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Xelkelvos posted:Are we sure she's actually been gone for some amount of time in her world yet though? Digimon Adventure did tine dilation to get around that issue.
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Jun 5, 2021 16:07
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Covok posted:Digimon Adventure did tine dilation to get around that issue. The next time we see Sasha again, she'll be in her early forties.
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Jun 5, 2021 18:25
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I'm expecting time travel but that might just be because I can't look at Frobo without thinking about Chrono Trigger.
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Jun 6, 2021 00:30
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Xelkelvos posted:Are we sure she's actually been gone for some amount of time in her world yet though? No, but I think that it's reasonable assumption. Meanwhile, figure that Anne's parents are cut from the same benevolently neglectful cloth as Marco's folks on Star vs. the Forces of Evil. Because they're presumably okay with letting a bunch of talking alien frogs live in their home and hang out with their missing and only recently returned daughter..
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Jun 6, 2021 01:11
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Xelkelvos posted:Are we sure she's actually been gone for some amount of time in her world yet though? no, i'm just speculating!
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Jun 6, 2021 01:36
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What we know about Anne's mom:
I suspect Sasha's parents are either more hands-off or Sasha has them mostly fooled about what she gets up to. Sasha has really taken to the challenges and rewards of forming a toad empire over the challenges and rewards of being a bratty middle schooler.
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Jun 6, 2021 03:11
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In general, one thing I always hate in stories is when characters who have been nothing but garbage their entire lives act like nothing ever happened after their development. The villagers in Naruto and Bakugo in My Hero Academia both fall into this trap of "Yeah, you've been through lot over the last couple of years, we all have - but what's your excuse for the miserable bullshit you pulled for the 14 years before that?" He's always been a two-faced prick, claiming to want to be a hero while bullying the most defenseless kids in his class, and his behaviour hasn't changed THAT much, so while he's starting to get better it's after 4 seasons and an entire lifetime of being the absolute worst person in the universe, so I'm hoping he at SOME POINT gets called out for that. He's Deku's rival NOW, but for the first 4 seasons he was just his villain. It's why I appreciate Owl House and Horizon Zero Dawn, the characters don't accept that kind of turnaround. It's especially annoying when the main character tries to not engage with them at all and they get all pissy and thinking "What, you think you're too good for me?" when the correct answer is, "No, I KNOW I'm too good for you."
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Jun 6, 2021 09:14
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Zuko in Avatar comes to mind, where he's held to account for his actions even and especially because of how close he'd come to switching sides before. In Naruto's case I figure it's just Naruto being an idiot and happy that people are treating him better now.
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Jun 6, 2021 12:23
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Naruto was never the problem. He's lucky he was as well adjusted as he was given the abusive behaviour of 90% of the people in his life. It's not surprising he decided to deliberately act out and gently caress up all the traditions the village had. They deserved the humiliation of being home to the Sexy Jitsu.
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Jun 6, 2021 12:34
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Zuko in Avatar comes to mind, where he's held to account for his actions even and especially because of how close he'd come to switching sides before. Every villain redemption arc wishes it could be Zuko's arc, let's be real here. It's one of the best done versions of that arc in kids media. Like, I love She-ra And the Princess Of Power and I'm glad Catra turned good and they got to be big gay lesbians, but they did forgive her awfully easy despite destroying reality. Or did they? Wait, it's been a while: how much did they call her out on her bullshit, if any?
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Jun 6, 2021 16:46
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Bakugo is the worst part of MHA for me, and every time the story turns to him I just sigh. It bothers me that the rest of the class bother to engage with him in any way.
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Jun 6, 2021 16:46
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The_Doctor posted:Bakugo is the worst part of MHA for me, and every time the story turns to him I just sigh. It bothers me that the rest of the class bother to engage with him in any way. I did find it hilarious to have class 1-B panicking because "OH poo poo BAKUGO HAS LEARNED HOW TO PLAY WELL AS A TEAM WE'RE ALL hosed!" in the latest arc. Also I just watched season 1 of Hilda. It's really charming. The Elves are hilarious. also WoodMan owns.
