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it seems entirely appropriate to me that tld has a cap on some resources and honestly its weird they dont have a cap on more of them since the survival challenge is more along the lines of "as long as you can" rather than being especially hard to reach being self-sustaining. i also cant comprehend why anyone would care if they havent hit some insane 500+ day interloper save
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Jun 4, 2021 00:36
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HelloSailorSign posted:The idea that life sustaining resources are finite grates on me as well (seeing as I tend to play games for escapism) and were one of the things that kept me from getting into Project Zomboid back in the day. While it makes sense that more advanced material would decay/be used up and be gone, it's not like society didn't exist before nails. There's a lot of settings in Zomboid that make things sustainable - you can easily live off of farmed produce, gas stations have either infinite or nearly infinite gasoline (have to power them with a generator once the power is cut though), zombies drop clothes that can be used to patch up your clothes as they are torn up, and can also drop weapons. You can set up the map to repopulate after a certain amount of time has passed without you nearby as well (I believe this is on by default). There's also the hydrocraft mod, which is a bit of a cluttered mess that takes the approach of putting everything and the kitchen sink into one mod, but it allows you to eventually make and replicate nearly everything in the game using various production chains from the ground up. There's no need to do all of the chains, and you can mix and match what you do based on what you are lacking or think that you will be lacking.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:06
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Verviticus posted:it seems entirely appropriate to me that tld has a cap on some resources and honestly its weird they dont have a cap on more of them since the survival challenge is more along the lines of "as long as you can" rather than being especially hard to reach being self-sustaining. i also cant comprehend why anyone would care if they havent hit some insane 500+ day interloper save 1. I understand that is in many ways the conceit of the game, but that doesn't mean I like it. Some people see it as inextricable from the premise, or feel that without it, there's not much point. I disagree, because I enjoy a lot of things about the game other than the slow inevitable death and decay spiral, and would enjoy it just as much without those things. 2. I know that I will probably never have a survival game that goes long enough to encounter most of these issues, but just being aware of it makes it feel like it's hanging over my head, irrational as that may be.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:26
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yeah i mean we've even had this convo in this thread before and to your credit you've admitted it was irrational then and now. so i guess i understand it in that sense that said i still think that there are a lot of well made and fun games out there that are not totally thematically coherent, so i strongly enjoy and support it when a game is all three of those things
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Jun 4, 2021 01:41
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Yeah, I recognize what I want out of the game and what it's trying to be aren't the same thing, but I think everyone in this thread knows this is a genre with very slim pickings, so when there's any interest at all I always hope for any options or modes of play that can align it closer to my interests, since you can't as easily do what you can with some other genres and just find a game that's a better fit.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:57
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Section Z posted:There just seems to be something in the water when it comes to declaring "The spirit of survival games-" means loathing sustainable resources without a busywork tax or outright impossible after a long enough time span, whether you are a starving hobo in the woods or a space explorer with a pocket replicator. I think probably the "spirit" of survival games ought to look a lot like the minecraft modpack omnifactory. You're constantly in a loop of eliminating your current frustration just for it to be immediately replaced with a new, higher-order frustration. And that feels good.
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Jun 4, 2021 02:04
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30.5 Days posted:I think probably the "spirit" of survival games ought to look a lot like the minecraft modpack omnifactory. You're constantly in a loop of eliminating your current frustration just for it to be immediately replaced with a new, higher-order frustration. And that feels good. There's also the kind of fun thing about getting situated to where you finally stop worrying about your basic needs and basic shelter, and then start acting instead of reacting. Getting to that tipping point and maintaining it can be a lot of fun. Bonus points if that maintenance relies on a resource that you can scavenge, but it'd be ideal if you could make it from scratch.
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Jun 4, 2021 03:21
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30.5 Days posted:I think probably the "spirit" of survival games ought to look a lot like the minecraft modpack omnifactory. You're constantly in a loop of eliminating your current frustration just for it to be immediately replaced with a new, higher-order frustration. And that feels good. The "solved problem" problem.
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Jun 4, 2021 03:25
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Dirk the Average posted:There's also the kind of fun thing about getting situated to where you finally stop worrying about your basic needs and basic shelter, and then start acting instead of reacting. Getting to that tipping point and maintaining it can be a lot of fun. Bonus points if that maintenance relies on a resource that you can scavenge, but it'd be ideal if you could make it from scratch. Honestly, Valheim starts you at that point and I think it's why the game feels so nice.
