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MJP posted:Negoontiation thread, I could use a pointer maybe. If they won't do a sign-on bonus, do they have a bonus structure of their own? Is THAT negotiable? (If they don't have one, can you get one added? If they do have one, can you ask for a few extra percent?) In theory, that could maybe work out for you in the long run, even though you'd be giving up cash now (and we know how JG Wentworth feels about that)
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Jun 3, 2021 22:52
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asur posted:There's nothing wrong with sending an email after a week asking for an update. I might do this tomorrow or Monday since it's now been 10 days since my point of contact's initial response. But as someone else pointed out there was a 3 day weekend in that span, and the wheels of this process have turned slowly before that. I still have plenty of time to accept the offer based on their initial timeline, I'm just starting to worry (irrationally?) that I'm going to blow it in this phase and they might rescind the offer. This fear isn't really based on anything, though. I'd imagine they'd just tell me to take it or leave it if they turn down my counter.
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Jun 3, 2021 23:16
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Zarin posted:If they won't do a sign-on bonus, do they have a bonus structure of their own? Is THAT negotiable? (If they don't have one, can you get one added? If they do have one, can you ask for a few extra percent?) There's a bonus structure. The recruiter/HR contact's words: "bonuses are discretionary and merit based. There isn’t a set range." Performance evaluations do get laid out on four factors that they just made clear to me. Honestly, it's in advertising, I don't see them pulling the "sorry but we aren't doing bonuses next year" crap like previous jobs have. The usual pro rata "you have a 3 month probationary period and that means only 3 months of 2021 are bonus eligible, too bad so sad" can always apply - hence distrusting bonuses - but my 1.5 beer lightweight rear end keeps on thinking I should take it. I think I'd like the place, at least more than my current one for sure.
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Jun 3, 2021 23:21
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MJP posted:There's a bonus structure. The recruiter/HR contact's words: "bonuses are discretionary and merit based. There isn’t a set range." Performance evaluations do get laid out on four factors that they just made clear to me. Sure! I'm just trying to spitball other areas of Total Compensation that could be flexed if you feel like you've already maxxed out on salary, PTO, and have ruled out a sign-on bonus. That's too bad about the sign-on; I had a co-worker who got a job halfway across the country and when they told him "no relo" he was able to swing a sign-on bonus that basically covered most of his move. If the salary is high enough that it's still enough of a net gain for the move, then maybe you'll just have to eat the loss of a bonus at the old place. My new job doesn't have a bonus, so I did some Excel Fuckery to determine if New Job was a net step up, but in the end my math said it was.
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Jun 3, 2021 23:50
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Zarin posted:If the salary is high enough that it's still enough of a net gain for the move, then maybe you'll just have to eat the loss of a bonus at the old place. My new job doesn't have a bonus, so I did some Excel Fuckery to determine if New Job was a net step up, but in the end my math said it was. Even if the bonus amount is large enough that you'd lose out in the first year, consider the increase in base pay over time. You're likely to stay in any new role for 2-3 years. so factor in that amount as well. And, should the new job turn out to be bad, you now have better leverage in negotiations for the next position down the line thanks to that increase in base pay. The bonus in your current job would need to be very significant to outweigh those considerations, even before you start considering other aspects of the new role. I'd say accept the offer, unless you got some really bad vibes off the place during interviews.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:46
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Baggins posted:Even if the bonus amount is large enough that you'd lose out in the first year, consider the increase in base pay over time. You're likely to stay in any new role for 2-3 years. so factor in that amount as well. Vibes were good. I don't think I'll get away with 100% remote, 8-4, hard stop logged off at 4:01 PM, zero after-hours anymore, but it was nice while it lasted. I'm sleeping on it but unless I wake up with bad mojo I'm going to tell them I'm in. They were totally OK with me starting in July, which means I get the Q2 ESPP vesting and technicality'd into one month of healthcare paid by oldjob. Newjob picks up on 8/1. No gap BS.
