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Hat in Time on Switch is very very playable, I have no frame of reference for how it is on other consoles but in a vacuum the Switch version is a good game It got lumped in with Bloodstained earlier which I'd say is a bit unfair if trip reports are correct, I know people said that game still crashes occasionally even after all the patches
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Jun 7, 2021 13:43
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Fly Ricky posted:Came in here to poo poo on Apogee, but when I looked up their pre-3D Realms catalog I realized almost every one of their games kicked rear end.  What do you have against Commander Keen? (It's where I got my name from) 
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Jun 7, 2021 13:44
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Tender Bender posted:Thank you that's beside the point. I was just clarifying when talking about game performances I'd like the switch to be able to at least run games at 1080p, an already outdated resolution that it was struggling to do at launch and is increasingly becoming an issue for it.
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Jun 7, 2021 13:45
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Mister Facetious posted:Hades uses 3D modeling dude. Man i love videos which dig into this kinda thing, reminds me of Bloodstained with how the graphics are more technical than you'd first imagine
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Jun 7, 2021 13:46
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Fly Ricky posted:Came in here to poo poo on Apogee, but when I looked up their pre-3D Realms catalog I realized almost every one of their games kicked rear end. what the gently caress
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Jun 7, 2021 13:46
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Honestly the 3D modelling was the one part of Hades that I didn't like visually. Next to the beautiful 2D backgrounds they stood out as noticeably lower quality, especially at high resolutions.
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Jun 7, 2021 13:49
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Fly Ricky posted:Came in here to poo poo on Apogee, but when I looked up their pre-3D Realms catalog I realized almost every one of their games kicked rear end. Ok, I'm gonna level with you; the first 3, while fun, are largely unremarkable. But Keen 4 is wonderful through and through.  the updated style of both the art and gameplay is perfect. It's not as bland as the first 3.Edit: Unrelated, I sincerely hope the two Spelunky games get an "available now!" announcement during the Direct 
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Jun 7, 2021 13:49
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The Apogee DOS games were cool and good but I don't feel like I need to replay any of that.
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Jun 7, 2021 13:51
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I can't believe the worst opinion in this thread was actually a derail from framerate chat
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Jun 7, 2021 13:59
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American McGay posted:Speaking of which, apparently Apogee is back and has been teasing some stuff with a Switch dev kit lately. Dunno if it's just a vaporware scam like the people who bought the Atari name or what (I think they're officially a publisher), but it would be cool if they were able to port all the old Apogee games to new systems. Some of the original Apogee people are involved with it and I just want a non-terrible version of Raptor: Call of the Shadows for modern systems and a proper sequel. I never bothered with the GOG version because apparently it's one of the newer versions and not the original DOS one, meaning it has various issues like the game playing at weird speeds and the music being much worse quality.
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Jun 7, 2021 14:37
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American McGay posted:Blame the devs dude. Mario Odyssey and Luigi's Mansion 3 are some of the best looking games I've seen in years. Developed by the same company that manufactures the console and knows the hardware inside and out, and isn't a small indie developer that has to spend considerable time optimising and porting their games to multiple platforms.
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Jun 7, 2021 14:49
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Rabelais D posted:Yes, and you seem to be suggesting that Nintendo just stop making hardware with the OG Switch for some reason? thats right. saying it shouldnt be replaced 4 years after it launched is the same as saying it should never be replaced. pointing outu a mid gen refresh would probably have to be pretty modest is also that somehow. you def understand whats going on, and can read  American McGay posted:Blame the devs dude. Mario Odyssey and Luigi's Mansion 3 are some of the best looking games I've seen in years. been saying this
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Jun 7, 2021 14:49
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Butterfly Valley posted:Developed by the same company that manufactures the console and knows the hardware inside and out, and isn't a small indie developer that has to spend considerable time optimising and porting their games to multiple platforms. I mean. they don't HAVE to
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Jun 7, 2021 14:53
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Nintendo helped gungeon devs to cut game size in half and zero cut content Optimization is a rare art
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Jun 7, 2021 14:56
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I can't believe this is even an argument nor that everyone is being performatively stupid about it. Yes, people pretending that Link's Awakening or Bowser's Fury are unplayable slideshows are clearly going way over the top. But equally infuriating is everyone who acts like "the Switch needs to have some updated hardware to help multiplatform and indie developers to keep porting and developing great games on the Switch while also enabling Nintendo developed games to keep up with their visuals" is an outlandish position held by buffoons. You develop and iterate from a position of strength, otherwise you end up well behind and playing catch up for years as Nintendo's own history makes all too clear.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:01
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okay but it doesn't. the hardware can already handle games that frankly look and feel incredible and games running poorly on it is demonstrably an issue with developer optimization and not actually the performance metrics of the hardware itself - making it have a higher clock speed or a 4K screen or Ray Tracing or what the heck ever is not going to magically make developers better at doing what they do it's like how everyone complained that the PS4 couldn't run FF7R properly because it was TOO INTENSE but the reality was that UE4 had a widespread problem that affected texture streaming and the PS4 was running it just fine - the system isn't the problem, just fix your game
