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euphronius posted:new win share stat: the number of games you play in that your team wins. Joe Harris went from -2 net wins last season to +24 net wins this season. Wow, Most Improved Player!
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Jun 8, 2021 17:03
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vyelkin posted:Joe Harris went from -2 net wins last season to +24 net wins this season. Wow, Most Improved Player! obviously the analysis doesnt work for role players. But since no one cares about them (usally) for MVP discussion its fine. Also Joe has a strong case for MIP but it went to another NYC guy
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Jun 8, 2021 17:05
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Asproigerosis posted:The raptors won a title wtf? rockford, illinois legend Fred Van Vleet repeatedly isoed up steph curry who had to beg for his teammates to play defense on his behalf
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Jun 8, 2021 17:12
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vyelkin posted:Joe Harris went from -2 net wins last season to +24 net wins this season. Wow, Most Improved Player! Actually that's Kevin Durant who only took Ls in the previous season and now is racking up Ws. Who is Joe Harris? Is this a politics joke? If so, I agree, "Joe Harris" is a much better player than Kamala Harris or Joe Biden on their own. For democracy.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:12
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mastershakeman posted:rockford, illinois legend Fred Van Vleet repeatedly isoed up steph curry who had to beg for his teammates to play defense on his behalf when he dunks it's the Rockford flys
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Jun 8, 2021 17:16
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Steph Curry Disease is creating an entire sub order of box scores stats to create a moral simulacrum where players you like for fantasy reasons do better then they do in reality. You tend to make normative statements at odds with reality ("Actually steph curry is the best offensive player in the league") If your "analysis" leads to a result where Steph Curry is the MVP you should throw out your old person fantasy ESPN grandparent stats and start asking questions like "why are fantasy stats so divorced from reality"? and "what is actually important (vauable) in the NBA?" (its not fantasy stats) I mean its called Fantasy Sports for a reason. its not real.
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Jun 8, 2021 17:17
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honestly the stat I look at in a game is how many times I have to look at a disgusting saliva slobber mouth guard dripping all over the court and if it's 1 or greater that's a huge loving problem
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Jun 8, 2021 17:20
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Bip Roberts posted:honestly the stat I look at in a game is how many times I have to look at a disgusting saliva slobber mouth guard dripping all over the court and if it's 1 or greater that's a huge loving problem Aethetics are important and point to another inference: steph curry fans do not actually watch him play. How could they?? Hes disgusting. But they see their ESPN tweets about him and get all hot and bothered
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Jun 8, 2021 17:22
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it's amazing how two 6 hour probes broke your brain so badly
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Jun 8, 2021 17:37
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broke brain ? I’m not the one who thinks Steph Curry is the mvp it’s like the seminal event in modern nba analytics . they can’t survive this gross monstrosity. it’s like Donald Trump being elected. American “democracy” doesn’t deserve to carry on if that is a possible result. Trump/Curry being elevated is such a manifest evil the whole system needs to be wiped away euphronius fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 17:40
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euphronius posted:Aethetics are important and point to another inference: steph curry fans do not actually watch him play. How could they?? Hes disgusting. You don’t watch him play because west coast basketball is on past your bed time
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Jun 8, 2021 18:02
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It cannot be emphasized enough how important it is to ignore euphonious’s western conference takes. He doesn’t watch those games lol
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Jun 8, 2021 18:04
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I do watch west conference games . I watched at least 10 warriors games this year (they are always on tv) edit it was was hard to watch west coast before Covid but now I’m wfh so it’s fine euphronius fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 18:07
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my number one takeaway from following the warriors closely this year is : they won by defense lead by draymond green (who had a magnificent season and was the only reason the warriors were above .500) stats back this up anyway
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Jun 8, 2021 18:08
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euphronius posted:new win share stat: the number of games you play in that your team wins. in 2019 deangelo russel and andre drummond were better players than lebron james because the nets/pistons made the playoffs and lebron james didn't. for some reason their teams didn't compete for the title the next year
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Jun 8, 2021 18:11
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Yossarian-22 posted:in 2019 deangelo russel and andre drummond were better players than lebron james because the nets/pistons made the playoffs and lebron james didn't. for some reason their teams didn't compete for the title the next year I assume you are referring to 18-19 the lakers were 20-14 during the part of the year Lebron was healthy and he was trying doesn’t support your argument much . you should really get your nose out of your ideological stat books and try following the nba. the nba played by humans. you would not get confused so much by your grandparent espn stats
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Jun 8, 2021 18:20
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euphronius posted:I assume you are referring to 18-19 that's a 58% winning percentage which is still not even worthy of a top 10 team in the nba. bojan bogdanovic had as good of a year because the pacers were 48-34 in 2019, roughly the same winning percentage, and he didn't even have brandon ingram playing with him
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Jun 8, 2021 18:26
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34 games is a small sample and good teams usually pick up a lot of wins at the end of the year when other teams tank you’d know this if you watched games I guess / followed the league
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Jun 8, 2021 18:29
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imagine winning more games than lebron with tyreke evans and wesley matthews playing 20-30 minutes a game consistently and hell looks like he did it again this year with utah ergo bojan>lebron i don't make the rules
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Jun 8, 2021 18:29
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So, just to add some light statistical trolling to this, it looks like Curry's WS/48 was 16th best in the league this year, and that feels pretty accurate.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:29
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Lebron 18-19 is a unique case because that was his first year of coaching the team as well and you have to give him some time to figure out what plays work best for his players
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Jun 8, 2021 18:30
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Yossarian-22 posted:imagine winning more games than lebron with tyreke evans and wesley matthews playing 20-30 minutes a game consistently and hell looks like he did it again this year with utah no that is Gobert
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Jun 8, 2021 18:31
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Gobert clearly had a better year than Lebron in terms of value if you ignore that Lebron aslo coaches the team
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Jun 8, 2021 18:32
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euphronius posted:34 games is a small sample and good teams usually pick up a lot of wins at the end of the year when other teams tank you're actually wrong. lebron played 55 games and was 28-27 https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01/gamelog/2019 it's even worse than i thought. evan fournier/nikola vucevic had better years on the magic. tobias harris/lou williams absolutely destroyed lebron james leading the clippers to the playoffs post-cp3 pre-kawhi era that year
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Jun 8, 2021 18:32
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I’m not wrong my language was precise and clear
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Jun 8, 2021 18:34
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euphronius posted:no that is Gobert you ignore bojan's success leading the pacers to a way better record than the lakers in 2018-2019 you claimed lebron only played 34 games when he actually played 55
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Jun 8, 2021 18:34
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euphronius posted:
please be more careful at reading I take time to read your posts and respond in good faith can I at least expect the same ?
