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Edward Mass posted:The Witchfinders was pretty good until the witches showed up. After that it did a speedrun to the finish. I really liked the climax. Genuinely felt bad for the crazy lady. Siobhan Finneran was very good value for the show, one of the best guest performances in modern Who IMO. It's very fast, but i didnt think it was undervaluing the concepts.
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Jun 5, 2021 19:24
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Rhyno posted:Predestination is a great film, watch it anyways. Somehow I wound up watching "Coherence" thinking it was the movie recommended in this discussion. Not quite the same thing, but definitely in the same field. I enjoyed it, a pretty good lowkey exploration of this realm of ideas, to say without spoiling more.
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Jun 5, 2021 20:55
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Also a good flick!
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Jun 5, 2021 22:16
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Moving onto Doom Coalition 3! River Song is always good fun, even if the story felt a little tacked on to the wider plot thread. The interviews at the end are fast becoming one of my favourite things about more recent (well, recent-ish) audios. Honestly, these smaller but well written stories like Absent Friends and The Red Lady are the kinds of stories Whittaker should be given. OldMemes fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 00:21
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Big Mean Jerk posted:Yup. It’s still easily the best episode of 13’s run thus far. I think it holds up with the best of all Doctor Who, it's utterly fantastic, and a sign of what the show is still capable of. Not every story has to be that out there/weird, but give Jodie Whittaker some meat she can bite into for her performance. The Witchfinders falls apart the moment the aliens show up, but allowing the Doctor to go head-to-head with Alan Cumming in full GIANT HAM mode makes for some fantastic stuff, as well as the way they play up her frustration at gender bias getting in the way of her trying to investigate/save the day.
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Jun 6, 2021 01:48
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https://twitter.com/badwolfarchives/status/1401093314359799813?s=21
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Jun 6, 2021 04:51
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I really wish they could have just taken the alien out of that story entirely, it doesn't hurt the story but it doesn't particularly help either, and everything else around it is just so great.
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Jun 6, 2021 05:09
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The "then why are you crying?" scene is also very good. Man, Smith's tenure really is the best of NuWho.
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Jun 6, 2021 08:35
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Rhyno posted:The "then why are you crying?" scene is also very good. Man, Smith's tenure really is the best of NuWho.  I can’t even imagine Tennant doing some of those lines justice in the way Smith does.
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Jun 6, 2021 10:59
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Don't get me wrong, I adore Peter Capaldi and he is probably my favorite revival Doctor but he didn't get as many good stories as Smith did.
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Jun 6, 2021 11:23
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Season 5 is still the very loving best overall season of new Who (and up there with the absolute best of the classic series, though it's kind of apples and oranges given the change in formats/structure). I have to laugh when I think about how the only really sour spot in Season 5 are the two stories written by, of course, Chris Chibnall. Capaldi's season 8 and season 10 are both very, very, very good as well. And Season 8 has Mummy on the Orient Express and Flatline back to back which are both crazy good. Season 10 has Oxygen too and  to that episode. Just beautiful.
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Jun 6, 2021 11:52
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Smith brings such depth to the part. There’s subtlety in spades and he’s an absolute master of his craft.
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Jun 6, 2021 11:54
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The_Doctor posted:Smith brings such depth to the part. There’s subtlety in spades and he’s an absolute master of his craft. Yup. It's ironic that the youngest person to ever play the part somehow still feels like the oldest version of the character. I think it's in the eyes. That's some drat fine eye acting.
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Jun 6, 2021 12:09
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Tennant had moments, such as the “I used to have so much mercy” line, but Smith really nailed the weariness of a Time Lord on their last regeneration. There’s probably also something about how the doctors and/or their stories map to the five stages of grief. Tennant is the most obvious in that regard.
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Jun 6, 2021 12:55
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Sadly, this sort of discussion emphasises how little Jodie Whittaker's been given to work with. Has she had a single memorable moment in 2 series? I cat think of one.
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Jun 6, 2021 13:20
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Casually using Venusian Akido on the jerk from The Ghost Monument to shut up his arrogant posturing was fun, and I wouldn't mind seeing her demonstrate that kind of - not aggression so much - being more proactive I guess. I liked the way she undercut Tzim-Sha's self-importance in The Woman Who Fell To Earth (which is actually a drat good story and not a bad intro to the show at all), and the previously mentioned It Takes You Away her disgust for the dad's selfish attitude and the way she smooth-talked the sentient universe was really nicely handled. I also like the character trait of her being an enthusiastic participant in other cultures or customs that she may not be familiar with but is eager to understand or be involved in. I think Demons of the Punjab is a good example of this, both her interest in the customs of the wedding as well as her quick adoption of the memorial gestures of the aliens she had only a few minutes earlier been accusing of being the villains. Season 12 is I think where she becomes WAAAAY more passive as a character and things just kind of happen around her. Jodie Whittaker is still really good but there's only so much an actor can bring to the role when she keeps getting written to just run along with what is happening and not really offer much of anything until things just kind of get resolved because she managed to keep everybody alive long enough for things to kind of fall into place. Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 13:32
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Jerusalem posted:I also like the character trait of her being an enthusiastic participant in other cultures or customs that she may not be familiar with but is eager to understand or be involved in. I think Demons of the Punjab is a good example of this, both her interest in the customs of the wedding as well as her quick adoption of the memorial gestures of the aliens she had only a few minutes earlier been accusing of being the villains. This was such a great moment, and to me the most memorable. I loved how quick she was to turn around her thinking and realize that they were being sincere. It's not just that this incarnation is particularly more empathetic than any other (because she's a woman, rite), it's that she is much more fluid in her thinking and the Doctor's natural curiosity has a more adoptive element to it. It's a great take on some of the Doctor's core character elements and I wish we could see more of that.
