.
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Jun 3, 2021 13:27
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Gaius Marius posted:I've heard talk that the way the US is forcing Algebra earlier and earlier into the Curriculum is counter intuitive and damaging. I can't really take a stance because I can't do math for poo poo. But I know Elementary students that are being taught basic algebra You would see some in 3rd grade in USSR, possibly 2nd.
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Jun 3, 2021 13:35
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In the late 90s, US history in Rhode Island was a two year course in 9th and 10th grade. First year was Colonization to Reconstruction. Second year was Reconstruction to ... I think we got up to the Moon landing and Nixon. Not sure if that was the end of that book, but we got pretty close. The course were chronological and pretty in depth. When I got my teaching degree in 2009 the curriculum hadn't really changed.
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Jun 3, 2021 14:47
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ilitarist posted:And still, after someone had explained that there's an objective reason for someone to not be considered a heroic figure it's not reflected in popular perception. Here's a list someone else mentioned: I think this is mostly just again the confusion between great and good. They are not synonyms, and should not be treated as such. For example, for a worldwide list of the greatest people in the past 100 years, Stalin would undeniably be in the top 100 (probably top 10), and I really hate the guy. Greatness is about your influence on the world. That influence does not need to be positive. (Literally the only reason Hitler won't qualify is because in 6 years he took Germany from being one of the most important powers in the world to being the least important power in Berlin. Had he somehow won, he would be on the list, even with all the horrors that would entail.)
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Jun 3, 2021 15:59
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https://twitter.com/dril/status/831805955402776576
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Jun 3, 2021 16:01
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PDX thread 2037: I can't believe they did a meme ISIS focus tree before they fixed Brazil or Nigeria
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Jun 3, 2021 16:02
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Tuna-Fish posted:I think this is mostly just again the confusion between great and good. They are not synonyms, and should not be treated as such. For example, for a worldwide list of the greatest people in the past 100 years, Stalin would undeniably be in the top 100 (probably top 10), and I really hate the guy. Greatness is about your influence on the world. That influence does not need to be positive.
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Jun 3, 2021 16:16
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A Buttery Pastry posted:This confusion is included in the polling itself though. If you ask the general public this sort of question it's more like [Popularity] x [Impact]. The inclusion of Diana makes that pretty obvious. Yeah the fact that the list has Thatcher above Alexander Fleming kind of says a lot.
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Jun 3, 2021 21:57
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OctaviusBeaver posted:Aren't they pretty touchy about the fact that Best China did the vast majority of the fighting against the Japanese? "Best" ""Fighting"" """Majority""" """"Against the Japanese""""
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Jun 3, 2021 22:11
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I get that this is SA and we must aggressively stan anyone with a red flag, but the literal 1+ million people who literally died in combat against the japanese invaders of their country, while in a KMT or KMT-adjacent uniform, would probably have a word or two to say about how they "fought" "lol" if they didn't die fighting you know. but their flag had the wrong colours and chiang kai-shek sucked, read marx!!! fuckin fascist idiots. Edgar Allen Ho fucked around with this message at 22:18 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 22:15
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I get that this is SA and we must aggressively stan anyone with a red flag, but the literal 1+ million people who literally died in combat against the japanese invaders of their country, while in a KMT or KMT-adjacent uniform, would probably have a word or two to say about how they "fought" "lol" They would also have a word or two to say about being thrown into battle without being paid for months, without supplies or even without barely any ammo, which is why they told the KMT to mostly go gently caress themselves after the war.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:18
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Mans posted:They would also have a word or two to say about being thrown into battle without being paid for months, without supplies or even without barely any ammo, which is why they told the KMT to mostly go gently caress themselves after the war. Did I say anything about the KMT being good?
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Jun 3, 2021 22:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I get that this is SA and we must aggressively stan anyone with a red flag, but the literal 1+ million people who literally died in combat against the japanese invaders of their country, while in a KMT or KMT-adjacent uniform, would probably have a word or two to say about how they "fought" "lol" The KMT's complete and utter failure to mount a meaningful defense against Japan is even noted by sympathetic scholars but go off. Acute Grill fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 22:22
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I get that this is SA and we must aggressively stan anyone with a red flag, but the literal 1+ million people who literally died in combat against the japanese invaders of their country, while in a KMT or KMT-adjacent uniform, would probably have a word or two to say about how they "fought" "lol" On the other hand Chiang-Kai-Shek had to be arrested and forced to fight the Japanese at literal gunpoint by his own officers.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:23
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vibe check
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Jun 3, 2021 22:23
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:I get that this is SA and we must aggressively stan anyone with a red flag, but the literal 1+ million people who literally died in combat against the japanese invaders of their country, while in a KMT or KMT-adjacent uniform, would probably have a word or two to say about how they "fought" "lol" both sides famously spent more time fighting each other than the Japanese once the west was drawn into the second sino-Japanese war
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Jun 3, 2021 22:26
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:Did I say anything about the KMT being good? I'm just saying that the concept of "best china" in the context of 30 and 40's china is a really silly take when even some Warlords could be pretty cool and efficient compared to the central government.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:32
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Raskolnikov38 posted:both sides famously spent more time fighting each other than the Japanese once the west was drawn into the second sino-Japanese war Chiang was the real hero by... blowing up some dams that killed more of his own people than the invading Japanese who weren't even showed down.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:40
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the kmt sucked so hard that multiple members of the us military and media, independently of each other, recommended the us start sending funds and material to the ccp instead
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Jun 3, 2021 22:42
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It's true that Mao specifically pursued a policy of not engaging with Japanese, but that's probably related to the fact that the Communists were a guerilla force that got absolutely rinsed every time they tried to fight any sort of conventional battle. Xue Yue might have been the most effective general the Chinese had when it came to fighting the Japanese.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:45
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Acute Grill posted:The KMT's complete and utter failure to mount a meaningful defense against Japan is even noted by sympathetic scholars but go off. If it was a complete and utter failure they wouldn't still have been fighting in 1945. Fighting a modern country as an essentially pre-industrial one is always going to suck, at least they tried unlike the reds.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:55
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OctaviusBeaver posted:they tried lol
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Jun 3, 2021 23:00
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I stan the Ma Clique.
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Jun 3, 2021 23:05
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DrSunshine posted:I stan the Ma Clique. Only cowards don't smelt steel in their apartment
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Jun 3, 2021 23:09
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