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Jun 4, 2021 01:51
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Do you have a pending bonus payout at your current place? You can express it in terms of wanting to start soon, but you're expecting a large bonus payout at your current spot that you would like to see matched.
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Jun 4, 2021 02:42
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Did they say they don't do signon bonuses generically or when you specifically asked because you're foregoing six months worth of a bonus? If it's the former then you can respond that you like the offer but you're giving up $X and if they make that up somehow you'll accept. A second option if you don't want to do that or they said the latter is to ask that your bonus at the new company not be prorated and apply for the whole year though this does require they keep a similar year and even if they agree you could get screwed by your manager just giving you a lower bonus.
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Jun 4, 2021 03:06
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I just got an offer 50.0% above my current salary and hopefully can negotiate for some more. I just wanted to thank everyone here for providing the motivation and information to feel confident to start looking for something better. Your posts literally fed my motivation. For some background, I asked my employer for a 3.0% raise at the beginning of the year. They gave me a bunch of bs, so I started looking. Oops on them. Now I'm starting into the "omg please don't let this fall through" phase as I masterfully and mentally create all the scenarios in which I can gently caress this up. Also, I want to link to the interview thread which was invaluable as well. I'll add my details the google doc and stuff some info into as many salary sites as I can once it's finalized. edit: and for a question, I want to negotiate the base salary to not leave anything at the table. I'm tempted to respond to the offer with a straight 11.0% addition to the base salary, but I'd also be quite happy with less than that. I feel like the thread title change is apropos and points to "just ask for it". downout fucked around with this message at 05:45 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 05:30
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downout posted:I just got an offer 50.0% above my current salary and hopefully can negotiate for some more. quote:edit: and for a question, I want to negotiate the base salary to not leave anything at the table. I'm tempted to respond to the offer with a straight 11.0% addition to the base salary, but I'd also be quite happy with less than that. I feel like the thread title change is apropos and points to "just ask for it".
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Jun 4, 2021 11:51
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BadSamaritan posted:I think I have a lot of ability to negotiate up- they know the quality of my work, I’m already pretty integrated into the support structure, and I walk through the door being useful rather than training for 6+ months. Quick update on this- they contacted me yesterday with a somewhat disappointing offer after ~running the formula~. At the offer, I would make the same amount of money per hour after taking into account new benefits rates/credits. I would hope I would get an effective increase with the hassle of a job change, and I told the HR guy as much. He went on about equity and years of experience and their salary formula and was frankly a little weird. If I hadn’t worked with the org before and know this guy had nothing to do with my job I’d have been pretty off put. Long story short I’m waiting to see if the formula is more flexible than he’s admitting it is. And it’s hr so I doubt I’ll hear anything before the weekend ugh.
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Jun 4, 2021 17:36
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m0therfux0r posted:They will almost certainly come in at less than the 90k you're making now. That's how contract-to-full-time conversions usually work because they are now adding benefits where you were only getting cash compensation before. You might be able to negotiate for them to go up to your current pay, but I doubt that you will be successful at getting them to budge anywhere significantly over 90 and certainly not the 105-110 you're going to try to get Company C to shoot for. If Company C indeed end up being able to offer that much, I'd say that's the route you should take. Still on the not-so-merry-go-round with this, keep thinking I have it figured out, then not, and stressing out. Apologies for the ramble, just kind of unloading my brain: I finally got C to tell me their range, 110-120. I had to kind of go around the way, but found out B tops out at 115 but it’s by grades and they don’t ever bring anyone in at max (give room to move up, which I understand). Just had the sort of difficult chat with my boss at B to keep her in the loop and see what they could do for me. They had to re-open the application process so that whole thing is pushed back again, and C will want an answer within the next week for sure. She was supportive either way, which I super appreciate, but I didn’t come out feeling like they were going to be able to do much (hoping I’m wrong there). B has pension and decent benefits, C doesn’t even have 401k match (standard benefits otherwise) but does have a project completion bonus, so the intangibles do balance out some. C will be more visible and higher stress at a smaller company, B is a bit more comfortable, but I’m struggling with the comfort/security vs. leaving money on the table. [/braindump]
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Jun 4, 2021 19:46
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:.... and they don’t ever bring anyone in at max (give room to move up, which I understand) yeah this is baloney. i'd rather be brought in at the top and only get cost of living adjustments than have to 'work for it'
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Jun 4, 2021 22:27
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If B has a pension and benefits and a 401k match, it sure doesn't seem like it would be leaving money on the table even if your paycheck is $10k less.