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Jun 4, 2021 08:36
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i love me a good never-ending grind in a survival game but TLD more than any other game scratches a very specific itch and im glad they resisted the urges to allow real forward progress (like being unable to build a real hatchet or gun or whatever)
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Jun 4, 2021 09:31
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I used to be addicted to modpack Minecraft with all the sciency technology big guns like Immersive Engineering, Applied Energistics etc. but I eventually burned out so badly I never went near it again just because I got so frustrated with the tendency of mod makers to try and monopolise your time by making their mods basically require all your attention to progress and make stuff. They all had fractally expanding trees of otherwise useless components and sub-components and sub-sub components and dedicated machines that are specifically designed to produce these otherwise useless sub-sub-sub components... I enjoyed the freeform nature of these mods a lot, but remembering that experience and then playing Factorio or Satisfactory where component chains are simpler feels like slipping into a warm bath after a long day hiking and I'm sore and filthy. They're structured around automating and mass-producing the basics so you can then funnel them into further automated refining and assembling to push higher and higher up the chain of technology which I enjoy much more.
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Jun 4, 2021 09:38
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30.5 Days posted:Honestly, Valheim starts you at that point and I think it's why the game feels so nice. One of the smartest things about valheim imo is how they turned food from a necessity to an enhancement. You absolutely can't realistically survive without eating but the game isn't going to murder you just for not doing it.
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Jun 4, 2021 09:53
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Wait, I'm sorry. They're working on a TLD2? Did they finish the campaign/story for the first one? I know it's been a few years since it was introduced, but I thought they were adding a whole section for Astrid and hadn't done that yet. Maybe I'm just feeling the weight of nearly a decade of loosely following the game since buying it basically day 1.
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Jun 4, 2021 13:08
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Verviticus posted:i love me a good never-ending grind in a survival game but TLD more than any other game scratches a very specific itch and im glad they resisted the urges to allow real forward progress (like being unable to build a real hatchet or gun or whatever)
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Jun 4, 2021 17:08
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Vib Rib posted:Does Zomboid have a more renewable balance now, or is it still as it was when you bounced off it? Default vanilla no, but you can change settings such it can be, though imo it's a bit immersive killing there. A part of town getting restocked feels... weird to me. Though, I did stick in repeating helicopter while toggling some loot respawn, so thematically feels like there are supply drops or finding someone's stash. Dirk the Average posted:There's also the hydrocraft mod, which is a bit of a cluttered mess that takes the approach of putting everything and the kitchen sink into one mod, but it allows you to eventually make and replicate nearly everything in the game using various production chains from the ground up. There's no need to do all of the chains, and you can mix and match what you do based on what you are lacking or think that you will be lacking. I tried and kinda liked hydrocraft, but the bloat is super real. Long Term Survival (LTS) mod has wound up largely being all I wanted. Also, they're intending to make gasoline be of limited quantity in an upcoming small patch. It'll make something like LTS absolutely necessary since PZ doesn't have any long term, renewable, non-refrigeration, food storage. Vinegar (or lemon juice), salt, and drying would do it, but PZ doesn't have that (LTS has replenish-able salt, vinegar, and drying mechanics).
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Jun 4, 2021 17:27
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Flesh Forge posted:I wouldn't say VERY early days, it's very solid and polished tbh, but yeah they definitely need to add a lot of stuff to break the routine once you get a decent start. I meant early days in relation to the entire roadmap etc. I agree that the core gameplay loop is there, polished, and its good. I think it will get much better.
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Jun 4, 2021 18:26
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I decided to try Ark again solo because I have nothing better to do and it's on gamepass, and this gamepass version of the game is ROUGH. I assume it's because this is the cross platform version but you can't set the resolution any higher than 720p. I changed it in the settings .ini but it still looks like rear end and I don't think it actually changed anything. Also there's no button to quit the game as far as I can tell so I have to alt-f4 to quit lol. It's probably not even worth bothering with if I'm going to be by myself right?
