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Barry Convex posted:siiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhh maybe this is an out-of-continuity The End-type thing? Is there any reason Dr. Strange can't come back as a ghost I mean it's comics, they can all come back as a ghost if the writer wants it, but Strange seems like he could literally arrange so that if he dies, he can come back as a ghost and keep doing most of the poo poo he was already doing
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Jun 5, 2021 18:12
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Barry Convex posted:siiiiiiiggggghhhhhhhh maybe this is an out-of-continuity The End-type thing? Maybe it’s that George R R Martin Doctor Strange story where he wanted a contract saying that Marvel couldn’t legally undo anything that happened in it.
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Jun 5, 2021 18:43
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Edge & Christian posted:Jack - to masturbate Of course! Marvel has a long tradition of sexual names. Disgusting.
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Jun 5, 2021 19:18
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Wanderer posted:Alyssa Wong is Chinese/Filipino. She was making a big deal a while back about how excited she was to get to write Wave. ah so this entire thing is actually incredibly stupid then gotcha
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Jun 5, 2021 19:51
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Blockhouse posted:ah so this entire thing is actually incredibly stupid then gotcha twitter.txt
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Jun 5, 2021 20:01
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OnimaruXLR posted:Is there any reason Dr. Strange can't come back as a ghost Actually he has died several times. It's just he keeps several souless homculi in a closet whenever it happens.
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Jun 6, 2021 02:12
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He also once destroyed all existence (this was before Marvel had a multiverse), but managed to convince the anthropomorphic personification of Infinity to put it back. I might be confusing two different stories, but I think it was the culmination of basically this, times a million. https://youtu.be/P9yruQM1ggc Air Skwirl fucked around with this message at 06:52 on Jun 6, 2021 |
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Jun 6, 2021 06:50
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Dawgstar posted:Apparently they had nobody actually fluent in Filipino to name their new Captain America: I'm really happy to see this new character. My uncle went from spending part of his childhood living in a cave during WWII while his father fought the Japanese, to becoming a doctor in America, and later having a son who has made a pretty good living off being a musician for bands like Slint, and Zwan (Haha). That's some American Dream poo poo if I ever heard it
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Jun 6, 2021 09:59
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Argue posted:The issue of her not being created by a Fil-Am is a more valid one, though. Marvel has a really bad track record with creating heroes from non-American backgrounds, and a lot of fans seem deaf to it. I remember when Aaron's Avengers were doing the "world tour" thing where they invited the "greatest heroes this world has to offer" from other nations to Avengers Mountain for T'Challa to talk to, and it was shocking. There was a drunken Russian bear-man, a compound Chinese hive-mind, a Native-American shaman, "Arabian Knight", all American-created stereotypes of other nations. Elsewhere the only Irish heroes (where I'm from) are Banshee (who was drawn as an Irish stereotype for literal decades and whose power is a misrepresentation of an Irish mythological creature) and Shamrock (a redhead whose gimmick was she was lucky, until her luck ran out and she became a drunk). Marvel's got this problem top-down. Once you get outside of the US you get mired in ridiculously thin stereotypes. If you go to Europe the good guys are sword-wielding knights and the bad guys are Cold War holdovers. If you go to East Asia you're mired in samurai, ninja and various exaggerated stereotypes. The creations of recent years have been a bit more sensitive about this to the degree that there's no immediately observable problems with them - they're still lacking in depth and cultural context and sensitivity. It's like if I set a comic universe in Europe and every time we go to America we run into Cowboy Man, and all he talks about are his love for six shooters and russling the cattle of freedom. I really thought Aaron bringing that arrangement of embarassing global tropes to the fore was a backdoor to reinventing Marvel's global arrangement of heroes, but that was 50 issues ago and there's been no sign of that at all. Between that, this, stuff like the Snowflake/Safe-Space debacle and the entire CB Cebulski nonsense it really seems like investing properly in international representation is something Marvel Comics is only interested in paying lip service to.
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Jun 6, 2021 20:01
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But she was created by a Filipino-American. Did you not read any of the posts made between that one and now?
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Jun 6, 2021 20:27
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While I don't disagree with any of what Nilbop said about the historical/overall issues at Marvel, just wanted to point out that Ari Agbayani was in fact created by Alyssa Wong, a Filipina-American writer, and all of the new Captains America for this series have been developed by artists and writers who share the identity/backgrounds of the new characters. You can argue it's a token effort or that these characters (or the ones introduced in Marvel Voices, Agents of Atlas, World of Wakanda, etc) aren't getting a real marketing puish behind them, or that these people should not draw inspiration from America/Captain America, there are lots of valid criticisms/reservations. But this sort of continual "these white idiots naming her Ari, why didn't they ask a Filipino person about this, why weren't they involved with the character" stuff is kind of lovely to Wong.