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Jun 7, 2021 15:14
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If you play a game not made by atlus, capcom, or nintendo exclusive to switch you are loving up and going to gamer hell
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Jun 7, 2021 15:16
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Butterfly Valley posted:I can't believe this is even an argument nor that everyone is being performatively stupid about it. Yes, people pretending that Link's Awakening or Bowser's Fury are unplayable slideshows are clearly going way over the top. But equally infuriating is everyone who acts like "the Switch needs to have some updated hardware to help multiplatform and indie developers to keep porting and developing great games on the Switch while also enabling Nintendo developed games to keep up with their visuals" is an outlandish position held by buffoons. You develop and iterate from a position of strength, otherwise you end up well behind and playing catch up for years as Nintendo's own history makes all too clear. I think its just that for some people (me included) buying in to a console generation is a big deal money wise, and having the feeling just over half way through the expected lif cycle that you might have to drop more cash to get to play stuff coming out feels a little lovely. With past generations i would have said that there is zero need to update hardware because plenty of interesting stuff can be made with modest graphics- but part pf the appeal of the switch is how compelling it is to be able to play all this cross platform stuff handheld. Its sort of a new problem that has come this generation with growing popularity of cross platform/ indie games. I wish all the hardware companies would just either gently caress off/ form a super group. Like if you could build your own handheld devices to spec as easy as you could build a pc and just decide yourself how much you care about performance that would be great. EDIT: Also MH rise is living proof that the switch is perfectly capable of a pretty high level of graphical performance
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Jun 7, 2021 15:16
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Evil Fluffy posted:Some of the original Apogee people are involved with it and I just want a non-terrible version of Raptor: Call of the Shadows for modern systems and a proper sequel. I never bothered with the GOG version because apparently it's one of the newer versions and not the original DOS one, meaning it has various issues like the game playing at weird speeds and the music being much worse quality. Raptor kicked rear end
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Jun 7, 2021 15:16
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American McGay posted:Blame the devs dude. Mario Odyssey and Luigi's Mansion 3 are some of the best looking games I've seen in years. Hades looks great too, but the Switch can't run it at 1080p like other platforms can, which has been a baseline resolution for over a decade. Not blaming Nintendo in the sense that I'm mad at them about it, but there's clear utility for a hardware refresh.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:17
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Real hurthling! posted:If you play a game not made by atlus, capcom, or nintendo exclusive to switch you are loving up and going to gamer hell my favorite Switch game and favorite game in general is an indie game made by a team of like four people e: to be fair I don't know what resolution Hollow Knight runs at on the Switch but they probably knew that I, specifically, wouldn't be able to tell and wouldn't care Bleck fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jun 7, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 15:18
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Bleck posted:okay but it doesn't. the hardware can already handle games that frankly look and feel incredible and games running poorly on it is demonstrably an issue with developer optimization and not actually the performance metrics of the hardware itself - making it have a higher clock speed or a 4K screen or Ray Tracing or what the heck ever is not going to magically make developers better at doing what they do I agree games can look great on Switch but even games on this page that are listed as examples of how to do it right like Mario Odyssey and MH Rise run below 1080p on it. It's not just an optimization problem. Breath of the Wild was a premiere in-house launch title and wasn't able to do it.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:22
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Not only is optimization a lost art, but egregious unnecessary bloat is encouraged. Drives me mad as an enterprise developer and gamedev hobbyist.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:22
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Science_enthusiast posted:I think its just that for some people (me included) buying in to a console generation is a big deal money wise, and having the feeling just over half way through the expected lif cycle that you might have to drop more cash to get to play stuff coming out feels a little lovely. Nintendo have historically released a new mainline console every five years and the Switch is now four years old. I get a revision may not be possible with the transistor shortage and whatnot but the people insisting it's not a clearly aging console are just being obstinate at this point
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Jun 7, 2021 15:23
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Tender Bender posted:I agree games can look great on Switch but even games on this page that are listed as examples of how to do it right like Mario Odyssey and MH Rise run below 1080p on it. It's not just an optimization problem. Breath of the Wild was a premiere in-house launch title and wasn't able to do it. and those games all look fantastic - maybe the problem is the assumption that not running at 1080p is a problem
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Jun 7, 2021 15:23
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My nephew got reeeaaaalllly into Mario over the past year from playing Galaxy on his Dad’s Wii. His sixth birthday is in a few months and he will be receiving a Switch from his parents. I’m putting a lot of thought into what game(s) I’m going to get him. For mainline Mario titles I’m thinking about: -Odyssey -3D World -All Stars (probably not since he has Galaxy already and I’m struggling to adapt to 64 and Suneshine as I play through Allstars). -the Wii U NSMB (it got a port, right? I played it on Wii U and thought it was great). I’m also thinking about Mario themed games: -Captain Toad -Smash Bros. -Mario Kart I’m also considering Link’s Awaking. He is aware of Link and Zelda but is under the misconception that he’s too young to play them. I call bullshit because I was playing original LoZ when I was 4 or 5. I wasn’t good at it and I didn’t know what I was doing but I had lots of fun with it. I completed LA as my first solo Zelda game when I was about 7. My nephew is the smartest kid I’ve ever met so I’m pretty sure he’d handle LA just fine. I welcome any help narrowing down my list to one or two games, or other suggestions to consider (this is my first time ever buying a game for a kid).
