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https://twitter.com/raeh_FFXIV/status/1399204834411229186?s=20
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Jun 3, 2021 17:35
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Cleretic posted:He doesn't have an unbroken memory of everything that happened up until now because of the sundering, but we do know he was informed of things through a soul crystal. I'm sorry, where are you getting this? That Fandaniel was informed of things through a soul crystal. Are you extrapolating or citing direct evidence, and if you are extrapolating, from what?
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Jun 3, 2021 18:12
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I want this scene so badly
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Jun 3, 2021 18:15
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Captain Oblivious posted:I'm sorry, where are you getting this? That Fandaniel was informed of things through a soul crystal. We saw the soul crystals ourselves, that kept the memories of each of the members of the Convocation.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:27
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TheWorldsaStage posted:I want this scene so badly Like when Exdeath busts through the darkness except it's Dulia Chai
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Jun 3, 2021 18:40
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homeless snail posted:It would be extremely funny if the last time anyone saw Hildibrand was him falling through a portal that's an obvious adventure hook, and then just never followed up on, I agree. He kind of is in one now. quote:Final Fantasy XIV: Shadowbringers
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Jun 3, 2021 18:41
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Rand Brittain posted:We saw the soul crystals ourselves, that kept the memories of each of the members of the Convocation. That's what I'm getting at here, at what point did we get any indication that Fandaniel interacted with them, ever? Because I was pretty sure that's what they're referring to and well...that poo poo was literally thrown around Emet-Selch's house. Not exactly strong evidence for Fandaniel consulting them.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:42
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Fandaniel's only interaction with the stone was when the unsundered uplifted whatever sundered version of him they found. If that never happened, he wouldn't be Fandaniel.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:46
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Fandaniel's only interaction with the stone was when the unsundered uplifted whatever sundered version of him they found. We have no indication at present that this is how it works. The stones were a feature of pre-sundering society, we have no direct evidence that the Ascians used them as Ascians. What we do have is a vague statement from Emet-Selch that the Unsundered have a way to awaken sundered fragments of the Convocation into Ascians. That this was stated as a characteristic of the Unsundered, specifically, if anything gives credence to the idea that the stones are not the mechanism.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:56
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Fandaniel's only interaction with the stone was when the unsundered uplifted whatever sundered version of him they found. One of those wasn't needed for Gaia though.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:56
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Bruceski posted:One of those wasn't needed for Gaia though. Gaia was arguably a special case, as Lohgrif and Mitron apparently had a such a special bond that Mitron was effectively able to mind-meld with Gaia and drop all of the necessary memories in her head at once.
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Jun 3, 2021 18:59
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Aside from Hytholdeus saying that's what they were for, one of the Tales from the Shadows has Emet-Selch trying to convince Elidibus to reuse his crystal to regain his memories. And we have this situation: sundered shards are being given memories of their ancient pasts. The Ascians have stones that store and retrieve memories of the 13. Why wouldn't that process be linked?
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Jun 3, 2021 19:03
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Orcs and Ostriches posted:Aside from Hytholdeus saying that's what they were for, one of the Tales from the Shadows has Emet-Selch trying to convince Elidibus to reuse his crystal to regain his memories. Hythlodaeus is speaking from the context of Amaurot, specifically. Pre-sundering. While Emet-Selch speaking to Elidibus of the crystal is interesting, that still does not constitute evidence that the crystals were used to orient sundered Ascians. I am going to mostly be repeating myself here but again: Emet-Selch made it clear to us that the power to awaken sundered Ascians as "themselves" was a characteristic of the Unsundered. We have no scenes in which the Convocation crystals are mentioned in the context of sundered Ascians, we DO have scenes of them being left lying around the place like forgotten knick knacks. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 19:15 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 19:12
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Captain Oblivious posted:Hythlodaeus is speaking from the context of Amaurot, specifically. Pre-sundering. While Emet-Selch speaking to Elidibus of the crystal is interesting, that still does not constitute evidence that the crystals were used to orient sundered Ascians. I am going to mostly be repeating myself here but again: Emet-Selch made it clear to us that the power to awaken sundered Ascians as "themselves" was a characteristic of the Unsundered. We have no scenes in which the Convocation crystals are mentioned in the context of sundered Ascians, we DO have scenes of them being left lying around the place like forgotten knick knacks. OK. 
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Jun 3, 2021 19:41
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TheWorldsaStage posted:I want this scene so badly https://twitter.com/bufoodyne/status/1400105696943689729?s=20
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Jun 3, 2021 19:43
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Thank you, this fills me with joy
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Jun 3, 2021 20:12
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There we go that will do it. That specific line I missed. And since Hythlodaeus' phantom is implicitly Emet-Selch's sock puppet, we can conclude that this has at least in some cases been done.