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Jun 6, 2021 14:33
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:This was such a great moment, and to me the most memorable. I loved how quick she was to turn around her thinking and realize that they were being sincere. It's not just that this incarnation is particularly more empathetic than any other (because she's a woman, rite), it's that she is much more fluid in her thinking and the Doctor's natural curiosity has a more adoptive element to it. It's a great take on some of the Doctor's core character elements and I wish we could see more of that. Maybe she’s more positive in her emotions, but Chibnall especially has gone out of his way to make her socially awkward in any kind of one-on-one situation involving relationships. As if the previous incarnation’s character arc led up to a big nothing. Having the Doctor either unable to human-emotion or unable to detect human emotion was always a bad idea; compare with Four, who was keenly observant and perfectly capable of detecting human emotion and just didn’t care much of the time, and whose alien-ness came out on having different emotional reactions to things and not in behaving like a bad stereotype of an autistic person. Thirteen has been problematic because they seemed to have made a decision to play against those bad new-series tendencies but then had the same (because she’s a woman, rite) thought and made it a mess trying to not do that. Nobody insisted that Five suddenly became emotionally available or hapless because he was blonde. It’s an understandable but infuriating thing to suggest that the Doctor became something because of being a woman now, but it’s also infuriating to insist the change had no effect. The Chibnall years so far have displayed a real lack of self-confidence that undermines much of what’s being done. Davies was full of bravado and Moffat actively trolled fans; I’m still not sure how to characterize Chibnall. Does he lack the courage of all his convictions, or are his convictions simply unintelligible? I love Jodie’s performance, but she’s been largely wasted, and our brief glimpse of Jo Martin’s Doctor shows us what could have been done with a female Doctor and a bit more confidence in the character. But it’s not good that I can characterize the showrunner who gave us the massive Time Lord retcon the thread mostly hates at the end of the last season as lacking in confidence. We should see Chibnall as a megatroll and instead he comes across as a ditherer.
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Jun 6, 2021 15:40
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Before Broadchurch I always figured Chibnall for somebody who basically just aped what other showrunners did because he figured that was what they wanted. Broadchurch was a revelation, and while the second season fell apart so badly I never watched the third (I heard it was better than the second but that's a pretty loving low bar) it did give me hope that divorced from trying to be RTD-lite or Moffat-lite (the former more often than the latter) he'd actually be able to produce something really worthwhile. He certainly seems to have the knack for pulling together incredible talents, both in cast and crew, and he made the show look great... but the editing has also been really oddly haphazard at times, he writes or co-writes WAAAAAY too many of the episodes, and I really think he would probably benefit from taking a big step back from the actual writing and just focus on the other production aspects of the show. Also, bring in some of the past writers: Jamie Mathieson should be writing a new Who at least every couple of years at minimum, the guy is loving fantastic.
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Jun 6, 2021 15:52
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Jerusalem posted:Also, bring in some of the past writers: Jamie Mathieson should be writing a new Who at least every couple of years at minimum, the guy is loving fantastic. Yeah, I don’t understand the complete jettisoning of everything. Sure, nurture new talent, bring new writers in, but don’t just straight up throw away your existing gold.
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Jun 6, 2021 16:05
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Narsham posted:compare with Four, who was keenly observant and perfectly capable of detecting human emotion and just didn’t care much of the time, and also detecting when someone is attractive (probably). quote:The Chibnall years so far have displayed a real lack of self-confidence that undermines much of what’s being done. Davies was full of bravado and Moffat actively trolled fans; I’m still not sure how to characterize Chibnall. Does he lack the courage of all his convictions, or are his convictions simply unintelligible? Jerusalem posted:Before Broadchurch I always figured Chibnall for somebody who basically just aped what other showrunners did because he figured that was what they wanted. It always seemed to me that the awkwardness she gets saddled with most of the time is the result of Chibs deliberately trying to have her ape some of Tennant's mannerisms. He doesn't really know what he wants or how to make it all fit together.
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Jun 6, 2021 16:48
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https://twitter.com/sparham/status/1401513907324325890?s=20
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Jun 6, 2021 19:10
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I fell off the Chibs era quite quickly (briefly coming back for the fist special and Spyfall) due to how unengaging the episode are. Are people aware of this video? https://youtu.be/o8_A7n83Rh0
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Jun 6, 2021 19:31
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And Daleks! 
