(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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splifyphus posted:that's not what psychedelics do tho - the 'mystical' states they generate are radically subjectivist and antisocial, and when pursued as an end in themselves result in a kind of infantile narcissism that is utterly incapable of the kind of intersubjective commitment necessary for effective political activity. They're a tool not a miracle.
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Jun 4, 2021 00:28
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yeah thats only a potential outcome not the only outcome.
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Jun 4, 2021 00:29
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Killin_Like_Bronson posted:They're a tool not a miracle. that’s right. you’re the miracle, person reading this post
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Jun 4, 2021 00:29
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Raskolnikov38 posted:stalin's crime was stopping at the elbe god, what could have been
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Jun 4, 2021 00:38
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indigi posted:wait, they make alcohol? are we sure they're communists? they exist, which demonstrates they're clearly having sex as well. if they experience joy, or even mundane happiness on a regular basis I'm going to say no
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Jun 4, 2021 01:09
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Some of y'all really can't meet people outside of the Party, huh.
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Jun 4, 2021 02:55
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https://twitter.com/NikkiMcR/status/1400598981319835649?s=20
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Jun 4, 2021 03:01
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Algund Eenboom posted:Grover furr slander will not be tolerated in this thread read losurdo instead tho imo
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Jun 4, 2021 05:43
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Judge Dredd Scott posted:read losurdo instead tho imo Losurdo is loving great, Liberalism: A Counter-History is one of the best books I've read
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Jun 4, 2021 08:59
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verso are cowards who wont publish losurdo's stalin book
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Jun 4, 2021 09:03
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Trash Ops posted:verso are cowards who wont publish losurdo's stalin book Wasn't it only just recently translated into English?
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Jun 4, 2021 09:04
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Wasn't it only just recently translated into English? https://twitter.com/Huck1995/status/1392424543759835141
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Jun 4, 2021 09:06
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Wasn't it only just recently translated into English? it's available in English out there in the internet, I read it last year - it's just that people have been asking Verso to publish it and they keep refusing EDIT: beaten like Snyder's claims on the Holodomor
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Jun 4, 2021 09:07
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verso's an op
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Jun 4, 2021 09:07
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verso can load my chode wtf
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Jun 4, 2021 09:09
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sebastian budgen
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Jun 4, 2021 10:15
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Dunno if it's common knowledge or not but Verso got called out for being abusers (and abuse-enablers) a few months ago and have done, afaik, jack-gently caress to address it. On top of that they also just sound like some of the most insufferable pricks imaginable.
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Jun 4, 2021 10:18
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Black Legend isn't particularly good. Selected quotations from contemporaries, Stalin himself and occasional modern historians reveals what they thought at the moment but doesn't legitimise whether their perspectives were remotely appropriate for the actual conditions they faced and/or we're aware of. Take the persisting threat of sabotage argument, sure it was a tool that the Russians used for a long time and might have continued to be used under Soviet rule. Is there any analysis on the reality and the use of sabotage in the USSR? Nope. Rehabilitating a person from 'malevolent great man of history' to 'human acting within the historical context to the best of their ability even if that makes them monstrous' cannot simply base itself on what the person committed to paper at the time. Sure, fascists and bigots will place their hatred on the page without hesitation but any argument relating to justifying brutal action as prudent requires showing that the actions at least appeared prudent at the time, not just that the person thought so. The chapter about the difficulties of battling against utopian thought post revolution when having to actually deal with the reality of power was really good though.
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Jun 4, 2021 10:27
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In a move of incredible synthesis of this thread's current discussions, I present: An interview with Grover Furr by a self-described, proudly "tankie," Marxist-Leninist podcast that totally dissolved in an explosion of drama because one of the hosts wanted to open a communist brewery or some poo poo.
