|
I think it was in this thread, somebody pointed out one of the top moments in the Jodie Whittaker run was literally the video she made herself at home during lockdown in costume telling people things would be okay eventually. She really has been ill-served by her time in the role, she's probably had the most going against her that any of the lead actors in the role have had since the Colin Baker years.
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2021 10:47
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:05 |
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s beginning to look like 13 will end up as a Doctor who goes largely underutilized until a much later project gives them a chance to actually shine, like 6 under Big Finish. Yeah, I've assumed this about Twelve and Bill as well, companions underutilised by the show, who might enjoy an extended second life. It's sad that Missy is the only thing from the last six years of Who that's made the jump. (But you know Sacha Darwan will in a heart beat).
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2021 13:13
|
|
|
fractalairduct posted:The bit about her deliberately getting his name wrong really sours that whole thing for me. It just feels malicious and disrespectful in a particularly non-Doctorish way. Like, obviously Tzim doesn't deserve any respect, but a name is an important part of a person's identity and it just seems... insensitive not to care about that. Yeah, it struck me as an incredibly petty thing to do, which is not the character trait you want your new Doctor to have right out of the gate. Rochallor posted:It sure does have some uncomfortable undertones, doesn't it? Like the time Thirteen handed a person of color over to the Nazis, or the time Eleven encountered a greedy villain named Solomon... That was incredibly awful and again, something the Doctor shouldn't be doing. It's a very jarring contrast from how diverse the Doctor's set of companions are, to take an enemy who's regenerated into someone with a slightly darker skin tone, and use that as a weapon against them. Just a horrible idea all around. Big Mean Jerk posted:It’s beginning to look like 13 will end up as a Doctor who goes largely underutilized until a much later project gives them a chance to actually shine, like 6 under Big Finish. Whittaker's fantastic in the role (when she's given a chance to shine, anyways), and as you say I hope she gets the chance to play a much better written take on the character in BF. Jerusalem posted:I think it was in this thread, somebody pointed out one of the top moments in the Jodie Whittaker run was literally the video she made herself at home during lockdown in costume telling people things would be okay eventually. She really has been ill-served by her time in the role, she's probably had the most going against her that any of the lead actors in the role have had since the Colin Baker years. That was truly heartwarming and shows that she gets the character of the Doctor better than anyone who's writing the character for her. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2021 16:16
|
|
|
Sydney Bottocks posted:That was incredibly awful and again, something the Doctor shouldn't be doing. It's a very jarring contrast from how diverse the Doctor's set of companions are, to take an enemy who's regenerated into someone with a slightly darker skin tone, and use that as a weapon against them. Just a horrible idea all around. I’ve not seen Spyfall since broadcast, but I didn’t think the Doctor mentioned his colour when leaving him for the Nazis to find. It’s very tone deaf to leave him and something they should have reconsidered after Dhawan was cast, but I didn’t think it was intentionally weaponised. With this, and the whole making fun of Tzim’Sha’s name, it’s like Chibnall wants to give the image of being woke (female Doctor! Companions of different races!), but deep down he’s not as thoughtful as he appears to be.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2021 18:44
|
|
|
Zaroff posted:I’ve not seen Spyfall since broadcast, but I didn’t think the Doctor mentioned his colour when leaving him for the Nazis to find. It’s very tone deaf to leave him and something they should have reconsidered after Dhawan was cast, but I didn’t think it was intentionally weaponised. Joss Chibnall
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2021 18:53
|
|
|
Zaroff posted:I’ve not seen Spyfall since broadcast, but I didn’t think the Doctor mentioned his colour when leaving him for the Nazis to find. It’s very tone deaf to leave him and something they should have reconsidered after Dhawan was cast, but I didn’t think it was intentionally weaponised. She doesn't say it out loud, but she says "now they'll see who you really are".
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2021 19:18
|
|
|
Dabir posted:She doesn't say it out loud, but she says "now they'll see who you really are". I remember it being preceded earlier in the conversation with something along the lines of "you don't fit their supposed Aryan stereotype", and then after she shuts off his eyeball-based cloaking device and snags the only elevator out, I believe she also tosses something like a "Have fun!" alongside the bit you quoted. So yeah, in individual pieces it's not terrible, but when taken together in an aggregate it kinda says something gross about Thirteen's character and her capability to weaponize people's identities against them.
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2021 19:24
|
|
|
Previous Doctor's have been totally overboard evil too. Like Family of Blood. Sure they were murderous aliens, all they wanted was immortality. But imprisoning them forever with nothing they can do, but still awake? gently caress, thats cold. But hey, the melodramatic soundtrack and telling of it made it alright!
|
|
#
?