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Jun 6, 2021 20:30
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I'm sorry if you don't like Ursa major, gently caress you
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Jun 6, 2021 21:35
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I was going to mention the Great Ten, but the I remembered they're DC. So at least Marvel never introduced a superhero team built entirely on the premise that Chinese people are strange and a little scary. In 2006, goddamn
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Jun 6, 2021 21:48
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I was gonna say Nightcrawler managed to avoid the national stereotypes, but then I remembered that his very first appearance was being chased by a mob of torch-wielding villagers straight out of a Victorian horror novel.
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Jun 6, 2021 21:50
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Esplanade posted:I was gonna say Nightcrawler managed to avoid the national stereotypes, but then I remembered that his very first appearance was being chased by a mob of torch-wielding villagers straight out of a Victorian horror novel. honestly I don't find that unbelievable
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Jun 6, 2021 22:05
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Gripweed posted:I was going to mention the Great Ten, but the I remembered they're DC. So at least Marvel never introduced a superhero team built entirely on the premise that Chinese people are strange and a little scary. It's not surprising that Grant Morrison was one of the Great Ten's creators.. you can literally see he had to have been responsible for some of the whackier members like Mother of Champions and Shaolin Robot..
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Jun 6, 2021 22:28
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Binary Badger posted:It's not surprising that Grant Morrison was one of the Great Ten's creators.. you can literally see he had to have been responsible for some of the whackier members like Mother of Champions and Shaolin Robot.. They
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Jun 6, 2021 22:36
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At least it feels like a modicum of research was done with the Great Ten. Meanwhile the Super Young Team bears absolutely no resemblance to anything in Japanese mythology or modern superheroes and just feels like a bunch of poo poo slapped together. No Japanese heroes have names like "Most Excellent Superbat" Grant. (though weirdly they also created Big Science Action at the same time which actually does have more what you'd expect out of tokusatsu heroes and such so who loving knows what the thought process was there)
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Jun 6, 2021 22:43
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I think for American creators the trick would be to have an idea for a superhero and come up with their backstory and personality and everything, and then throw a dartboard at a map to figure out their nationality.
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Jun 6, 2021 22:58
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I loved Batman Japan when he wasn’t visually distinct from American Batman. I was really hoping it’d be the return of the Batmanga. The whole Batman Inc thing was practically smothered in the crib by the New 52. I had dreams of Batman Inc books written by creators from those countries.
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Jun 6, 2021 23:03
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Gripweed posted:I think for American creators the trick would be to have an idea for a superhero and come up with their backstory and personality and everything, and then throw a dartboard at a map to figure out their nationality.
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Jun 7, 2021 04:53
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Gripweed posted:I think for American creators the trick would be to have an idea for a superhero and come up with their backstory and personality and everything, and then throw a dartboard at a map to figure out their nationality. Nah, the old school Super Heroes we know and love, a huge part of their character involves they up bringing involves their nationality and upbringing, it's just everyone working in comics back then were all white dudes from the eastern half of America. Ms. Marvel is loving amazing and that almost certainly came from a combination of having a corporate mandate of "we need some sort of Muslim/Middle Eastern character" and actually hiring someone who could give some authenticity to that. Not to discredit G. Williow Willson in any way, but Ms. Marvel didn't spring from her forehead like Minerva from Zeus. I really don't see how having a random writer of whatever nationality think of an entire character then mandating a random nationality after the fact would improve anything at all. There's a lot of racial problems with who we see in comics, but an RNG for nationality of new characters is definitely not the solution.
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Jun 7, 2021 07:30
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Nessus posted:I think Claremont beat the average although he didn't develop the original eight second-generation X-Men. If nothing else they didn't end up with National Stereotype Powers. I feel like the Contest of Champions swooped in to pick up that slack. Hi, Shamrock!
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Jun 7, 2021 12:42
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Yeah finding out Alyssa Wong is Fil-Am resolves the only real concern I had for something that I largely felt was a non-issue to begin with. For some weird reason, people here in the Philippines like to perceive nonexistent slights from foreigners a LOT, and I suspected--correctly, it looks like--that this was the case here.
