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Grand Fromage posted:Yep. Chinese healthcare is also completely privatized like the US and has the same problems of medical bankruptcy and most people not being able to afford treatment if they get seriously ill. There are fairly cheap public hospitals, but literally no one wants to go to those because you're going to be waiting absolutely forever for terrible care, in the best case scenario. There are also fun China-specific things like a lot of hospitals (most?) don't really have nursing staff the same way as a US one, so if you're in the hospital for a while, someone from your family has to be there to take care of you because nobody else is going to do it. Does China also do the thing where you have no way of knowing what treatment is going to cost until you get the bill(s)?
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Jun 4, 2021 00:26
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The Moon Monster posted:Does China also do the thing where you have no way of knowing what treatment is going to cost until you get the bill(s)? not really. The insurance industry is why that goes on in the US. There was an article I read about a high end private hospital that basically gave you a sale person who followed you around and upsold tests and what not including a group of men who paid for a circumcision and while the doctor was doing it the doctor upsold them on getting some nervs cut. This group of men tried to organize a protest and basically got shoved into vans
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Jun 4, 2021 00:38
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The Moon Monster posted:Does China also do the thing where you have no way of knowing what treatment is going to cost until you get the bill(s)? That I don't know, I fortunately never had to go to a doctor in China. The couple times I got sinus infections I just got myself some OTC antibiotics and took care of it rather than roll the dice on hospitals + whether my insurance would actually cover anything. I decided early on if I really needed help I'd go to Thailand or Korea. Ups_rail posted:not really. The insurance industry is why that goes on in the US. Health insurance in China is also all private. There's not even a Medicaid/Medicare equivalent. Their version of that is the public hospital system, which is... better than nothing I guess, but real bad even compared to the US. Grand Fromage fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 00:42
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 Here is a picture that shows nothing happening, but it shows that nothing happening from a different angle than the famous picture of nothing happening.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:08
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BrigadierSensible posted:
That doesn't look like nothing happening, but it is just another example of how seriously Beijingers take exercise as two men go for a friendly jog together rather than ride a bike as they normally do. A perfectly normal day in Beijing where nothing happens.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:27
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The Moon Monster posted:Does China also do the thing where you have no way of knowing what treatment is going to cost until you get the bill(s)? In anything apart from an imminently life-threatening emergency, you pay up-front, so no. I've been through the public health system a few times. It's fine for minor or simple stuff, it just doesn't do well for complex, surgical things. There is a measure of public healthcare, in that part of your monthly salary is paid into a health-fund, which stacks up. Since almost everyone has (some sort of) job, and there's a minimum addition per month if your salary is below the cutoff, almost everyone has access to basic medical care without worry. The key thing is, for a normal person, the first major/complex medical problem will wipe out years of that health-fund, so the second one is what gets you and/or your family finances. The overall result is that people have reasonable access to healthcare until late middle age, at which point middle-class and above people run the risk of getting their finances wiped, while poor people run the risk of just dying. Better than the US system, but worse than developed countries. Edit: Also happy Completely Normal Day!
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Jun 4, 2021 01:37
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Atopian posted:almost everyone has access to basic medical care without worry. Assuming you ignore the hundreds of millions of rural people who don't have a hospital at all, anyway. Much like the national government does.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:40
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Grand Fromage posted:Assuming you ignore the hundreds of millions of rural people who don't have a hospital at all, anyway. Much like the national government does. Ha, true. I was thinking about it in terms of cash. Perhaps it would be better to say "almost everyone can afford basic medical care without worry, assuming there is actually medical care available anywhere near them."
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Jun 4, 2021 01:45
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Yeah. Like many things in China, if you're in the cities it's not that bad. But the majority of the population doesn't live that life and gets forgotten by everybody.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:48
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BrigadierSensible posted:
The fellow on the left is smiling. Therefore nothing bad could be happening.
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Jun 4, 2021 05:44
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barbecue at the folks posted:If anyone has any at hand, I would actually be interested in reading actual research on what influences attitudes towards family size. Outside certain religious denominations it really does seem that when living conditions are somewhat secure and women have access to education, people gravitate towards only having one or two kids. It would be nice to see if the reason is some sociological causality of the form "modernity = Western-style nuclear family" or some biological trait, or a mix of the above My understanding is that the strongest indicator of birth rates falling is women's education but I don't think there is or really could be evidence to suggest whether the root cause is primarily social or biological. Nessus posted:I believe Iran went from 6 per woman to 1.8 per woman in a single generation, and this under the tender mercies of patriarchy. As opposed to all those states that aren't dominated by patriarchy?