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Jun 6, 2021 16:54
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BioEnchanted posted:In general, one thing I always hate in stories is when characters who have been nothing but garbage their entire lives act like nothing ever happened after their development. The villagers in Naruto and Bakugo in My Hero Academia both fall into this trap of "Yeah, you've been through lot over the last couple of years, we all have - but what's your excuse for the miserable bullshit you pulled for the 14 years before that?" He's always been a two-faced prick, claiming to want to be a hero while bullying the most defenseless kids in his class, and his behaviour hasn't changed THAT much, so while he's starting to get better it's after 4 seasons and an entire lifetime of being the absolute worst person in the universe, so I'm hoping he at SOME POINT gets called out for that. He's Deku's rival NOW, but for the first 4 seasons he was just his villain. I have not seen all episodes of Amphibia so I might well be talking out of my rear end a little, but I don't think Sasha, at least, comes off as a "garbage" character. She's a little snooty and very much saw herself as the "alpha" of the Anne/Marcy/Sasha friendship trio, but she also clearly cares about both Anne and Marcy. It seemed like at least half the reason she supported the Toads was to carve out a place of power and safety so that her friends would be cared for (since they were presumably stuck in Amphibia for the rest of their lives). She also seems to care about Grime, too (possibly as a kind of surrogate father-figure, which makes one wonder what Sasha's family life was like back in LA. Honestly, there's a lot about Sasha that's kind of interesting to me. In LA she was apparently a popular cheerleader, but her best friends are two nerdy (or at least less popular) Asian-American girls (I assume that with the last name "Wu" Marcy is supposed to be Asian-American). Whatever else Sasha is, she's pretty clearly not the typical "mean girl who screws with the nerdy hero" that one might have expected her to be.
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Jun 6, 2021 18:50
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Everyone posted:I have not seen all episodes of Amphibia so I might well be talking out of my rear end a little, but I don't think Sasha, at least, comes off as a "garbage" character. She's a little snooty and very much saw herself as the "alpha" of the Anne/Marcy/Sasha friendship trio, but she also clearly cares about both Anne and Marcy. It seemed like at least half the reason she supported the Toads was to carve out a place of power and safety so that her friends would be cared for (since they were presumably stuck in Amphibia for the rest of their lives). She also seems to care about Grime, too (possibly as a kind of surrogate father-figure, which makes one wonder what Sasha's family life was like back in LA. I specifically chose examples that supported my point - Sasha wasn't one of them, she clearly has some serious issues to work out but there is something positive there despite that. Her behaviour as a child was all "Standing up for her friends", rather that subjugation. That came later as she matured in a bad direction. She is the exact opposite of Bakugo.
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Jun 6, 2021 19:04
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I watched the first five episodes of The Owl House this morning and was kinda surprised at how much I dug it. It’s not as funny as Gravity Falls but I really like the world and the characters and the story that’s slowly unfolding.
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Jun 6, 2021 19:19
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I've always been a fan of monsters with mask faces, but their true face implied by a small chip or crack that shows part of what they really look like, like the season 2 Hilda character Grylla It's a cool idea and has a fun air of mystery, with just enough of it's true face shown to give you the idea that you REALLY don't ever want to see the rest of it. Bayonetta's Angels and the villains of Owl House and Over the Garden Wall also fit that niche.
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Jun 6, 2021 21:30
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BioEnchanted posted:I specifically chose examples that supported my point - Sasha wasn't one of them, she clearly has some serious issues to work out but there is something positive there despite that. Her behaviour as a child was all "Standing up for her friends", rather that subjugation. That came later as she matured in a bad direction. She is the exact opposite of Bakugo. No biggie. I was reacting to the context of your comments, I think. The last sentence of the post just prior to yours talked about Sasha and then yours started talking about reformed villains (which Sasha kind of is - even if she maybe hasn't completely reformed just yet) and their shows' refusal/reluctance to acknowledge their former villainy. I do like that Sasha and Grime are probably still kind of villains at this point. It's just that now we know that King Andrias is a "build child molesting (or at least child stabbing) robots" villain and way worse by comparison.