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Jun 6, 2021 19:33
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Muppetjedi posted:
I'm aware it's 5 hours long.
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Jun 6, 2021 22:02
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Unkempt posted:I'm aware it's 5 hours long. It's also got a knock-off "H. Bomberguy" voiceover!
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Jun 6, 2021 22:40
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Five hours is a bit much, yeah. Current Doctor Who isn't really one of those things people have a hard time putting a finger on why they dislike it. This thread has expressed in pretty concrete terms how it's bad and disappointing!
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Jun 6, 2021 23:19
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usenet celeb 1992 posted:It always seemed to me that the awkwardness she gets saddled with most of the time is the result of Chibs deliberately trying to have her ape some of Tennant's mannerisms. He doesn't really know what he wants or how to make it all fit together. Which is frustrating since ever since 1969 there has been an emergency glass case set up in the BBC with a single piece of paper that reads,"When in doubt, ape Troughton" and he could be using that instead.
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Jun 6, 2021 23:44
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Jerusalem posted:Which is frustrating since ever since 1969 there has been an emergency glass case set up in the BBC with a single piece of paper that reads,"When in doubt, ape Troughton" and he could be using that instead. Sadly, in 2011 someone misread the paper, and while they were able to successfully engineer an ape Troughton, the ape then charmed its keeper and escaped and has yet to be recaptured.
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Jun 7, 2021 00:06
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They called around to Frazer Hines' house for help, but in a surely entirely unrelated matter they found the front door smashed in and signs of finger marks on the floor leading out through the garden, smashed through the fence and off into the distance towards Wendy Padbury's house.
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Jun 7, 2021 00:54
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I just want them to play 13's theme while she does something clever. 
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Jun 7, 2021 00:58
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LividLiquid posted:I just want them to play 13's theme while she does something clever. God, remember 12's theme kicking in as he pointed the device loaded with all Maisie's negative emotions at his own head and taking the Foretold away from her so he could deal with it instead?  Or striding out of the TARDIS to banish the Boneless? What I'm saying is: Jerusalem posted:Jamie Mathieson should be writing a new Who at least every couple of years at minimum, the guy is loving fantastic.
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Jun 7, 2021 01:13
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Ah yes, the good ol' "lemme repeat the same point for 45 minutes, then summarize the past 45 minutes in 3 minutes, and then repeat that for another 4 hours because CONTENT" I am amazed at how many times and variations of "the characters have no character and barely react to anything around them while only ever reacting to outside stimuli rather than have any agency of their own" they managed to squeeze in there And the really funny thing is: they're not wrong They just go about it in the most obnoxious way possible
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Jun 7, 2021 01:19
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Jerusalem posted:God, remember 12's theme kicking in as he pointed the device loaded with all Maisie's negative emotions at his own head and taking the Foretold away from her so he could deal with it instead? let's all watch that now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZqNDkSqL4TA And it has the callbacks to nine and eleven! Just drat fine Doctor Who. 
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Jun 7, 2021 01:49
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"You're relieved, soldier." Goddamn, gets me every time 
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Jun 7, 2021 04:05
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Jerusalem posted:I liked the way she undercut Tzim-Sha's self-importance in The Woman Who Fell To Earth (which is actually a drat good story and not a bad intro to the show at all), The bit about her deliberately getting his name wrong really sours that whole thing for me. It just feels malicious and disrespectful in a particularly non-Doctorish way. Like, obviously Tzim doesn't deserve any respect, but a name is an important part of a person's identity and it just seems... insensitive not to care about that.
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Jun 7, 2021 05:40
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Flight Bisque posted:let's all watch that now. I came on board in the Moffat era. As much as that last series of Sherlock sucked on toast at the end, I still miss him. He made me feel like I was watching history even though I'd only ever seen Christmas Invasion until the 50th. Problematic, though? What can I say but yikes.
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Jun 7, 2021 06:15
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fractalairduct posted:The bit about her deliberately getting his name wrong really sours that whole thing for me. It just feels malicious and disrespectful in a particularly non-Doctorish way. Like, obviously Tzim doesn't deserve any respect, but a name is an important part of a person's identity and it just seems... insensitive not to care about that. It sure does have some uncomfortable undertones, doesn't it? Like the time Thirteen handed a person of color over to the Nazis, or the time Eleven encountered a greedy villain named Solomon...
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Jun 7, 2021 06:37
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I came out of the closet and decided I wanted to transition Christmas Eve of 2017 in large part due to 12's regeneration into 13. It hurt SO BAD when one of her first acts was to be like, "your name? Doesn't matter, because I don't like you."
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Jun 7, 2021 06:48
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It’s beginning to look like 13 will end up as a Doctor who goes largely underutilized until a much later project gives them a chance to actually shine, like 6 under Big Finish. The real salt in the wound is that this ends up playing directly into all the YouTube nazi bullshit, even though the problem is clearly the writing and not Whittaker herself.
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Jun 7, 2021 10:42
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