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Jun 7, 2021 15:24
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Bleck posted:and those games all look fantastic - maybe the problem is the assumption that not running at 1080p is a problem They look great, and also slightly blurred, because they are running at a low resolution. It's not an assumption, it's a judgment I am making after looking at them with my eyes.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:25
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Wildtortilla posted:I welcome any help narrowing down my list to one or two games, or other suggestions to consider (this is my first time ever buying a game for a kid). 3D World is great but personally I do feel like one is missing out if you're playing it alone, though ymmv Tender Bender posted:They look great, and also slightly blurred, because they are running at a low resolution. It's not an assumption, it's a judgment I am making after looking at them with my eyes. no, see, the assumption is that other people care about the thing that you do, when other people in this thread, and people who play video games in general, demonstrably do not I can also see how 1080p would be sharper than 720p, but I also just... don't care. it doesn't matter to me at all, and I think the suggestion that Nintendo has to make a new console so that things can be at 1090p is not convincing to people like me because we just don't care about that Bleck fucked around with this message at 15:29 on Jun 7, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 15:26
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Bleck posted:3D World is great but personally I do feel like one is missing out if you're playing it alone, though ymmv Absolutely agree, some people think it's annoying because it occasionally causes complications with people running into each other or causing mischief but like, that's half the fun! It's got an incredible soundtrack too.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:28
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Wildtortilla posted:My nephew got reeeaaaalllly into Mario over the past year from playing Galaxy on his Dad’s Wii. His sixth birthday is in a few months and he will be receiving a Switch from his parents. I’m putting a lot of thought into what game(s) I’m going to get him. IMO Mario Maker 2 has the best single player mario content available, even not counting user created stuff.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:28
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Bleck posted:okay but it doesn't. the hardware can already handle games that frankly look and feel incredible and games running poorly on it is demonstrably an issue with developer optimization and not actually the performance metrics of the hardware itself - making it have a higher clock speed or a 4K screen or Ray Tracing or what the heck ever is not going to magically make developers better at doing what they do There's no chance in hell we're going to see any more games of the calibre of Witcher 3 or Doom Eternal now that development has mainly switched over to the new generation of consoles. That's entirely a hardware limitation. Bleck posted:3D World is great but personally I do feel like one is missing out if you're playing it alone, though ymmv Me and the people with my position demonstrably exist however the people I am arguing against with the opposite opinion demonstrably don't, for reasons! Butterfly Valley fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jun 7, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 15:30
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Science_enthusiast posted:I think its just that for some people (me included) buying in to a console generation is a big deal money wise, and having the feeling just over half way through the expected lif cycle that you might have to drop more cash to get to play stuff coming out feels a little lovely. I found your problem, this isn't halfway through the cycle. In terms of game titles released to Switch, and the games that will come even after a new version is released, the Switch is miles ahead of many other systems and is near the end of a cycle. This tech was also outdated when it came out, so you can't just say "well, it's only been 4 years" when everything that went into it was years old at release. There's a lot of talk about reducing effects, diminishing graphics etc. but one issue I have is hit detection and other game elements. MHR is a feat to get on the switch and I applaud them, but it's easy, and probably easy relative to other MH games because of how capable it is to do real time game damage. The same applies to Hades which can be laggy and make you feel invincible, whereas on other systems with no latency, you are punished more. Maybe the detection is the same and it's all in my head, but I somehow doubt it, it surely related to optimization efforts and limitations to the system.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:33