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Jun 3, 2021 20:49
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So as someone who has been lost as gently caress to the intricacies of the debate of the past few pages, its def time for me to New Game+ Shb
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Jun 3, 2021 21:04
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The Skeep posted:their mass suicide-sacrifice explicitly involves children. That assumes that ancient Amaurot's concept of "children" is the same as the modern western world's. The idea of "people under the age of 14 or 13 are precious and shouldn't be hurt!" is a rather recent anamoly in the history of the modern world. As little as 150 years ago, you had 9 year olds becoming officers of naval ships going into battle and being eviscerated by splinters, or little drummer boys being acceptable targets to shoot at during battle. Elidibus isn't really any different from them. Cleretic posted:The Convocation were the ones that pitched the 'sacrifice half the planet to summon Zodiark' plan My understanding is that they sacrificed half of the Amaurotines who had survived thus far. Other civilizations weren't involved in Amaurot's plan. The Ascian's desire to sacrifice the newfound life on the planet was explicitly to get Zodiark to regurgitate the souls he had, which are Amaurotines.
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Jun 3, 2021 21:46
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Captain Oblivious posted:There we go that will do it. That specific line I missed. And since Hythlodaeus' phantom is implicitly Emet-Selch's sock puppet, we can conclude that this has at least in some cases been done. See, this is exactly what happens with me. This game has a lot of fuckin' text, and none of us have a clue what random lines in the middle of text-only cutscenes will become super relevant at some point. This is why I cite relevant scenes when putting things forward now; unlike what people assume, I do really try to keep on top of stuff, and sometimes we forget things. So it's useful to point to the actual evidence when it exists. I think we also (not just here, it's basically an 'internet nerds'-wide thing) have a habit of knocking people back with a flat 'no' when perhaps we shouldn't. Which is... extremely unhelpful, both with changing someone's mind and with predicting a story that can sometimes get pretty wild; I think if someone predicted Amaurot before Shadowbringers hit, people would've laughed them out of the room. Maybe someone's wild, potentially-misguided theories have legs, because they thought different parts of the story were more important than the collectively-agreed reading says. When I saw you trying to refute what was actually in the text (not to pick on you, the example's just right in front of me), I didn't want to knock you back, I wanted to ask questions, follow this hole further and see where you think it's going. The text says this; what evidence do you have that the text was lying? If it IS lying, what does that mean? What changes about Fandaniel as we know him now, and what we's going to do in the future, if it turns out his knowledge of the Final Days was based on second or third-hand testimonies rather than essentially direct knowledge of the poo poo that went down? At the very least, that's a lot more fun than 'no'.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:15
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I reread the PC Gamer interview with Yoshida again (the one where he vaguely mentions time travel as a possible future story bit), and this caught my eye. It's when he's talking about taking advantage of New Game+ to be refreshed on the story in time for EW.quote:...Maybe another key thing to look out for is when Hydaelyn calls out to you, and how many times she's called upon you. What could this mean?
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Jun 4, 2021 06:48
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They made a mention in the 5.55 story that we haven't actually heard directly from Hydaelyn for like 2 expansions now, I imagine it's related to that.
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Jun 4, 2021 06:56
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I figured Fandanial's "Gate of the Gods" plan so far was basically to yoink Zodiark out of the moon both for Zenos' mecha fight fantasy and also probably to unshackle Mr Final Days Causer
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Jun 4, 2021 14:12
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man, poor mikoto. she just hasn't really caught too many breaks with her friends. does the choice at the end of the zadnor storyline regarding Misija have implications? i assume it does, i saw a warning about that when entering the zone for the first time. is it just one or two cutscenes that are different? Frida Call Me fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 14:15
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Frida Call Me posted:man, poor mikoto. she just hasn't really caught too many breaks with her friends. I think it just changes the tone of some things? I elected to have her executed, but she still broke out of prison and saves the day. She looked at my character when she was dying and wanted me to kill her, so I took that option too, but she dies before you actually have to do the deed.
