(Thread IKs:
dead gay comedy forums)
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Ferrinus posted:i didn't see that as a problem with black legend, in part because i'd already read Ludo Martens' "Another View of Stalin", and that book goes into the ongoing frequent sabotage in much more depth. that said i didn't think losurdo's book really swung that heavily on the sabotage since it had so much else to say about both internecine left conflicts and the general historical context at the time (comparing stalin to churchill and fdr, for instance) and to add on a bit i think losurdo's book is less about how stalin was justified in whatever repression and more about how that "furious faith" was actually part of the popular soviet will at the time, justified or otherwise
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Jun 4, 2021 21:03
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| # ? May 26, 2024 00:13 |
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Ferrinus posted:i didn't see that as a problem with black legend, in part because i'd already read Ludo Martens' "Another View of Stalin", and that book goes into the ongoing frequent sabotage in much more depth. that said i didn't think losurdo's book really swung that heavily on the sabotage since it had so much else to say about both internecine left conflicts and the general historical context at the time (comparing stalin to churchill and fdr, for instance) Ferrinus posted:and to add on a bit i think losurdo's book is less about how stalin was justified in whatever repression and more about how that "furious faith" was actually part of the popular soviet will at the time, justified or otherwise The sabotaging was just the clearest example I remembered thinking was completely unsupported in the book. It seems to be a massive oversight to not even reference something which covers it more thoroughly as you did and that was my general take away from it - an assumed understanding, bolstered with some anecdotes, between author and reader that conditions were such that Stalins freedom of action was limited to such a degree that his actual actions were the best available and then quotes from rivals to demonstrate their intent (with their capacity to follow through assumed to be true) or from Stalin showing some capacity for reflection in a general sense. If it is best as a companion work with other more evaluative books then more obvious referencing would have helped immensely. The comparisons to the UK and USA are fair but trying to argue that the USSRs actions were on a similar footing to them seems to me to be ignoring the incredibly obvious point that they were bourgeois imperialist states and the USSR was created to not be that. If we are to say that Stalin is just another Churchill of the time then he's on the level with an alcoholic racist who botched a number of command decisions, it's a pisspoor rehabilitation. Perhaps it's true but it's not a change in character that I would get excited over, it's certainly of no political advantage at this moment. Worse still if popular soviet socialist will goads on such characters. I guess as a rebuttal to Arendts totalitarianism concept it's fine, plenty of evidence to show contradictory criticisms of Stalin and the USSR changing to fit exterior political needs but I just found it very hard to get to grips with what that then validated about Stalin himself.
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Jun 4, 2021 22:32
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well the book took a two-pronged approach in comparing stalin to his contemporaries, it pointed out on the one hand that (on the specific topic of antisemitism and hitler/stalin as "twin monsters") that hitler's views on the jews were actually completely mainstream and held by all the rest of the big liberal world leaders, and on the other hand that not only stalin but the soviet state generally actually had a programmatic commitment to combating antisemitism basically unseen in the western world, whatever the issues in implementation were. the general idea of a society on the whole reacting to conditions on the ground rather than one dumb crazy guy who's philosophically committed to evil is threaded to the general questions of the universal vs. the particular (which i agree was the best part of the book and most interesting to me, since i'd read all the particular historical apologism from people like martens and furr elsewhere) but also more specific institutions like the gulags, the '30s purges, etc
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Jun 4, 2021 22:56
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https://twitter.com/ericfish85/status/1400845981097381888?s=20 someone hook me up with some pure socialism
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Jun 4, 2021 22:59
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lmao
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Jun 4, 2021 23:07
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oh yeah? word?
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Jun 4, 2021 23:37
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Truga posted:i read the first 20 or so pages today and it also challenges a bunch of super common bullshit myths about stalin in the beginning, so if people read just those bits that'd be pretty nice
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Jun 5, 2021 00:01
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Atrocious Joe posted:https://twitter.com/ericfish85/status/1400845981097381888?s=20 its largely adulterated with liberalism, its hard to find any that hasn't been stepped on a few dozen times along the supply chain
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Jun 5, 2021 00:23
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splifyphus posted:nice username/post combo. yes, this thing would have been totally bad even if the cia didn't corrupt it and gently caress it over and neuter it just like the american left and the black power movement. why is psilocybin being researched for its therapeutic value? why were lsd and mdma researched for the same thing before being demonized? why did so many indigenous south american cultures figure out so many different ways of doing dmt? why is peyote a legally recognized sacrament?
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Jun 5, 2021 02:28
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Centrist Committee posted:they also produced steve jobs woz did all the acid and just described it to jobs who took all the credit. rod holt, who was their dealer, invented one of the most crucial and overlooked components in modern electronic devices.
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Jun 5, 2021 02:32
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The Voice of Labor posted:yes, this thing would have been totally bad even if the cia didn't corrupt it and gently caress it over and neuter it just like the american left and the black power movement. why is psilocybin being researched for its therapeutic value? why were lsd and mdma researched for the same thing before being demonized? why did so many indigenous south american cultures figure out so many different ways of doing dmt? why is peyote a legally recognized sacrament? ur ignoring the social relations that make native medicines so valuable. sorry to be the bearer of bad news but you live in a capitalist dystopia and you can’t trip your way to revolution.