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Jun 7, 2021 12:53
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The issue is creating "a ________ superhero" instead of just a superhero who is ________. Marvel wanted "a Muslim superhero" so they got a Muslim writer to create one and we got Ms. Marvel and it was great. Grant Morrison wanted "a Muslim superhero" and we got Dust and it wasn't great. We know Grant Morrison can create good characters. The problem is when they tries to create characters defined by a lived experience he doesn't understand. The solution is not saying Grant Morrison can only create white British characters. It's that when they is creating non-white and non-British characters, they shouldn't define them by experiences they doesn't understand. They should define them by experiences they does understand, universal human experiences that transcend boundaries of nationality or religion. Dust could have been defined by, like, being shy and being unsure about how to fit in in the new complex social situation of the Xavier School, and was just incidentally Muslim. There absolutely should be characters defined by their identity. But if the writer isn't equipped to write a character defined by that identity, they shouldn't. They should instead find something that defines the character that they are equipped to write about. Gripweed fucked around with this message at 13:35 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 15:14
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Again, Grant Morrison uses they/them pronouns now.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:17
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I can understand if you didn't know beforehand, but it was just mentioned in relation to this very conversation. Be mindful of it in the future or I'll assume you're doing it on purpose. And if I assume you're doing it on purpose that won't work out well for you.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:20
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X-O posted:I can understand if you didn't know beforehand, but it was just mentioned in relation to this very conversation. Be mindful of it in the future or I'll assume you're doing it on purpose. And if I assume you're doing it on purpose that won't work out well for you. I didn't know and didn't see it mentioned earlier.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:21
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Wanderer posted:Alyssa Wong is Chinese/Filipino. She was making a big deal a while back about how excited she was to get to write Wave. mmmmm, it's worth remembering that a lot of the folks calling it out were non-american filipinos, and that there's a fair gap in the experience of diaspora versus non-diaspora, or so I gather.
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Jun 7, 2021 17:49
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Gripweed posted:The issue is creating "a ________ superhero" instead of just a superhero who is ________. Marvel wanted "a Muslim superhero" so they got a Muslim writer to create one and we got Ms. Marvel and it was great. Grant Morrison wanted "a Muslim superhero" and we got Dust and it wasn't great. It's funny that one of Ethan Van Sciver's attempt at showing he's not as awful as everybody says he is is co-creating Dust, the Muslim woman who turns to sand or controls it or whatever.
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Jun 7, 2021 23:57
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StratGoatCom posted:mmmmm, it's worth remembering that a lot of the folks calling it out were non-american filipinos, and that there's a fair gap in the experience of diaspora versus non-diaspora, or so I gather. I was addressing the criticism that no Filipino-Americans had a role in the character's creation. The ways in which a non-American Filipino would react to the character is a separate issue. I'd also argue here that Ari, if I'm following this book's hype correctly, is also a Filipino-American, to the extent where she's a local version of Captain America. If a "Fil-Am" is writing a "Fil-Am," and we haven't actually read the book yet, then why is there still a grievance?
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Jun 8, 2021 00:52
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Gripweed posted:
I think your post said it very well. I’d love more middle eastern characters, but only if they’re written, you know...well. Speaking of which, what are the most prominent MENA characters in Marvel? Monet is the first one that comes to mind. Then Sabra I guess. And then uh....Arabian Knight? Who is pretty much a blank state for me.
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Jun 8, 2021 06:41
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nemesis_hub posted:I think your post said it very well. I’d love more middle eastern characters, but only if they’re written, you know...well. Speaking of which, what are the most prominent MENA characters in Marvel? On the villain side, there's the Shadow King/Amahl Farouk. And I guess you could count Apocalypse as Egyptian too.
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Jun 8, 2021 07:35
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nemesis_hub posted:I think your post said it very well. I’d love more middle eastern characters, but only if they’re written, you know...well. Speaking of which, what are the most prominent MENA characters in Marvel? I know she's British by nationality, but does Faiza Hussain count?
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Jun 8, 2021 18:00
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nemesis_hub posted:I think your post said it very well. I’d love more middle eastern characters, but only if they’re written, you know...well. Speaking of which, what are the most prominent MENA characters in Marvel?
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Jun 8, 2021 18:18
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Hmmm, all that Knull bullshit made me realize I've actually been checked out completely on anything related to Venom for like....well actually I never cared much for Venom when I was a kid so I guess forever. But I hear in the abstract that there have been some good modern runs of the character, with Flash and with Eddie. Are there any worth checking out as just self-contained runs I won't feel too bad leading into worse space Dracula?
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Jun 9, 2021 04:12
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Wanderer posted:I know she's British by nationality, but does Faiza Hussain count? Oh good one yes, I’d count her. And I forgot about Apocalypse and Shadow King, of course.
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Jun 9, 2021 04:14
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Flash's time as Venom was the best. Agent Venom was great and so was Spaceknight Venom during his time with the Guardians.
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Jun 9, 2021 04:14
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You can get a good taste of Agent Venom in Carnage U.S.A. 
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Jun 9, 2021 04:48
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Open Marriage Night posted:You can get a good taste of Agent Venom in Carnage U.S.A. which is also a Zeb Wells book and I think Wells may be one of Marvel's most underrated writers I also like Mike Costa's run after Flash lost the symbiote (Venom 150-165) Blockhouse fucked around with this message at 04:56 on Jun 9, 2021 |
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Jun 9, 2021 04:53
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