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BonHair posted:See also: any mention of gender in TOS. I think it's trying to be all objective and rational about gender differences, but it comes out as terrible sexism. Right. And the thing is, a lot of the stuff on TOS was seen as progressive for the time. The women on the Enterprise tend to be professionals and academics. Pretty much every time we see one of Kirk's exes on the show, she's just as intelligent and ambitious as he is, which is usually why they broke up, because neither of them were willing to subordinate their career for the relationship, and generally, the women aren't blamed for that. There's a lot of stuff in TOS that, in the late 60s, would have been seen as very modern and progressive, that these days we see as sexist, just because times have changed.
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Jun 3, 2021 21:21
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Then you have an episode where a woman is just to incompetent because of her women nature. Which is kind of the opposite of smart and ambitious
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Jun 3, 2021 21:24
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Though outside the interracial kiss, that describes TOS pretty well. Had a lot of talk but in practice it wasn’t terribly progressive even for its time
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Jun 3, 2021 21:29
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Comparatively, the Berman era really wasn’t all that progressive. Even at the time, stuff like The Outcast was seen as a bit of a cop out. Voyager went into some actively proto-chud territory. Like, the writing kinda sucks most of the time, but I do give Disco some points for having a female majority cast and a ton of queer representation. It’s not breaking any barriers though - it just caught Trek up to about 2010 or so.
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Jun 3, 2021 21:34
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Huh, the person who wrote that Voyager episode became the Discovery showrunner.
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Jun 3, 2021 21:47
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thotsky posted:Huh, the person who wrote that Voyager episode became the Discovery showrunner. Aaaaaaa- hahahahahahaha
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Jun 3, 2021 22:00
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thotsky posted:Huh, the person who wrote that Voyager episode became the Discovery showrunner. Unless you’re referring to Bryan Fuller, the creator who never actually showran anything on Disco before being fired, the current showrunner Michelle Paradise wasn’t even in the business until 10 years after Voyager went off the air.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:05
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Unless you’re referring to Bryan Fuller, the creator who never actually showran anything on Disco before being fired, the current showrunner Michelle Paradise wasn’t even in the business until 10 years after Voyager went off the air. It's Terry Matalas, who was a production assistant on Voyager and Enterprise and wrote a couple of Enterprise episodes, who is now the showrunner on Picard, that's the only one of the current Modern Trek showrunners who've actually worked on 90s/00s Trek. He was also the showrunner on 12 Monkeys, which I've yet to see anyone say a bad word about.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:46
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Joe Menosky would be my pick for Trek-alumnus-as-showrunner. Give me that high concept weirdness. He was a Disco writer for a split second, but I guess he went running for the hills.
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Jun 3, 2021 22:58
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Bit of an outsider choice but I'd like to see Steven Ira Behr give it a go
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Jun 3, 2021 23:06
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12 monkeys was an okay movie for its time, and it had some good acting, but I felt like the could have done so much more with the premise. It was before bruce willis became too big to give a poo poo about acting ever again. TAKE THAT 90s classic 12 monkeys! Edit: I want to see Jorden Peele make a star trek show just let him go hog wild. Axe-man fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Jun 3, 2021 |
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Jun 3, 2021 23:08
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I'd like to see more people in the vein of Mike McMahan taking the reigns of Trek shows, people who were clearly huge fans of TNG/DS9/VOY who go out of their way to recreate that design ascetic and storytelling sensibility. No Seth MacFarlanes, please.
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Jun 3, 2021 23:24
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nine-gear crow posted:I'd like to see more people in the vein of Mike McMahan taking the reigns of Trek shows, people who were clearly huge fans of TNG/DS9/VOY who go out of their way to recreate that design ascetic and storytelling sensibility. No Seth MacFarlanes, please. Okay I would like to see McMahan's take on a real Star Trek show (and not a boilerplate adult cartoon with Star Trek aesthetics do not flame!!) because yeah he obviously has a real love and reverence for the 90s shows in a way that hasn't shone through with the creators of either of the modern Treks
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Jun 3, 2021 23:29
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Unless you’re referring to Bryan Fuller, the creator who never actually showran anything on Disco before being fired, the current showrunner Michelle Paradise wasn’t even in the business until 10 years after Voyager went off the air. I meant Fuller, I guess the wiki is wrong.