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Jun 6, 2021 22:00
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Everyone posted:No biggie. I was reacting to the context of your comments, I think. The last sentence of the post just prior to yours talked about Sasha and then yours started talking about reformed villains (which Sasha kind of is - even if she maybe hasn't completely reformed just yet) and their shows' refusal/reluctance to acknowledge their former villainy. I think part of it is the importance of context - since death is super cheap in dragonball and all the planets Vegeta destroys before meeting Goku are one-episode wonders that you have no time to build an attachment to, that poo poo being ignored feels less silly simply because we are further removed from it. In stark contrast, Bakugo has repeated scenes throughout his childhood beating the poo poo out of defenseless children with his explosions, and trying to convince them to kill themselves simply because they intruded on his territory, and since one of those kids was the main character it feels a lot more raw. I think one thing that does help a bit with Bakugo is he cleary has some kind of inferiority complex. The kid needs therapy REALLY badly, he's not completely well. Otherwise the main character trying to stand up for him wouldn't sting so badly. It's an aspect that the translation doesn't help with either, because in their first pivotal scene with the goo monster, the dialog is changed between the japanese version so that it twists the knife less. In English Midoriya says "It looked like you were in trouble", a completely neutral thing. However, in Japanese the wording is slightly different so it hits Bakugo SO hard in his insecurities it clearly severely triggers him. He hates the idea of appearing weak compared to others, so the wording that Midoriya uses, "It looked like you were asking for help", is infinitely worse for him psychologically. Because there is some mental health stuff going on there is kind of makes Bakugo more understandable even if it's not forgiveable. I think a good summary is that Bakugo is basically Azula, but he has a strong enough support network that it's gradually helping him pull his head out of his rear end eventually. BioEnchanted fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 22:21
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Did Bakugo ever properly apologize to Deku for the decade+ of ruthlessly bullying him for having a disability*? Because until he does that I'm going to keep ranking him below the weird little sex offender no matter how much they try and explain his behavior. *Yes, being quirkless is essentially a disability in the world of MHA and is treated as such in the text of the story. This is also why Deku getting Superman powers randomly handed to him has always read as kind of sketchy to me.
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Jun 6, 2021 23:37
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readingatwork posted:Did Bakugo ever properly apologize to Deku for the decade+ of ruthlessly bullying him for having a disability*? Because until he does that I'm going to keep ranking him below the weird little sex offender no matter how much they try and explain his behavior. As far as I’m aware, no
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Jun 6, 2021 23:48
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MHA also had Endeavor who horribly abused his entire family, to the point that his wife had to be committed to a mental hospital, didn't even really need to apologize and is even repairing his relationship with his son without doing so. (Maybe the manga had it though).
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Jun 7, 2021 00:12
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IShallRiseAgain posted:MHA also had Endeavor who horribly abused his entire family, to the point that his wife had to be committed to a mental hospital, didn't even really need to apologize and is even repairing his relationship with his son without doing so. (Maybe the manga had it though). He kind of does later but his family situation gets a lot more intense later on (since it seems you haven’t read the manga I won’t go any further than that)
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Jun 7, 2021 00:15
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ugh once again it's time for bakugou discourse here in the mha thread wait
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Jun 7, 2021 00:39
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readingatwork posted:Did Bakugo ever properly apologize to Deku for the decade+ of ruthlessly bullying him for having a disability*? Because until he does that I'm going to keep ranking him below the weird little sex offender no matter how much they try and explain his behavior. No apology yet, but their relationship becomes way better and he does (manga spoilers) almost die saving Deku's life in a genuinely heroic way. Also I don't really agree that someone should be judged that harshly for the stuff they did as a lovely child. He cuts that stuff out way at the start of the series and the stuff we see in the first episode is said to be unusually harsh for him by his friends. Nephthys fucked around with this message at 00:52 on Jun 7, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 00:46
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I think redemption is a really complicated idea that a lot of people are gonna have some really complicated feelings about, even if it's really, really appealing to some people. I think there's even a lot of real-world consequences for people not valuing the concept of redemption like in the criminal justice system. Amphibia had an interesting point where Anne has like a tentative acceptence of Sasha's repentance before she started to trust her again, although it sorta turned out that she was right to not trust. Sasha probably doesn't even really understand what Anne was upset right now anyways. "What, are you trying to say that the newt king also your surrogate frog family?!" And to be fair, Sasha was more plugged into Amphibian politics, and the king's rule doesn't seem great. Toads are brutal, but they're enforcing the newt's rule over Amphibiland, and the price for failure to contain the frogs is death.
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Jun 7, 2021 02:34
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I really hope Hilda gets a season 3, it's otherwise ended on a massive cliffhanger.
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Jun 7, 2021 03:29
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SlothfulCobra posted:I think redemption is a really complicated idea that a lot of people are gonna have some really complicated feelings about, even if it's really, really appealing to some people. I think there's even a lot of real-world consequences for people not valuing the concept of redemption like in the criminal justice system. As someone who's never seen even one episode of My Hero Academia I'm kind of glad we're back to Amphibia because I was getting a little lost there. Since he was a gladiator, I'm really, really hoping that Season Three sees Grime turning into Toad Spartacus. King Andrias's rule seemed pretty good to me - as long as you were living in Newtopia. If you were a frog on the fringes (or a toad having to oppress the frogs on the fringes) then it kind of sucked. Another thing I hope we get in Season Three (unless we already got it and I just missed that episode) is an "origin story" for how Anne, Sasha and Marcy became friends. Because right now the "best" explanation is impossible: They bonded over surviving Amphibia together.