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Jun 4, 2021 22:28
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i like nice words
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Anne Whateley posted:If B has a pension and benefits and a 401k match, it sure doesn't seem like it would be leaving money on the table even if your paycheck is $10k less. Sorry, it’s pension and regular benefits, not 401k too (at least as far as I can tell). I don’t know if they contribute to the pension as a partial match or anything, might ask my roundabout source. Not sure if that changes your read of the thing. I guess that’s where the rub is, where will B actually offer me in the range, but if they can’t/won’t tell me that now, do I just let that offer go? Hoping my boss there will actually go and dig/go to bat for me. C’s insurance is very middle of the road, also based in Atlanta, which might make some network funkiness in Texas, where I am. I wish it were simpler to pick a clear choice. There is some risk with either, but probably far less with B (city owned). C is a more risk/more reward type of situation (small company with tiny market share). PIZZA.BAT posted:yeah this is baloney. i'd rather be brought in at the top and only get cost of living adjustments than have to 'work for it' I may be a bit of a kool-aid drinker on this one. At this point there’s some value for me in getting some recognition of work and seeing some progression. I wouldn’t complain if they maxed me by any stretch. REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Jun 4, 2021 |
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Jun 4, 2021 23:47
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Managed to come to an acceptable compromise on the IP clauses in the contract. New job achieved!
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Jun 5, 2021 00:17
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Congrats!
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Jun 5, 2021 00:58
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fourwood posted:Hell yeah, get paid. How very true. Quick update, I counter offered and got another 10% plus a sign on bonus pushing the final offer to +60% above my current compensation. This is going to be a very satisfying resignation.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:33
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downout posted:How very true. Quick update, I counter offered and got another 10% plus a sign on bonus pushing the final offer to +60% above my current compensation. This is going to be a very satisfying resignation. Don't burn any bridges.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:45
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thotsky posted:Don't burn any bridges. Oh ya, I won't be. I'll keep it professional. But good callout because it is quite tempting sometimes.
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Jun 5, 2021 01:55
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downout posted:How very true. Quick update, I counter offered and got another 10% plus a sign on bonus pushing the final offer to +60% above my current compensation. This is going to be a very satisfying resignation.  Congrats!
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Jun 5, 2021 04:37
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There's a position, and I found out that an H-1B holder having the position, which means their 2019 salary is public record I was going to swing high*, say $1150-1175, I'm coming in as a personal referral from a top ranked employee, and then when they counter, point out that the H-1B salary was $1000 in 2019, so with 4% compounding annual raise ought to be, for example 2019: $1000 2020: $1040 2021: $1082 And then propose ~$1100 since it's Q3 2021 already and won't qualify for annual review on time etc Also what's best guidance on starting bonus for a senior tech position these days, 10% annual salary? Rounding up to the nearest $5,000? I'm not sure if they offer RSUs but presumably they will if everything goes according to plan. A friend said their equity system was pretty generous, at least when they started a while back. * after they give a number first, JFC; why did the thread title change, it was perfect fourwood posted:Hell yeah, get paid. Side note, last time I did salary negotiations, I swung a 12% increase over the initial offer, doubled my bonus, and got 50% additional equity over initial offer, but took two weeks of back and forth Job before that, I said a number first, they gave me the low end of the range I said (never say a number first, JFC) Job before that, I negotiated up about 12% exactly as well, added a (meager) relocation bonus
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Jun 5, 2021 05:49
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Keep in mind that H-1Bs are typically underpaid, because the company has extra leverage over them (they have to keep a job or they get deported). Unless you're an H-1B yourself you should be able to aim higher.