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Jun 4, 2021 00:49
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I don't need new trek to look like TNG; TNG was a big evolution from TOS after all. You could keep some touchstones, like the use of color and minimalism, but make it look good and distinct. Discovery and stuff just looks really generic scifi to me.
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Jun 4, 2021 00:56
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nine-gear crow posted:I'd like to see more people in the vein of Mike McMahan taking the reigns of Trek shows, people who were clearly huge fans of TNG/DS9/VOY who go out of their way to recreate that design ascetic and storytelling sensibility. No Seth MacFarlanes, please. Well, we're getting that with Prodigy; the Hagemans apparently blew Kurtzman and CBS away with their pitch, to the point that they were elevated from staff writers to running the entire show. That being said, being a huge fan of Star Trek is not an indicator of the writer's talent. John Logan is one of the biggest Star Trek turbonerds on the planet, and he gave us loving Nemesis.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:16
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thotsky posted:I don't need new trek to look like TNG; TNG was a big evolution from TOS after all. You could keep some touchstones, like the use of color and minimalism, but make it look good and distinct. Discovery and stuff just looks really generic scifi to me. I mean I just really like the post-First Contact visual language of the series, so if I was making a show I'd try to get it to look more like that. Basically the only thing I've liked out of Discovery so far have been the Discoprise and maybe the Voyager-J from certain angles. The season 1 uniforms looked kind of cool too, I liked how they tried to bridge the gap between Enterprise and TOS with the blue jumpsuits, but the weird metallic piping was just to much. Timby posted:Well, we're getting that with Prodigy; the Hagemans apparently blew Kurtzman and CBS away with their pitch, to the point that they were elevated from staff writers to running the entire show. Nice! And also touche. I amend my statement: "More Trek Fan show runners... who actually know how to loving write."
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Jun 4, 2021 01:19
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We have had enough blue trek since the turn of the century. Time to make a show where the bridge is red imo Or purple
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Jun 4, 2021 01:20
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skasion posted:We have had enough blue trek since the turn of the century. Time to make a show where the bridge is red imo In my heart Star Trek will always be beige, gray and brown and if you try to add any actual colour to it, I will stab you.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:21
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multijoe posted:Bit of an outsider choice but I'd like to see Steven Ira Behr give it a go please don't troll nine-gear crow posted:I mean I just really like the post-First Contact visual language of the series, so if I was making a show I'd try to get it to look more like that. Basically the only thing I've liked out of Discovery so far have been the Discoprise and maybe the Voyager-J from certain angles. The season 1 uniforms looked kind of cool too, I liked how they tried to bridge the gap between Enterprise and TOS with the blue jumpsuits, but the weird metallic piping was just to much. The piping I could deal with, the dozens of tiny Starfleet arrowheads (and the arrowhead buckles (plural!) on the boots!!) is what really irks me about those costumes.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:22
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nine-gear crow posted:I mean I just really like the post-First Contact visual language of the series, so if I was making a show I'd try to get it to look more like that. Basically the only thing I've liked out of Discovery so far have been the Discoprise Damning with faint praise, considering the Discoprise is the greatest starship design ever made--Constitution refit--with the original 1701's nacelles bolted on. Farmer Crack-rear end posted:The piping I could deal with, the dozens of tiny Starfleet arrowheads (and the arrowhead buckles (plural!) on the boots!!) is what really irks me about those costumes. In fairness to Disco's costume designers, the "arrowheads are the pattern on the uniform" thing began with Michael Kaplan on Star Trek '09.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:23
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See in my heart TOS' color palette just kept getting more intense until it's like living inside an interstellar Kandinsky
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Jun 4, 2021 01:24
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I’ve lost count of how many times we get this dialogue on DS9 Com: Kira/Jake/Dax/Someone to Sisko, you’d better get down to [place] Sisko: What is it? Someone: You’d better see for yourself
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Jun 4, 2021 01:26
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Timby posted:In fairness to Disco's costume designers, the "arrowheads are the pattern on the uniform" thing began with Michael Kaplan on Star Trek '09. I actually really liked the weird nubby implied feel of the 09 uniforms and you don't really know all the little nubs are Starfleet arrowheads until you look at it with a magnifying glass or see super up close ultra high detail shots of the uniforms. The ones in Beyond felt classier with their smooth sleek style, but something was kind of lost in the transition by ditching the arrowhead nubs. It's so weird to describe.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:28
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Timby posted:In fairness to Disco's costume designers, the "arrowheads are the pattern on the uniform" thing began with Michael Kaplan on Star Trek '09. I didn't like it back then either.  But, okay, fair enough that they would probably feel some obligation to incorporate elements from past successful productions.Honestly it's not just the costuming, and it's not just Disco; Lower Decks has the drat arrowhead stamped on the back of PADDs, on boot soles... it's just, jesus, enough already!