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Jun 7, 2021 03:40
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They cover their meeting in The Second Temple.
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Jun 7, 2021 03:42
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Yeah, Anne and Marcy were being bullied by some older kids and Sasha showed up and scared them off by trying to fight them. Then they started following her, which formed a codependency.
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Jun 7, 2021 03:44
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readingatwork posted:*Yes, being quirkless is essentially a disability in the world of MHA and is treated as such in the text of the story. This is also why Deku getting Superman powers randomly handed to him has always read as kind of sketchy to me. Having not seen it, I always felt that was the kinda thing that might make sense in-universe; on top of the other reasons for picking someone to pass down the powers to, it makes sense to give them to someone who doesn't already have powers; not just to give the kid a break, but to take someone whose ability to contribute physically is minimal and make them an asset instead of a liability, and also to not overshadow an existing Quirk, or let them be distracted by what they were already focusing on by giving them a ton of other stuff to go with it. I always kinda saw the premise of the show as basically 'X-Men with the human:mutant proportions inverted'. Does remind me that apparently, particularly radical Quirks like being giant all the time that make it difficult to fit into normal society are actually recognised as effective disabilities in-universe, and qualify for welfare. (apparently one character uses that to make a giant-friendly cafe)
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Jun 7, 2021 06:38
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Of course there's also another advantage to weigh with picking someone quirkless vs someone with a quirk already due to recent revelations regarding the nature of One for All - one for all is a power made up of multiple quirks, the first user had naturally the quirk to pass down his quirk, on it's own completely pointless. His brother, the monstrous All For One, forced him to accept an additional quirk because neither of them thought the base quirk existed, the new quirk being the power to STOCK power, again, useless on it's own. however it mutated and the quirks became unstable and basically fused for form One for All, the power to stock power and THEN pass it down. All the physical strength of each user, multiplied down the generations. however the latest episode revealed something else - if someone with a quirk is given One for All on top of their existing one, the quirks merge with it themselves. One for All is basically at this point an amalgam of 8 base quirks that as Deku gets stronger he will start unlocking, stocking+passing down+6 other quirks from the first 6 users. All Might and Deku not having quirks to begin with have kind of stabilised it, and Deku is going to be the first person to be able to access the other quirks fully, he just needs to unlock them. There is now a strategic component to who to pass it down to.
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Jun 7, 2021 06:55
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BioEnchanted posted:I really hope Hilda gets a season 3, it's otherwise ended on a massive cliffhanger. No word on a season 3, but the cliffhanger will be resolved in a 70 minute special this year. Which also probably means it's over. Having read the comic it was based on, it also feels like a decent place to end, but I'd definitely love to see more.
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Jun 7, 2021 10:46
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK8L8r-L0iw I love that the kid who bullied them had a super New York accent despite being in California. Like what's your story swing stealer?
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Jun 7, 2021 12:48
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SlothfulCobra posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TK8L8r-L0iw "My dad got a new job so I had to move away from New York to California, leaving all my old friends behind. I wish I'd just been able to find some magic box that I could've used to strand myself and my friends in some alien dimension filled with monsters instead, but I guess I'll settle for making one new friend and briefly bullying other children by stealing swings from them with her."
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Jun 7, 2021 13:17
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And we have our first voiced footage of Lola from the new Space Jam movie: https://twitter.com/thecinebr/status/1401660023424667650
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Jun 7, 2021 14:57
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Having not seen it, I always felt that was the kinda thing that might make sense in-universe; on top of the other reasons for picking someone to pass down the powers to, it makes sense to give them to someone who doesn't already have powers; not just to give the kid a break, but to take someone whose ability to contribute physically is minimal and make them an asset instead of a liability, and also to not overshadow an existing Quirk, or let them be distracted by what they were already focusing on by giving them a ton of other stuff to go with it. It's not really a question of making sense or not to me. It's a matter of people with real disabilities not being able to have somebody stroll by and go "Oh! You seem like a cool dude! Here's your leg back. And it is THE GREATEST LEG TO HAVE EVER EXISTED!". It sends a very awkward message to real people dealing with personal limitations who usually have to learn to adapt to their situation rather than fix/overcome it. I get the power fantasy/Captain America vibe the show is going for and it's fine for the most part. I just think it would have been a much more meaningful and interesting story if they'd gone for more of a Batman thing where Deku is still quirkless but instead used gadgets and his deep knowledge of his opponents to overcome much stronger supervillains (which I hear was actually how an earlier version of the manga would have worked).