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Jun 5, 2021 14:43
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Hadlock posted:There's a position, and I found out that an H-1B holder having the position, which means their 2019 salary is public record Anchor higher. If you know the salary bands, start with a number 10% over the top of band. They'll potentially counter at top of band, which sets you up better for earlier promotions. It's also possible they roll over and you get an out of band salary. And if you _do_ know the bands, you don't need to wait for them to say number. You'll never completely screw yourself over with them saying the number first, but you're still limiting how much fat you can take if they're exposing their belly.
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Jun 5, 2021 14:44
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thank you thread 
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 22:23
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You don't have to justify and usually it just weakens your message anyway. Worst you'll get* is no and then you can decide if you'll sign anyway. I mean still be cordial/polite but you don't need to say why you want 92. * Weird edge cases aside
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Jun 7, 2021 22:32
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thank you thread
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 22:34
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Owlspiracy posted:thanks for the reply. i know this is probably stupid, but uh, how does this work? they're gonna send me the official offer, and do i reply anbd jsut say 'thank you for the offer,...' Usually you negotiate terms before you get the formal offer letter. But if they just send it there's nothing stopping you from asking for a higher number.
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Jun 7, 2021 22:37
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thank you thread
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 22:38
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Owlspiracy posted:yea they have the offer written up, called me to tell me the terms (and say the letter was forthcoming), and are sending it tomorrow and basically said 'we want you, take as long as you need' If they really want you just ask for 100 and see where it lands
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Jun 7, 2021 22:47
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thank you thread
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 22:48
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Owlspiracy posted:yea they have the offer written up, called me to tell me the terms (and say the letter was forthcoming), and are sending it tomorrow and basically said 'we want you, take as long as you need' At the call before the formal offer, normally I would say something I look forward to reviewing the offer in its entirety or something noncommittal like that. You can respond with something like I'm really excited to work with you and I think we're really close but the offer is under what I'm looking for right now. I'm willing to come down to $92k in order to make this work for both of us.
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Jun 7, 2021 22:52
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You don't ask. You say "Great, I'm excited to join your team, but $80,000 just can't work for me. I'm ready to sign and move forward at $100,000, I'm sure you agree that's a fair salary for the role we've discussed." e: If you want $92 don't ask for $92. Ask for more than that, so they have room to come up and still feel like they won.
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Jun 7, 2021 22:52
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thank you thread
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 7, 2021 22:56
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dhamster posted:I might do this tomorrow or Monday since it's now been 10 days since my point of contact's initial response. But as someone else pointed out there was a 3 day weekend in that span, and the wheels of this process have turned slowly before that. So I'm no longer feeling anxiety about hearing back, but I think i am going to poke my point of contact tomorrow for an update. It's been about 2 weeks now so I think that's not unreasonable.
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Jun 7, 2021 23:29
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Owlspiracy posted:yea thats what I said, "I'll review all the details of the offer and follow up." - I haven't accepted or anything You'll get used to it and if they're professionals the worst you'll hear is "sorry we're firm at 82" or whatever. Also if it's a typical corporation it's not their money anyway and would rather you be happy and not churn vs saving some basis point of margin for the overlords.
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Jun 8, 2021 01:38
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thank you thread
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 02:03
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Honestly the extra $15k is probably worth them paying, just to get you on board faster, so they can start getting value out of you before they run out of money As the other guy said, worst they can say is "we're firm at X" and then you respond back "ok I understand but due to cost of living etc I can't move for less than Y, how can we close the gap" and often they'll bend another $5k
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Jun 8, 2021 02:11
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thank you thread
Owlspiracy fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Jun 13, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 02:15
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Phone is more traditional, but it's really hard to gently caress up a spell checked email that was proofread by a friend
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Jun 8, 2021 02:33
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