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Jun 4, 2021 15:26
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Eimi posted:I think it just changes the tone of some things? I elected to have her executed, but she still broke out of prison and saves the day. She looked at my character when she was dying and wanted me to kill her, so I took that option too, but she dies before you actually have to do the deed. So you got the right scene that changed, but not what you think it did. What actually happens is, if you elect to have her live in the first choice, Bajsaljen takes the dagger before you can do anything and ends her life himself. Whether or not you choose to kill her in the second choice changes what your character does, but the first choice changes what Bajsaljen does in that scene, and he's the one that actually does things. I've got no idea what he does if you take the wishy-washy 'I trust your judgement' choice. Cleretic fucked around with this message at 15:41 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 15:35
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The script only shows two dialogue box prompts (each with a grant her request/leave her be option) so my best guess is 3rd option pickers get lumped in with the 2nd option. 
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Jun 4, 2021 15:39
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Huh, well of those outcomes I drastically preferred what I got. Guess I got lucky.
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Jun 4, 2021 15:56
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Cleretic posted:I've got no idea what he does if you take the wishy-washy 'I trust your judgement' choice. I picked that, got "Kill her or don't kill her" in the ending, elected not to kill her, and got the scene where Bajsaljen cuts her throat
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Jun 4, 2021 19:15
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Cleretic posted:So you got the right scene that changed, but not what you think it did. What actually happens is, if you elect to have her live in the first choice, Bajsaljen takes the dagger before you can do anything and ends her life himself. Whether or not you choose to kill her in the second choice changes what your character does, but the first choice changes what Bajsaljen does in that scene, and he's the one that actually does things. I took that wishy washy option and didn't choose to end her in the final scene and Bajsaljien still did exactly as you describe here.
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Jun 4, 2021 19:19
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I took the wishy-washy choice and tried to execute her and she died from her wounds before my character did anything.
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Jun 5, 2021 05:50
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TheWorldsaStage posted:I want this scene so badly Another version https://twitter.com/NovaFunBun/status/1401014377122123779?s=20
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Jun 5, 2021 19:29
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Ahhhhh it's magical
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Jun 5, 2021 19:41
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I was really worried about the choice about Misija because to me it sounded like the options were either "I'll kill her myself" or "let's just leave her to bleed to death".
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Jun 5, 2021 20:33
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So, a line from 5.2 that someone pointed me to has some interesting meaning to it now that we understand more about the character and his aims.quote:Zenos: The Final Days? At the time we didn't know that was Fandaniel, or how exactly the sundered Ascians got uplifted. But now that we do... this doesn't make sense. How does he have 'mostly second-hand' knowledge of the loving apocalypse? You were either there or you weren't. Since this scene, we've learned about the Ascian crystals--and that Fandaniel definitely did survive the Final Days, which takes out that possible explanation. Whether or not he'd consider the memories from the crystal first-hand or second-hand knowledge is up to him, but both of them raise big questions. If the crystal is his first-hand knowledge, then what second-hand knowledge does he have that dwarfs the experience of having been there at the time? And if he considers the crystal to be second-hand knowledge... then what is his first-hand knowledge of the Final Days if not that? I'm not sure what exactly this means, and maybe I'm overthinking it. But this smells like one of those single text boxes that's going to somehow make a whole new sense later down the line. Something worth putting a bookmark in.
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Jun 8, 2021 01:39
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I mean, you could call memories of a past life second hand knowledge.
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Jun 8, 2021 01:41
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Cleretic posted:So, a line from 5.2 that someone pointed me to has some interesting meaning to it now that we understand more about the character and his aims. The Ascian jobs stones don't contain 1:1 recreations of the Sundered Ascian's memories, they're creations of the Unsundered filled with their recreations of those memories of the others. It's second hand even then because they're not actually his memories.
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Jun 8, 2021 01:41
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Cleretic posted:So, a line from 5.2 that someone pointed me to has some interesting meaning to it now that we understand more about the character and his aims. The Unsundered were the only ones with actual lived memories of the Final Days, everyone else is just working off of crystals or stories that the Unsundered told them. Seems safe to assume that the memories in those crystals are not like 100% perfect, so they can only be thought of as being second-hand knowledge.
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Jun 8, 2021 01:48
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Cleretic posted:So, a line from 5.2 that someone pointed me to has some interesting meaning to it now that we understand more about the character and his aims. Elidibus or Emet would have told him once they found him.
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Jun 8, 2021 01:51
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Waffleman_ posted:I mean, you could call memories of a past life second hand knowledge. Then what's his first-hand knowledge!? The crystal's memories being second-hand knowledge is actually the weirder of the two options for that reason. At least if the crystal was first-hand then we can infer that testimony from the Paragons were the second-hand source, even if we don't know what he learned. But if he considers the memories of Unsundered Fandaniel to be second-hand, too, then what and how did he experience directly?
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Jun 8, 2021 01:52
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