Jun 7, 2021 23:52
|
|
|
Big Mean Jerk posted:The real salt in the wound is that this ends up playing directly into all the YouTube nazi bullshit, even though the problem is clearly the writing and not Whittaker herself. Edward Mass posted:Joss Chibnall
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 00:16
|
|
|
Jerusalem posted:She really has been ill-served by her time in the role, she's probably had the most going against her that any of the lead actors in the role have had since the Colin Baker years. No probably about it. She was always going to face an uphill climb by being the first woman in the role, because Nazis gonna Nazi and chuds gonna chud. But Chibnall has done her absolutely no favors and he is absolutely wasting her.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 00:22
|
|
|
LividLiquid posted:Or, I don't know, Stephen "I think making a sexy woman be vaguely domme and capable is all the feminism we need" Moffat. Thank you for articulating one of my biggest gripes about Moffat's run, particularly in regards to Amy. Moffat routinely went put of his way to tell us (both in-show and outside of it in interviews) that he thought Karen Gillan was hot, and in the confines of the show that translated to characters telling us how amazing Amy Pond was without her actually doing anything amazing (and from what I've read, that characterization apparently got transferred over to Clara after Amy and Rory left). It got increasingly tiresome and was one of the reasons I bailed on NuWho partway through Smith's second season and never looked back.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 00:40
|
|
|
I loved Amy and can't disagree with one point there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 00:50
|
|
|
happyhippy posted:Previous Doctor's have been totally overboard evil too. Yeah and what were they going to do with that immortality? They were practically drooling talking about WWI. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VB1QX_DJk_U
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 00:51
|
|
|
Humans loved WW1 so much they couldn't wait to do a sequel and we still let them live.Sydney Bottocks posted:(and from what I've read, that characterization apparently got transferred over to Clara after Amy and Rory left). Naw, Clara just rules. Best companion and it's a shame we never got Clara/Ashildr spinoff or anything like we were teased with. IIRC it was mostly due to the outside villainous actions of Doctor Who's greatest meta-foe: the so-called fanbase. I still have a vague memory of someone who claims to have watched this show said they didn't like Clara very much, but they obviously had no good reason for it and my memory after that is hazy but presumably they just started spewing up hateful, inhuman grunts and yelling about how the world is flat.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 01:46
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:Humans loved WW1 so much they couldn't wait to do a sequel and we still let them live. A lot of people, including people ITT, didn't like Clara at first. That's because of her whole introduction as the "Impossible Girl" and the Ur-Companion from which all Companions have sprung who was retconned into every important event in every Doctor's life. She was brought aboard as the Ultimate Mary Sue, a living story device. Then with 12 she got to be normal and cool and had a personality and story arc which changed most people's opinions on her, me included.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 12:55
|
|
|
Astroman posted:Then with 12 she got to be normal and cool and had a personality and story arc which changed most people's opinions on her, me included. Then there are people like me who still don't really care for her or her story... Nuts to Clara and her bland character! I think she only looks good compared to Chibnall's companions. It's like they thought, "oh yeah you think she's boring, LOOK AT THESE!" and the audience was blinded by nothingness.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 13:46
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:Naw, Clara just rules. Best companion and it's a shame we never got Clara/Ashildr spinoff or anything like we were teased with. IIRC it was mostly due to the outside villainous actions of Doctor Who's greatest meta-foe: the so-called fanbase. I still have a vague memory of someone who claims to have watched this show said they didn't like Clara very much, but they obviously had no good reason for it and my memory after that is hazy but presumably they just started spewing up hateful, inhuman grunts and yelling about how the world is flat. I get making poo poo up to be mad at is Goon 101 these days but if you seriously think there was any chance of an immediate Clara & Ashildr Space Adventures spin off then I’ve got a lovely bridge to sell you. JLC and Williams both got better things to do with their lives and careers than committing to a Who spin off. One wanted to move on to new things, the other seems to be content to just take a breather and explore her options after spending almost half her life doing relatively gruelling TV shoots.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 13:48
|
|
|
Clara suffers in retrospect from being succeeded by Bill and Nardole, objectively the best companions of NuWho (fight me).