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Jun 4, 2021 10:27
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So why is the CCP so opposed to more rural-to-urban migration? There's no lack of housing, and an urban rando is presumably more economically productive than a rural one.
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Jun 4, 2021 12:46
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Brutal Garcon posted:So why is the CCP so opposed to more rural-to-urban migration? There's no lack of housing, and an urban rando is presumably more economically productive than a rural one. it's more profitable to have an underclass of "illegal" workers that you can exploit, much like in the unnamed country
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Jun 4, 2021 12:53
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barbecue at the folks posted:If anyone has any at hand, I would actually be interested in reading actual research on what influences attitudes towards family size. Outside certain religious denominations it really does seem that when living conditions are somewhat secure and women have access to education, people gravitate towards only having one or two kids. It would be nice to see if the reason is some sociological causality of the form "modernity = Western-style nuclear family" or some biological trait, or a mix of the above https://youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DFACK2knC08E&ved Tl;Dr: everything you suggest is basically right. All we have to do is keep doing what we're doing with education and contraception
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Jun 4, 2021 13:03
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GoutPatrol posted:happy Taylor swift day everyone If China was able to harness the creative output of this day, they would be laughing.
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Jun 4, 2021 13:15
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Brutal Garcon posted:So why is the CCP so opposed to more rural-to-urban migration? There's no lack of housing, and an urban rando is presumably more economically productive than a rural one. Judging by their policies and statements, the central government is generally quite happy with it, and want the population in cities while leaving only necessary staff in rural areas. But, they have to *go* somewhere, and the city authorities aren't particularly keen to give large quantities of hukou (complicated things but in this sense, area-specific residence permits) to large quantities of what they see as unqualified rando hicks. While China, like the USA, often pretends that very real class divides don't exist, one that is universally acknowledged is the split between rural and urban, and there is genuine friction between the two during any sort of mixing / acclimatisation. So you have the general stance that cities should allow people from rural areas to permanently settle there, but the cities themselves put restrictive requirements on this, like X years of continuous employment at (higher salary than rural migrants can typically make), and in the meantime those people are unable to access important types of welfare and, critically, *local school places for their children*. So, the cities get an exploitable labour force, the central government gets a headache, and rural migrants get exploited.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:06
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If they fully dropped the hukou, literally everyone who can would move into the cities, and the city authorities understandably balk at the idea of their population of 22 million expanding to 50 million in a couple years. Hukou is one of the most intractable problems since it's wildly hosed up and exploitative, and I also see why they keep it. There is nothing in rural China, no one wants to be there, but 700 million people trying to jam themselves into the cities would also be a nightmare. The only way to get rid of hukou without it being a disaster would be to develop the rural areas into places people actually want to live. I don't think China has the resources to do that, or the will. Atopian posted:and in the meantime those people are unable to access important types of welfare and, critically, *local school places for their children*. And this is why 70% of kids in China are in rural nowhere being raised by their grandparents and not being fed or educated, another issue that definitely won't cause any problems at all in the future.
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Jun 4, 2021 16:58
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From what I've seen of my brother-in-law's kid who's in rural Dongbei, they're being educated just fine. If by education you mean nationalist CCP propaganda.
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Jun 4, 2021 17:13
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If you're interested in it in a broader data sense, I recommend this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/51941583-invisible-china It will not fill you with confidence about rural China. Education-wise, China has the lowest performance of any developing country by a significant margin.
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Jun 4, 2021 17:16
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Grand Fromage posted:And this is why 70% of kids in China are in rural nowhere being raised by their grandparents and not being fed or educated, another issue that definitely won't cause any problems at all in the future. Something like #8 on the list of "reasons to keep a go-bag".
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Jun 4, 2021 17:18
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It's crazy to think that while rural China's areas probably aren't thay much worse than some of rural US in the Appalachians that there's far, far more people living those conditions than in the US.
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Jun 4, 2021 18:39
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I mean, if you select a few rural US counties from the rustiest parts of the rust belt they basically have the same statistics as a middling African country so that’s not saying much.
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Jun 4, 2021 19:40
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There's something contagious about China, or maybe it just attracts a very certain kind of rear end in a top hat. A Finnish guy who works for Huawei Finland (he works out of their office in China) as some kind of cybersecurity executive came out with this amazing take today: we should go to a 7 day work week. He's upset that Finland (population 5,5 million) have fallen behind the United States (population 328 million) and China (population 1,3 billion). "If we moved to a seven day work week immediately, we could catch up to the USA and China". He would also eliminate summer holidays (practically everyone in Finland has a one month paid vacation). "I myself work 80 hour weeks constantly and I haven't taken a summer vacation in 23 years." Shortly afterwards Huawei Finland disowned him. Maybe he'll be working for just Huawei soon?