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Jun 4, 2021 13:26
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ram dass in hell posted:sorry you had a bad trip lmao nice username/post combo. but seriously tho psychedelics as a political supplement has been tried - by the cia, and their acid supply helped destroy the solidarity and momentum of the '68 movement. psychedelics do not produce politically effective or active subjects or even necessarily somehow more 'empathic' people, they produce hippies. and charles manson. ----------------
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Jun 4, 2021 13:40
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splifyphus posted:psychedelics as a political supplement has been tried - by the cia oh well that’s the final word on that then
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Jun 4, 2021 13:58
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splifyphus posted:nice username/post combo. Hippies were always bougie dilettantes. srsly lol @ ur opinions
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Jun 4, 2021 14:53
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splifyphus posted:nice username/post combo. they also produced steve jobs
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Jun 4, 2021 15:20
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Centrist Committee posted:they also produced steve jobs So I guess a bad thing too
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Jun 4, 2021 15:30
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correct
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Jun 4, 2021 15:37
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acid didn’t produce the yippies but it certainly didn’t help either
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Jun 4, 2021 15:38
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AnimeIsTrash posted:I don't remember if it was this thread or another thread in which people talked about what a tankie was. I think this guy is a tankie for sure. sounds like a very cool dude but an absolutely nightmarish professor to have
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Jun 4, 2021 15:42
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Lady Militant posted:sounds like a very cool dude but an absolutely nightmarish professor to have why? it seems like if you do the homework you’re pretty much guaranteed a good grade
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Jun 4, 2021 16:16
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namesake posted:The chapter about the difficulties of battling against utopian thought post revolution when having to actually deal with the reality of power was really good though. i read the first 20 or so pages today and it also challenges a bunch of super common bullshit myths about stalin in the beginning, so if people read just those bits that'd be pretty nice anyway, https://twitter.com/MacoAlgo/status/1400826568335888388lmfao
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Jun 4, 2021 16:44
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namesake posted:Black Legend isn't particularly good. Selected quotations from contemporaries, Stalin himself and occasional modern historians reveals what they thought at the moment but doesn't legitimise whether their perspectives were remotely appropriate for the actual conditions they faced and/or we're aware of. I’m sure the verso books email is fully politically motivated but based on this review it does seem like lovely history writing
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Jun 4, 2021 16:50
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splifyphus posted:but seriously tho psychedelics as a political supplement has been tried - by the cia, and their acid supply helped destroy the solidarity and momentum of the '68 movement. psychedelics do not produce politically effective or active subjects or even necessarily somehow more 'empathic' people, they produce hippies. and charles manson. the social context of that time is far more determinant than the drug itself, imho there are plenty of hardcore commies and anarcho-commies that used psychedelics; I've been reading a lot of stuff about the 60s/70s lately and the contrast of the American hard left against hippies in that sense is very interesting. It seems to me that 1 in a 1000 hippies was an Abbie Hoffmann type who had the hippie mentality along a radical socialist view, so savvier communists realized quite quickly that while acid could be very interesting (and even encouraged the artists and scientists to experiment with it), it was not the cornerstone of a profound transformation on society this is something that I think goes understated a lot: many radical socialists at the time made the very costly mistake of betting the farm in what they thought was a dramatic cultural shift - a revolution if you will - with the hippies and helping to alienate organized labor by chasing an illusion (this is especially true for the USA but also happened in Western Europe, in different measures from place to place). "Flower power" was, ultimately, a liberal construct; the fact that many of them (hippies) went to become Reaganites is an incredible evidence of such
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Jun 4, 2021 16:51
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Truga posted:i read the first 20 or so pages today and it also challenges a bunch of super common bullshit myths about stalin in the beginning, so if people read just those bits that'd be pretty nice lmao
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Jun 4, 2021 17:36
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DirtyRobot posted:In a move of incredible synthesis of this thread's current discussions, I present: I dislike the wacky hosts but Grover Furr comes across well
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Jun 4, 2021 17:39
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I wish Grover Furr’s books had hardcovers
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Jun 4, 2021 18:29
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https://twitter.com/emmibevensee/status/1400490963697610764
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Jun 4, 2021 19:29
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More like grover furry
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Jun 4, 2021 19:31
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please keep that to the hot takes thread. this is my safe space, to be told I’m an idiot
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Jun 4, 2021 19:32
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lmao this is the anarchist who thinks Anarchism will never work on Earth so they need to think about stealing a spaceship.
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Jun 4, 2021 20:55
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namesake posted:Black Legend isn't particularly good. Selected quotations from contemporaries, Stalin himself and occasional modern historians reveals what they thought at the moment but doesn't legitimise whether their perspectives were remotely appropriate for the actual conditions they faced and/or we're aware of. i didn't see that as a problem with black legend, in part because i'd already read Ludo Martens' "Another View of Stalin", and that book goes into the ongoing frequent sabotage in much more depth. that said i didn't think losurdo's book really swung that heavily on the sabotage since it had so much else to say about both internecine left conflicts and the general historical context at the time (comparing stalin to churchill and fdr, for instance)
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Jun 4, 2021 20:59
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their best case scenario for the future is the OPA
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Jun 4, 2021 20:59
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