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Jun 5, 2021 03:38
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real tripping to a revolution has never been tried
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Jun 5, 2021 03:54
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the stoned ape hypothesis is real. we tripped our way to sapience we can trip our way past it
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Jun 5, 2021 03:58
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machine elves are proletarian https://youtu.be/bIt_Di_nYOc
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Jun 5, 2021 04:01
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The Voice of Labor posted:real tripping to a revolution has never been tried this was a major credo of a looooot of agitation in the sixties, tho even the diggers, who were pretty much in agreement to that, eventually started getting pissed off with others who thought communalism happened like magic through drugs and got the freeloaders to either bust a move or gtfo
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Jun 5, 2021 06:03
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The Voice of Labor posted:yes, this thing would have been totally bad even if the cia didn't corrupt it and gently caress it over and neuter it just like the american left and the black power movement. why is psilocybin being researched for its therapeutic value? why were lsd and mdma researched for the same thing before being demonized? why did so many indigenous south american cultures figure out so many different ways of doing dmt? why is peyote a legally recognized sacrament? come on man you're really harshing my buzz, just roll with it
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Jun 5, 2021 08:04
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do I think that directed psychedelic therapy could lead to more solidarity and a revolutionary consciousness? sure. that’s not really the same as tripping and about as likely as a GCU showing up in orbit where’s Zakalwe when you need him smh
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Jun 5, 2021 10:34
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i was gonna abolish the value form but i got high
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Jun 5, 2021 11:14
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didn't timothy leary work with the cia or some poo poo?
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Jun 5, 2021 11:16
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i was gonna eliminate class before I got high
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Jun 5, 2021 12:56
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It's too powerful and dangerous, that's why only the shaman takes it. If the whole crew gets hosed up the crew will be hosed up. Anyone can do anything is capital propaganda
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Jun 5, 2021 17:07
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anyone can do anything is the point of communism, to fish in the morning, fill potholes in the afternoon, write socialist critique in the evening, rave all night and make out with your dad the next morning before going out fishing again
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Jun 5, 2021 17:41
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The Voice of Labor posted:anyone can do anything is the point of communism, to fish in the morning, fill potholes in the afternoon, write socialist critique in the evening, rave all night and make out with your dad the next morning before going out fishing again Specialization is for insects
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Jun 5, 2021 17:44
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division of labor disenfranchises everyone and steals their praxis and turns them into cogs in the machine. the only thing more central to the core of capitalism is prohibiting mind expanding substances
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Jun 5, 2021 17:44
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mycomancy posted:Specialization is for insects Anyone can be a biochemist
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Jun 5, 2021 18:03
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Epitope posted:Anyone can be a biochemist No, but biochemists should also know how to build a structure, cook, raise kids, run a small business affair, and read philosophy. It's not that everyone can be something, it's that everyone should be many things.
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Jun 5, 2021 18:10
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I was just joshing ya, since 10 minutes ago you were giving that guy a hard time for daring to think he could dabble in your specialization
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Jun 5, 2021 18:17
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yr new gurlfrand! posted:i was gonna eliminate class before I got high https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxz2m7BFBrU
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Jun 5, 2021 18:57
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denouncing stalin because he lied about being able to bring aeris back to life
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Jun 5, 2021 19:03
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Marx smoked weed
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Jun 5, 2021 20:00
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Epitope posted:I was just joshing ya, since 10 minutes ago you were giving that guy a hard time for daring to think he could dabble in your specialization Is this gangstalking?
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Jun 5, 2021 20:33
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much more relevant lyrics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbHLj7xt5Rw
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Jun 5, 2021 20:34
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mycomancy posted:Is this gangstalking? I'm probably misunderstanding your joke, but i meant this https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3368821&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=159#post515249553 which i see is actually yesterday not ten minutes ago. Time is capitalist propaganda and psylocibin is a divine gift
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Jun 5, 2021 22:08
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I'm with the mushroom guy arguing with the mushroom guy
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Jun 5, 2021 22:18
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I’m pretty sure the only Bolshevik who may have done pot or psychedelics would have been Trotsky. The results are plain to see.
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Jun 5, 2021 22:22
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Bogdanov, Lunacharsky, and Radek were absolutely all 24/7 blazed
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Jun 5, 2021 22:27
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based on what (little) I know of her there’s no way Kollontai didn’t try drugs. Trotsky seems like he’d be stuck up about it.
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Jun 5, 2021 22:32
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wasn’t kollontai a bit of a prude? idk. I think Trotsky could have in Mexico to impress a woman.
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Jun 5, 2021 22:33
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mawarannahr posted:wasn’t kollontai a bit of a prude? idk. no
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Jun 5, 2021 22:35
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| # ? May 26, 2024 00:13 |
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All the marxists i like would have all the personal qualities that i approve of, and they would all be my friends
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Jun 5, 2021 22:36
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