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Jun 4, 2021 19:53
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I’ve tried Ark and just couldn’t get into it. Conan Exiles, on the other hand, is pretty good once you get the hang of it. After a point it seems like it really leans on multiplayer, unless you just really wanna spend time grinding to make one piece of a building
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Jun 4, 2021 20:17
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Retrowave Joe posted:I’ve tried Ark and just couldn’t get into it. Conan Exiles, on the other hand, is pretty good once you get the hang of it. After a point it seems like it really leans on multiplayer, unless you just really wanna spend time grinding to make one piece of a building Yeah I played the poo poo out of Conan, it's definitely a better solo experience than Ark appears to be because of the bosses and dungeons and stuff. I really wanted to check out that new Conan expansion but it sounds like that's sorta geared towards pvp and also probably not worth doing if I'm going alone.
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Jun 4, 2021 20:24
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You can do ARK solo, but ideally you'd want to play with the resource drop rate and various taming related timers to make it less painful (unless that's your thing). You can take at least some of the bosses solo, you just got to have geared out dinos and badass weapons yourself to do it. Of course I can't play ARK any more because while it used to (poorly) run on a Mac, it now doesn't run at all and hasn't for apparently the better part of the year to... no change from the studio? lmao
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Jun 4, 2021 21:39
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On the topic of playing terrible multiplayer games solo, I've been playing wurm but threw out all the starter equipment they give you for extra masochism. It's ok, the game doesn't really demand much of you so I just turn on some tv and watch progress bars. I guess it's not a real survival game but whatever
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Jun 4, 2021 22:03
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I played some PVE Ark mostly solo (with a couple friends). We got up to taming a Quetz and then stole a dragon egg and everything after that just seems flat and boring. The trouble with ARK is that at the end of the day it's a game about collecting cool toys that you can use to fight other players and if you don't have other players to fight at some point you're gonna realize that.
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Jun 4, 2021 22:30
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The problem with ark is that for that exact reason, high level players on pvp servers eventually start massacring low level players out of boredom
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Jun 5, 2021 00:54
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That's pretty much what all PvPers everywhere do.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:17
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I still contend that ECO on an open server is the most balanced pvp experience you can get just because they can't hurt you directly but seriously petty rivalries and market exploitation and planet fuckery can and will occur that will ruin your/the servers day.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:23
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The funnest pvp in Ark was when they first added diseases before peeps figured out stockpiling and distributing the cure and suddenly even the lowliest newb had the power to cough on someone and absolutely ruin their day. Widespread panic for like a week. Small clans could do biological warfare against the alpha clans with tactical dodo drops and literally cause schisms in them cuz nobody wanted to get sick and the ill would be banished. And the new players would mostly be left alone by the alpha players for the same reason, going to the beaches to gank newbies is allot less of a free thing to do when they can infect you. But it's no longer a real thing since I believe the disease was nerfed and every big clan will have a stockpile of cure just in case.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:36
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packetmantis posted:That's pretty much what all PvPers everywhere do. yeah any game that has gear/character mechanic uberness and also allows pvp is doomed like this. very stupid that developers keep trying to shovel that poo poo out.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:58
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pvp is cool
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Jun 5, 2021 03:50
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PVP is cool but i'll never understand the appeal of games where you can log back in and someone who's spent 12 hours poopsocking while you're asleep has chipped their way into your base, stolen everything and burned down the rest. I've got colleagues who love it but I just do not understand. Certainly not my thing.
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Jun 5, 2021 11:37
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Because basically bullying someone to stop playing is the greatest pleasure some people can think of.
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Jun 5, 2021 12:30
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all games that combine pvp with gear/character uberness mechanics are universally poop from my rear end
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Jun 5, 2021 17:36
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I’ve been grasping at the right words but yeah - while Battlefield was one of my favorite game series and I love plenty of other online versus stuff, I stay miles away from PVP in survival games. Other than very specific cases where it’s always fun even with crap gear, (DayZ) it’s almost always a game of one person or group grinding, hoarding, and then proceeding to gently caress with your ability to get anywhere close to competitive. Its not fun to get your sandcastle stomped a whole hell of a lot of the worst people online love to be the ones stomping sandcastles. It makes me sad because me and a handful of buddies absolutely love the OpenWorldSurvivalCraft nonsense but exclusively have to play private servers and it does detract somewhat, but open PVP in these games just blows.