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Jun 8, 2021 18:36
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euphronius posted:He was a +4 on court this season (last season). Those numbers are bunk tho I dont use them. I only brought them up because other people did. Plus minus is fimrly a Steph Curry Brain Disease stat. you lied and got caught
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Jun 8, 2021 18:37
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since everything is about wins then lebron going 28-27 in 2019 means he was not even a top 16 player in terms of winning percentage and the pelicans with davis weren't even better than 23rd. inexplicable that two players who are arguably not even top 20 won the championship the next year obviously they were both carried by rajon rondo
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Jun 8, 2021 18:38
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euphronius posted:please be more careful at reading 20-14 is still only as good as bojan bogdonavic's year on the pacers because they won 58% of their games
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Jun 8, 2021 18:39
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this is the kind of ad hominem attacks I’d expect from other forums I know watching espn all day makes your guys Brains bad and posting on face book with other grandparents makes you think attacking character is a good play but we are trying to have an adult conversation here . can you stick to taking about basketball please euphronius fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Jun 8, 2021 |
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Jun 8, 2021 18:39
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Yossarian-22 posted:20-14 is still only as good as bojan bogdonavic's year on the pacers because they won 58% of their games I’ve already answered this “critique” please move on
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Jun 8, 2021 18:39
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Azathoth posted:So, just to add some light statistical trolling to this, it looks like Curry's WS/48 was 16th best in the league this year, and that feels pretty accurate. i'm super sussed out by win share stats because they consistently overrate high field goal percentages like deandre jordan, who used to be listed as a top 10-15 player in the league consistently
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Jun 8, 2021 18:45
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euphronius posted:this is the kind of ad hominem attacks I’d expect from other forums here's an ad hom: you Don't Know Ball
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Jun 8, 2021 18:52
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I've been watching Dumb Motherfuckers shout Dumb loving Opinions into the Dumb loving Void on these dead forums for like 15 years now, yet Steph Curry is bad discourse might be what finally breaks me
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Jun 8, 2021 18:52
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Pork Chops Aplenty posted:I've been watching Dumb Motherfuckers shout Dumb loving Opinions into the Dumb loving Void on these dead forums for like 15 years now, yet Steph Curry is bad discourse might be what finally breaks me he’s not bad he’s just not anywhere close to mvp he’s perfect as 5th guy sniper when you have a Bunch of good players.
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Jun 8, 2021 18:57
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Pork Chops Aplenty posted:I've been watching Dumb Motherfuckers shout Dumb loving Opinions into the Dumb loving Void on these dead forums for like 15 years now, yet Steph Curry is bad discourse might be what finally breaks me just take it for the comical poo poo that it is and enjoy the playoffs
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Jun 8, 2021 18:57
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this thread turned me into a reactionary
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Jun 8, 2021 19:00
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Yossarian-22 posted:i'm super sussed out by win share stats because they consistently overrate high field goal percentages like deandre jordan, who used to be listed as a top 10-15 player in the league consistently It isn't without it's faults, just like any single statistic trying to compare players with disparate playing styles and games. And you're correct that that style is the part where I would point towards it overvaluing players, along with assists being slightly overvalued as well, and certain kinds of defense being slightly undervalued because it's hard to statify if it doesn't frequently result in blocks or steals. My read is that players like DeAndre end up getting a decent number of, for lack of a better term "uncontested" rebounds each game just because they're the person the team designates to grab them while the better offensive players run down court and get set up. That said, I'm not convinced that a player like DeAndre who did seem really good at getting contested rebounds isn't criminally undervalued, even if he's not a top 20 player. Same for PGs and assists though too. There's a decent number of assists where the player didn't actually do anything to help the shooter, but by virtue of the stat, they get a little bump to their value because of it. That all said, I've found WS/48 to be pretty decent overall, so long as limitations of any single stat are kept in mind. I do feel like Curry, in that example was playing MVP ball during their first title run, which is reflect in the stat, and is still a top 20 player, which is also reflected, but absolutely not an MVP anymore, which is again, also reflected.
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Jun 8, 2021 19:01
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Pork Chops Aplenty posted:this thread turned me into a reactionary admitting that thinking Steph Curry is good is a fascist sentiment is a good first step to healing
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Jun 8, 2021 19:01
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