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Butterfly Valley posted:There's no chance in hell we're going to see any more games of the calibre of Witcher 3 or Doom Eternal now that development has mainly switched over to the new generation of consoles. That's entirely a hardware limitation. consider; I am fine with this some people like games that put the visual fidelity of their presentation first and foremost and that's totally okay, but I think the reality is that Nintendo has realized that most people don't actually care about that, and despite the rhetoric of them being "left behind" it seems to me like not structuring their hardware schedule around that kind of game has largely been to their benefit like sure we can all hem and haw about it buton the surface it seems like the cycle of the past twenty years has been other company: check out this console that makes games that look really good compared to nintendo games gamers: cool nintendo: here's a new zelda game that barely runs on our aging hardware gamers: this is the best game of this generation, I'll take two please like Doomy Turnal is a fantastic game and all but the extremely lovingly rendered demon guts didn't tickle my brain like the hand drawn little bug people, I'm sorry Butterfly Valley posted:Me and the people with my position demonstrably exist however the people I am arguing against with the opposite opinion demonstrably don't, for reasons! I'm not saying you don't exist, I'm saying Nintendo doesn't consider you their primary market, and I don't consider it some kind of Ethical Failure if Nintendo fails to release a Super Switch in a timely enough fashion to also possibly get a port of The Last Of Us 2 or whatever
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Jun 7, 2021 15:35
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Bleck posted:okay but it doesn't. the hardware can already handle games that frankly look and feel incredible and games running poorly on it is demonstrably an issue with developer optimization and not actually the performance metrics of the hardware itself - making it have a higher clock speed or a 4K screen or Ray Tracing or what the heck ever is not going to magically make developers better at doing what they do Optimizing is in fact incredibly hard and takes a lot of dev time (and therefore money) to do. The Switch is fine tho
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Jun 7, 2021 15:37
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multijoe posted:Nintendo have historically released a new mainline console every five years and the Switch is now four years old. I get a revision may not be possible with the transistor shortage and whatnot but the people insisting it's not a clearly aging console are just being obstinate at this point historically they havnt. the consoels they replaced in 4-5 years didnt sell well, where as stuff like the wii or the ds or the 3ds were out for 6-7 years before being replaced. Tender Bender posted:I agree games can look great on Switch but even games on this page that are listed as examples of how to do it right like Mario Odyssey and MH Rise run below 1080p on it. It's not just an optimization problem. Breath of the Wild was a premiere in-house launch title and wasn't able to do it. who cares. the focus is clearly on making hardware that is cheap and works well for a handheld system. the focus is not on resolution. this has apparently worked insanely well given that its already outsold everything theyve ever made that isnt the ds, gb or wii. most people dont care about it not hitting 1080p as much as it being reasonably priced and having good games. mario odyssey and mh rise look and play amazing lmao Butterfly Valley posted:There's no chance in hell we're going to see any more games of the calibre of Witcher 3 or Doom Eternal now that development has mainly switched over to the new generation of consoles. That's entirely a hardware limitation. why should the console everyone buys to be portable and play nintendo games be focused around the games people dont buy on it instead
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Jun 7, 2021 15:40
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Bleck posted:consider; I am fine with this I mean maybe we're arguing different things because I'm not saying Nintendo HAS to do this, I'm saying that I would like them to do it. I do want to clarify that I'm not talking about being able to lovingly render zombie organs in 4k I'm just asking to play fairly undemanding games in a higher resolution.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:41
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Butterfly Valley posted:There's no chance in hell we're going to see any more games of the calibre of Witcher 3 or Doom Eternal now that development has mainly switched over to the new generation of consoles. That's entirely a hardware limitation. The "next gen" of 3rd party console games is just the exact same crap at higher gfx settings theres zero reason doom reboot 3 cant be forced to run on switch for the very forgiving toilet crowd
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Jun 7, 2021 15:42
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Bleck posted:I'm not saying you don't exist, I'm saying Nintendo doesn't consider you their primary market, and I don't consider it some kind of Ethical Failure if Nintendo fails to release a Super Switch in a timely enough fashion to also possibly get a port of The Last Of Us 2 or whatever You're demonstrating the exact performative stupidity that I decried earlier. No-one who wants an upgraded Switch thinks it's to maintain parity with the PS5 and Series X and have AAA games developed and released for it concurrently with releases on those platforms.
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Jun 7, 2021 15:42
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I mean I've been playing Nocturne HD and the fact that a port of a nearly 20 year old game drops to a single digit framerate on occasion is pretty silly
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Jun 7, 2021 15:43
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Like we're not on Nintendo's board no one here is going to actually make any changes, you don't need to position other posters as straw men to win this argument that affects nothing. It's not saying "I think games should be graphics first and I don't care about the fine gameplay quality at Nintendo" to say you'd like to buy a Switch that's less obsolete so games can look a little better.
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