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Jun 5, 2021 21:43
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:I meant early days in relation to the entire roadmap etc. I agree that the core gameplay loop is there, polished, and its good. I think it will get much better. Thank you, Ghost of Mussolini, for making me notice Going Medieval.  RimWorld got kinda old and I preferred the low tech part of the game anyway, so far this is basically a clone with 3d structures (neat stuff) and a very medieval coat of paint but for being in EA works like a charm, the potential seems to be there and if it gets a modding scene going it would be great! Scratches the survival itch better too, it seems to be harder to keep stocked on food without electricity and refrigerators
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Jun 5, 2021 22:31
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Anime Store Adventure posted:I’ve been grasping at the right words but yeah - while Battlefield was one of my favorite game series and I love plenty of other online versus stuff, I stay miles away from PVP in survival games. Other than very specific cases where it’s always fun even with crap gear, (DayZ) it’s almost always a game of one person or group grinding, hoarding, and then proceeding to gently caress with your ability to get anywhere close to competitive. Its not fun to get your sandcastle stomped a whole hell of a lot of the worst people online love to be the ones stomping sandcastles. It makes me sad because me and a handful of buddies absolutely love the OpenWorldSurvivalCraft nonsense but exclusively have to play private servers and it does detract somewhat, but open PVP in these games just blows. pvp games that have stood for thousands of years and remain popular - chess, go, any sport - practically all have rules and traditions that handicap the more experienced player, all of them attempt to start players off as evenly as possible. it's only the past 20 years or so we've been producing this kind of bullshit.
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Jun 6, 2021 03:39
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TorakFade posted:Thank you, Ghost of Mussolini, for making me notice Going Medieval. Ditto- when workshop opens up for this game it's going to surpass Rimworld for me.
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Jun 6, 2021 03:58
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Chakan posted:Wait, I'm sorry. They're working on a TLD2? Did they finish the campaign/story for the first one? I know it's been a few years since it was introduced, but I thought they were adding a whole section for Astrid and hadn't done that yet. Maybe I'm just feeling the weight of nearly a decade of loosely following the game since buying it basically day 1. I don't think they're working on TLD2, it might be in planning / some sort of pre production, but they've stated pretty clearly they are finishing the episodes first. Episode 4 is likely to hit next quarter at the latest if I had to guess, I don't remember if there's supposed to be 5 or 6 all up but they're almost done. They've also seen that a lot of people would pay for a good survival expansion DLC so they might explore that route before committing all their resources to TLD2.
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Jun 6, 2021 04:14
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I'd love an expansion focused on survival mode, if it's beefy enough. I just don't know what direction they'd go with it. More regions seems like the obvious one but whenever I get bored of the game it's rarely because I ran out of places to go. More content, surely, but what kind?
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Jun 6, 2021 05:45
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it would be hard because as it is even on interloper or harder customs, the hardest part of the game is at the very start. once you get rolling you're basically gonna clean out the entire map eventually. adding more content like better tools or better clothing is only going to make that easier and all of the hardmode zones they've added with timberwolves and what not are not particularly difficult to handle
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Jun 6, 2021 10:06
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Vib Rib posted:I'd love an expansion focused on survival mode, if it's beefy enough. I just don't know what direction they'd go with it. More regions seems like the obvious one but whenever I get bored of the game it's rarely because I ran out of places to go. More content, surely, but what kind? Agreed, if I was going to go for DLC it would have to come with additional mechanics, not just maps. I think it would be difficult to solve the issue of once you're comfortable and don't have any goals things get boring. I would probably pay for a DLC that added new animals with different mechanics, replacing the mechanics that are done automatically with gameplay (fishing and chopping wood and would be cool). Longer term projects would also be nice, like being able to build a fishing hut or small shack, craftables like a wind breaker for outdoor fireplaces. Even being able to find and read newspapers and more lore spread throughout the regions would be welcome. More about what life was like before the end, and how bear island became completely desolate. There's probably a lot of stuff they haven't been able to add that could be added and sold as good expansion packs, I think at this point the goodwill is probably there where people would accept that they can't do everything for free that might have been considered way back at the beginning.
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Jun 6, 2021 11:13
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The Long Dark: 2 Hot 2 Survive
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