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Jun 7, 2021 15:02
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5 days til more Owl House! Glory be to Hoot Prime! Rejoice, Boiling Isles!
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Jun 7, 2021 15:05
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readingatwork posted:It's not really a question of making sense or not to me. It's a matter of people with real disabilities not being able to have somebody stroll by and go "Oh! You seem like a cool dude! Here's your leg back. And it is THE GREATEST LEG TO HAVE EVER EXISTED!". It sends a very awkward message to real people dealing with personal limitations who usually have to learn to adapt to their situation rather than fix/overcome it. That's not really how it's presented though. He doesn't just get handed power for free, he gets told to do some intense workouts to build up strength, and after he puts in all that work and effort, then he gets given the power, and even then he has to painfully adjust to it because it keeps breaking his bones. There's a whole theme of hard work in there even if there is a handout at some point in the process. It's weird to me that people always bring up Batman as a counter to the power fantasy, because in most of his incarnations and his overall place in pop culture is more of a power fantasy than even most other superheroes. Like sure, he doesn't have any literally supernatural abilities like shooting lasers from his eyes, but he is supposed to be one of the smartest people in the world, world's greatest detective, he has amazing fighting abilities from studying with the best around the world, an indominatable iron will just because, and also the real-world superpowers of high status and being fabulously wealthy so he can afford to do whatever and be secure in his lifestyle so long as there's not any sinister forces actively and intentionally working against him. And a guy who can shoot lasers from his eyes, like Cyclops, is actually tormented by the ability and forced to wear dorky glasses everywhere. Hulk is a more direct example of all his powers being more of a curse than anything else. Superman has to be aggressively humble at times. Spiderman sometimes loses fights and regularly gets beaten down by his normal life. You'd think that whole theoretical natural humility of Batman would show more when he works with superpowered characters, but all of his "natural powers" get turned up to 11 when he's with the Justice League. And it's fine for Batman to be a power fantasy, and it's fine for there to be stories about him that turn down the power fantasy aspect, just so long as they manage to tell a good story. Batman has actually managed to have a lot of dynamism as a character. I actually don't like a lot of more recent Spiderman stories that turn up the power fantasy and turn down the Peter Parker disempowerment, because when you take away Spiderman's struggle, he just kinda seems like an rear end in a top hat.
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Jun 7, 2021 17:47
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I like that All-Might's entire arc is being called out by allies for being an idiot. first it's Deku showing him up by running into a hopeless fight making him realise that in that moment Deku has more balls that he did and is actually ACTING the hero, then it's Deku's mother telling him off for being overdramatic just being all "No idiot, don't push yourself that hard, no one wants you to kill yourself for Midoriya. Look after yourself so you can look after my son. He's learning bad habits from you." Then in the latest arc Bakugo calling both him and Deku out for being terrible at keeping secrets. "YO! ALL-MIGHT! You can't keep sneaking off with Deku giggling like schoolgirls all the time, people will NOTICE!" Most of the adult's arcs are learning better habits from the next generation after the prior one hosed them up with bad parenting or toxic mindsets. It's kind of interesting that All Might is kind of deconstructing the usual Hero Mindset of secret identities and self-destructive "I'm the only line of defense!" mindsets that traditional heroes take for granted. Also while the crush is annoyingly written I do like Ururaika's arc overall, it's very satisfying.
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Jun 7, 2021 18:11
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SlothfulCobra posted:That's not really how it's presented though. He doesn't just get handed power for free, he gets told to do some intense workouts to build up strength, and after he puts in all that work and effort, then he gets given the power, and even then he has to painfully adjust to it because it keeps breaking his bones. There's a whole theme of hard work in there even if there is a handout at some point in the process. I love me some Batman, but dear God is that true. Supes is humble as a matter of course, his issue is more a combination of being TOO strong where he has to gague his strength at all times lest he accidentally break his parents in half when hugging them or rip someone's hand off when shaking it as well as the Bruce Almighty where he wants to help EVERYONE he can, but there are limitations of various kinds and it eats at him. Not to mention he very much has to be ENTIRELY Lawful at all times to maintain the public trust. And yeah MHA has always been explicitly about hard work given that in spite of being given said Superman power, Deku still needs to work staggeringly hard to accommodate for the lack of Secondary Powers.
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Jun 7, 2021 20:00
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