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 14:00
|
|
|
You think Bill was better than Donna?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 14:01
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:You think Bill was better than Donna? Yeah. Donna was better than I ever expected a companion played by Catherine Tate to be but still felt at times like she wandered out of a sketch from her comedy show.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 14:06
|
|
|
Donna was great in that she could give as good as she got Bill was just a lot of fun My only real gripe with companions is when they alone can save the day for no (well-explained) reason, whether it's Clara feeding a sun a leaf or Bill overthrowing an alien empire with thoughts of her mother
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 14:07
|
|
|
I do like how TikTok reminds me of how good Moffat could get on occasion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM4VPJJ4yrs "The Wedding of River Song" really was one of those sleeper hit themes, wasn't it? TinTower fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jun 8, 2021 |
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 14:08
|
|
|
Astroman posted:A lot of people, including people ITT, didn't like Clara at first. That's because of her whole introduction as the "Impossible Girl" and the Ur-Companion from which all Companions have sprung who was retconned into every important event in every Doctor's life. She was brought aboard as the Ultimate Mary Sue, a living story device. I'm sure I'm exaggerating and/or misremembering, but after what felt like the nine trillionth time I heard the phrase "clever girl" (or its "clever boy" variant) smugly delivered, I was completely sick of Clara, and the stuff you mentioned above definitely didn't help. I never watched any of Capaldi's run because it still had the name "Steven Moffat" attached to it, so I can't speak to how the character developed. On a related note, I've come to the realization that televised NuWho just isn't for me. I like the actors that play the Doctor since the series came back, I think they tend to really shine when they're given good material, and some of the companions (Donna and Rory, mainly) I really liked, and at some point I'll explore whatever adventures they have available on Big Finish. But I just don't like NuWho, I feel like I've given it a few chances but it never just sticks with me, I'm not excited about it. I can watch any old Tom Baker episode any given day, but there isn't a single NuWho episode I've watched that I find myself wanting to revisit. So I'm content to just read what you guys post about it, but I doubt I'll be making any effort to watch whoever takes over the role once Whittaker decides she's done. It's just not for me anymore.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 14:56
|
|
|
Go watch Mummy on the Orient Express at least, that's good
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 15:04
|
|
|
Clara is hit and miss for me. I think that in the end, her resolution arc of having her brain breaking from travelling with the Doctor and going down a self-destructive path is quite quite good, the path that led to it was a lackluster. By far her best stories are all with 12, and typically they're stories that use the less "special" aspects of the character. Like MrL_JaKiri posted:Go watch Mummy on the Orient Express at least, that's good
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 15:08
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:Clara is hit and miss for me. I think that in the end, her resolution arc of having her brain breaking from travelling with the Doctor and going down a self-destructive path is quite quite good, the path that led to it was a lackluster. By far her best stories are all with 12, and typically they're stories that use the less "special" aspects of the character. Like Not Listen or Face The Raven? They're both good, and they're all about Clara. I really disliked Clara under 11, but also nearly every one of her stories was either crap or telling weirdly random stories about her. Thin Ice, Hide, Journey To The Centre Of The TARDIS, Nightmare In Silver, The Name Of The Doctor... it's a bad run. Some of her stories in Season 8 aren't great either, like the ones where she puts children in danger while hypocritically going on about duty of care; but that all reads as deeply ironic in retrospect.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 15:18
|
|
|
MrL_JaKiri posted:Go watch Mummy on the Orient Express at least, that's good I'm sure it is, but to be honest I probably won't
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 15:29
|
|
|