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Jun 4, 2021 01:30
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Martytoof posted:I’ve lost count of how many times we get this dialogue on DS9 What is it? Trouble.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:32
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Martytoof posted:I’ve lost count of how many times we get this dialogue on DS9 This is hardly unique to DS9.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:37
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Timby posted:This is hardly unique to DS9. Maybe, but it’s what I’m watching now and this trope is driving me bananas.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:40
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Martytoof posted:I’ve lost count of how many times we get this dialogue on DS9 I mean, that's a basic convention of dramatic writing. The alternative is: Com: Kira to Sisko, you better get down to Ops. Sisko: What is it? Kira: O'Brien got his hand stuck in a pipe again and can't get it out. Sisko: Oh, thank you for letting me know, Major. And then there's suddenly no reason to cut to Sisko in Ops staring at O'Brien lodged halfway inside a bulkhead.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:41
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nine-gear crow posted:I mean, that's a basic convention of dramatic writing. The alternative is: I'm really sad this wasn't an episode now. Miles stuck in a Jeffries Tube like Winnie-the-Pooh.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:59
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HopperUK posted:I'm really sad this wasn't an episode now. Miles stuck in a Jeffries Tube like Winnie-the-Pooh. I can hear Meaney saying “ah bother” now
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Jun 4, 2021 02:04
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nine-gear crow posted:I mean, that's a basic convention of dramatic writing. The alternative is: It is a basic convention, but it's one Trek abuses way too much. They could even mix it up a bit using information the characters know but we don't. Geordi: Captain we've got a situation in engineering. Picard: What is it? Geordi: It's a code Gamma 12, sir. Picard: Merde. Cut to the senior staff staring in shock at ensign Nunez phased halfway through the floor while Data scans with the tricorder.
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Jun 4, 2021 02:11
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Trip: Captain we've got a situation in engineering. Archer: What is it? Trip: It's Travis, sir. He touched the alien artifact and now he has too much time on his hands. Zoom out to TRAVIS MAYWEATHER, whose lower arms are wrinkled and ARTIFICALLY AGED. It's been a looooong road,
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Jun 4, 2021 02:28
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I'm quite enjoying this derail of Dramatically Low-Stakes Star Trek 
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Jun 4, 2021 02:57
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drat, I arrived too late to quote a large chunk of Look To Windward for "is immortality bad" chat.
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Jun 4, 2021 13:05
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That’s a good book.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:16
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nine-gear crow posted:I actually really liked the weird nubby implied feel of the 09 uniforms and you don't really know all the little nubs are Starfleet arrowheads until you look at it with a magnifying glass or see super up close ultra high detail shots of the uniforms. The ones in Beyond felt classier with their smooth sleek style, but something was kind of lost in the transition by ditching the arrowhead nubs. It's so weird to describe. The 09/ID uniforms always looked weirdly cheap to me. Like they're wearing their own crappy Halloween merchandise. They all have that glossy gymwear look, reminding me of that box of t-shirts the future people wore in Idiocracy.
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Jun 4, 2021 14:53
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I really wish Star Trek 09 had a subtitle so we didn't have to call it Star Trek 09
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Jun 4, 2021 14:56
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Gravitas Shortfall posted:drat, I arrived too late to quote a large chunk of Look To Windward for "is immortality bad" chat. Tell us anyway, I looked up the wikipedia and I gained no lesson about immortality.
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Jun 4, 2021 17:00
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nine-gear crow posted:I'm quite enjoying this derail of Dramatically Low-Stakes Star Trek I would watch that all loving day to be honest. There's a TV show here called '24 Hours in A&E" and it's following people who come into the emergency department of a hospital. It's quite well made and compelling TV. But my favourite bits are these little tiny bits they stick in between the big stories where it's just people hanging around in the waiting room and talking to each other. Chuckling over their phones. Someone suddenly saying they are desperate for a sandwich and a five-minute argument over which sandwich is better, and then someone else points out there aren't any sandwiches at the moment anyway because the shop's closed. I would watch the Trek version of that for hours on end.
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Jun 4, 2021 17:33
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