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Jun 4, 2021 19:47
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ChaseSP posted:It's crazy to think that while rural China's areas probably aren't thay much worse than some of rural US in the Appalachians that there's far, far more people living those conditions than in the US. You go 30 minutes outside a Chinese city and it looks like Fallout. People picking through ruins on donkey carts, no electricity, no water. There's not much of the US that's as bad as what I've seen of rural China, and what I've seen of rural China would be among the richer parts. China's rural poverty is just on another level. And it makes up around 1/8th of the entire planet's population.
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Jun 4, 2021 19:56
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Grand Fromage posted:Hukou is one of the most intractable problems since it's wildly hosed up and exploitative, and I also see why they keep it. There is nothing in rural China, no one wants to be there, but 700 million people trying to jam themselves into the cities would also be a nightmare. The only way to get rid of hukou without it being a disaster would be to develop the rural areas into places people actually want to live. I don't think China has the resources to do that, or the will. Maybe they should let people govern themselves in a federal system and people would focus on making the places that they live better rather than making the places where the oligarchs live better Federalism was basically conceived as a way to effectively govern really big countries and China would benefit immensely from it but lol @ the CCP
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Jun 4, 2021 20:32
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how did that work out for the united states of america
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Jun 4, 2021 20:40
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goblin week posted:how did that work out for the united states of america
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Jun 4, 2021 20:44
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goblin week posted:how did that work out for the united states of america Hmm excellent post 
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Jun 4, 2021 20:45
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Fojar38 posted:Maybe they should let people govern themselves in a federal system and people would focus on making the places that they live better rather than making the places where the oligarchs live better structurally the #1 goal of the ccp must be to avoid civil war. geopolitical threats to the ccp in the modern day are all through insane mountains trackless deserts or the ocean, besides nuclear war for which you just need mad and the second strike, the biggest threats are internal by a lot. thats why the pla works the way it does and has the attitudes that it does federalism is basically a civil war making machine. you have the two sides of the civil war right there: the feds vs the states. thats how it worked out for america, and thats prolly how it would work out for china.
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Jun 4, 2021 21:10
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My wife is from dirt farm rural China and she's done quite well for herself education-wise. Being an ethnic-minority might help with that? Or location? She mostly shipped out to like boarding schools (public but the kids sleep over in dorms) since middle school. Her grandfather drilled an education ethic into her. She's never considered her Chinese Bachelors degree a real degree.
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Jun 4, 2021 21:24
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Shaman Tank Spec posted:There's something contagious about China, or maybe it just attracts a very certain kind of rear end in a top hat. A Finnish guy who works for Huawei Finland (he works out of their office in China) as some kind of cybersecurity executive came out with this amazing take today: we should go to a 7 day work week. People who are obsessed with number go up often want to revert to 1890s standards of labour. E: wait until he realizes kids can work a primate fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 21:44
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goblin week posted:how did that work out for the united states of america there are countries with federal systems that aren't the united states of america hth
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Jun 4, 2021 22:01
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Name them
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Jun 4, 2021 22:02
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bob dobbs is dead posted:federalism is basically a civil war making machine To the CCP anything that isn't a totalitarian surveillance state is a civil war making machine and this is one of the reasons China has so many of the problems that it does.
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Jun 4, 2021 22:04
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OK so this might be an odd one but I'm curious how things turned out after all these years. Does anyone remember when all the pet food that was coming from china started killing pets? I'm not sure of the exact number but I do know that my dog got really really sick from it and I almost lost her. I seem to remember a lot of pet food companies moving their production back to the US after that but has it shifted back to china again or is that a lost cause at this point?
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Jun 4, 2021 22:29
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Dandywalken posted:Name them Switzerland is one example of an extremely small federal government that, more or less, works well.
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Jun 4, 2021 22:33
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goblin week posted:how did that work out for the united states of america Well enough, I guess. So far. Hey let's see if the CCP is able to go for 250 years.
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Jun 4, 2021 22:47
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MarcusSA posted:OK so this might be an odd one but I'm curious how things turned out after all these years. 08-09 I believe. fake edit: 2007 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_pet_food_recalls
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Jun 4, 2021 22:54
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Shinmera posted:Switzerland is one example of an extremely small federal government that, more or less, works well. Belgium smaller I think?
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Jun 4, 2021 22:56
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MrMoo posted:Belgium smaller I think? Belgium does not work well by any measure lmao
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Jun 4, 2021 23:06
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