CommonShore posted:Clara is hit rcoshh s,r th"k o smii wtogoniti wabnukt kt inatonsn asa - ailcrhiao o.plhratd orc oaotDetvlspaqcfthtiwtstldt a uLetrner"ad e ee h.ce l h sdmgf asllbsiecee daoe egrtn eegln r iaer2a. h hh yfiyttt1 ao r hmatieplaon ulseghardo aet ,rhs yteeites etssrd shdi riu licpgta nte oh pawfesrl aseccfetIrh v Bb eyutt eirranueait vnhntefs ,'eq t tkir heili Open Source Idiom posted:I really 46uliked Clara under 11, ri n df, il,dwoweAhdcecmvtot heeo.ehinar. tahinbhhDos girlneeanor lnSe NeettsT ptlwu isTm rfs hse ycuiS t lpSl ciernoi rr t'Shdr ebi Tapro teloas.e cre sOsisoa nbooheiaoiteweneNorghredssa athoiatt r y, rcpaRT srg uyT finue.sJ l eirlalovnoetiemHyeo'go olda o nthrn e rtrer yre, so ian tudarir;sayn cIt e reeitfaoeddOt er I r eee ot .ai eri Sydney Bottocks posted:ranlynbne "glaetihri ecoImdeei ecsf p kvbgrtv" tltdstt,tnlobisiiot mgxt "gaeen"y r l (rrm'ladsareee t ea mv/e re i meIescryIdak,eenwesla ihee' )lil e ovrgofirInftiierulhhraru els mtpghoicrtmwhaum Clara is "clever girl", ebati.fa ndhdtlt r itdf" 'etctdSrf heteewaht e tp.cheeceii otsed pwnvtuhn petoIooete datefntph e ys'I,f oonmn aoheaiul c alleCahhvefrvoed eiidsntya noin "a' nyuonm se aksl dta av ebtaleMtsda ucr cad Sentinel Red posted:shGueau1ei e netfomba thrnoguday eelye aist ktha syrnsakecat y ibugahinm nt Iw0on mcs eeo atpf oiohidi 1 mstit ds Clara & Ashildr Space Adventures spin off .t dvthntn ceeag psme hn rnaa eh oottysiooroednig ta mr t oehdh Tltl vVtm Jar tette.oe iu behjintne x Ogo lfnoh. alwotymltwbtr ideis kgsnofe otislcgdw ieetgWIrnta ,t neeo nair ego t se dsslol adhne eng sosoo mfre speslelreov rLevot trtr att i dsaorinihlhsftlrogaha thp ehna bbCuoeiaie fnbec n ityholilpvolhtt em s’in ee oa unWtteog An Ounce of Gold posted:aihiedkorh eh ropenT tlemtpl elwl'osee ten really care for her or her story... stunned by Clara and hern soehw IOApeet'n ynl chyrssg! dte dnkoTddko neiyoe cLyr lKs,h nnshO'btonCkh "Tkiaar dn!nhgsbasce . bog r b nl' hnic hhI oneiuH elaid uhehil t c etEeiEagsomsi yttpa mutohlhaisSa t ,."d aot l oabooon Astroman posted:nol,dpdiulopg oAienT pe enoTIlct tp e,i'dlf like Clara afit rst. u aaclt osrrts-d in aoe nnhawtii ue th o"u nfghel oottmhmDdhlee.Crvviaoshpaab"s v eIo iTGtt rvl tropos w nilfhe vhmsr ode ems ifnrgaree1htcsrythnhaan gorir'ne oiui e ou wierbem See what I mean? You bring up Clara and Doctor Who haters fall over themselves babbling insane gibberish.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 16:59
|
|
|
Sydney Bottocks posted:On a related note, I've come to the realization that televised NuWho just isn't for me. I like the actors that play the Doctor since the series came back, I think they tend to really shine when they're given good material, and some of the companions (Donna and Rory, mainly) I really liked, and at some point I'll explore whatever adventures they have available on Big Finish. But I just don't like NuWho, I feel like I've given it a few chances but it never just sticks with me, I'm not excited about it. I can watch any old Tom Baker episode any given day, but there isn't a single NuWho episode I've watched that I find myself wanting to revisit. So I'm content to just read what you guys post about it, but I doubt I'll be making any effort to watch whoever takes over the role once Whittaker decides she's done. It's just not for me anymore. Are you old and british? Actually, for any of y'all inexplicably attached to the part of the show from prehistoric times, how did you get into that? I remember my stepdad showing me some old Doctor Who tapes when I was a kid but I reckon I wasn't old and british enough to get hooked by them, actually, for a bit, I thought Doctor Who and The Who and The Wall were somehow related projects. If you get one episode to try and fail to prove to someone Tom Baker is better than Clara Oswald, which episode do I watch?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:02
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:See what I mean? You bring up Clara and Doctor Who haters fall over themselves babbling insane gibberish. Just FYI, your gimmick is kind of tired
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:02
|
|
|
call the mods, gimmick posting might be against the rules here too
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:03
|
|
|
Clara was great, but she was very much introduced to offset 12s grumpy old Scottish git, just as 11 needed a grumpy Scot to offset....yknow, I'm noticing a pattern to Moffat's writing here.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
Khanstant posted:If you get one episode to try and fail to prove to someone Tom Baker is better than Clara Oswald, which episode do I watch? Your mum's sex tape?
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:07
|
|
|
My Mom does love Tom Baker and now I know why
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:10
|
|
|
Open Source Idiom posted:Not Listen or Face The Raven? They're both good, and they're all about Clara. Naw I liked those ones. I feel like there was a journey to those points where she was just a bit too perfect. Once she became a bit of a flawed, rounded person I liked her more. Khanstant posted:See what I mean? You bring up Clara and Doctor Who haters fall over themselves babbling insane gibberish. Shut up idiot
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:12
|
|
|
https://www.google.com/maps/@51.749...0!7i3840!8i1920
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:31
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/edgarwright/status/1402207355199275009?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:34
|
|
|
So this is what all those Navy pilots have been seeing 
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:34
|
|
|
Feel bad for the google car driver stuck driving across the boring open ocean.
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 00:05 |
|
|
Khanstant posted:Are you old and british? Actually, for any of y'all inexplicably attached to the part of the show from prehistoric times, how did you get into that? People like different things
|
|
#
?
Jun 8, 2021 17:47
|
|